View Full Version : Larue no longer sells bolts.....
olds442tyguy
01-23-09, 17:56
As of today, Mark Larue is refusing to sell his bolt groups.
This is my fault because I mentioned to a third party they don't MPI the bolt, use the black extractor insert, or the five coil extra power extractor spring. If you have any issue with me, please express it via PM as I don't want to see the mass amount of anger that will be directed my way posted on this forum in public.
zippygaloo
01-23-09, 17:59
Quality control maybe? :confused:
Gutshot John
01-23-09, 18:07
This seems a bit odd. Are you sure it was because of what you said? It seems foolish to change company policy based on the words of ONE m4carbine member. My guess is that there are other factors involved.
IIRC from my Caputo class, the MPI label does NOT mean that EVERY bolt so-marked has been MPI tested, similarly it doesn't mean that non-MPI tested bolts are of lesser quality.
Nathan_Bell
01-23-09, 18:08
Check out the thread on TOS.
olds442tyguy
01-23-09, 18:12
This seems a bit odd. Are you sure it was because of what you said?
Yes, he specifically named me.
If anyone has any comments regarding my involvement, please message me. I wanted to let people know in advance, but I'd prefer to keep it from cluttering up the board.
This seems a bit odd. Are you sure it was because of what you said? It seems foolish to change company policy based on the words of ONE m4carbine member. My guess is that there are other factors involved.
IIRC from my Caputo class, the MPI label does NOT mean that EVERY bolt so-marked has been MPI tested, similarly it doesn't mean that non-MPI tested bolts are of lesser quality.
Mark's own words
Heads-up, I am tired of the uninformed talking smack about sh*t they know nothing about.
My reaction to the constant "What does LaRue's bolt carrier group smell like ?" is to pull them down off the website.
If you are waiting on bolt carrier groups from us already, no worries, you'll get them.
If you wondering what the catalyst was, go ––->"Here"
My thanks to all of you that own BCGs put together by us, and yeppers, we're backing them a hunnert percent.
For those of you that didn't get in under-the-wire, go talk to vicious_cb and olds442tyguy.
SarcoBlaster
01-23-09, 18:16
Whatever. He needs to unclench. :rolleyes:
Gutshot John
01-23-09, 18:20
Wow just read the thread involved...and I thought I was argumentative.
Seems like a lot of that issue could have been resolved by a Dean Caputo class. Shocking that no one who commented in the thread seems to have taken one.
olds442tyguy
01-23-09, 18:26
What I said was 100% true and indisputable.
I may have been argumentative, but I was telling the truth. Larue does not HP or MPI his bolts. They use a four coil extractor springs instead of five, and they do not use a black extractor insert.
When someone asks, this is valid information in my opinion. The same goes for barrel steel, buffer tube diameter, etcetera.
Gutshot John
01-23-09, 18:33
What I said was 100% true and indisputable.
Only technically. Even if not strictly "mil-spec" the reality is that the LaRue BCG is probably of superior quality.
I may have been argumentative, but I was telling the truth. Larue does not HP or MPI his bolts. They use a four coil extractor springs instead of five, and they do not use a black extractor insert.
When someone asks, this is valid information in my opinion. The same goes for barrel steel, buffer tube diameter, etcetera.
Any guess as to how many bolts that are marked "MP" aren't actually MPI tested? MOST iirc yet they seem to perform just fine. The mark is almost meaningless.
As for the extractor springs and insert, I believe that these depend on the configuration of AR that you're using. Moreover replacing them costs all of what? $10?
Until there are reports of LaRue bolts failing more than "mil-spec" bolts I'm a little underwhelmed by your argument.
Honestly, I'd like to see if Dean Caputo can offer up some better information.
As of today, Mark Larue is refusing to sell his bolt groups.
That's really sad to hear. Mark LaRue is a great American and makes great products. :(
olds442tyguy
01-23-09, 18:51
Only technically. Even if not strictly "mil-spec" the reality is that the LaRue BCG is probably of superior quality.
Any guess as to how many bolts that are marked "MP" aren't actually MPI tested? MOST iirc yet they seem to perform just fine. The mark is almost meaningless.
As for the extractor springs and insert, I believe that these depend on the configuration of AR that you're using. Moreover replacing them costs all of what? $10?
Until there are reports of LaRue bolts failing more than "mil-spec" bolts I'm a little underwhelmed by your argument.
Honestly, I'd like to see if Dean Caputo can offer up some better information.
Where did I ever say they were junk?
How could it be superior? Mark says himself it's made by the same people, so the only difference is a lack of inspection and higher power extraction parts.
Gutshot John
01-23-09, 18:58
Where did I ever say they were junk?
When did I say that you said LaRue was junk? The whole point of your posts was to say/imply/argue that the LaRue was inferior to other selections. You didn't SAY it was junk, you only implied it throughout.
