View Full Version : XD and CZs
I'm looking at the various CZ pistols (except the CZ-100...already know that one sucks) and the Springfield XD. What do you pros and serious shooters think about them? What about avialability of critical accessories (night sights and holsters). I'm looking for my first CCW pieces and these are the two I've pretty much narrowed down to.
Any MIM Parts? Replacement of said MIM parts?
(Oh, and yes, I know about the S&W M&P series...not quite to my taste, but still an option...but I know they are pretty well regarded. And Glocks don't fit my hand)
dirksterg30
01-12-09, 16:00
I've got a CZ P-01. 9mm, 14+1 DA/SA with decocker, and some of the best ergonomics around. The frame is aluminum alloy, and it's a good weight in a quality holster & belt. Mine has around 2,000 rounds through it with no failures except for the slide not locking back (*&%# Promag magazines). CZ-75-based pistols have an unusual slide configuration - the slide rides inside the frame. Supposedly this contributes to accuracy, but I don't shot well enough to know for sure. It could make working the slide a little more difficult depending on your hand size, but I have no issues with it.
I don't believe there are any MIM parts in the CZ, and the P-01 has a Nato Stock Number, and has been through some pretty extensive testing: http://www.TheFiringLine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169843
The CZ line does not have to aftermarket support in the US that SIG or Glock do, but I have found eveything I needed for my P-01 - Trijicon, Meprolight & XS Sights night sights are available, and holsters are pretty easy to find online.
If you prefer .40 S&W, there is the comparable P-06; if you prefer no light rail, there is the PCR. There is also a manual safety version, the CZ-75 Compact, but that has a steel frame.
There are 2 issues with the CZ line that I can think of:
1. The DA trigger pull can be pretty heavy out of the box. Mine has lightened/smoothed up nicely, but I still find I prefer a DAO gun.
2. Some CZs come from the factory undersprung; mine did not, but others have reported extraction issues due to a weak extractor spring.
Here's my P-01 atop my RRA AR:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/dirksterg30/general%20guns/P-01onRRAAR-15.jpg
I hope this helps; let me know if you have any further questions.
I've not owned the newer CZ carry pistols (the P01/P06, PCR, RAMI, etc.). But as previous poster says, for carry you'd want to focus on the P01/P06 models for carry. Stay away from the RAMI and, as you know, the 100. The P01/P06 models as he indicated, have gone through some of the most rigorous testing ever done on a service pistol, and held up really well.
You may also be interested in this P-01 review (http://madogre.com/Interviews/CZP01%20Article.pdf) by George Hill.
I have owned many of the full-size CZ all-metal pistols, and in general, would strongly vouch for CZ's in the area of accuracy, reliability, and ergonomics. I think that just as with 1911's, the metal triggers on the CZ are worth getting a trigger job done. With a little work, they are the sweetest triggers I've experienced on a non-1911 carry pistol. What I'd suggest if you get a CZ is, consider buying it from Ghostholster.com, and then have their shop (run by Angus Hobdell, who does custom work for CZ and shoots on their competition team) do the trigger for you right there before they ship it to you. It'll save you having to ship a new CZ off to someone for trigger work.
Actually, I got to handle a CZ P-01 today. Seemed like a pretty nice pistol. I have shot a CZ-85 before, and I liked it a lot. About the only thing I didn't like is that the magazines seemed extremely hard to load (stiff springs, I guess). But I do have a LULA for pistol mags that should alleviate that problem.
dirksterg30
01-12-09, 16:45
Stay away from the RAMI .
I know there were feeding issues with the .40 Rami's (I think they have been resolved), but is there anything wrong with the 9mm versions?
Well like I said I haven't owned one, I've always been a member of CZ's own forums. And I have read report after report about FTF's and FTE's with the RAMI's, both 9mm and .40. Just went over there now to confirm my earlier impression, and in the first two pages of threads, there is thread after thread where people makes posts mentioning FTF's on 9mm RAMI's. I suspect when you get that many repeat references to an issue in their own forum, it's a recurring thing. In any case, I know I would personally not buy ANY RAMI model due to the reliability issues that I keep hearing about. But the larger CZ's, the P01/06, the 75 family, and the new SP-01 series, they are tough as tanks and more reliable than any pistol I've owned (in the sense of less total parts breakages or stoppages).
