View Full Version : Springfield Pro
Guys I am down to these 3. I have a certain amount to spend on handguns and I am either going with a (HK45 and a DanWesson CBOB) or a Springfield Pro from the custom shop. Both options come to about the same money for me. Would you guys go with 2 guns over one or is the pro that much better than the other 2. I wish I could try them all out 1st and decide but thats out of the question. Thanks for any opinions.
I've had an SA Pro and I currently own an HK45.
The Pro is one of the best 1911 variants out of the box. I liked mine very much, and to tell you the truth, it's one of the few guns I sold but wished I'd kept. I did get a brand new Colt 6520 and 6920 with the money, so I can't complain.
For me it boiled down to my committment to the platform. The 1911 is one of the best fighting guns ever made, but it's a demanding mistress. It requires more maintenance and the attention of a savvy user to keep it in good running order. Other guns are far more forgiving. After spending time with it, I decided I just wasn't able to dedicate the time and patience required to keep it up. I sold it to a local SWAT cop, and I hope he has been using it to get effect. That's what it was built for.
The HK45 is kind of the love child of a Glock and 1911. It's durable and corrosion resistant, relatively light, you can operate it like a 1911, it can run on minimal maintenance, it's got a decent trigger, it's very accurate, and it's about half the price of a good 1911.
If you want the performance of the 1911, be ready to pay for it with money and time. You will be handsomely rewarded with a great pistol. I personally found those costs too high so I compromised with the HK45 instead. If I had $2000 to spend on pistol(s) today, I'd get two HK45's or a HK45 and a Hk45C. Or 4 M&P45s.....
Either way, you will be well armed.
QuickStrike
01-26-09, 15:37
I also regret selling my PRO, it was probably the highest quality firearm I've ever had.
Will probably get another one later this year. Won't sell it this time. :p
Depends on how much you like 1911's.
VooDoo6Actual
01-26-09, 16:21
The SA Pro IS the BEST out of box available.
I will be buried w/ mine.
If you want a 1911, then I'd go for the Professional - as long as you like everything about the Professional. Its a pistol that's built for a specific set of specifications - the FBI's. Those are not necessarily specs that will work for you. I've seen a lot of peopl gripe about this and that on the Pro as if the pistol was built for them. It wasn't and you know who isn't griping about the Pro? The FBI.
So if you like everything about the Professional, then you are getting an excellent pistol with a long and proven track record.
But if you would prefer a Pro with a few personal twists (like some people like slightly less sharp checkering), then Springfield will built it for YOU. It just won't be a Professional, but you might like it better because its built for you. The Springfield Custom Shop builds very nice 1911s. So do other shops - like Wilson, Nighthawk, Ed Brown, Les Baer, to name a few. They can be had for the same kind of money as a Professional, but may have features that you personally like better.
Decide on what features you really want and then go find a quality 1911 that fits you. That may very well BE the Professional, or it might not.
As for whether you should buy the other two instead of a well built semi-custom 1911 (like the Professional), well, that depends on what you want to do.
The Dan Wesson is a pretty nice pistol and if I were looking for a production 1911, then it would be one I'd consider. The HK is nice too, if you like HKs. So I think we're going to want to have more information as to what you intend to do with the pistol and whether you really know what you want out of a 1911.
Here's my personal Professional:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c270/dspipes/1911s/Pro.jpg
The Professional is a great choice for ME. :) (But I also had a Nighthawk built to similar specs to the Professional but with a few personalizations and its also a great choice for ME. You just have to know what you want.
To be honest I have never fired an HK or a Pro or a DW, I hear folks talk how the accuracy on HK is up there with top shelf 1911s and then I talk to other people that say they are no better than a Glock or M@P when you set them up the same. What I am after id the most reliable ACCURATE gun. If the HK would do as well as a top 1911 I would probally like it, but if its another glock, sig type I would rather have them, much cheaper also. Is the pro as reliable as say the HK, I already know its super accurate from what I have read. Thanks again.
i have had all the guns you describe....i have sold all the guns you describe
the only one I have re-purchased is a Springfield Pro....I currently only own 1 1911....1 gun in .45 actually...and its the Professional...its that good...if you only can have one, it would be it
I would go for 2 good guns over 1 if I was starting with 0 handguns or if these were the only 2 handguns I'd ever own.
