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rob_s
01-26-09, 06:14
Any chance of getting a medical/EMT/whatever section added to the tactics and training area?

With our recent TF refugees it would seem to me that we have quite a few qualified contributors.

Kaos
01-26-09, 06:20
Could be useful info for sure. I dump over 3-400 in med kit crap a year when Dec 31st comes and I realize I have all kinds of flex spending dough left over....a lot of it I don't know how to use properly.

ST911
01-26-09, 10:33
Any chance of getting a medical/EMT/whatever section added to the tactics and training area? With our recent TF refugees it would seem to me that we have quite a few qualified contributors.

I'm in.

RogerinTPA
01-26-09, 10:53
Having medical professionals giving first aid tips and IFAK instruction would be a great addition.

rob_s
01-26-09, 10:56
I admit, my interest in purely selfish right now as I'm looking to put together some gear and would like a centralized place to ask about it.

Plus, since it would be a new section, nobody can post "use the search, dumbass"!

:D

Gutshot John
01-26-09, 11:11
I think this is a great idea. I would however caution the board admins/owners to check with their lawyers and determine what limits/caveats might be made. I don't want either the board, nor contributors to such a forum to incur liability because someone read something here and then ****ed someone up.

A little while ago I was trying to get a "gunfight" medicine class together through GORGRP, I had some interest though not enough to justify a class.

I will contact them again as a friend is head of their training department if people are interested in such a class. If you are interested please let me know. They are fully vetted and have a medical director that would provide legal protections for students so long as they kept within the curriculum. You'd also get a complete IFAK-type kit with the same gear you use in class.

This is critical information for this lifestyle.

DocGKR
01-26-09, 14:04
It is a good idea. You might ask RESQDOC (www.gorgrp.com) to moderate, as he just left TF and is a well known SME and Moderator on this topic. DrJSW would be another TF refugee that could also Moderate...

DrMark
01-26-09, 17:47
With our recent TF refugees it would seem to me that we have quite a few qualified contributors.

What is TF, and why is it generating refugees?

rob_s
01-26-09, 17:50
Tactical Forums, and you'd have to ask them.

SpartanArms
01-26-09, 18:17
A big +10 for this idea. Definitely the only thing this site is lacking. Have been perusing the Med section over at Tactical Response forums, but I could do without some of the asshattery that takes place over there. It would be great if we could get some ER Docs and EMTs to contribute to a Med Section here on M4Carbine.:D

R1pper
01-26-09, 19:08
I like this idea. My state requires that all LE are first responder certified, and let me tell you it has been some of the most used specialized training Ive had.

-DM-

SeriousStudent
01-26-09, 19:25
I would greet the new section very eagerly. I was a paramedic over two decades ago, so my skills are pretty out of date. I have been trying to find the time to do a WEMT class, and start the training cycle over again.

This is another great idea, Rob. Thanks for thinking of it! :)

K.L. Davis
01-26-09, 22:05
This is an outstanding idea...

HowardCohodas
01-26-09, 22:23
Very timely. Tomorrow I will be at the police station surrounded by 16 LEOs as the only civilian in the Certified First Medical Responder course.

Add me to those interested in such a section.

Voodoochild
01-27-09, 01:45
I don't see a problem with it and with 2 Docs on here and some EMT folks as well it would be a good addition.

Gutshot John
01-27-09, 11:59
It would be very worthwhile. If you haven't taken BLS/CPR you definitely should. I'd consider first-responder as well. A short EMT-B(asic) program at a local community college (if you offer to volunteer with the local fire dept. they might even pay your tuition). The training and experience gleaned from 1 8-hour shift a week could yield huge dividends down the road especially if you can take a PHTLS (Pre-Hospital Trauma Life Support) class which is not only a medical class, but includes some amount of tactical information as well.

I'd split up self-aid from buddy-aid techniques as you won't be suing yourself. I hate to harp on this, but people need to consider it just as they need to consider the implications of carrying a firearm.

