View Full Version : Colt's railed 1911.
olds442tyguy
01-15-09, 11:32
Looks like Colt has stepped up to the 1990's!
http://www.gunshowreview.com/SHOT_2009/Media_Day/images/00-01-14-09-0067.jpg
Surely COLT didn't put that stupid "COLT RAIL GUN" on the slide.
That has to be a bad taste custom. (or photoshop)
olds442tyguy
01-15-09, 11:43
Surely COLT didn't put that stupid "COLT RAIL GUN" on the slide.
That has to be a bad taste custom. (or photoshop)
Nope. They're showing it at SHOT and letting people shoot it right now.
I could do with out the "rail gun" too.
Wow. It's an otherwise nice looking pistol.
Business_Casual
01-15-09, 11:44
Surely COLT didn't put that stupid "COLT RAIL GUN" on the slide.
That has to be a bad taste custom. (or photoshop)
After the 1991A1 roll mark, the CRG mark wouldn't surprise me a bit.
I sometimes wonder if Colt's mission statement includes ideas like "follow the pack at a safe distance" and "insure intellectual capital is squandered and/or given at no cost to competitors."
M_P
packinheavy
01-15-09, 11:45
I hope the RAIL GUN thing is just for the shot show and isn't on the production guns.
olds442tyguy
01-15-09, 11:51
The other side.
http://www.gunshowreview.com/SHOT_2009/Media_Day/images/00-01-14-09-0065.jpg
I could do without the "Rail Gun" thing but other than that it looks great!
I wonder if Colt has ever heard of a real rail gun.
Army Chief
01-15-09, 12:07
Rollmark drama in general is something I tend to avoid, as less is definitely more; that said, spelling "COLT RAIL GUN" out like that does seem a bit out of place. Even marking this model "CRG" would be a vast improvement.
AC
The Dumb Gun Collector
01-15-09, 12:08
That is nice! I hope the rail gun thing is just for the show. I see it also has a proper beavertail. I guess there goes another $1000.:D
RAM Engineer
01-15-09, 12:17
hmmm...colt....Colt...
Aren't they the folks who make the 6920? They're making 1911s now? Neat!
:D
VooDoo6Actual
01-15-09, 12:19
Nice to see COLT is in "touch" with their customer base in addtion to being so responsive and accomodating to the customer base so expediantly, NOT !
My belief is that the Colt's Rail Gun is a spoof attempt on USGs' Rail Gun. I doubt that it's going to be the commercial name. Just speculation however.
"CRG" is an acronym for FBI's "Crisis Response Group" and Colt could not commercially use that w/o FBI's approval which I doubt would happen.
It is a step in the right direction evolutionarily speaking for the 1911 and Colt IMO.
Glad to see they responded so quickly. About three years QUICKLY as well !
I see it also has a proper beavertail. I guess there goes another $1000.:D
I noticed that too. That old drop in beavertail was horrible looking.
Surely COLT didn't put that stupid "COLT RAIL GUN" on the slide.
That has to be a bad taste custom. (or photoshop)
I'm dyin' over here... "Colt Rail Gun" :D
-B
tiger seven
01-15-09, 12:39
I see RAIL GUN on the side of a weapon and I'm thinking of something completely different! :D
I agree that it looks like crap on an otherwise nice pistol. Let's hope it goes away.
Derek
Sorry I had to :o
http://www.peachmountain.com/5star/images/AberdeenProvingGrounds/20060509_2099_NSengupta_AberdeenProvingGroundss.jpg
I see it also has a proper beavertail.
Wow! I think olds442guy got it right...Colt finally stepped up to the 1990s for their 1911s!
I like a high-cut front strap on a 1911, but I don't like Colt's version. I would rather they leave it "uncut", than use that uncomfortable and unattractive contour.
It appears that it has the typical Colt razor sharp edges. I suppose when they are paying union wages, they can't afford to make the edges any softer.
Oh - and I don't like front serrations, but I may be in the minority on that.