Well, I just found a long thread on this site on the Springfield XD. I won't be buying one for sure...
And I will be sure to dodge the CZ RAMI, too.
Jack_Stroker
01-12-09, 21:29
Well, I just found a long thread on this site on the Springfield XD. I won't be buying one for sure...
And I will be sure to dodge the CZ RAMI, too.
I've got several Springfield XD's. They are great guns, why wouldn't you buy one? I can't understand anyone buying a CZ over an XD. The XD is vastly superior aside from ergonomics which are subjective.
Every gun "has issues" at one time or another. My XD's have been as reliable as my Glocks and Sigs.
You can buy factory XD parts here http://www.pistolgear.com/products.php?id=46
I don't think that the XD is the gun for me after evaluating what you and others say.
I would LOVE a 1911, but I don't think I would be happy with a substandard gun for the price I could afford. I'll save up for the 1911 for quality later, when I can afford it.
I'm a college student. bigger concerns take precedence over semi-custom and custom 1911s. I need something that is affordable to buy and feed. Something that is reliable. Something that I won't cry over as much in case I'm involved in a self-defense shooting and my carry piece gets taken for evidence and I never see it again.
I would like a chance to evaluate SIG pistols, but none are stocked in the shops in this area.
dangermoney
01-13-09, 06:46
The guns go back to Springfield alright. From what I've heard the turn around is very quick on them should you need to send them in. The lack of spare parts is definitely a reasonable concern. However, as cheap as the guns are, if you trust your life to them, I'd advise getting two of them. I dropped one of my XD-45's onto concrete by accident from about 4 feet up. It was loaded and had a mag in it. It landed on the back of the slide and it barely scratched the gun. It is hard to tell where it hit. The gun has worked as flawless as the day it was new since then. I've fired a couple thousand rounds through my XD tactical and about 1,000 through my XD-45 Service model which is the one I dropped. No problems with either of them. The platform isn't perfect, but I have my doubts about durability issues. Especially given the torture test that was done on that XD-9. They seem every bit as durable as Glocks, though I believe that the Glock does have a superior slide finish.
I have and sometimes still do carry my Sprinfield XD's on me. One thing i will say, is that they don't shoot as well as even a lower end 1911. At least not for me. You can get good with one, and once you do the accuracy issue clears up, but I have found them to have a bit of a learning curve. Whenever I shoot 1911's alot I find that it takes me a few rounds to get "good" again with the XD. The SIG-Sauer like bore-axis may be responsible for this. Like any weapon, training with it is essential just like it is for any other platform. But if you go back and fourth between different platforms, the XD may not be the gun for you. The ergonomics are ok, but again this is always subjective. Just as they are with Glocks or a Beretta. I quite dislike many SIG-Sauers due to their ergonomics.
I'm a 1911 guy primarily. so I have trouble switching to polymer framed guns in general. So take what I have to say with a grain of salt.
I own a P-01 and a SIG P229 and find the ergonomics very similar although the P-01 fits my hands a "little" better. Also, it is a little lighter. Personally, I would take the P-01 over the XD any day. The CZ-75 line of pistols has an exceptional reputation.
dangermoney
01-13-09, 06:52
I don't think that the XD is the gun for me after evaluating what you and others say.
I would LOVE a 1911, but I don't think I would be happy with a substandard gun for the price I could afford. I'll save up for the 1911 for quality later, when I can afford it.
I'm a college student. bigger concerns take precedence over semi-custom and custom 1911s. I need something that is affordable to buy and feed. Something that is reliable. Something that I won't cry over as much in case I'm involved in a self-defense shooting and my carry piece gets taken for evidence and I never see it again.
I would like a chance to evaluate SIG pistols, but none are stocked in the shops in this area.
Have you considered the Glock 19?
Business_Casual
01-13-09, 07:04
So take what I have to say with a grain of salt.
There is no danger of this not happening.
