First AR / Noveske 14.5" vs 16"?

[Quoth the raven]

I am in the process of saving up for a Noveske N4 and hope that once they are accepting orders again that I will have saved enough for the purchase.

I know that I want the Low Profile version but am undecided on the 14.5" with pinned flash suppressor or the recce 16". This will be my first and probably only AR style rifle.

This rifle will primarily be used for target/range but also serve as my home defense and SHTF rifle.

Can you tell me the pros and cons of the 14.5" vs the 16" and which you would recommend and why?

[Quoth the raven]

No recommendations?

14.5" pinned vs 16"

Please advise

[austinN4]

14.5" will be a carbine length gas system - can't easily remove pinned and welded FS
16" will be a mid length gas system - can easily remove FS

[E53001]

my recommendation is buy a colt or lmt if they are available in stock anywhere close to you ASAP rather than stick it out for the wait with Noveske, im in the same boat and really want to wait it out, but am afraid im going to wind up buying a colt for now until our new guy in office leaves office and guns are no longer an issue of interest to the oh so wonderful Gov't

[YVK]

I don't have time to elaborate right now, but my choice is 16. In fact, my choice was 16 as my first AR was Noveske-barrelled 16 inch midlength.

[vicious_cb]

depends what you are going to do with it, shorter and lighter is always better

[Bpurcg19]

Vicious: Shorter and Lighter is NOT ALWAYS better,like you said, it depends on what you will do with it. A shorter barrel might not make sense for you in some situations.

[Mung]

Get the Recce.

[Army Chief]

When in doubt, stick with 16" -- it will give you more options with less headaches down the road. That's not to say that the 14.5" is any less versatile, but the pinned FS will complicate matters somewhat if/when you decide to start making changes.

AC

[teufeldog]

14.5" with perm flash suppressor is cool. But I'd personally go with a 16" mid-length AR.

[AirmanAtwood]

The pinned Flash suppressor wont give you the option of changing to comps and brakes.

[Parabellum9x19mm]

i like the 14.5 N4 a lot

for my first i would go with the recce, 16" mid

i got the 14.5" one first, but that just because there were no middies out at that time

[socal80]

new here and just wanted to ask if the N4 16" Light Recce VIS Basic Upper is a good option to go with if the low profile is not available? Is there a major difference in the two?

[Parabellum9x19mm]

low profile = Vltor MUR upper, SWS rails

VIS= Vltor VIS polylithic upper w/integrated foreend rails. it gives you easier barrel swaps too, if you care about that.

they're both good.

[RogerinTPA]

I like the Middy's as well, but I'd get a Colt or LMT ASAP. The future prices will only get worse. You will be here a year from now regretting your decision to purchase today when they were "cheap".:rolleyes:

[socal80]

I like the Middy's as well, but I'd get a Colt or LMT ASAP. The future prices will only get worse. You will be here a year from now regretting your decision to purchase today when they were "cheap".:rolleyes:

Which LMT would you recommend?

[RogerinTPA]

Which LMT would you recommend?

LMT Defender here: https://www.lewismachine.net/product.php?p=186&cid=12&session=d994090e86a2f61bd3f432f76cff6b72

Or get an LMT lower first, like I did (Actually my girl got it for me for Christmas) or where ever available, and worry about the type of upper you want on it later.

[1911snob]

Noveske is currently not taking orders. But I would select the N4 recce

[Paladin4415]

Per some conversations with the folks in Oregon, they hope to be taking orders again some time in Feb. They are just waiting for their part suppliers to ship them product.
If you are looking for an all purpose rifle, get the Recce.

[lalakai]

for your purposes, both will meet your needs, without seriously compromising certain items. There won't be a noticeable loss in velocity between the two; the slightly shorter 14.5" will make it easier to manuver in tight quarters. The gas tube buffer issue won't be noticeable between the two, but the shorter gas tube on the 14.5 can be more finicky (nice firearm term eh?) at times. If you plan to do alot of range shooting, consider the balance and feel of the platform, and unfortunately at this point it gets difficult to compare "apples and apples" unless you have the actual HDR's in front of you. As others pointed out, going with the pinned setup on the 14.5" does make it more difficult for future modifications, but as you said this will likely be your only HDR of this style, it doesn't sound like you will be tinkering with it much, after the purchase.

I was able to compare between several different HDR's, ranging from the full lengths, down to the 11". Similiar parameters as you for applications. I opted for 16" midlength and added freefloat handguards. For myself and others who have shot my HDR, the balance is very nice and it gives us a very fast and comfortable sight picture.

on an added note, i was also at the same point in considering the Noveske setup, but when i had a chance to get a BCM 16" middy, it was an easy decision.

[AirmanAtwood]

for your purposes, both will meet your needs, without seriously compromising certain items. There won't be a noticeable loss in velocity between the two; the slightly shorter 14.5" will make it easier to manuver in tight


When he buys a 14.5" its going to be 16 inches overall with the pinned flash suppressor.

[FPembleton]

for your purposes, both will meet your needs, without seriously compromising certain items.

...and there is your answer. Buy one of each!

[Quoth the raven]

for your purposes, both will meet your needs, without seriously compromising certain items. There won't be a noticeable loss in velocity between the two; the slightly shorter 14.5" will make it easier to manuver in tight quarters. The gas tube buffer issue won't be noticeable between the two, but the shorter gas tube on the 14.5 can be more finicky (nice firearm term eh?) at times. If you plan to do alot of range shooting, consider the balance and feel of the platform, and unfortunately at this point it gets difficult to compare "apples and apples" unless you have the actual HDR's in front of you. As others pointed out, going with the pinned setup on the 14.5" does make it more difficult for future modifications, but as you said this will likely be your only HDR of this style, it doesn't sound like you will be tinkering with it much, after the purchase.