That rollmark just sucks!! I'll stick to my S&W tac rail 1911!
I like a high-cut front strap on a 1911, but I don't like Colt's version. I would rather they leave it "uncut", than use that uncomfortable and unattractive contour.
It appears that it has the typical Colt razor sharp edges. I suppose when they are paying union wages, they can't afford to make the edges any softer.
Oh - and I don't like front serrations, but I may be in the minority on that.
Yeah, I was noticing that too. Apparently they still haven't figured out how to dehorn a pistol.
-RD62
Sorry I had to :o
http://www.peachmountain.com/5star/images/AberdeenProvingGrounds/20060509_2099_NSengupta_AberdeenProvingGroundss.jpg
Technically, that's not a rail gun. This is the theory behind the rail gun which is what the navy is now working on.
* The muzzle velocity of projectiles propelled by gunpowder is generally limited to about 4,000 feet (about 1,219 meters) per second.
Is it possible to overcome these challenges?
One solution is the electromagnetic rail gun, or rail gun for short. Using a magnetic field powered by electricity, a rail gun can accelerate a projectile up to 52,493 feet (16,000 meters) per second.
And while current Navy guns have a maximum range of 12 miles, rail guns can hit a target 250 miles away in six minutes. :eek:
Many sources on the internet: just google "Rail Gun".
LonghunterCO
01-15-09, 19:36
250 miles away in six minutes? How much lead would you have to give that?;)
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-16-09, 01:08
Funny, I thought of the electro-magnetic one too
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/railgun-8.gif
QuickStrike
01-16-09, 08:59
If they have railed versions of their 70's series, then I'd be more interested.
The Dumb Gun Collector
01-16-09, 10:27
LOL, sombody out there wants a railed 1918.
The markings on the side dont bother me as bad as the flat main spring housing and the memory (Bump) on the beaver tail.
I have found with my own 1911 that I shoot better with the old arched mainspring housing, and after a couple of hundred rounds that grip safety eats into my hand.... but of course those can both be switched out with the appropriate Ed Brown parts. :D
This is just like '90's cars being labeled with EFI or ABS on the exterior as a trim. Or the '80's Chevy truck I once saw with "cruise control" proudly emblazoned on the fenders. Nowadays it's labels like hybrid or E85. Don't manufacturer's realize how cheesy that will look in a couple of years?
/rant off
On the bright side it is nice to see a real beavertail on a Colt for a change.
Another version of a rail gun.
liquid cooled Benchrest
https://www.m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=53&pictureid=260
Handled it briefly today. Some of the edges were clearly designed to allow the owner a backup in case his shaving razor were to go missing ...
mrosamilia
01-17-09, 07:08
I placed an order for one with my dealer. He said that he had heard of the gun and would get it for me asap. Call me a sucker but I like Colts:D
mrosamilia,
Please post back with your impressions after you get it.
Pictures would be interesting, too.
Thanks.
mrosamilia
01-17-09, 11:54
You got it as soon as it comes in. I have no idea on time frame.
You got it as soon as it comes in. I have no idea on time frame.
Cindy (I think was her name) at the SHOT Show said they will be shipping in a couple of months. This pleasant surprise means there is in fact a God, as my prayers have been answered. The only down side to this is obviously I am now facing an eternity of burning in hell for being an asshole, but such is life. :D
I have wanted a railed 1911 for years, and I personally only buy Colt 1911s. Couple this introduction with the new Glock 20SF and I was a very happy camper this year at SHOT.
Handled it briefly today. Some of the edges were clearly designed to allow the owner a backup in case his shaving razor were to go missing ...
I noticed that too.
Most of the Colt 1911s find some way to disappoint me.
Also, that drop-in beavertail is still on many of their guns.
I was not at ALL impressed with the Colt "custom shop" section of their display. Gritty, half assed, rough texture, bad concept, and horrendous QC abound. They even brought out a Delta Elite with the paint for the front sight dot running all over the front sight post.
