Pat Rogers

[Iraqgunz]

Ok, first off let me say that my intent is not to stir up any shit. I am simply trying to get some info and figure something out. Recently I heard rumors that Pat Rogers had made some claims about his military service that were less than truthful. Then today I discover that he was being mentioned on another website SOCNET that he was long known amongst those there as being a fraud.

Additionally it would appear that he has been added to the POW Network Hall of Shame. So my question is what claims specifically did he make or imply during training, in articles, etc...? How did he manage to fool so many people?

If anyone has taken his classes do you feel like you were taken?

MODS- If you feeel this is inappropriate please delete at your convenience.

[markm]

My favorite guy!:rolleyes:

I'll tell you some stories about this guy when you get back home, Gunz! I did some checking around on him when I saw what a Jerk he was on this site.

[03humpalot]

I have no idea what you guys are talking about but Pat has been 100% GTG in my book.
Semper Fi,
Buck

[Jay Cunningham]

Heads up -

When this thread was first posted, it was briefly moved into the moderator forum. After review we have decided that it is fair game for discussion on a forum such as M4C. I will be watching closely to ensure that professionalism is maintained.

Please carry on.

[Derek_Connor]

This is the first I've heard of anything, and I have seen Pat openly post his MOS(s) multiple times for people who asked.

I highly encourage anyone who has any information, if they decide to post, to make sure they can back it up. Lots is at stake in such a subject like this...

[rubberneck]

The POW network has scanned copies of his service record. The POW network also has a very good track record when dealing with these issues and more experience reviewing those records than I do. They claim that Pat was a Tanker in Vietnam and never served with a Recon unit. I'll let someone else decide where the truth lies.

http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies408.htm

[8th]

The POW network has scanned copies of his service record. The POW network also has a very good track record when dealing with these issues and more experience reviewing those records than I do. They claim that Pat was a Tanker in Vietnam and never served with a Recon unit. I'll let someone else decide where the truth lies.

http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies408.htm

Did he ever claim to have been Force Recon, or did everyone assume he was because of his training of them? I am not a member on socnet so while I found the referenced thread I wasn't able to do a search to dig up any of the other discussions. If someone else is and can that would be of interest. He is on the list of people I would like to train with, and I for one would like to know what the story is. It seems to me to be more a result of personal animis on the part of a couple of people and a mountain out of an imaginary mole hill.

[markm]

For what it's worth I have no knowledge of the specific question that Gunz is asking. Nor do I have any knowledge of Rogers misrepresenting anything in any fashion.

I was just Stunned at his unprofessional conduct on this site. I didn't know him from Chazz Michael Michaels. So I did some asking around about him. I'm not going to go any further on a public forum.

[Littlelebowski]

I can interpret his DD214.

[SHIVAN]

I can interpret his DD214.

http://www.pownetwork.org/pownet.secure/rogers_patrcik_1.pdf

Check the pownetwork links...there are more military docs there...

[rubberneck]

I have no position what so ever on Pat Rogers, or claims he might or might not have made. I don't know the man, nor do I know his history. I supplied the link because someone questioned his bona fides.

[MTR7]

Gentelmen:
Let me start off with I doubt that Pat needs me to stand in as his spokesperson.
Also for the record I have trained four times with him and have even been lucky enough to be awarded the coveted moosecock patch. I claim no great knowledge nor do I have copies of his U.S.M.C file. I have heard Pat say that he was a tanker in Viet Nam, I have not heard him say that he was in Recon in Viet Nam. Are we over looking the possiblity that he was assigned to Recon after Viet Nam. Could he have been active with the U.S.M.C. after Viet Nam. Yeah he was a NYC cop, could have he also served the USMC in a reserve, reserve activated role. Could he have done his time in Recon durring this time.

Does this DD214 document mean that he was not involved with the U.S.M.C. after Viet Nam. Or does this paper work only pretain to the period of Service durring Viet Nam. Can this be answered seems like it may be key to this question that was posed. If it matters can his service be checked with the U.S.M.C. Force Recon assocation. Has someone gone this far? Will they verify membership/ cred's.