I was able to compare between several different HDR's, ranging from the full lengths, down to the 11". Similiar parameters as you for applications. I opted for 16" midlength and added freefloat handguards. For myself and others who have shot my HDR, the balance is very nice and it gives us a very fast and comfortable sight picture.

on an added note, i was also at the same point in considering the Noveske setup, but when i had a chance to get a BCM 16" middy, it was an easy decision.

Thank you for your comments. As you stated, i will not be tinkering too much with it since the noveske seems to already have most of what i'm looking for. The only things I am considering adding is an optic, light, and front vertical grip. I have been leaning toward the 14.5" since I am not looking to change things up but will I even notice the extra 1.5" of the 16" barrel?

[Molon]

There is a small but significant velocity loss when going from a 16” barrel to a 14.5” barrel.


http://www.box.net/shared/static/bfs4bni5op.jpg




The difference in overall length between a 16” barrel with an A2 flash-hider and a 14.5” barrel with a permanently attached Vortex flash-hider is only 1.1”.


http://www.box.net/shared/static/inxrnrnvm6.jpg


There is a definite and noticeable difference between shooting an AR-15 with a carbine length gas system and a mid-length gas system. Most people subjectively describe the mid-length gas system as being “smoother” and note that the mid-length system feels much more like shooting with a rifle length gas system.

16” Colt 6520
http://www.box.net/shared/static/vl52xkvq8r.jpg



16” Noveske N4
http://www.box.net/shared/static/24ynxp81u7.jpg

[N4LtRecce]

I'd recommend the Recce 16". It's a handy, reliable, accurate rifle. Probably my favorite gun.

[FPembleton]

When I ordered my N4, I was faced with the same choice. I can't own an SBR and I wasn't interested in a pinned muzzle device in case I felt like changing things on the rifle. Noveske shipped mine with a Surefire muzzle brake, and combined with the midlength gas system, it's really easy to shoot. For a range gun, I don't think you can go wrong with the recce. I'm also not sure you'll notice that much difference if you had to use either gun off range. My guess is that you'll end up seeing more benefits from the recce more of the time, than with the carbine on the off chance.

[Quoth the raven]

Thanks to everyone for your input. I believe I will be going with the low-profile recce as soon as they are taking orders again.:D

[bkb0000]

in my opinion a 16" barrel serves no purpose beyond being legal, unless you're doing a recce for recce type purposes. when you're talking about noveske, there's zero difference between a 14.5 N4 and a 16 N4 except movability. i'd get the 14.5. i built my long-desired Recce, and it's pretty much my most favoritest gun right now- but i cant think of any reason i'd ever build another 16".

in a world of hypothetical situations, a person might just go ahead and not pin the flash suppressor, knowing the chances of it ever becoming an issue are about 1:25,000,000. hypothetically. :)

[lmmmmm]

On a 14.5 basic Noveske with a permanent FH, can the FSB still be removed?

[MikeCLeonard]

On a 14.5 basic Noveske with a permanent FH, can the FSB still be removed?

No it wont be

[bkb0000]

thats the gay part about getting a perm, you better make sure you're happy with your handguard system. if you're ordering it that way, you have to have them install whatever barrel nut/handguard retention crap you'll need. that and you'll have to get it off if you want a suppressor.

perming flash suppressors is freaken lame

eta: hmm, i guess if you have no FSB you're probably ok, but still.

[Marine71]

Raven as an fyi, Noveske makes a 14.5 afghan barrel with a mid length gas system. If you were still considering a 14.5 this solves the carbine length system if that were an issue for you.

[Army Chief]

thats the gay part about getting a perm, you better make sure you're happy with your handguard system. if you're ordering it that way, you have to have them install whatever barrel nut/handguard retention crap you'll need. that and you'll have to get it off if you want a suppressor.

perming flash suppressors is freaken lame

eta: hmm, i guess if you have no FSB you're probably ok, but still.

I'm not convinced that this is entirely on-point. To begin with, even a permanently-installed flash suppressor can be removed; it's just that this is an industrial-grade task that the average home assembler cannot perform with standard tools. A competent riflesmith can do this for you, if required. Yes, it does preclude you from taking off last year's Rail System of the Year, and replacing it with this year's, but that is less of a concern with the advent of the DD Omega system, anyway.

Further, many permanent 14.5" FS installs are done using suppressor-compatible components. Witness Noveske's recent MPL MOE carbine, which got a perm 14.5" AAC Blackout FS. Without any modifications whatsoever, this carbine can be supressed with an AAC M4-2000 can all day long; meanwhile, the overall length shaves an inch or more off of the typical 16" setup. That's not huge, but it is definitely enough to be noticeable, especially if your applications require confined areas or a particularly fast-handling carbine.

Does permanently-affixing a FS limit your options? Yes, somewhat ... but not nearly to the extent that it once did, nor to the extend implied here. How many guys do you know that regularly remove their FS's to begin with? Chances are, it is few to none. There is rarely a reason to do so, especially if we're talking about a solution that can readily accept a suppressor. There is a valid point to be made here, certainly, but let's try to keep it in the proper perspective.

AC