Glock vs. M&P

[PLCedeno]

Like many of us Glock was the next step after the 1911 and have gotten used to the platform. The S&W M&P however is intriguing. Its made in the USA and it feels perfect in the hand. However, having fired the M&P this weekend i must say that for me the perfect gun would be the M&P with the Glock trigger.

[markm]

Shit! That's the first time I've ever read anyone wanting the glock trigger on another platform. :eek:

[Jack_Stroker]

I don't mind the Glock trigger. It isn't as bad as people make it out to be. However as you said, I wouldn't want it on another gun. I'd like the 1911 trigger on a variety of weapons because it is flat out the best trigger on any semi-automatic handgun in my opinion.

[madisonsfinest]

Shot an xd 45 this last weekend with my glock 22, and I love my glock 22. Feel is great! I would rather have the xd 45's trigger though. Man it was nice, felt a little top heavy but the trigger was very nice imho.

[d90king]

For me I like the way the M&P fits my hand better than a Glock. I am however a 1911 shooter and I am sure that has a lot to do with it.

[POF.Ops]

I'm really happy with my box stock 5" M&P .45. I only wish it was the FDE version. I'm shocked that someone with a Glock, any Glock would say they are impressed with the M&P. Glock people like Glocks because they are Glocks and Glocks are superior to all other handguns because they are Glocks. Period.

[Jack_Stroker]

I'm really happy with my box stock 5" M&P .45. I only wish it was the FDE version. I'm shocked that someone with a Glock, any Glock would say they are impressed with the M&P. Glock people like Glocks because they are Glocks and Glocks are superior to all other handguns because they are Glocks. Period.

I like Glocks but I prefer 1911's.

[POF.Ops]

Me too but I wish I had a GLOCK. If I had a GLOCK I would shoot a million rounds through it and I would replace all the parts in it because you can do that with a GLOCK. If I had a GLOCK it would either be a 9mm or .40 S&W but preferably a 9mm. I wish I could afford a GLOCK. I like GLOCKS because they are cool and they are GLOCKS and GLOCKS are superior to all other handguns because they are GLOCKS. There's a reason GLOCKS are GLOCKS and everyone knows GLOCKS are the best. Period.

[Gutshot John]

I shoot Glocks and I like Glocks, but I don't think that Glocks are the end-all be-all solution for everyone. It's just what I shoot best.

I liked the M&P .45, but preferences made me refocus on the glock. I prefer the stock M&P trigger to the stock G17 trigger. The 3.5# remains my favorite however.

Like Glocks or hate them, they've become something of a standard by which all other comparisons are made.

The M&P is one of the most well-thought out and executed pistol designs since...well since the Glock. In another 20 years, it might easily supplant Glock, and if it does I'll be happy to commit to the switch.

I've made the comparison before that Glock is to PC what the M&P is to Mac. Both sides have their kool-aid drinkers.

[madisonsfinest]

Well the only glock I own is my duty firearm. We have to use the NY style trigger so I believe that is an 8lb trigger pull. I wild prefer more like a 5 lb trigger pull which may be the reason I loved the trigger on the Springfield XD 45. I did get to shoot the M&P AR which was nice

[sigmundsauer]

The only trigger system I prefer more than the standard Glock trigger is HK's LEM, and not because it's necessarily any more shootable. I do believe it is inherently safer, though.

If S&W would just come out with a G19-sized M&P I would be more excited about them. Otherwise they are promising pistols. The full size is too big for my CCW tastes, and the compact, too small.

Tim

[Palmguy]

The only trigger system I prefer more than the standard Glock trigger is HK's LEM, and not because it's necessarily any more shootable. I do believe it is inherently safer, though.

If S&W would just come out with a G19-sized M&P I would be more excited about them. Otherwise they are promising pistols. The full size is too big for my CCW tastes, and the compact, too small.

Tim

I don't have a G19 on hand anymore, but the M&P45c is damn similar in size to a G19 and carries the same (if a tad heavier, not much though) for me.

