Charles Daly M4 general consensus? [Archive]

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trunkmonkey

01-19-09, 17:47

I'm thinking of picking up this rifle and I'm wondering what the general consensus is on it. What is it missing that I'd want to do to it to bring it up to colt or LMT standards?? Just looking to see if this is a good deal for what your getting.

M4 feed ramps?
Parkerized under the FSB?
Magnetic particle tested?

D M4LE
MSRP: $1,309

Chrome lined 4150 barrel, (MIL-B-11595E, CrMoV Grade) with M-203 mounting groove
M4 Feedramps
Forged "F" front sight base with bayonet lug & rubber coated sling swivel
Milspec diameter receiver extension with "H" buffer
T-Marked Flattop upper
6-position telestock
A2 "Birdcage" flash hider
Oval Double Heat-Shield M4 forend
One 30 Round Aluminum Mil-Spec Mag with Magpul self-leveling follower
Now With A3 Detachable Carry Handle

tweakmeister

01-19-09, 17:48

It's fine out of the box - they did their homework on this model and it's GTG.

Littlelebowski

01-19-09, 18:06

There's this thing called the "Search Function' and from that, you could find "the Chart....."

Eric

01-19-09, 18:47

One M4C link. (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=22562&highlight=charles+daly)
And another. (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=14400&highlight=charles+daly)
Like anything now, the trick is finding one...at a reasonable price.

freestylewcc

01-19-09, 21:05

It is a fantastic gun. I only have 500 rounds through mine, no problems. Have to say I haven't heard a negative comment on the CDM4 line.

Gentoo

01-19-09, 23:42

Only problem with it is that it is currently selling for the full MSRP if you can find it.

From what I understand, before all the obama panic, it could be had for $950 OTD. Now that was hot.

1SFG

01-20-09, 01:26

Gentoo

01-20-09, 02:27

Spoke to the president of the company at SHOT and from the discussion it appears their rifle effort has been a hands-on deal for him. In his words, "We knew we were late to the game and a lot of company's were offering this product, so we knew we had to get it right the first time." He went as far as to field strip the rifle in front of me to point out areas where some "other" manufacturers tend to skip corners, but where his company did not. Not a bad rifle based on what I saw. Would definitely like to hear from someone with a lot of rounds through the pipe.

They sure did. I went back and read alot of their old posts and stuff.

The only mistake they made IMO was they diluted their product line with lower end models. They should have just come out with the CDM4LE and not bothered with the other ones. So if you want the 'good' one, you have to pay careful attention to the model you are getting, and not just look for "Charles Daly Defense" on the side.

vigilant2

01-20-09, 07:54

I've got a CDM4LE, so far no problems, one 2-day carbine class with it,approximately 800 rnds total through it.

ToddG

01-20-09, 09:08

The only mistake they made IMO was they diluted their product line with lower end models. They should have just come out with the CDM4LE and not bothered with the other ones. So if you want the 'good' one, you have to pay careful attention to the model you are getting, and not just look for "Charles Daly Defense" on the side.

Except the market doesn't work that way. The number of people who are perfectly satisfied with a less expensive, less feature rich product is greater than the number who will pay top dollar for checking all the boxes in "The Chart."

A CDM4LE in middy configuration was one of the things I hoped to see at SHOT. Right now, they're selling every single rifle they can build ... they cannot keep up with demand for stuff at the top or bottom of their product line.

ZDL

01-20-09, 14:07

Except the market doesn't work that way. The number of people who are perfectly satisfied with a less expensive, less feature rich product is greater than the number who will pay top dollar for checking all the boxes in "The Chart."

A CDM4LE in middy configuration was one of the things I hoped to see at SHOT. Right now, they're selling every single rifle they can build ... they cannot keep up with demand for stuff at the top or bottom of their product line.

DING!

I'm was molesting the shotguns they had on display as well. Look forward to getting some trigger time on them to see what they are bringing to the table.

rob_s

01-20-09, 14:33

People seem to forget that gun companies are in business to make money. If they can make $100,000 on cheap guns and $10,000 on expensive ones, which do you think they're going to make?

thopkins22

01-20-09, 14:49

DING!

I'm was molesting the shotguns they had on display as well. Look forward to getting some trigger time on them to see what they are bringing to the table.

My sample of one Charles Daly semi-auto shotgun has performed well and proven itself durable. I ran it sans O ring for several hundred rounds(before Charles Daly confirmed the reports of excellent CS and sent me a couple for free,) and even then I only had a couple of hiccups with light loads.

