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If you had to pick one what would you rather have?
1. New stronger AWB.
2. Move the 'Assault Weapons' under NFA.
My point here is that there is going to be something coming down the pike sooner or later, and while I don't care for gun control, NFA certainly seems to be on target in keeping the 'scary guns' from criminals. The use of NFA arms in crime is exceedingly rare, even prior to 1986. Telling everyone to go pound salt, and when in doubt see the 2nd amendment, won't fly forever. Maybe we should seriously consider #2. We are all already on the grid so to speak, so worrying about being on some list is moot. I also think that with an aggressive writing campaign we could get the law enforcement groups that currently support the AWB, to support putting them under NFA. I know, I know....Leave our guns alone!! I want mine left alone too, but we might want to consider this.
SpartanArms
01-14-09, 23:47
Why would I want to simply assume this is inevitable and help socialists to restrict/revoke my God-given and Constitutionally protected liberties. Socialist pols already have enough help amongst the media, celebutards, and all of the uneducated oxygen thieves out there in society; why the hell help them any?:confused: While I want to preserve all of the rights I have, I believe the .gov has enough "qualifiers" on my exercise of those rights already. I don't plan on helping them add anymore.
PS. This is not directed as a personal attack on the poster, I just disagree with the general idea.:)
AirmanAtwood
01-15-09, 00:06
Its saddening to see so many posts about boohoo AWB. Stop making posts as if its already set in stone that its going to happen. Voice your opinions to those in charge of your state and let it be known that we wont stand to have our 2nd amendment right taken away from us. It was a right given to us by our forefathers to protect us from a over powerful government. By letting the gov restrict that right we're letting them take over more and more, and then how will we be different than communist countries? Fight for your rights or you dont deserve them
Interesting.
I am afraid that something is coming as well; those that say that Obama and the dems (read also gun grabbers) have more important things to do or are afraid of losing votes from gun control, I am afraid very much underestimate the dems and what they will do.
I suppose given the one or the other nature of your question, I would support moving them under the NFA, BUT we would need to very assertively seek to have states NOT be able to restrict them more than the feds.
But I much prefer the gun-grabbers just crawl back into their holes and STFU.
No personal offense taken. I'm trying to get some perspective.
My point of view is that if we take action it put us in the drivers seat and able to dictate terms. Proactive rather than reactive. It pisses me off every time I hear about another shooting. Thoughts & condolences to the victims, but how dare those jerks jeoapardize my 2A rights.
i'm not willing to compromise. they will never give it up- give an inch, they'll take a mile. that's what's been happening for almost 100 years.
the NRA needs to quit lobbying and try a new strategy- threats. i'll join as soon as they realize taking sentators to dinner isn't working.
...how is it proactive to talk of giving up something you have, in order to get something you don't want in the first place?
http://emoticons4u.com/smoking/rauch06.gif
every post someone says obama has enough on his plate ?
sure he does but he will just dictate someone to do the other deeds for him !!!!! that do not have a lot going on :) and leave him clean
he has plenty of sacrificial wacks that are willing to jump into the pit for him !!!!!
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-16-09, 01:26
We can't predict what they are going to do because as gun owners we actually might come up with something rational. The gun grabbers always seem to do odd stuff that never would actually solve things like mass shootings or drug-related gun crimes.
If you had to pick one what would you rather have?
1. New stronger AWB.
2. Move the 'Assault Weapons' under NFA.
These choices are like, which would you rather have, Cancer or AIDS.
Just like the choices of fight and lose, or just don't fight at all?
Why so negative?
Where are the healthy choices?
We don't know there will be an AWB "sooner or later"?
If there is, the majority of gun owners will just accept it
without a wimper. Just like in '94.
Sometimes gun owners are their own worst enemy. we consistantly
allow the Anti-Gunners to set the agenda and the standards.
Why don't we take charge and set the agenda.
We use the terms and language that the Liberals have given us, like
Hi-Cap Mags, Assault Rifles and other anti-gun nonsense.