Military medics have liability protection from the government (even if they totally screw up) so their scope of practice can be much broader than civilian medics. In short most lay people (within reach of 911) who might read the board really have no business attempting advanced lifesaving techniques on another unless there is no other option but death.

Likewise it should contain information on legal protections and educate people about tort law and potential consequences of their actions. It's somewhat akin to being involved in a shooting...and even under the best of circumstances can be an expensive proposition...even (and especially) for trained professionals.

bkb0000
01-27-09, 12:24
i dont see how EM discussion could generate too much more liability than tactics training.. i mean, we often discuss the best ways to KILL people here, afterall.

Gutshot John
01-27-09, 12:39
i dont see how EM discussion could generate too much more liability than tactics training.. i mean, we often discuss the best ways to KILL people here, afterall.

The discussion itself isn't the issue. If someone actually uses it on someone and then ends up causing harm, he might say as a legal defense "well I read it on m4carbine..." Before you know it, the board and any medical professional who offered advice is either deposed or becomes co-respondent in a suit.

I'm not saying it's inevitable but good samaritan protections are being continually eroded by a litigious society.

Medical personnel get extensive training on medical torts and if people are going to learn those techniques, than they must also be informed of the potential liability. Even if it works out in your favor, it still might cost you thousands of dollars.

rob_s
01-27-09, 12:43
The same thing could be said about most of what is discussed here though, so it's not unique to medical issues.

"M4carbine told me that shotguns were outdated for home defense, so it's not my fault I shot my neighbor through the wall with a 5.56".

(not saying any of the above is an accurate statement, just using it to illustrate the point)

I'd hate to see a potentially informative part of the site, that could draw in more members (and more importantly, more qualified members), bet mired in legal worries.

HowardCohodas
01-27-09, 12:47
Much of the tort concern can be alleviated by citing a competent reference for recommendations posted here.

Complete tort concern can not be eliminated. If you shoot someone in SD or you help someone in an emergency, you are exposing yourself to tort law.

You must decide for yourself, but for me, I cannot stand by if I can be of service, even if it brings me injustice. That's one of the reasons I am currently taking a course to become a Certified First Medical Responder.

Post a note when the section is available. I will contribute where I am able.

buzz_knox
01-27-09, 12:56
I believe such a forum would add considerable value. We tend to focus on the firearms aspect of training, even though we are far more likely to need medical training in our day to day lives.

Gutshot John
01-27-09, 13:07
The same thing could be said about most of what is discussed here though, so it's not unique to medical issues.

"M4carbine told me that shotguns were outdated for home defense, so it's not my fault I shot my neighbor through the wall with a 5.56".


I agree, it's VERY informative and should be done, but part of that information process is understanding the consequences if you f*(k up. I don't think legal issues should stop this, I just think it needs to be included in the whole knowledge base. It ain't sexy, but it is important. Please believe me when I say that I genuinely see the need and support the creation of such a forum. But it's no substitute for formal training. If you shoot, you need medical training...period.

FirstI unlike home defense, in EMS there are groups of medical professionals that establish protocols and other standards of care. Paramedics for instance don't perform medicine themselves, they work under the "command" of a Doctor even if not in direct contact. "Command" in EMS means that he's given the paramedic authority to practice emergency medicine under his license. Even if the Paramedic acts in a manner consistent with these standards/protocols he can still be sued. If there is any deviation from those standards, then he will be held liable.

Second these medical standards vary from state-to-state and hospital to hospital. So what I may view as standard practice in PA, might be viewed as archaic or even too aggressive in California.

Lastly In the shooting scenario you mentioned it's your life in jeopardy, whereas in EMS it's a patient's life that's in jeopardy. I know it seems like an arbitrary distinction, but it only seems that way.