My one gripe is the distance between the grip and the trigger, and to a lesser degree the LOP. I don't have lady hands, but it's too much distance to the trigger. The LOP is not as much of an issue because I use the gun for clays and birdhunting...if it were a HD gun I'd cut the stock down.

For a shotgun that you don't mind tossing in the back of your truck or accidentally dropping in the rocks during a hunt, I think they're hard to beat.

Littlelebowski

01-20-09, 16:26

Link (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642) to the Chart posted for trunkmonkey who doesn't appreciate suggestions to use the Search function hence the whiney PM I got in my Inbox this morning :D

ZDL

01-20-09, 16:28

jaydoc1

01-20-09, 18:22

ZDL

01-20-09, 18:54

jaydoc1

01-20-09, 21:44

Fair enough.

Charles Daly

01-20-09, 23:06

They sure did. I went back and read alot of their old posts and stuff.

The only mistake they made IMO was they diluted their product line with lower end models. They should have just come out with the CDM4LE and not bothered with the other ones. So if you want the 'good' one, you have to pay careful attention to the model you are getting, and not just look for "Charles Daly Defense" on the side.

First, thanks to all who posted with the positive replies. Second, I want to address the comments in the above quote...

Our D-M4LE is certainly considered the "flagship" model in our line, particularly to M4C members and others who want a 6920 clone at a reasonable price.

However, I think that to call our other models "lower end" is a misnomer. All of our guns are built with the same quality and attention to detail. Only the specificaitons change from model to model.

For example, the only differences between our D-M4 and the D-M4LE are as follows:

D-M4

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc79/kaz53_photos/CDDM416--D-M4Carbine.jpg

D-M4.....Mil-Spec barrel (MIL-B-11595E, CrMoV Grade), chrome lined with 1:7 twist
D-M4.....Commercial receiver extension with standard carbine buffer

D-M4LE

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc79/kaz53_photos/CDDM416--D-M4Carbine.jpg

D-M4LE.....4140 barrel, chrome lined with 1:9 twist
D-M4LE.....Mi-Spec receiver extension with "H" buffer

Some AR shooters will be quite content with the D-M4 for the type of range shooting or hunting they may do. Others may want the D-M4LE for the better barrel steel and slower twist, or for the greater ease in changing some after-market buttstocks.

My point is that both are made with the same quality of construction and attention to detail. Both have M4 feedramps, T-Marked uppers, proper castle nut and gas key staking, chrome lined bolt carrier, black extractor insert with Crane O-ring, forged upper and lower with hard coat anodizing and teflon finish. Both use the same buttstock and double heat shield forend. Both use the same forged charging handle and forged A3 detachable carry handle. They are exactly the same gun with only barrel steel, twist, diameter of receiver extension and buffer used. To say that one is "low end" and the other is not would not be correct. They are all good.

Our D-M4S is a D-M4 with a picatinny railed gas block and no carry handle but adds two 3-slot picatinny railed mini-riser blocks for proper scope height mounting on the flattop upper. (The "Optics Ready" appraoch.) Perfert for a plinker or a hunter that wants to properly fit a scope with a large objective to the flattop upper, or add front and rear BUIS with the front mounted on the gas block and the rear on the flattop.

D-M4S

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc79/kaz53_photos/CDDM4S16--D-M4SCarbine.jpg

Our new D-M4LED goes one step better than the standard D-M4LE by adding a Daniel Defense Lite Rail 7.0 with 3-ladder type rail covers in FDE, Magpul Miad Grip Kit (complete) in FDE, Magpul CTR/M in FDE and a Troy BUIS, (though pictured in black it is) also in FDE. This model will be sold exclusively through Davidson's GalleryofGuns.com.

D-M4LED

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc79/kaz53_photos/D-M4LEW-MagpulDDFDE50PC.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc79/kaz53_photos/D-M4LEDSiloLo-Res.jpg

Our DV-24 is a dedicated Varmint/Match gun, with a 24" stainless steel bull barrel with a 1:8 twist, a two-stage trigger, a ported aluminum handguard and an Ace buttstock. Purpose build for varmint hunting or match shooting.

DV-24

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc79/kaz53_photos/CDDRVR24--DV-24MatchTargetVarmintRi.jpg

Again, not everyone wants a 6920 clone for one reason or another, yet they want a high quality build more purpose built for their actual type of shooting. And with the modualrity of the AR, they can always buy a new upper at a later date that might have an application that wasn't there when the gun was first purchased.

There is a home for all of these guns in our line and I think we would have been doing ourselves, and our customers a disservice if we had only offered one model.