It's like we've already given up?
This is the way we lost stuff in Europe, expecting that giving them a pinky when they want the entire arm can somehow play out in the shooters' advantage. It never, ever does. It just accelerates their effort and lessens the pro-gun resolve.
As much as people complain about the NRA they've got about a 1000x more spine than any European gun group, and that's what saves you. Not compromising, or being 'tactical' or 'tit for tat'. That never, ever plays out well.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-16-09, 14:49
This is the way we lost stuff in Europe, expecting that giving them a pinky when they want the entire arm ...
I say we give them The Finger.
If you had to pick one what would you rather have?
1. New stronger AWB.
2. Move the 'Assault Weapons' under NFA.
My point here is that there is going to be something coming down the pike sooner or later, and while I don't care for gun control, NFA certainly seems to be on target in keeping the 'scary guns' from criminals. The use of NFA arms in crime is exceedingly rare, even prior to 1986. Telling everyone to go pound salt, and when in doubt see the 2nd amendment, won't fly forever. Maybe we should seriously consider #2. We are all already on the grid so to speak, so worrying about being on some list is moot. I also think that with an aggressive writing campaign we could get the law enforcement groups that currently support the AWB, to support putting them under NFA. I know, I know....Leave our guns alone!! I want mine left alone too, but we might want to consider this.
What the hell is with you!? Between the thread you started on your SAFE idea and this one, I have to wonder. If you truly are a advocate for the 2nd amendment, why do you have such a fatalistic attitude? This is your second thread (that I know of) where you are screaming of the "inevitable" and want to help those who would restrict our rights. All of the unscued, legitimate facts show that legislation restricting weapons DOES NOT WORK. I assume that you know that yet you still want to help the other side. Now maybe it is inevitable, and maybe it is not but if you start down the path you seem to be headed down, well the phrase that comes to mind is give an inch and they will take a mile. Whether that mile is taken or not your attitude will only fuel the other side further and do nothing to help our position. Maybe it is just the Marine in me but, win lose or draw, you fight to the end. By the way your ideas so far are not tactical withdraws, they are "I will give you this, please don't hurt me" pleas. These ideas of yours are getting worse.
No personal offense taken. I'm trying to get some perspective.
My point of view is that if we take action it put us in the drivers seat and able to dictate terms.
The only way this puts us in the driver seat is if we are letting them give us directions while behind the wheel, and all we are doing for control is to make sure we don't speed to get there. The problem is that the other side will also have a gas pedal.
Proactive rather than reactive. It pisses me off every time I hear about another shooting. Thoughts & condolences to the victims, but how dare those jerks jeopardize my 2A rights.
Proactive, are you kidding, how foolish are you? Proactive is recognizing that there is a organized effort out there to get rid of our guns. Recognizing that some are doing it out of a misinformed well meaning intent, and others are doing it for control. The after knowing that, educating yourself on the facts and then going out there being a responsible representative of the truth and inform others on it, and always being true too, and NEVER giving up on what you believe in, lest you become part of the problem.
These choices are like, which would you rather have, Cancer or AIDS.
Just like the choices of fight and lose, or just don't fight at all?
Why so negative?
Sometimes gun owners are their own worst enemy. we consistantly
allow the Anti-Gunners to set the agenda and the standards.
Why don't we take charge and set the agenda.
We use the terms and language that the Liberals have given us, like
Hi-Cap Mags, Assault Rifles and other anti-gun nonsense.
It's like we've already given up?
Sad but true
If you had to pick one what would you rather have?
1. New stronger AWB.
2. Move the 'Assault Weapons' under NFA.
this is like being in prison and having bubba your 6'6" 350lb bunk mate say how do you want it with a big smile on his face :)
I would say I dont want it at all and I am going to go down fighting and I hope you never have to sleep cause when you fall asleep it will be your last time !!!!!!!!
are you saying you would say well your pick bubba I am hear to make you happy :)
sorry HwyKnight just having fun but I agree with others why give them anything
The owner crowd seems to think along these lines:
-We've got our guns, we don't give a shit about your violence problem, sucks to be you, if you have any questions see 2A!