But if I have other handguns or plan to own more in the future I'd want to get the one I really want. Always buy the handgun you really want. Because no matter what else you buy you'll still want what you want.
Here's mine with another handgun.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v611/Ian111/IMG_0658.jpg
And with another.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v611/Ian111/ProTRS.jpg
Get the ones YOU really want and be happy. No big deal if you don't end up liking it. Sell it. The Pro retains its value really well and they sell fast on the used market. Chalk it up to part of the "journey". Then get the HK 45. In fact get two with the sale of the Pro. Forget the DW. If you didn't like the Pro very little chance a DW 1911 will satisfy you.
I have owned all the guns you are talking about. The PRO is the best value OOB semi custom 1911 available if you like the features it comes with. The Dan wessons are decent range guns 'if' you get a good one. Otherwise you might need to spend money to get it to run.
The DW is a 1911 but thats where the similaritys end. Its not remotely like a PRO. Its like comparing an Olympic Arms Ar15 with a Noveske.
The HK45 is very accurate and durable. Its a large package, makes a great duty gun but is a pain to carry off Duty. I switched from the PRO to the HK45 last Qualification. I will be going back to the 1911 at my next quals.
I'd go SA Operator or Loaded in gods caliber and a Glock or M&P In 9mm. The Operator is one of the most feature rich cost effective 1911's out of the box bar none. JMHO
Out of those three I would go with the Pro hands down. You could also look at a Les Baer TRS in Bear finish. As a 1911 shooter I find a high grip causes me to ride the SS on the HK and at times wont lock back on empty because of my grip.
If you're seriously trying to choose between an SA Pro 1911, an H&K45, and a DW CBOB--and the money is not an issue--why then you've got the easiest decision ever made: get the Pro.
mrosamilia
01-28-09, 17:48
I have a question related to this. Does the Pro have the same front strap checkering as the TRP? I have the TRP and it is very aggressive. I placed an order for a Pro through Deb at the Custom Shop this evening and forgot to ask.
I have a question related to this. Does the Pro have the same front strap checkering as the TRP? I have the TRP and it is very aggressive. I placed an order for a Pro through Deb at the Custom Shop this evening and forgot to ask.
I don't know, but if you don't like aggressive front strap checkering, then you probably don't want the Pro.
To be honest I have never fired an HK or a Pro or a DW, I hear folks talk how the accuracy on HK is up there with top shelf 1911s and then I talk to other people that say they are no better than a Glock or M@P when you set them up the same. What I am after id the most reliable ACCURATE gun. If the HK would do as well as a top 1911 I would probally like it, but if its another glock, sig type I would rather have them, much cheaper also. Is the pro as reliable as say the HK, I already know its super accurate from what I have read. Thanks again.
Do you like the 1911 platform? If you've got no experience with it, then maybe you should at least try renting one to try it out. You could always gamble and buy the Pro and sell it very easily if you decide you don't, but buying a $2,200 pistol in a platform that you don't know if you like seems a little hasty.
The Pro's accuracy and reliability is well documented. It is an excellent pistol. but again, if you're going to get one, you would do well to know a thing or two about the 1911 and be able to say that you really like all its features. The 1911 can be built to your personal specifications, or it can be built to the FBI's like the Pro is. The Pro is a great pistol, as long as it also meets your personal specifications too.
The HK45 is probably more accurate than you are too. I'm sure its reliable. But whether the HK45 is more accurate than a Glock or an M&P? I don't know. Probably. In a ransom rest. But you're not a ransom rest. I have a HK 45 Expert that IS a reputed tack driver. But in my hands, I shoot faster and more accurately with a Glock 21 (which cost about 1/2 the price). The Expert is very accurate, but I can do a little better with the Glock 21. Other people's mileage will vary. (And we're talking tiny fractions of inches here).