SHOT is where you come to put your best foot forward. If these guns were their best foot, I'd hate to see what the back foot looks like. And if they were examples of what we can expect from production guns, I'll pass. Bigtime. In terms of 1911s, Colt isn't doing anything I can't get better for less somewhere else. Unless someone wants to make up a chart to show me how I'm wrong, there was nothing there that remotely interested me. :p
I was not at ALL impressed with the Colt "custom shop" section of their display. Gritty, half assed, rough texture, bad concept, and horrendous QC abound. They even brought out a Delta Elite with the paint for the front sight dot running all over the front sight post.
SHOT is where you come to put your best foot forward. If these guns were their best foot, I'd hate to see what the back foot looks like. And if they were examples of what we can expect from production guns, I'll pass. Bigtime. In terms of 1911s, Colt isn't doing anything I can't get better for less somewhere else. Unless someone wants to make up a chart to show me how I'm wrong, there was nothing there that remotely interested me. :p
Which CS pistols did you see? If you did a chart on their production pistol you might be surprised when it come to materials used. The rail and DE I think will be standard models in the 800-900 price point. I think "better for less", is a stretch when comparing apples to apples. Did they use a cast frame on the "rail" gun? It looked like it in the pics I saw.
As far as the other things you saw I would not be surprised Colt it is still run as if they were in the 70's in many regards(they just got CNC machines in use very recently). SHOT is not Colt's strong suit.
I agree Colt really needs to turn the quality up in some regards but I still believe they are a value in the 1911 production segment. Keep in mind last year they were releasing a "new" DE and now it looks like a "retro" DE. Only Colt knows.........
Any specs available on this gun? Firing pin safety or not?
Any specs available on this gun? Firing pin safety or not?
I believe that only the 01918 and Series 70 are void of that stupid feature.
Per Hilton Yam, it's a series 80 gun and they are planning on delivering in Q1 09 with a retail price of $1050.
I do wonder where the frame is sourced from. If it's a series 80 gun, I don't think it's Caspian.
Per Hilton Yam, it's a series 80 gun and they are planning on delivering in Q1 09 with a retail price of $1050.
I do wonder where the frame is sourced from. If it's a series 80 gun, I don't think it's Caspian.
I wouldn't hold your breath. The DE was supposed to be released 2nd Q of 08 and you never heard a peep out of Colt and now it is being shown as a "retro" ???? As I said before only Colt knows.........
Per Hilton Yam, it's a series 80 gun and they are planning on delivering in Q1 09 with a retail price of $1050.
I do wonder where the frame is sourced from. If it's a series 80 gun, I don't think it's Caspian.
Colt doesn't "source" their frames from anyone, they make their own in house. I'm not sure where you got that idea from?
Yes they make their own frames, but who knows if they are making their own railed frame.
Colt doesn't "source" their frames from anyone, they make their own in house. I'm not sure where you got that idea from?
I appreciate your input and you are correct that in the past everything has been "in house". Almost every railed 1911 frame used today is outsourced. That includes Nighthawk, older Baers etc.....
I would not assume that that is the case with Colt until you speak with Colt. I will say I have never seen that rail frame before and I dont think it is Caspian, so it very well could be Colt's design and build. With Colt now using CNC who knows.........
Personally I would prefer a simple Dawson rail. That rail is the oddest one I have ever laid eyes on and I am not impressed.
Keep in mind I am a Colt guy but I also call it the way I see it.
I appreciate your input and you are correct that in the past everything has been "in house". Almost every railed 1911 frame used today is outsourced. That includes Nighthawk, older Baers etc.....
I would not assume that that is the case with Colt until you speak with Colt. I will say I have never seen that rail frame before and I dont think it is Caspian, so it very well could be Colt's design and build. With Colt now using CNC who knows.........
Personally I would prefer a simple Dawson rail. That rail is the oddest one I have ever laid eyes on and I am not impressed.
Keep in mind I am a Colt guy but I also call it the way I see it.