If it's self-aid that we're discussing than we can be much more aggressive in discussing techniques. When you start practicing on another caution is required. "Good Samaritans" meaning people without any training who through the best of intentions kill someone are given more liability protection than a medical professional and they can and are sued...often.

rob_s
01-27-09, 13:16
From my own standpoint, self aid is WAY more interesting to me than helping others outside my immediate family. There are very few scenarios, if any, where I can see myself rendering aid to someone I don't now well enough to know that they aren't going to sue me.

ST911
01-27-09, 13:21
I agree, it's informative and should be done, but part of that information process is understanding the consequences if you f*(k up. I don't think legal issues should stop this, I just think it needs to be included in the whole knowledge base. It ain't sexy, but it is important. Please believe me when I say that I genuinely see the need and support the creation of such a forum.

John- I understand and appreciate your concerns, but I think you're overthinking the issue a bit. As noted by others, one can expose themselves to liability just as readily through discussion of legal matters, tactics, and the like as they can whether or not to place which kind of TK, why relieving a ptx should be BLS, or what IFAK to carry and how to load it.

Look at the better sites with TEMS/EMS/etc forums and you'll find that they've adequately address issues with good moderators, good contributors, and an eye on what you've referenced.

Gutshot John
01-27-09, 13:32
Getting off the topic at hand...I apologize.

People should be interested and should get training.

Boomer10
01-27-09, 16:46
I'm very interested in this type of section on the board. I'm currently signed up for a course offered locally that is going to go over the basics and a limited amount of trauma info. I'm also looking to get as much info as possible (taking courses off base and on base). I'll admit, my liklihood of needing any of this info is slim (except for the occasional boo-boos at the gun club ;)), but it'd be nice to have.

RogerinTPA
01-27-09, 17:02
Anyone have a link or two available for courses, by state, that stresses combat first aid/self aid?

Batt 57
01-27-09, 22:23
Count me in... I kinda of put a bug in Rob's ear this weekend for the section.

I think we have a number of EMS types here that could contribute and make for some interesting discussion.

HowardCohodas
01-27-09, 22:29
If we have analyzed this enough, how do we get started?

Gutshot John
01-28-09, 08:25
In addition to First-Aid Skills/Gear, would it make sense to include "Survival Skills" and/or "Field Craft" under a heading?

Sort of like AR General, AR Technical etc...

rob_s
01-28-09, 09:01
In addition to First-Aid Skills/Gear, would it make sense to include "Survival Skills" and/or "Field Craft" under a heading?

Sort of like AR General, AR Technical etc...

I think so. I could see it extending to be it's own sub-section, with self-aid, buddy-aid, wilderness survival, urban survival, etc. all being headings. I'd personally prefer it not become a whole "Armageddon" section though.

RogerinTPA
01-28-09, 09:19
In addition to First-Aid Skills/Gear, would it make sense to include "Survival Skills" and/or "Field Craft" under a heading?

Sort of like AR General, AR Technical etc...

Those are also great ideas. There's got to be a ton of info from our members on those subjects. I totally agree with Rob_S about not turning this into an Armageddon thing.

Gutshot John
01-28-09, 09:38
I'd personally prefer it not become a whole "Armageddon" section though.

I completely agree. Let's keep it practical and focused. I'm sure the appropriate mods can determine how to achieve that.

LOKNLOD
01-28-09, 09:44
I think so. I could see it extending to be it's own sub-section, with self-aid, buddy-aid, wilderness survival, urban survival, etc. all being headings. I'd personally prefer it not become a whole "Armageddon" section though.

I agree...avoid the "survival" term as it drags in the tin-foilers. Those forums can be interesting and there's good info to be gleaned here and there, but it's not cohesive with the M4C mission or format.

"First Aid and Practical Sustainment" forum or something like that.

stoicdoc
01-28-09, 11:24
I am a Doc/Medic with 15 years military Airborne and Airborne Infantry. Six deployments and 16 civilian experience. I also teach for the Army as well the civilian side. If they start it up I would love help out and share my knowledge and experience. I do not claim to know everything but I am well versed and I have several sources at my disposal if I dont know the answer.
What do we have to do in order to start it up?