M_P
Pistols are often like shoes - you can determine some of the strengths and weaknesses by talking to others but you really need to try them on. Seee if you can find some range rentals somewhere - even if it's a long drive - it would help prevent making a $500+ mistake. I listened to a whole bunch of input prior to buying my first polymer semi (Glock) I liked it very much, having nothing else to base it on, I even bought a second Glock. Now that I've owned multiple models from multiple makers, I have found that the Glock was really not the best choice for me - nothing against the gun...just that others felt better and shot better for me. Good luck!
Jack_Stroker
01-13-09, 15:15
I own a P-01 and a SIG P229 and find the ergonomics very similar although the P-01 fits my hands a "little" better. Also, it is a little lighter. Personally, I would take the P-01 over the XD any day. The CZ-75 line of pistols has an exceptional reputation.
I recently handled a P226 and I've fired the P220. I liked the P220 real well and I liked the way the P226 felt for the most part, though it would take some getting used to. I handled another model SIG which I couldn't stand. The model escapes me at the moment. It was quite different than the other models I'm used to seeing.
Have you considered the Glock 19?
The only thing I don't like about Glocks is the feel. I also need to shoot one more before I would be ready to buy one.
But I didn't need to bother asking about Glocks...I already knew about their high quality. I wanted the pro's opinions on the CZ pistols, because while I hear "they are great" on other boards, I also hear equally as often that Olympic Arms and DPMS are "great" on the same boards. :rolleyes:
I also wanted to know more about the XD series, but I doubt that I will be purchasing one...
I'm getting rid of my XD .45 once my CZ 97B gets in. I prefer the feel of the full sized all steel pistols and I really like the CZ 75B series (CZ 75B SS, CZ 75 SP-01 (9mm & 40S&W)) for a variety of reasons, including "pointability" and ergonomics.
My XD .45 has had no issues and I have no complaints about the XD or the Glocks or the S&W or the etc. I just prefer the feel of the heavier guns and the balance. I know it's just a case of perception and personal choice, I am not making any sweeping value judgment.
FWIW, I'm switching over to CZ's. Traditionally I'm a 1911 shooter and love the way they handle, but became frustrated with the maintainable and tuning requirements of the platform-not to mention the good entry level cost going over $1K. So I switched to M&P's and had good performance out of them, but a 1911 they are not. I must be weird, but I found the XD ergonomics fit me better than the M&P. However I sold an XD years ago when Springfield stopped selling parts to civillians and made you ship the the gun to them for any repairs. If I need a sear for a CZ I can simply call CZ-USA and get it mailed to me no questions asked. Or I an order parts from Angus at CZ Custom. The XD fit me well but reliability issues (cracked locking blocks, extractors, etc.) and their parts policy lost me as a customer.
Anyways I recently started switching over to CZ's. They handle like a 1911 and I've found them to be very accurate. They can be carried cocked and locked and the trigger has potential to rival even a 1911. CZ Custom sells a competition hammer that's a drop-in part, minus modification to the sear safety leg, and makes a huge difference in the trigger pull without the need for a gunsmith. And if you remove the firing pin block you can make reset pretty short. They can also be purchased or converted to SAO. I'd recommend avoiding the decocker guns as there aren't as many options for trigger improvement and gunsmiths generally charge more to work on them if they do at all.
Cons:
The slide sits really low in the frame unlike most semi autos which reduces the purchase you have on the slide when racking it.
CZ75's are for the most part all steel and heavy which may be a con to some.
Some people have difficulty reaching the trigger when fully decocked or at half cock,but this isn't an issue for me.
Stock there is creep and quite a bit of hammer camming from a lot of positive engagement, but a competition hammer fixes this problem.
Stock the DA pull is heavy and gritty. This can be remedied by using a lighter mainspring and a lot of dry firing.
Sight selection is limited compared to other platforms.
Parts are not as plentiful as a 1911 or Glock.
The only thing I don't like about Glocks is the feel. I also need to shoot one more before I would be ready to buy one.
But I didn't need to bother asking about Glocks...I already knew about their high quality. I wanted the pro's opinions on the CZ pistols, because while I hear "they are great" on other boards, I also hear equally as often that Olympic Arms and DPMS are "great" on the same boards. :rolleyes:
I also wanted to know more about the XD series, but I doubt that I will be purchasing one...
Check out this thread if you want the opinions of M4C:
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7945&highlight=cz75
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