Edit: There are so many bottlenecks in production right now that we are forced to introduce a new model if we want to be able to increase production. This will be the D-M4P. This gun will be the exact same gun as the D-M4 but without a chrome lined barrel and without M4 Feedramps. I hate to come to market with a gun that has less features than we have gotten a reputation for, but if we continue to insist on waiting for chrome lined barrels and waiting for uppers with M4 Feedramps, we will not be able to build all the guns that we could be selling in this current market condition. We need to get our production ramped up to 500-1,000 per week (while maintaining excellent QC) and this is the only way for our company to accomplish that. If we insist on chrome lining and M4 Feedramps we will be stuck at 100 pieces per week. Which would you produce?

ZDL

01-20-09, 23:08

Pleasure meeting you last Sunday Michael. Look forward to the tactical shotguns.

rob_s

01-21-09, 04:48

As nice as "The Chart" is, it's a fairly sterile evaluation of certain models of different manufacturers' rifles. Those that have actually used the rifles can give a much better idea of how they actually function in certain types of usage. In a way the chart is like comparing a Nighthawk Talon vs a Nighthawk GRP. The GRP is actually a better fighting gun based on simplicity and durablility, but there are plenty of people who want a Talon because they like the fit and finish. "The Chart" imparts none of this type of information, only presenting which rifle is the most "mil-spec" (and BTW, if a company isn't actually selling to the US government, then they can claim to be mil-spec all they want, but they aren't).

Opening paragraph from the Explanation of Features (which everyone wants to ignore, and which in fact is way more informative than the Chart itself):

Without the information in the explanations below, The Chart(s) on the following tabs of this file are all but worthless. It is critical, when considering an M4-pattern carbine, to ensure that you understand the list of features and can figure out for yourself if a specific feature is applicable to your intended use. If a sufficient number of the features below and on The Chart are not applicable to your use, then perhaps an M4-pattern carbine is not the right choice for you.

Rider79

01-21-09, 08:34

I'm confused, I thought the barrel steels and twist rate was the other way around between the DM4 and the DM4LE?

First, thanks to all who posted with the positive replies. Second, I want to address the comments in the above quote...

Our D-M4LE is certainly considered the "flagship" model in our line, particularly to M4C members and others who want a 6920 clone at a reasonable price.

However, I think that to call our other models "lower end" is a misnomer. All of our guns are built with the same quality and attention to detail. Only the specificaitons change from model to model.

For example, the only differences between our D-M4 and the D-M4LE are as follows:

D-M4

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc79/kaz53_photos/CDDM416--D-M4Carbine.jpg

D-M4.....Mil-Spec barrel (MIL-B-11595E, CrMoV Grade), chrome lined with 1:7 twist
D-M4.....Commercial receiver extension with standard carbine buffer

D-M4LE

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc79/kaz53_photos/CDDM416--D-M4Carbine.jpg

D-M4LE.....4140 barrel, chrome lined with 1:9 twist
D-M4LE.....Mi-Spec receiver extension with "H" buffer

Some AR shooters will be quite content with the D-M4 for the type of range shooting or hunting they may do. Others may want the D-M4LE for the better barrel steel and slower twist, or for the greater ease in changing some after-market buttstocks.

My point is that both are made with the same quality of construction and attention to detail. Both have M4 feedramps, T-Marked uppers, proper castle nut and gas key staking, chrome lined bolt carrier, black extractor insert with Crane O-ring, forged upper and lower with hard coat anodizing and teflon finish. Both use the same buttstock and double heat shield forend. Both use the same forged charging handle and forged A3 detachable carry handle. They are exactly the same gun with only barrel steel, twist, diameter of receiver extension and buffer used. To say that one is "low end" and the other is not would not be correct. They are all good.

Our D-M4S is a D-M4 with a picatinny railed gas block and no carry handle but adds two 3-slot picatinny railed mini-riser blocks for proper scope height mounting on the flattop upper. (The "Optics Ready" appraoch.) Perfert for a plinker or a hunter that wants to properly fit a scope with a large objective to the flattop upper, or add front and rear BUIS with the front mounted on the gas block and the rear on the flattop.

D-M4S

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc79/kaz53_photos/CDDM4S16--D-M4SCarbine.jpg

Our new D-M4LED goes one step better than the standard D-M4LE by adding a Daniel Defense Lite Rail 7.0 with 3-ladder type rail covers in FDE, Magpul Miad Grip Kit (complete) in FDE, Magpul CTR/M in FDE and a Troy BUIS, (though pictured in black it is) also in FDE. This model will be sold exclusively through Davidson's GalleryofGuns.com.