Regards
Matthew Renz

[Littlelebowski]

The title of Chief Scout is and was used in the Corps. I'd like to see a copy of his DD214.

[Spooky130]

Looking at his 214 I don't see any glaring differences than what he said at the two classes I've taken. He did mention jumping out of an airplane a lot. Jeff Gonzales of Trident Concepts was in attendance as well and seemed OK with Pat's credentials...

Since I'm active duty I did ask Pat how it was possible to have so much time in the Marines and so much time in the NYPD. He was in the reserves for a lot of time in the Marines which basically allowed him to accumulate time in both the Marines and NYPD. He did mention being activated several times and spending longer than "one weekend a month and two weeks a year" with the Marines.


Spooky

[NoBody]

Patrick A. Rogers

Owner, E.A.G Inc, a Department of Defense Trading Partner (TPIN available upon request) since 1992, Rogers provides Weapons and Tactics Training to DoD assets to include 1st Force Reconnaissance Company, I-MEF G7 Special Operations Training Group (SOTG) Detachment 1, MCSOCCOM, JSOC and other SOF; Special Missions, Special Operations Forced at Natick and MARCORSYSCOM providing New Equipment Team Training. Since 1993- today, Patrick is on staff as a Senior Rangemaster at Gunsite Academy where he conducts training in pistol, rifle, shotgun, carbine, tactics and team tactics for those DoD and non DoD members involved in CT, police and civilians authorized to attend training at this facility. He additionally is a Contributing Editor, SWAT Magazine and a Subject Matter Expert (SME) for evaluating US Department of State Anti Terrorism Assistance Program (ATAP), including Close Quarter Battle (CQB), Protective Operations, and Police Officer Survival.

Operating as a Contract Officer for an Other Government Agency (OGA) involved in Counter Terrorism and Intelligence. Rogers was responsible organizing and providing training for National Level Teams involved in Hostage Rescue, Close Quarter Battle, Protective Operations, and for others involved in Counter Terrorist (CT) Operations, Direct Action Operations, Operations in Denied Areas, Air Marshal Operations as well as other related tasks. He was additionally responsible R&D and T&E for equipment, and have extensive experience in training allied foreign assets.

Retired as Sergeant working for New York City Police Department from 1973 – 1993, Rogers served in Patrol, Anti Crime Unit, Street Narcotics Enforcement Unit and as an Investigator in Central Robbery Division, which investigated pattern armed robberies and provided stakeout details. Patrol Supervisor, Anti Crime Supervisor, Detective Sergeant- Office of Chief of Detectives, Hostage Recovery Team, Technical Assistance Response Unit and Kidnap Task Force. He received the New York Police Foundation Award for Excellence in 1989 and an additional 54 awards for bravery, including the Medal of Valor in 1987.

Retired as Chief Warrant Officer USMC/ USMCR Patrick Rogers served 1963-1997 where is duties included Tank Crewman, Section Leader, Acting Platoon Sergeant/ Plt Commander, Reconnaissance Section Leader, Infantryman, Scout/Sniper Team Member/ Section Leader, Chief Scout, Operations Chief, NBC NCO, NBC Officer, Intelligence Officer. Notable: Combat tour RVN, 1965-1966, Intelligence Officer, Foreign Material Acquisition and Exploitation Unit, 1985-1990. FMAEU was tasked by Defense Intelligence Agency to acquire items of interest from foreign military, conduct sophisticated analysis, and disseminate results to DoD and other qualified organizations. Rogers worked extensively with sister services, other DoD and non DoD agencies involved in Intelligence and Counter Terrorism, and friendly foreign military and intelligence agencies. Additionally he designed and implemented a course for Operations in denied areas and was responsible for all Weapons and Tactics Training. During Desert Shield/ Desert Storm Rogers was tasked to develop and implement an upgraded Combat Pistol program.

Source: http://www.opskillsgroup.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=26&Itemid=36

This is what I found in print and not spoken words that are difficult to verify. Unless something here is false, why drag the man's good name through the cyber-mud?