[M&P45]

When I first got my hadgun license I wanted a Glock 17 or 19 in the worst way. A good friend brought a bunch of pistols to the range for me to try out before I made my first purchase. I started out with several of his .22's. Eventually I got to try out the G17 and was very disappointed with how it felt in my hand and my performance with the it. I then tried his early P228. The Sig felt much better in my hand and it showed in my target. I later bought an '89 vintage P226 that I love and compete with in USPSA production class.

Soon I became enamored with the idea of a high capacity .45 auto. I found a range that had a Glock 21 that I could try. Again the Glock and I just didn't mesh. I really can't put a finger on it other than it just doesn't point naturally for me. I then started looking at 1911's but all of the one's I liked were out of my price range...

I started to read some favorable things about the M&P 45 so I went in search of one to try. As soon as I picked one up at the range I knew I was on the right track. The first 10 rounds at 15 yards made a nice ragged hole in the center if the target. POA/POI was dead on. Recoil felt very mild and follow-up shots were very quick.

I went out the next day and bought one with a manual safety and no mag disconnect. The trigger was a little heavy and gritty but it wore in quite nicely after a couple of hundred rounds. It now has just under 5,000 trouble free rounds down the pipe in just over one year. I have not experienced a single failure of any kind with my M&P 45 and the accuracy is amazing for what is mostly a stock firearm. The only thing I changed were the sights. I added a Dawsen F/O front and Warren Tactical rear sight. I have shot steel plate matches with it like this and I shoot faster with the M&P than with my beloved Sig. I think the DA first shot of the Sig is the culprit... I am currently looking at the M&P Pro to shoot in place of the Sig in USPSA Production class. If they ever add major power factor to production class I will be shooting the M&P 45.

I think what it comes down to is that not every design works for every person. The M&P has the advantage of being easily adaptable to different hand sizes. I think that is one of the major reasons that the law enforcement community have started to embrace it. I do have to admit that every time I see a Glock 36 in a dealers case I want to try one. There is a mystique about the Glock that makes me want to keep trying....

[Renegade]

Shit! That's the first time I've ever read anyone wanting the glock trigger on another platform. :eek:

That tells you how bad the M&P trigger is. I too like the feel of the M&P, but find the trigger horrible. I have tried dozens of guns, that is how they designed it.

FWIW, Glocks are made in USA now too.

[ToddG]

FWIW, Glocks are made in USA now too.

Unless something has changed very recently, the frames are squirted in the USA and assembly is done in the USA but all the metal parts are all still made in Austria. There isn't enough US content to qualify for "made in the U.S." under federal regulations.

I prefer the feel of the M&P trigger but the Glock definitely has a vastly superior reset. I set my M&Ps up with the PC sear and MA trigger bar/spring, and I set up Glocks with the 3.5# connector and NY trigger spring ... the result is almost identical between the two.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Unless something has changed very recently, the frames are squirted in the USA and assembly is done in the USA but all the metal parts are all still made in Austria. There isn't enough US content to qualify for "made in the U.S." under federal regulations.

I prefer the feel of the M&P trigger but the Glock definitely has a vastly superior reset. I set my M&Ps up with the PC sear and MA trigger bar/spring, and I set up Glocks with the 3.5# connector and NY trigger spring ... the result is almost identical between the two.

I'm interested in this trigger setup, what would you estimate the trigger pull weight to be on both the M&P and Glock, Todd?

[DocGKR]

I currently am qualified on the 1911 and G19--I been carrying 1911's for 25 years and shoot them better than anything else; 9 mm Glocks are reliable and durable with ready parts availability world wide. However, I think an M&P w/Performance Center Sear is a worthy alternative to both 1911's and Glocks; I certainly like the M&P's I have and will likely switch over at some point when I get that option.

[ToddG]

I'm interested in this trigger setup, what would you estimate the trigger pull weight to be on both the M&P and Glock, Todd?

In the neighborhood of 6.5#. My M&Ps wore down to 5.75-6# after a few thousand rounds.

However, it's a fallacy to judge a trigger setup solely by its weight. A smooth/crisp 8# trigger with great reset is easier to shoot accurately at speed than a mushy 4# trigger.