D-M4LED

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc79/kaz53_photos/D-M4LEW-MagpulDDFDE50PC.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc79/kaz53_photos/D-M4LEDSiloLo-Res.jpg

Our DV-24 is a dedicated Varmint/Match gun, with a 24" stainless steel bull barrel with a 1:8 twist, a two-stage trigger, a ported aluminum handguard and an Ace buttstock. Purpose build for varmint hunting or match shooting.

DV-24

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc79/kaz53_photos/CDDRVR24--DV-24MatchTargetVarmintRi.jpg

Again, not everyone wants a 6920 clone for one reason or another, yet they want a high quality build more purpose built for their actual type of shooting. And with the modualrity of the AR, they can always buy a new upper at a later date that might have an application that wasn't there when the gun was first purchased.

There is a home for all of these guns in our line and I think we would have been doing ourselves, and our customers a disservice if we had only offered one model.

Edit: There are so many bottlenecks in production right now that we are forced to introduce a new model if we want to be able to increase production. This will be the D-M4P. This gun will be the exact same gun as the D-M4 but without a chrome lined barrel and without M4 Feedramps. I hate to come to market with a gun that has less features than we have gotten a reputation for, but if we continue to insist on waiting for chrome lined barrels and waiting for uppers with M4 Feedramps, we will not be able to build all the guns that we could be selling in this current market condition. We need to get our production ramped up to 500-1,000 per week (while maintaining excellent QC) and this is the only way for our company to accomplish that. If we insist on chrome lining and M4 Feedramps we will be stuck at 100 pieces per week. Which would you produce?

rob_s

01-21-09, 08:41

I'm confused, I thought the barrel steels and twist rate was the other way around between the DM4 and the DM4LE?

I think you're right.

Did you have to quote the whole entire CDD post though?! :eek:

Rider79

01-21-09, 08:59

I think you're right.

Did you have to quote the whole entire CDD post though?! :eek:

Sorry. Using my phone browser, doesn't let you scroll to the end of the message to start deleting it back to the part you want to show. This is all a moot point anyway, it's not like you can find a CD M4LE.

ToddG

01-21-09, 10:03

This is all a moot point anyway, it's not like you can find a CD M4LE.

As Michael K. pointed out, right now the demand for chrome lining is huge because all of the lower-tier companies are eating up capacity. (most companies outsource their chrome lining because it's so expensive to set up and requires hazardous materials).

Beretta has (or at least had) pretty extensive chrome lining capability for the M9 project, I wonder if anyone has contacted them about the possibility of doing M4 barrels.

Gentoo

01-21-09, 13:30

Mr. Kassnar, I didn't mean to imply that I thought the CDD guns were low quality. They most certainly are not, and if it came across that way then I apologize for any misunderstanding.

What I meant was from reading the back posts here and at TOS regarding entering the AR market, it seemed to me that CDD was intending to be among the Colts, LMTs, and Noveskes. (Which IMO was accomplished with the M4LE). So it struck me as incongruous that there were models with 4140 steel, 1x9 twist, non-mil spec REs. I understand WHY the are there, just as I understand the production decision to make the D-M4P.

I've edited the next paragraph about 10 times so far and it still isn't sounding right. I don't think I will be able to properly convey what I am trying to say, so I will just stop before I end up berated and (more) misunderstood.

BTW, I've not seen a D-M4LED anywhere. Was that a planned model that ended up getting scrapped due to Obamamaina? I'd love to get one....

Charles Daly

01-21-09, 16:40

Some days I can be such an idiot...

I completely reversed the specs for the D-M4 and the D-M4LE.

The LE has the better barrel, 1:7 twist, mil-spec receiver extension and "H" buffer. My bad! :o

Charles Daly

01-21-09, 16:43

...BTW, I've not seen a D-M4LED anywhere. Was that a planned model that ended up getting scrapped due to Obamamaina? I'd love to get one....

The D-M4LED is very much in production and will be available exclusively through Davidson's GalleryofGuns.com. The first batch should be in their hands in 3-4 weeks.

jtskier11

01-22-09, 22:30

Good all around guns!
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/jtskier11/IMG_0202.jpg

Gramps

01-22-09, 23:36

I guess if some one doesn't like/agree with Robs chart, they are more than welcome to make their own. Just don't coppy what you don't like that some one else put a lot of time and effort into. If you can't figure it out, or don't agree with it, then don't use it. It's not our place to bash it, after all it is FREE to read, not like he sells it and forced any one to buy or read it. If you have a problem with it or a sugested improvement, them PM the owner of it, and don't bring it to the public about your disagreement.