Iraq Ninja
01-28-09, 13:10
Carrying a med kit with your weapons, be it to the range or to Taco Bell, is a realization that dangerous things come out of a gun besides loud noises and hot gas.

I agree, no Armageddon. Keep it to-> Armor, Get It On :)

thopkins22
01-28-09, 13:58
Carrying a med kit with your weapons, be it to the range or to Taco Bell, is a realization that dangerous things come out of a gun besides loud noises and hot gas.

You convinced me last week that I need to put together a proper med kit for my range bag, but a dedicated section on the forum dealing with A)What needs to go in it and B)Some basics on usage sounds like a great idea.

My Boy Scout first aid badge didn't exactly deal with trauma, much less gunshot trauma. We spend so much time/money/training dealing with how to send bullets downrange, and almost none dealing with what to do when we're on the losing end(or just royally screw up and shoot ourselves)...that it seems like a no-brainer to me.

rob_s
02-04-09, 09:38
Any action or thoughts on this from mods/staff?

Deputy91
02-04-09, 11:32
I am interested.

My current full time employment is as a Deputy Sheriff, but I still work in the NYC 911 system as a Paramedic (17 years EMS experience Critical Care Transport and 911).

I am certified as a EMT-T Tactical Paramedic (Federal Protective Service) among other certs.

I am also a NYS DOH CIC (EMS Instructor) AHA ACLS, PALS and BCLS/CPR Instructor.

Remember certs are one thing, experience is another but I feel I can contribute. Liability is always a concern but checking with local guidelines is always a good place to start.

The biggest thing I stress when teaching police recruits is that this info is most important if your partner or family member needs it. Yeah yeah we are there to help the public, but we want to go home at the end of our tour in the same or better condition than when we started it.

-Mike.

Gentoo
02-10-09, 19:57
Excellent idea.

fireftrjef
02-10-09, 20:36
I'm 100% for it as well.

As a current paramedic student, I would like to learn some things from these other more seasoned medics. I would even like to contribute what I've learned and seen to others.

HowardCohodas
02-10-09, 23:23
We cant seem to find the go button to get this started.

Batt 57
02-11-09, 19:24
Grant???

VA_Dinger
02-12-09, 01:25
FYI: The decision has been made by the M4c Mods/Staff to go ahead with this forum. Just give us a week or so to get the ball rolling.

HowardCohodas
02-12-09, 01:45
Thank you very much.

Rotor Talker
02-12-09, 10:09
Thank you, Mods

Also very interested in the topic.

Currently 31 years as an Emergency Medical technician, spent 6 as a Paramedic, 10 as instructor. Now am a Communications Specialist for Lifeline Critical Care Transport serving all of Indiana.

Be glad to help in any way.

Thanks again

Bob

g5m
02-12-09, 14:23
Please be sure to 'Sticky' any disclaimers you feel necessary.

Doc Solo
02-14-09, 22:16
Thanks for opening up another venue for discussing medicine in this type of setting, anything I can learn to keep me or my team safe will be much appreciated.

Looking forward to the learning.

VA_Dinger
02-15-09, 09:13
What should be the title of the forum sub-section?

"Emergency Medicine/EMT"
"EMT"?

I have no idea so suggestions would be appreciated.

Rotor Talker
02-15-09, 09:35
I would suggest " Emergency Medical Section" this way it would cover a number of topics related to the subject. It would cover equipment, training classes, skills and injury management.

Intentional shootings are obvious, accidental shootings are also serious, however it's been my experience that at Shooting Events, that most injuries are caused by splatter, or falls scraping knees, blisters, etc.