[R Moran]

My 9mm and .40 M&P's had OK triggers from the factory, certainly nothing that would really prevent good shooting. The .45 was heavy but smooth, and I shot it as well as any of my 1911's.
I had the PC sear put in the 40 with a slight improvement. I thought about the MA spring(Todd's set up) but when I tried the .35/NY1 trigger in a G19, I didn't like it, so I went back to a standard 3.5 connector.

I shoot an 8# connector on my issued Glock(hopefully we can change that) and I shoot it fairly well(though yesterdays performance didn't show that).
I think sometimes we get to caught up in the "trigger", and not the rest of the gun. No doubt I kept shooting 1911's for so long because of the trigger, but with a little effort, you can overcome the slightly poorer trigger of the Glock and M&P, even the faint reset of the M&P, is not that big of a deal.

Of the two, I would go with the M&P, the triggers seem to vary on them, with the newer ones being much improved. You can always get the PC sear or a trigger job, or both.

Bob

[PLCedeno]

Shit! That's the first time I've ever read anyone wanting the glock trigger on another platform. :eek:

Relative to the M&P trigger. The 1911 trigger would of course be perfection itself.

[RogerinTPA]

I was going to go with the PC sear in my M&Ps, but after several thousand rounds through each, I've gotten quite used to the trigger and can live with it. I'll start replace them when they start breaking.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

However, it's a fallacy to judge a trigger setup solely by its weight. A smooth/crisp 8# trigger with great reset is easier to shoot accurately at speed than a mushy 4# trigger.

Now this is true. I have a Glock 17 with an light trigger and it is terribly mushy. P7 triggers are very light but have too much take-up (actually, this was on purpose according to the factory video).

[DacoRoman]

I prefer the feel of the M&P trigger but the Glock definitely has a vastly superior reset. I set my M&Ps up with the PC sear and MA trigger bar/spring, and I set up Glocks with the 3.5# connector and NY trigger spring ... the result is almost identical between the two.

utilizing those two set ups, how does the trigger reset, itself, compare between the two

[BH1]

If S&W would just come out with a G19-sized M&P I would be more excited about them. Otherwise they are promising pistols. The full size is too big for my CCW tastes, and the compact, too small.


I don't have a G19 on hand anymore, but the M&P45c is damn similar in size to a G19 and carries the same (if a tad heavier, not much though) for me.

Every time I make this mental comparison I end up asking myself if the ideal is a G19 sized pistol, would I be willing to give up the one I've practiced with that holds 15 rounds of lighter recoiling, less expensive ammo for the less familiar one that holds 8 rounds and a little more recoil?

Not a knock on the M&P45c at all. Can't say I wouldn't have one if the right deal came along. Capacity isn't the only factor just like size isn't the only factor. Just that it's not an open and shut case for me which one would go out the door with me in the morning and which one would stay home.

[ToddG]

utilizing those two set ups, how does the trigger reset, itself, compare between the two

They're almost identical. The Glock might be a little stronger of a push, but the difference doesn't translate into improved performance. As long as the trigger moves forward as fast as my trigger finger can move, it's as fast as it needs to be.


Every time I make this mental comparison I end up asking myself if the ideal is a G19 sized pistol, would I be willing to give up the one I've practiced with that holds 15 rounds of lighter recoiling, less expensive ammo for the less familiar one that holds 8 rounds and a little more recoil?

Ditto. Between a G19 and a M&P45C, I'd probably opt for the G19 as well. I don't feel the .45 is giving me a substantial improvement in so-called "stopping power" and having double the capacity makes me feel warm inside.

[Palmguy]

Every time I make this mental comparison I end up asking myself if the ideal is a G19 sized pistol, would I be willing to give up the one I've practiced with that holds 15 rounds of lighter recoiling, less expensive ammo for the less familiar one that holds 8 rounds and a little more recoil?

Not a knock on the M&P45c at all. Can't say I wouldn't have one if the right deal came along. Capacity isn't the only factor just like size isn't the only factor. Just that it's not an open and shut case for me which one would go out the door with me in the morning and which one would stay home.