Eh, it's a Colt and it has a light rail. I am happy. :D
Steve_Morrison
01-19-09, 12:23
Collt makes their own receivers, slides and barrels in house.
One of the reasons the Colt rail frame has been long in coming, was the investment required for a special forging die and new tooling to produce the railed frame.
Collt makes their own receivers, slides and barrels in house.
One of the reasons the Colt rail frame has been long in coming, was the investment required for a special forging die and new tooling to produce the railed frame.
You would have thought with all that time they could have deigned one that wasnt so ugly. This would have been a good one to copy.;)
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/DSCN0808.jpg
By the way you do some beautiful work on 1911's.:D Best of luck to you in the future.
I am a Harrison man myself:cool:
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/DSC00238.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/DSC04900.jpg
Mr. Morrison - Thank You for this information.
d90king - Yes, the railed NHC/VT is a seriously nice pistol.
Mine has been flawless, but I only have 7500 rounds through it. :D
A Colt "Rail Gun", series 80 or not, would go nicely with my NH.
olds442tyguy
01-20-09, 20:50
Hardly any "manufacturer" out sources their frames. When I say manufacturer, I don't mean small companies that buy outsourced major parts and build a custom gun on them.
If Kimber, Smith and Wesson, Springfield, Para, Rock River (before they went to shit as a company), STI, Sig, etcetera can all make their own frames, so can Colt.
I was not at ALL impressed with the Colt "custom shop" section of their display. Gritty, half assed, rough texture, bad concept, and horrendous QC abound. They even brought out a Delta Elite with the paint for the front sight dot running all over the front sight post.
SHOT is where you come to put your best foot forward. If these guns were their best foot, I'd hate to see what the back foot looks like. And if they were examples of what we can expect from production guns, I'll pass. Bigtime. In terms of 1911s, Colt isn't doing anything I can't get better for less somewhere else. Unless someone wants to make up a chart to show me how I'm wrong, there was nothing there that remotely interested me. :p
The Colt custom shop does not do "custom" work like what people think as 1911 gunsmithing. All they do is custom configurations.
Colt is one of the few companies that makes 1911s with forged slides and frames rather than cast or milled bar stock.
Many people don't like their fit or sloppyness. You have to understand what you are buying. You are buying a 1911 that is made the GI way.
I don't like series 80 1911s and wish this rail gun was a series 70 as it is more for "hard" use.
Hardly any "manufacturer" out sources their frames. When I say manufacturer, I don't mean small companies that buy outsourced major parts and build a custom gun on them.
If Kimber, Smith and Wesson, Springfield, Para, Rock River (before they went to shit as a company), STI, Sig, etcetera can all make their own frames, so can Colt.
At risk of thread drift, let's take a look at this.
There's perhaps two US shops that produce 1911 forgings. Colt, and Smith.
Springfield buys forgings for their frames and slides from IMBEL in Brazil.
Prior to being bought out by Kimber, Jericho bought forgings from Smith and finished them for Kimber and Wilson.
Caspian produced (finished) forged 1911 frames for some time, but now produces only cast frames.
Incidentally, Caspian made the early GSR frames and slides.
Ruger makes castings for themselves, and other makers, like Caspian.
So, if brand x says they "make" their own receivers and slides, are they forging or casting them, or machining someone else's forging or casting?
Per the Jan/Feb Am Handgunner, STI produces NH's frames (non-railed) and slides. Where these forgins originate from is anyone's guess. See http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_179_30/ai_n15862431
I would bet that STI makes frames and slides for other 1911 brands, as well.
Of course, where is STI getting their forgings from?
IIRC, the following use Caspian for their railed frames,
NH
Wilson
RRA (?)
Baer (formerly)
Brown
Sig (formerly?)
That Colt has gone the extra mile to procure a forging die and tooling to make forgings for railed 1911s will allow them to produce the end product for a lower cost in the long run than buying frames from Caspian.
