The Plague! Our new ally against terror?

[thopkins22]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2146286.ece

Is this real? Cool that so far it's only consumed al-Qaeda, but I didn't realize that the plague still existed.

[tweakmeister]

It pops up where conditions like this are present. Let one rat go in that place and this can happen.

[Mr.Goodtimes]

the CIA had nothing to do with that lol

[murphy j]

Isn't the Sun the UKs version of the Enquirer? Or am I confusing it with a different paper?

[thopkins22]

Isn't the Sun the UKs version of the Enquirer?

I was actually wondering that before I posted this, but I looked around the other sections in "NEWS" and most of it seemed to be pretty standard fare. Of course the newspaper editors are apparently scared to death of knives. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/justice/article1213430.ece

[tweakmeister]

The Sun is another Rupert Murdoch tabloid newspaper. I think it's a very similar format to Fox News here in the states in terms of presentation.

[Gutshot John]

You don't hear much about bubonic plague anymore since it's usually easily treated with antibiotics. Almost no one dies of it any more in the Western world. AQ on the other hand may be vulnerable.

It's still a problem in the 3rd world and as of at least 10 years ago the US military still gave inoculations to service members going into plague-ridden areas.

It sounds "sexy" but in reality it's kind of a non-issue.

Virtually all newspapers in England are scandal-rags with very few exceptions and have been that way for many many decades. I'd take anything it reports with a grain of salt.

[g5m]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2146286.ece

Is this real? Cool that so far it's only consumed al-Qaeda, but I didn't realize that the plague still existed.

The plague is indigenous to the Southwest US. (Four corners area particularly).

[bkb0000]

biological warfare might do some good in a-stan. i have no way of knowing how well we've developed weaponized diseases, but if we had some sort of fast killing, short incubation pathogen we could pretty much quiet the a-stan countryside in short order.

then, of course, as we all know, the virus would mutate into something uncontrollable and be spread throughout the world, turning all infected into brain-craving zombies- and we'd FINALLY get to use these civilian ARs we blow our milk money on

c'mon, c'mon, c'monc'monc'mon!

[HenryAZ]

The plague is indigenous to the Southwest US. (Four corners area particularly).


Greetings to all from a first-time poster, longer-time lurker/M4 researcher.

I was quite surprised to learn about the plague here in AZ after moving here 6 years ago. It is not widespread, but occurs often enough to be noteworthy (1.5 cases per year). Interesting in the article cited below is its propensity for higher altitudes (above 4500 ft). which may play a role for the cave-dwelling terrorists.

AZ Dept of Health Services news release (http://www.azdhs.gov/news/2007-all/firstplague-2007.htm)

[Gutshot John]

biological warfare might do some good in a-stan. i have no way of knowing how well we've developed weaponized diseases, but if we had some sort of fast killing, short incubation pathogen we could pretty much quiet the a-stan countryside in short order.

Please consider the implications of such a policy. I know that the frustration can often make the unthinkable, thinkable. I doubt very much that this is the result of a US weapon. If so then the implications are horrifying.

1. Biological weapons are extremely difficult to control. What you use against the enemy could find its way back to you. Even if you have the ability to treat your soldiers, the humanitarian burden of a plague outbreak could have significant strategic complications.

2. There is no way of determining from the article if the plague has had any tactical/strategic impact that justifies its potential risks.

3. The US has signed any number of treaties that prohibit the use of such Biological weapons. We would not only be violating international law, more importantly we would be violating a standard we set for ourselves.

4. We took down Iraq because of its supposed NBC program, if we are now engaging in the exact same thing, we would be no different and would justifiably earn worldwide approbation, if not outright war.

5. We would abandon any pretense of a moral highground. AQ would be perfectly justified to retaliate in any similar fashion: Small Pox? Suitcase Nuke? If we use biologic weapons than we are by definition targeting innocent civilians.

Pound them mercilessly, but we are and should be held to a higher standard than AQ.

[g5m]

The Japanese used biological warfare in China in WWll. The plague. Now, nearly 70 years later, the Chinese are still having to deal with it.

[lalakai]

sorry Gutshot but have to disagree. The US may have signed any number of treaties, but it's my opinion that those treaties are merely for public display. To know how to combat biological weapons, you have to understand how they work. and you can't understand how they work, without having the most likely reagents in the labs to experiment on.

it's an interesting "dance" and difficult to explain in a logical fashion. I believe and support the United States, but i do not trust the governement of the United States. In many cases i believe in the spirit of the law versus the letter of the law. And i live by the belief: no matter how paranoid you are, you are not paranoid enough.:rolleyes:

[Gutshot John]

To know how to combat biological weapons, you have to understand how they work. and you can't understand how they work, without having the most likely reagents in the labs to experiment on.