So if you don't agree with it, then make and post your own for free, and take the risk of getting bashed.

Thanks for your efforts Rob. Even a FUDD could use it for advice as to what/why he wants to purchase.

POF.Ops

01-24-09, 00:12

AMEN! I want a Charles Daly D-M4LED and will be placing my order with Davidson's.

DocRod

01-27-09, 13:49

The D-M4LED is very much in production and will be available exclusively through Davidson's GalleryofGuns.com. The first batch should be in their hands in 3-4 weeks.

Thanks for the info Mr. K - I guess I'll quit checking Davidsons site every 4 hours now! :D

g5m

02-11-09, 12:26

Any info as to availability of the D-M4LED's yet?

larry0071

02-12-09, 08:22

Just to note,

I have a CDD D-M4, Bushmaster Carbon-15, and Stag 1L.

I did a pictorial comparison of the Stag vs CDD showing the obvious quality of the CDD over the Stag.

Of my 3, I consider my CDD the better of the group. It feels, looks, and shoots better. I have put about 1500 rounds through it and not had an issue with the rifle. The LE I'm sure is better yet.... but if you compare the D-M4 to the other similar priced stuff..... The CDD D-M4 stands head and shoulders above the pack.

The D-M4 should not be in any way indicated as a lower quality machine. Feed ramps, BCG, GK staking, fit/finish...everything is better on the CDD machine.

I would love to own another (2nd) CDD.... and when I get to feeling rich again, I will.

Rider79

02-12-09, 14:35

Just to note,

I have a CDD D-M4, Bushmaster Carbon-15, and Stag 1L.

....

I would love to own another (2nd) CDD.... and when I get to feeling rich again, I will.

Do yourself a favor, sell the Carbon-15, and there's the money for a new Charles Daly! (Well maybe not all of it, but some at least) :)

sullafelix

02-12-09, 18:44

I have a D M4 bought before the recent craziness and am very happy with it. Definitely not a low end rifle. Would buy another Daly in a heartbeat.

30 cal slut

02-13-09, 09:55

Michael,

Thanks for posting all that helpful info on your product line.

My local FFL stocks Charles Daly scatterguns, and relative to the Remington 870 product in stock, is very reasonably priced.

I was surprised that he didn't stock any M4's from your company (even before 11/4/08). My FFL was surprised too, when I told him.

I live in a "ban" state (CT) ... are you producing any postban compliant guns other than the bull barrel model?

Thanks!

-slut

mpardun

02-13-09, 13:56

I bought the M4LE from grant after the Obamification of America - pisses me off as I could have had a 6920 or Noveske N4 basic for the same price 2 months earlier!

I may get flamed for saying this, but my belief is that it is equivalent from a quality perspective to COLT 6920 - for $400+ less these days. Fit and finish was impeccable (better than my '93 COLT HBAR by a long shot).

For the same money I would also consider the LMT M4 if you can find one - should be $1250ish.

I am happy with mine - so far so good...I made it my iron sighted KISS rifle, aside from adding a Triji front post 924/7 stripe), MOE stock, MOE handguard (on order), mini rail and SF light. She is/will be stock.

Thank you Michael and KBI - great product, reasonable (subjective) price!

Charles Daly

02-13-09, 21:29

Any info as to availability of the D-M4LED's yet?

Any day now...

Seriously, the first batch should go out by the end of next week. I will post here as soon as they leave our facility. Since Davidson's GalleryofGuns.com will be the exclusive distributor for these, and we are in PA and they are in AZ, you will have to add another week for them to receive them.

HES

02-13-09, 22:45

Im willing to bet this has been asked, but does CDD have any plans for a middy at all?

DRich

02-14-09, 01:33

I've been using a Sabre Defence M4 for two years as my primary training rifle and I've wanted a backup....just in case. The Sabre is a fantastic rifle, but I've seen enough guns go down in classes to know that having a second rifle can be handy.

After reading this thread (and many others) I decided to get a Daly M4LE. Same basic specs as my Sabre and hopefully just as reliable. I look forward to giving it a workout soon.

macomb8

02-14-09, 16:14

I have them both and the fit and finish is much better on the Charles Daly. The Colt has slop between the upper/lower receiver. The Colt has more slop than any other new AR I have handled. The CD only have a very minor wiggle.
The Colt's forge seams quite prominent in the trigger guard and inside the carry hande cut out. The CD has a smooth carry handle and better finished trigger guard seam.
They both reliable equal shooters that digest Wolf ammunition without a hitch.