[bkb0000]

doesnt pat still post here?

how bout it, pat?

i too haven't ever heard any claims other than he's retired USMC and LEO

[bkb0000]

The title of Chief Scout is and was used in the Corps. I'd like to see a copy of his DD214.

http://www.pownetwork.org/pownet.sec..._patrcik_1.pdf

someone posted this for you... written by a chimpanzee with a sharpee and a 75 year old photocopier

[Derek_Connor]

If you have any questions for Pat, just ask him. He'll be more the glad to entertain any questions, which is MUCH more then his "accusers" will do.

I'm trying to figure out why we are taking the word from some obscure web site. God knows how accurate info is on the web. Who cares about what the POW hall of shame has to say. Does it know Pat? Does the person that posted these things about him serve with him or even know him? What is the poster's story? How do we know that the guys that posted these things aren't sitting in their own feces and spreading peanut butter on them selves.

I'm with Buck on this one. Pat is a good dude. Unless it turns out that he has Jimmy Hoffa under his house (as If I give a s*&^ about that guy) I'm on his side.

I think some people may need to get a life.

Just saying...


Agreed, all this posting on the POW seems to be somewhat biased.

I have heard from Pat about all the things that have been posted, I have heard him specifically state that he was never w/Force, that he was a reservist after Vietnam, that he was CWO when he retired, and that he was NYPD, like most of us have probably heard during his classes.

Someone has an axe to grind me thinks.

[Jim D]

I noticed Pat's status here recently and wondered why he was no longer free to post here.

Other forums have had similar threads claiming he was a "fraud" and a bunch of other stuff.

All of this "whistle blowing" reeks of politics and industry backstabbing. If I had to guess, someone is out to make a buck at Pat's expense.

Until I can see specifics, that are verified....I'm writing this off as keyboard commando drama.

Edited to add: I also don't think it's quite fair to spread rumors and question the integrity of someone without allowing them to speak up about it. I for one would like to see Pat's status changed, so he can speak for himself.

[dhrith]

Until I see a whole lot more than I have, and I ain't particularly looking, I'm gonna leave this in the "axe to grind/too stupid to hear the difference between trained recon, and was IN recon category".

[JSantoro]

I'm gonna leave this in the "axe to grind/too stupid to hear the difference between trained recon, and was IN recon category".

Particularly since it's an easy jump for some idiot to make. I come from the USMC Light Armored Recon community, by trade, and have never made any statements regarding Bn or Force Recon beyond saying that I've worked with both during OIF 1, which is true. We'd back them up of raids or provide outer cordon. Did the Recon indoc and passed, but never chose to pursue that path.

And yet, there is inevitably some rock that vapor-locks on the word "Recon," with no assimilation of whatever information came before or after that word, and insists that I have claimed to have been an 0321. It's an easy mistake for the uninitiated to make, and an easy falsehood for somebody with a grudge to perpetuate.

[RWK]

Ok, first off let me say that my intent is not to stir up any shit. I am simply trying to get some info and figure something out. Recently I heard rumors that Pat Rogers had made some claims about his military service that were less than truthful. Then today I discover that he was being mentioned on another website SOCNET that he was long known amongst those there as being a fraud.

Additionally it would appear that he has been added to the POW Network Hall of Shame. So my question is what claims specifically did he make or imply during training, in articles, etc...? How did he manage to fool so many people?

If anyone has taken his classes do you feel like you were taken?

Early last year I brought Pat to North Carolina to teach his COC. As I talked with him over the course of three days I found that Pat knows people whom I know and I know people who know Pat going back over 20 years in the Marine Corps. At no point did anything come close to raising a BS flag. Everything he said of which I have personal knowledge jived.

Pat's COC curriculum is solid and he knows his material. It was time well-spent in my opinion.

He's a retired Marine Corps Warrant Officer and NYPD cop; plus he's short, old and Irish. That means he's blunt, prone to sarcastic rants, and has a wickedly acerbic sense of humor. Over the course of three days, I laughed until my face hurt.