You misunderstand. I'm not arguing against preparing for and being ready for to defend against a potential Biologic attack.

I'm arguing against the offensive use of Biologic weapons as a tactic or strategy in Afghanistan which is what bkb0000 seemed to be saying.

We are held, and indeed hold ourselves to higher standards than our enemy.

[Safetyhit]

Infect our enemies with the plague, therefore committing genocide against the entire population? This is advocated by some here?


Would like to think this forum holds itself to a higher standard. Certainly glad our country does.

[lalakai]

no, i do think the US has those weapons and the means to deliver them. the justification for using them would be developed based on the situation. worst case scenario is that they would be traced back to us, but i think the initial attemp would be to plead innocence, followed by an attempt to justify the usage.

too many instances in the past where highly dubious actions were taken, that were justified by the US. Firebombing japan, Tuskogee, surface nuclear testing in the US, WMD's in iraq. And these are the ones with a very very high degree of certainty.

and please don't confuse this as being unAmerican; rather it's unGovernment.

[DrJSW]

Bubonic plague is still out there, and as others have pointed out, is endemic in the 3rd world. Most cases occur in isolated regions and are not reported, so no one knows what the real annual incidence is worldwide. Ditto for anthrax, leprosy, and tuberculosis.

FWIW, I don't believe smallpox has been eradicated, despite the UN's claims. We're a damn sight better prepared to deal with an outbreak of bubonic plague than we are a smallpox epidemic. And we know smallpox has been used in biological weapons research in at least one hostile nation.

[Rider79]

Of course the newspaper editors are apparently scared to death of knives. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/justice/article1213430.ece

I signed the petition, those English pricks don't need knives. :D

[tinman44]

then, of course, as we all know, the virus would mutate into something uncontrollable and be spread throughout the world, turning all infected into brain-craving zombies- and we'd FINALLY get to use these civilian ARs we blow our milk money on

c'mon, c'mon, c'monc'monc'mon!


this should be the post of the day imo

[M4tographer]

Let's add a little twist to the story:


Al Qaeda bungles arms experiment
Eli Lake (Contact)

An al Qaeda affiliate in Algeria closed a base earlier this month after an experiment with unconventional weapons went awry, a senior U.S. intelligence official said Monday.

The official, who spoke on the condition he not be named because of the sensitive nature of the issue, said he could not confirm press reports that the accident killed at least 40 al Qaeda operatives, but he said the mishap led the militant group to shut down a base in the mountains of Tizi Ouzou province in eastern Algeria.

He said authorities in the first week of January intercepted an urgent communication between the leadership of al Qaeda in the Land of the Maghreb (AQIM) and al Qaeda's leadership in the tribal region of Pakistan on the border with Afghanistan. The communication suggested that an area sealed to prevent leakage of a biological or chemical substance had been breached, according to the official.

"We don't know if this is biological or chemical," the official said.

The story was first reported by the British tabloid the Sun, which said the al Qaeda operatives died after being infected with a strain of bubonic plague, the disease that killed a third of Europe's population in the 14th century. But the intelligence official dismissed that claim.


More here: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jan/19/al-qaeda-bungles-arms-experiment/

[lalakai]

it's only logical to assume they are trying to develop alternate methods to kill on a large scale. They have even fewer moral constraints then the US, and from their perspective, any weapon they can develop and use is justified due to the basic inbalances that currently exist (technology, materials, manpower, ect.).

I attended a seminar on psychology, and the presenter gave an excellent description of the psycological profile of a terrorist, and the common patterns that form and develop as a person moves further down the road of becoming a terrorist. one of the presenters books is a good read. http://www.fridayslaws.com/

.............the book also helps in dealing with kids too. :D

[Gutshot John]

Let's add a little twist to the story:

That's really interesting.

In that regard I have no sympathy.

It does however point to the inherent tactical and strategic problems of biologic warfare. Invariably it poses a greater risk to you than to your enemy.

I have no objection to killing as many badguys as possible, I just have no interest in justifying their employment of biologic warfare.

[bkb0000]

my sympathies for a-stanians and iraqies has dwindled and dwindled.. especially iraqies.. to the point that I wouldnt scream in outrage if we pulled back and dropped a few Landlords across the countryside.

but i'm not cool with biological warfare. zombies, man... zombies.