Not to discount the seriousness of events such as bee stings which can easily be fatal. A title that covers the spectrum would be good, either way, this is just my .02

Thanks again for considering this.

Bob

rob_s
02-15-09, 09:53
Dinger, will this be one room, or a group of rooms? Reason I ask is that the title(s) could be different depending on this. I don't see a need, as of now, for anything more than a single room. I think that "medicine" should be avoided in the title, but can't really articulate why right now. It just "feels" wrong. Lightfighter calls theirs "Tactical Medicine", for whatever that's worth.

Also, what specific topics are expected to be covered? I'd like to see the new section avoid things like "BOBs" and "SHTF" type discussions, and stick to critical care, although as Rotor Talker mentions there should probably be room to cover/discuss boo-boos as well since that's the kind of thing that's much more likely to happen. Going forward, if the idea takes off, I could see the potential for a "critical care" section dealing with life-threatening injuries and a "non-critical care" section dealing with splinters, splatter, falls, sprains, bee stings, etc.

My personal primary interest right now, and my reason for asking for the new section, was strictly for critical care scenarios.

I'd love to see some of our more knowledgeable members in these sections start up threads on IFAK/BOK requirements, as well as comparisons of the relative merits of various similar-use items across various brands (Oales vs. Israeli, Asherman vs. Bolin, etc.). Hell, I could even use recommendation on boo-boo kits to keep in the car and on the range.

Joe_Friday
02-15-09, 10:01
"HELP!!! I Just Shot Myself In The Foot!" :p

In all seriousness though, I think this is a great idea and that people here will really learn (could be good or bad, hopefully good) from other members that are in Emergency Medicine. If you are going to have a forum area dedicated to emergency and non-emergency medicine, I would name it accordingly though. Maybe something like "Medical Skills and Resources" as the name would be all encompassing.

Just my .02 cents though.

Sorry Rob, I did not see your post on not using the word "medical/medicine". But for the intended purpose of the area I cannot think of a different word right now. (not enough caffeine yet LOL)

QuietShootr
02-15-09, 10:11
I'm in.

+1000

LOKNLOD
02-15-09, 10:51
If a single forum, something like "First Aid and Trauma Management". `

If sub-forums, one for Medical Equipment, one for non-critical first-aid-type care (boo-boos), and one for cricitical emergency care (major owies).

Honestly I think you'll have to have somewhere to capture "what kind of kit for my BOB" type questions because those will come one way or another. At least being able to capture those in the equipment forum will keep it from diluting the more criticial info on techniques.

RogerinTPA
02-15-09, 10:54
How about "Combat Self Aid" or "Gunshot Life Saving Techniques" or "Surviving a Gunshot Wound"

rob_s
02-15-09, 10:54
Honestly I think you'll have to have somewhere to capture "what kind of kit for my BOB" type questions because those will come one way or another. At least being able to capture those in the equipment forum will keep it from diluting the more criticial info on techniques.

Kit for a BOB is one thing, starting down the paranoid fantasy lane is what we can hopefully avoid. There is a line there that I find to be bright neon green and flashing, so it should be easy not to cross it. :D

VA_Dinger
02-15-09, 11:04
We are planning on just one forum sub-section to cover these topics.

**With plenty of disclaimers tacked at the top to protect the forum.**

Doc Solo
02-15-09, 16:49
One forum is plenty for sure.

As far as a name, pick something that covers the full spectrum of keeping effective in difficult conditions. From trauma to boo-boos, prevention, run of the mill ailments. I treat a lot more 'minor' stuff than I do serious injuries, although we get those too.

Sick Call and Trauma ?

Keeping the fighter in the Fight?

Health and Safety?

Care Under Fire, and Beyond?

Tactical Field Care?

Fit to Fight? (could incorporate a lot of health related issues, prevention can't be over emphasized)

Good luck with it, I'm sure either way, with good moderation it will be a useful addition to the forum. I'll throw another nomination in the ring for ResQDoc, he may not be availabel 24/7 but thats because he is usually out in the bush doing the stuff as opposed to writing about it and maintaining a high profile.