How could it be superior? Mark says himself it's made by the same people, so the only difference is a lack of inspection and higher power extraction parts.
Assuming they are made by the same people in the exact same way, than you're right it couldn't be superior.
That said, if it was made by the same people and "the only difference is lack of inspection" than LaRue bolts would fail at the same rate as the mil-spec bolts...and so yes Mark would be equally (albeit technically) correct in stating that they're manufactured to mil-spec since most mil-spec bolts don't undergo the testing either.
If you can look at yourself in the mirror than who cares what Mark or anyone says, but I don't see the reason for starting this thread other than to perpetuate a silly argument.
olds442tyguy
01-23-09, 19:06
When did I say that you said LaRue was junk? The whole point of your posts was to say/imply/argue that the LaRue was inferior to other selections. You didn't SAY it was junk, you only implied it throughout
Isn't that a little contradictory? I never implied Larue bolts have higher failure rates, I said they aren't Mil Spec.
Assuming they are made by the same people in the exact same way, than you're right it couldn't be superior.
That said, if it was made by the same people and "the only difference is lack of inspection" than LaRue bolts would fail at the same rate as the mil-spec bolts...and so yes Mark would be equally (albeit technically) correct in stating that they're mil-spec since most mil-spec bolts don't undergo the testing either.
Mil Spec is not batch testing. By testing, they can make sure the bolts are good to go right from the factory as per their specs. It doesn't mean a bolt won't fail, it just means their quality inspection proved the bolt was not in error when it left.
As per your other comment, if it's not a technical discussion and you would like to insult me, please do so via private message.
Gutshot John
01-23-09, 19:09
Isn't that a little contradictory? I never implied Larue bolts have higher failure rates, I said they aren't Mil Spec.
I don't think you're the sole judge of what is implied. This is a lesson I've had to learn too. You definitely implied it, perhaps you didn't mean to, but the implication is nonetheless there.
Mil Spec is not batch testing. By testing, they can make sure the bolts are good to go right from the factory as per their specs. It doesn't mean a bolt won't fail, it just means their quality inspection proved the bolt was not in error when it left.
Once again MOST bolts, even those that are mil-spec and marked "MP" don't actually undergo the test.
As per your other comment, if it's not a technical discussion and you would like to insult me, please do so via private message.
When did myself or anyone insult you?
Nathan_Bell
01-23-09, 19:09
perpetuate a silly argument.
Which is something that you would recognize a mile away.
GJ, if you were locked in your bathroom by your lonesome, you would end up arguing with your mirror in less than an hour.
Gutshot John
01-23-09, 19:15
Which is something that you would recognize a mile away.
GJ, if you were locked in your bathroom by your lonesome, you would end up arguing with your mirror in less than an hour.
You're of course free to put me on ignore.
Do you have anything relevant or insightful to add? or did you just want to take a lame shot?
Do you have anything relevant or insightful to add?
There isn't one insightful thing in this whole damn thread, and it appears that the lot of you are dragging TOS animosity and bullshit over here. Hopefully a moderator will be along to lock this down soon enough.
Gutshot John
01-23-09, 19:25
There isn't one insightful thing in this whole damn thread, and it appears that the lot of you are dragging TOS animosity and bullshit over here.
Actually I don't go to TOS, nor do I post there, and in fact I wouldn't have even done so had it not been brought up.
I have no animosity for them, nor do I care about the bullshit they engage in.
I simply tried to point out what I had learned in my Caputo class. If that's neither relevant nor insightful, then I'll cease.
John_Wayne777
01-23-09, 19:28
Fellas, this isn't my forum so I am reluctant to jump in....
Nevertheless, let's keep the bickering to a minimum over here, ok? It looks like a big enough storm is a-brewin' without having a fight amongst ourselves.
Only technically. Even if not strictly "mil-spec" the reality is that the LaRue BCG is probably of superior quality.
Any guess as to how many bolts that are marked "MP" aren't actually MPI tested? MOST iirc yet they seem to perform just fine. The mark is almost meaningless.
As for the extractor springs and insert, I believe that these depend on the configuration of AR that you're using. Moreover replacing them costs all of what? $10?
Until there are reports of LaRue bolts failing more than "mil-spec" bolts I'm a little underwhelmed by your argument.
Honestly, I'd like to see if Dean Caputo can offer up some better information.
If Paul @ Bravo Company says that all his bolts marked MP are....I'd take that to the bank....
Sounds like someone decided to drag their axe and their grinder from one site to another. :rolleyes:
John_Wayne777
01-23-09, 19:32
Message too short.
olds442tyguy
01-23-09, 19:40
Maybe it was bad judgment to post that here. My apologies and I welcome the mods doing what ever they please with this topic.
I think we can close this.
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