I'm looking forward to the Colt railed frames, even though I'd rather they be non-series 80.
olds442tyguy
01-21-09, 13:09
RRA made their own frames.
Kimber makes their own frames.
Springfield does use Imbel, but I consider the two one in the same, except Springfield starts with a blank Imbel forging for their railed frames.
Para and Sig also make their own frames now.
Not trying to get wrapped around the axle here, but it kinda depends on how you define "make".
Anyone with a CNC machine and the requisite know how can "make" something out of barstock, casting, or a forging.
If a company doesn't produce their own castings or forgings, they are sourcing (buying) them from someone else.
Springfield buys the forgings for their frames (and slide?) from IMBEL and machines them in house.
Unless they have their own forge, Kimber buys the forgings for their frames (and slide) from someone, and machines them in house.
Same for RRA, Baer, et. al.
Where do we know forgings originate from?
Colt has a forge facility.
Smith has a forge facility. See http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/other/SW_SS_Brochure.pdf
Imbel has a forge facility.
As to Castings, Ruger does a lot of work for other makers, including Caspian.
Does Para cast their own frames, or do they buy someone else's castings?
Have to add, I wish Colt had made their railed frame more like Springfield's revised 3/4 length railed frame (but I'll still buy one).
Very interested in finalized configuration(s) and pricing for the "CRG".
RRA made their own frames.
Kimber makes their own frames.
Springfield does use Imbel, but I consider the two one in the same, except Springfield starts with a blank Imbel forging for their railed frames.
Para and Sig also make their own frames now.
Just when I said I was gonna move on from 1911's. I guess one more won't hurt. Some 10-8 and Vickers parts and it'll be real nice.
As for the series 80, I used to give this a lot of thought. After i spoke to a few smiths, it would seem to be no real problem. I also think some of the benefits of the Colt out way the series 80.
Bob
Kentucky Cop
12-20-09, 23:07
In an attempt to breathe some life back into this thread, I was on TOS and noticed the new railed Colt for the first time. It looks appealing and several claimed that it would be fit for duty use with the parts they were using in it. Anyways, I was curious if anyone since January has shot one or had the opportunity to run it hard. Curious how it would stack up to others like the Smith TacRail (mentioned earlier on pg 1) or others. Just as a disclaimer, I like shooting the 1911's but don't know more than the average guy about them. The way I was raised was that a SA Pro and Nighthawks was the only thing I could purchase by the way of 1911's or I would here a bunch of *** from the men of the family. ;)
Ky cop
Kentucky Cop
07-24-10, 14:29
Anyone know if Colt released the blue rail models yet? I saw one for sale on the EE and it had a cerakote finish and golfball grips that looked good. It got me thinking.....
KC
No, only the stainless steel and the stainless steel with a cerakote finish are available.
I just picked up my SS Rail Gun today and it is perfect in every way. The machining is flawless, the trigger is perfect and the national match barrel was a pleasant surprise.
I can't wait to go shoot it tomorrow. :D
Kentucky Cop
07-24-10, 20:16
No, only the stainless steel and the stainless steel with a cerakote finish are available.
I just picked up my SS Rail Gun today and it is perfect in every way. The machining is flawless, the trigger is perfect and the national match barrel was a pleasant surprise.
I can't wait to go shoot it tomorrow. :D
Please let us know as you get a few rounds down the pipe. It would be nice to see a little range report on here.
Congrats, KC
variablebinary
07-24-10, 20:26
Rail gun :p
Electromagnetic rails accelerating aluminum pellets.
http://ravingpsycho.tripod.com/6-1eraser.jpg
And is that Colt gun available in a non-pimptastic color
Please let us know as you get a few rounds down the pipe. It would be nice to see a little range report on here.
Congrats, KC
I have my first 50 reloads of .45 ACP ready to roll. :D
Rail gun :p
Electromagnetic rails accelerating aluminum pellets.
http://ravingpsycho.tripod.com/6-1eraser.jpg
And is that Colt gun available in a non-pimptastic color
I'm thinking electromagnetic rails wouldn't have any effect on aluminum (non-ferrous) pellets...