Daveo
02-15-09, 17:53
I like "First Aid and Trauma Management".

Boomer10
02-15-09, 17:58
Tactical Field Care?


This would be my vote. I'm glad the staff has gotten this rolling.

Gutshot John
02-16-09, 07:24
Let's avoid the whole "tactical" moniker. The current term-of-art is "Operational Medicine" but that conjures up images of remote clinics and professional medics.

Techniques should be as valid for the hunter/camper/outdoorsman as well as tactical shooting. I don't think we need to cover things like "the crud" since everyone here knows where to buy decongestants.

I vote "Traumatic First Aid and Wilderness Survival" or more simply "Field First Aid". It should focus on "first aid" (which implies stabilizing an emergent condition) instead of "medicine" (which implies definitive treatment).

This forum should be grounded in reality using practical applications, not TEOTWAWKI preparation.

LOKNLOD
02-16-09, 08:39
I vote "Traumatic First Aid and Wilderness Survival" or more simply "Field First Aid". It should focus on "first aid" (which implies stabilizing an emergent condition) instead of "medicine" (which implies definitive treatment).

This forum should be grounded in reality using practical applications, not TEOTWAWKI preparation.


"Field First Aid". I like that.

stoicdoc
02-16-09, 10:37
What about Basic Trauma Management? Field First Aid sounds like what I learned in a basic first aid class in Cub Scouts, which was band aids and ace wraps. From what I have read above we are talking about basic to moderate trauma management, with out getting into advanced or definitive care. We are also talking about "classes" that the "Lay Person" can perform. Covering areas of Basic Patient Assessment, Extremity Hemorrhage Control, Thoracic Trauma (Chest Sealers), Airway Stabilization, Head and Neck Injuries, Abdominal Wounds and Non-Penetrating Extremity Trauma (Fractures Open/Closed), Basic Dislocation Management, Etc.) and Basic Shock Management.
There are several trauma courses and skill set in the Army, courses that we can use as a basis. The Army's "Tactical Combat Causality Care (TC3), that is give to all Combat Life Savers (minus I.V.'s and Needle Chest Decompression), International Trauma Life Support (used to be called BTLS), just to name a couple. I know we are trying to get away from the "Tactical", but they are a good foundation to start from . When I give a Basic Trauma Management Classes this is how it is structured.

Basic Patient Assessment
Extremity Hemorrhage Control
Thoracic Trauma (Chest Sealers)
Airway Stabilization
Head and Neck Injuries
Abdominal Wounds Management
Non-Penetrating Extremity Trauma
Basic Shock Management
Additional Tips and Tricks

The one thing that should be made clear is that all treatment should cover the individual as regards to "Good Samaritan Laws". I am primary a Army Combat Medic and also a Civilian EMS provider, I am constantly having to switch between the rules. Which skill level can I work on this patient with? No one wants to be sued or end up in jail for performing skills that MAY prolong someones life until definitive treatment is reached but put their life and money in jeopardy, but render assistance until that definitive treatment is reached.

One thing that should not be covered (again in my opinion) is Homeostatic Agents. I know that they are the "new and cool thing", but that would be crossing the line if we are rendering assistance to another person, violate Good Samaritan Laws. Where Kerlix Gauze and a dressing or ACE Wrap with direct pressure will do the same thing and will be less problematic for the receiving Medical Treatment Facility.

Again this is just my two cents of what I normally do, but I can be cut down or expanded as the senior members/moderators see fit.

K.L. Davis
02-16-09, 13:46
My $0.02... There are really two different ideas here:

Trauma medicine, that which focuses on the stabilize and transport... golden hour, stop the bleeding, open the airway, treat for shock and move.

Wilderness medicine, that which focuses on long term care and treatment when there is no professional medical care available, natural prevention and treatment, disease diagnosis, infection treatment and rehabilitation.