Weather or not you feel that way, it is the perception that many non-owners have of us. This is a bad thing. It makes it seem like we don't care.
Who better than us to come up with ideas that respect our 2A rights, while helping to address the other problems. My SAFE idea specifically targeted criminals, and had nothing to do with 2A rights, but you guys didn't like that either.
It doesn't have to be GC; How about an owners charity to help gun victims? Where's the Million Gun March? Why aren't we louder?
How about a Gun Rights/Gun Control summit with all sides, and LEO's represented to come up with something simple, and streamlined, to help smooth out the wrinkles in the various state laws? Making it easier for owners who travel with their guns.
It seems to me that we should be the tip of the spear, and on the offensive. This would prevent others from dictating terms. It puts us in position to dictate terms that we can deal with. However, it seems to me that most of you would rather sit here with your head in the sand, and hope nothing happens. Fat chance! We've got guys out there dressing up like Santa and killing their family; In the state with the most gun control!! How can this be!?!
We need to open up channels of communication; that girl in the 30 day video is a good example of the kinds of things that need to happen. Anybody here offered to meet with your local GC group to share perspective? Anybody offer to take GC groups to a range? I haven't had the chance to yet to do this myself but I plan to look into it.
Guys: We need some good PR!
We need to be louder!
We need to get the GC crowd out of the drivers seat!
We need to be willing to step-up!
Abraxas, You are a Marine right? Last time I checked Marines aren't the type to sit around and wait till they are getting their ass kicked, and then start fighting. (My son is going to try for the Navy Academy, and wants to be a Marine Officer)
Failure2Stop
01-20-09, 16:02
How about we make a amendment to the constitution that guarantees that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed?
Maybe we could get the supreme court to make some statement to the fact that it is an individual right as well to avoid "State" issues?
Oh wait. . .
How about we make a amendment to the constitution that guarantees that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed?
I'd vote for it! ;)
RE: The original post....
Honestly, there's no compromising with "those people". They want to remove guns from the hands of individuals, plain and simple. If you give them one thing, they'll be back for something else. It's like feeding a stray dog to get rid of it -- it'll just be back tomorrow. Sometimes you just have to shoot it in the head with a suppressed .22 and bury the body out back...
Besides, they piss me off to no end with the complete lack of understanding of the concept of "compromise". Compromise implies that we, too, would GAIN something in the deal. Registering our weapons under the NFA to keep them vs. banning them outright, is not a compromise. Registering our weapons under the NFA but removing the $200 fee and repealing the '86 machine gun ban....that would be a compromise (not a good one, though, as I don't want to register anything with anybody).
Here's a compromise -- We can keep assault weapons of all kinds but let's ban over-unders and bolt-action scoped rifles. See if that gets some grass roots a-growin'.
Better yet, don't take my guns, and I won't shoot you. See, win-win for both sides. Beyond that I'm not much interested in sacrificing my rights to appease some c*cksucker who's to damn scared of reality to live in a world where people are responsible for themselves...
For all the Obama apologist gun owners who want change but hope their weapons will be left alone, here you go. ESAD. Straight from the horse's ass.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/urban_policy/
Address Gun Violence in Cities: Obama and Biden would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent.
Well maybe they don't mean it, I mean its only on the ****ing whitehouse website. Maybe they have other things to do? Calm down guys, Obama's pal Ray Shockey is going to take us all duck hunting, as soon as he gets his permit for his single shot shotgun, and if we can come up with good justification for needing ammunition.
PRGGodfather
01-20-09, 20:56
Yeah, they will try as soon as they have the time to do it. I pray there will be enough on their plate with the economy and the WOT, and we need to encourage them to conserve their energy with those issues before trying this stupidity.
There really is no room for apologists, especially when we are dealing with liars.
One cannot reason with unreasonable people. Even as a cop, I do not care about their claims -- since their argument is simply baseless and illogical. Period.
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