Anyone know if Colt released the blue rail models yet? I saw one for sale on the EE and it had a cerakote finish and golfball grips that looked good. It got me thinking.....
I saw a black one (apparently new) for sale this weekend at the local gun show. $1095 I think. Didn't look closely at it to note if the finish was bluing or cerakote.
I'm thinking electromagnetic rails wouldn't have any effect on aluminum (non-ferrous) pellets...
That, and aluminum rounds wouldn't have enough density to be effective at a rail gun's velocities.
Kentucky Cop
09-24-10, 16:50
Does anyone have any further update on the Colt Rail 1911. They have been out now for some time and I was curious if anyone had anything to "cuss or discuss" about the weapon. (mileage)?
Also, is the Colt Rail and Colt XSE the same gun or different? TOS's keep mentioning them..:confused:
KC
Steve_Morrison
09-24-10, 21:09
I have several in my shop--they are nice pistols right from the factory with a decent feature set.
The rails are generally in spec and fit/function well with military accessories.
Build and parts quality are quite good compared to most of the 1911s on the market. Slide, frame, barrel and slide stop are machined from forgings and properly heat treated, what few parts are MIM (mag catch, disconnector, sear, occasionally the plunger tube) are decent in quality. The barrel has the Colt patented feedramp design and the frame is properly machined for reliable feeding with a variety of bullet types.
What else would you like to know?
Kentucky Cop
09-25-10, 20:20
I guess I am curious as to how the Colt rail would compare to the ever popular Springfield MC Operator or even the TRP? Again, I know its personal preference and all but would like to see everyone's thoughts.
They seem to be at least on the same playing field in my eyes but I always wondered why this gun hasn't became more popular. And again, I don't know a ton about the 1911 platform other than that my family has run Nighthawks for years.
KC
I saw a black one (apparently new) for sale this weekend at the local gun show. $1095 I think. Didn't look closely at it to note if the finish was bluing or cerakote.
I've never been able to find a black one in stock. :mad:
Steve_Morrison
09-27-10, 00:23
Colt is selling them faster than they can make them so I assume that means they are at least somewhat popular.
Lighter and more slender in the gripframe vs the TRP or MC Operator, both of which have more features. I would give Colt a slight nod for overall better small parts quality. Colt slides are more consistent in hardness. Springfield does a better job of fitting Novak style sights. colt has the Series 80 firing pin block, Sprinfield uses a titanium firing pin and ILS mainspring housing.
The rail gun is part of the XSE series but has a nicer beavertail than the other XSEs. Currently all Rail Guns are stainless, the black ones are just starting to be available and are factory applied Cerakote over stainless.
It looks like Travis Haley is running a CRG in the Magpul Dynamics handgun DVDs.
Funds permitting, I would like to add a CRG to keep my railed NHC/VT from getting lonely.
I've never been able to find a black one in stock. :mad:
I looked back, and the post you quoted from me was from the end of July. Strangely enough, at the Hampton gun show 18-19 September, I saw what was probably the same gun at the same dealer.
I put your number in my cell; if I run across it again, I'll call in case you're around and want to handle a local example!
Some I'm hearing this correctly, the black Colt rail gun is out and available at the same price as the stainless. Thanks for the info.
Some I'm hearing this correctly, the black Colt rail gun is out and available at the same price as the stainless. Thanks for the info.
I own the 'blackened' XSE and I think it was $80 more than the stainless. I paid $1,070. It was the first one I found in stock online. I'm not an expert on 1911's, but I've enjoyed it and am looking for a good IWB holster.
I picked it up at The Exchange in Brookings, SD.
It appears they have one in stock. (http://www.onlinegundeals.com/ItemDetails/704374811/COLT_RAIL_GUN_GOVT_MODEL_ENHANCED_SERIES_BLACKENED_STAINLESS_WITH_FACTORY_TAC_RAIL_NEW.htm)
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