Just saying... that really even though they are both field medicine, it is like saying NHRA and Baja are both motor sports.

Jay Cunningham
02-16-09, 13:48
My $.02 is that the discussion should focus on first response to gunshot wounds, cuts and punctures.

NinjaMedic
02-16-09, 14:13
In my mind it would be difficult to focus on the longer-term care aspects that wilderness medicine can involve. I believe that this sub-forum should focus on the initial life saving skills and equipment that is going to protect you, your family, and your partner in the real world. If you and your partner succesfully engage a threat but one of you is hit and subsequently exanguinates from a compressible hemorhage site you still are not meeting your responsibility to your family and yourself to return home in the morning. I believe that it should rely on evidence based medicine and research, we shouldnt choose a tourniquet because it is the coolest design, we should choose the one that performs the best based on objective tests. Is it a good idea to keep your only aid kit in the trunk of your patrol vehicle? is it a better Idea to have a small ziplock baggie with a coule of bandages and tourniquets just inside the door that you can access under fire or if disabled. We need to approach this from the practical view that most of us are using the information for. If we we providing medical care in-theatre we re most likely going to already have the info and skills that we need by the organizations that have deployed us. This should be focused on patrol officers, tactical members, civilian shooters etc. That are going to happen upon a bad wreck, be involved in a shooting, be struck with a projectile from an ND at the range (or from the bak seat of your vehicle when a novice shooter is "playing" with your firearm). By and large almost everyone here will have good ALS care to their side in under 30 minutes. We need to focus on how to sustain a viable pt for that long, prevent further injury (traumatic, hypoxic, psycological, whatever), and prevent others from taking a bad situation and making it worse. Sorry for the rant that is just my vision of it.

Initial Care of the Ill and Injured maybe?

Initial Traumatic Injury Management?

HowardCohodas
02-16-09, 14:28
Just thinking out loud. We should be careful not to overly manage this effort but rather let it grow organically as interest and competent contributors permit it. This is, of course, subject to carefully sticking within the constraints so that our forum does not get in trouble.

Micromanagement by my government or my forum is anathema to me. I would think we can be successful with simple and minimal rules.

I am currently in training for my certification as an Emergency Medical Responder.

Gutshot John
02-16-09, 14:42
I think people are getting lost in the difference between "medicine" and "first aid". "Wilderness" does not imply long-term "care" except as a result of extended evacuation. Everything about the forum topic assumes eventual access to EMS or a hospital.

I'd also argue that "real world" scenarios include hunting accidents and other trauma where definitive care isn't readily available in the wilderness. Many of us are sportsmen and I think many can benefit from that as well. I live in a major metropolitan area, but you don't have to walk more than an hour in some directions before finding yourself deep in the woods.

Including various survival skills should not detract from practical first aid as the focus.

A_Med
02-17-09, 23:03
Well I'm new here but this sounds great to me as well. I'm a former Army Medic 1986-1994. Worked EMS in Virginia for a few years. Cardiac Surgery Critical Care Nurse for about 10 years and now in Cardiac Surgery Research. My wife is Neonatal ICU Nurse as well. I've met or know 1 or 2 folks on here. Shot IPSC with GotM4 in the past. If the Templar on here is the same Templar from TOS then I know him from the local club as well. Look forward to participating.

Angel

VA_Dinger
02-18-09, 18:15
This forum should be up and running shortly.

Kevin_B is now working with our Admin to finish it up.

This forum sub-section should be a great addition to M4c.

rob_s
03-03-09, 07:04
Just wondering if there's an ETA on this. I have a couple of things I'm holding off posting in other sections because I think the new area will be more appropriate.

Thanks guys.

KevinB
03-03-09, 14:46
up and running...

K.L. Davis
03-08-09, 21:38
The new forum is part of This New Section (https://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=100).