Understood and agreed. That's why I traded one of my two 45c's away for a M&P9c...I hate the 9c with the flat floorplate but with the extended plate it's virtually the same length (on the frontstrap anyways) as a G19 or M&P45c. Larger capacity, cheaper ammo, and I shoot the 9mm much better than the 45 for some reason. The full size 9mm is a tad large for Florida carry for me and while I like the G19, I'm invested in M&Ps now and it's going to stay that way.

[BH1]

Palmguy, I've followed some of your sales ads here and another forum over the past couple months so I recognize you've had the good fortune to actually try all of the models being discussed. If you smell something it's probably jealousy coming through the keyboard :D I'm sure you'll come to the conclusion of what works best for your situation.

Everyone has wishes and prefernces. I've read several comments about I wish there was an M&P the same size as (insert model here). I'm no expert but after looking it over I'd bet S&W was very deliberate in the sizes they chose to bring to market. Rather than mathcing up head to head in a size comparison with the other manufacturer they went in between the existing models. If you want something the exact size of a G19 there is a fairly decent choice that's been available for years. However, if the G19 is a little larger than you prefer and maybe the G26 is a bit too small for your hand then the M&Pc rather sells itself. If the G19 is a bit small for your grip but you're not comfortable with the full size G17 then the M&Pfs is ready and waiting for you. Most are going to make their purchase on much more than just the frame size and in those cases a little larger or a little smaller isn't going to be a deal breaker.

[Palmguy]

Palmguy, I've followed some of your sales ads here and another forum over the past couple months so I recognize you've had the good fortune to actually try all of the models being discussed. If you smell something it's probably jealousy coming through the keyboard :D I'm sure you'll come to the conclusion of what works best for your situation.

Everyone has wishes and prefernces. I've read several comments about I wish there was an M&P the same size as (insert model here). I'm no expert but after looking it over I'd bet S&W was very deliberate in the sizes they chose to bring to market. Rather than mathcing up head to head in a size comparison with the other manufacturer they went in between the existing models. If you want something the exact size of a G19 there is a fairly decent choice that's been available for years. However, if the G19 is a little larger than you prefer and maybe the G26 is a bit too small for your hand then the M&Pc rather sells itself. If the G19 is a bit small for your grip but you're not comfortable with the full size G17 then the M&Pfs is ready and waiting for you. Most are going to make their purchase on much more than just the frame size and in those cases a little larger or a little smaller isn't going to be a deal breaker.

Not sure that it's good fortune as while I have had the opportunity to try a lot of things out, it's cost me a lot of money in the process as I take depreciation on the guns and holsters and everything :D I've been, unfortunately, much more of an "owner" than "shooter" in the last year. Finally got past that I think with a few heavy range sessions in short succession with my M&P9...absolutely enjoyable to just shoot for awhile and not worry about anything else. I'm done with the trading and the trying different things out in the search for the "holy grail"...in some ways I've found it in that the M&P fits me quite well and I shoot it pretty well, but in other ways I know that there is no such thing per se, it's the shooter not the gun.

Certainly agreed on the poin about decisions being deeper than size in and of itself. While there are different size options between say a Glock and an M&P, they are plentiful enough that you can likely find a gun that will work for you in the platform that you prefer.

[automan]

For me I like the way the M&P fits my hand better than a Glock. I am however a 1911 shooter and I am sure that has a lot to do with it.

+1 The M&P full size feels just as good, if not better than my 1911s. I carry in a MS VM-II as much as I do my 1911s.

[ra2bach]

Unless something has changed very recently, the frames are squirted in the USA and assembly is done in the USA but all the metal parts are all still made in Austria. There isn't enough US content to qualify for "made in the U.S." under federal regulations.

I prefer the feel of the M&P trigger but the Glock definitely has a vastly superior reset. I set my M&Ps up with the PC sear and MA trigger bar/spring, and I set up Glocks with the 3.5# connector and NY trigger spring ... the result is almost identical between the two.Todd, where can I get a MA trigger bar/spring?

[ToddG]

Todd, where can I get a MA trigger bar/spring?

The only source I know is S&W, and I've seen conflicting reports on whether or not they will sell them.