There's a lot of people who subscribe to the "HK is the best" logic. I don't. I think they make very nice pistols. But in my experience, they don't offer much, if anything, over the other polymer framed pistols out there. And they're generally a lot more expensive. I've never been convinced they're worth it (and I've owned a couple of them).
SpartanArms
01-28-09, 18:09
Do any of you Pro owners know if it is possible to order a Pro from the Custom Shop without the extended/flared magazine well? I realize they have a purpose, but I've never liked them on my personal 1911s. Have been considering placing an order for a Pro from the Custom Shop but wasn't sure if the mag well was optional or not.
Do any of you Pro owners know if it is possible to order a Pro from the Custom Shop without the extended/flared magazine well? I realize they have a purpose, but I've never liked them on my personal 1911s. Have been considering placing an order for a Pro from the Custom Shop but wasn't sure if the mag well was optional or not.
If you want a Professional, it comes one of two ways. With a light rail or without. It is a pistol built to the FBI's specifications and the FBI's specifications ONLY. If you want something (or anything) else, you can have a 1911 built however you want it, but it won't be stamped "Professional" on the side. It'll be a Custom Shop pistol.
Springfield will tell you that there's only one choice to make with the Professional. Light rail or not.
Do any of you Pro owners know if it is possible to order a Pro from the Custom Shop without the extended/flared magazine well? I realize they have a purpose, but I've never liked them on my personal 1911s. Have been considering placing an order for a Pro from the Custom Shop but wasn't sure if the mag well was optional or not.
As Federale says, you have to take the Professional exactly as the FBI spec'd it. Any deviation no matter how minor and they won't stamp "Professional" on the slide (non-rail model) and no "CRG" prefix serial #. After you buy it you can do whatever you want with it.
This is my theory and my theory only. I have a feeling SA Custom is strict about this because they're not sure whether the particular Pro they're making at any one time will go to the FBI or a civilian customer. I've heard more than a few times where civilian orders were delayed because Gov't contracts or demands always took precedence over civilian orders. 9 month wait times went to 12 month and sometimes even longer. Again, just a theory.
I have a feeling SA Custom is strict about this because they're not sure whether the particular Pro they're making will go to FBI or civilian customer.
I do not believe that is the case.
I do not believe that is the case.
So Deb over at SA Custom says this merely as marketing ploy?
Are you implying there's a "civilian" Professional and a real FBI Professional?
So Deb over at SA Custom says this merely as marketing ploy?
Are you implying there's a "civilian" Professional and a real FBI Professional?
There's not. My personally purchased one (which I did not pick up directly from Springfield) is no different than the one I've been issued or the ones that other team members have had issued or bought directly from Springfield as part of our purchase program.
When I ordered my Pro, right before it was supposed to ship Deb called me and told me that I mine going to be delayed because the FBI wanted more of the current batch than SA originally thought, so mine got sent to the FBI instead. From what I remember, SA makes so many at a time and the FBI gets first dibs, and the remainder go to fill civillian orders.
The front strap of the Pro is checkered at 20lpi. It's pretty course, but the gun will not go anywhere. This is how the FBI wanted it. But remember the SA Custom Shop is filled with very talented smiths that can make just about anything you want. If you want, call them up and say you want a pistol that is just like a Pro but with different checkering and no mag well. They will build exactly what you want, but it won't be a Pro. It will be a SA Custom Shop pistol, made by the same people that make Pro's. But a Pro is built per the FBI specs, and if you like those specs than you will like the Pro.
I don't drink the HK kool-aid. The HK45 is the only HK I've ever owned. It is very accurate, probably nearly as accurate as the Pro I had. For me the HK makes sense. But if money was no object, it would be hard to pick it over a Pro with rail.
SpartanArms
01-28-09, 20:32
I appreciate the info on the non-availability of Custom Shop SA Pro's without a magazine well. Thanks.:)
So Deb over at SA Custom says this merely as marketing ploy?
Wait, so you've gone from "I have a feeling ..." to "Deb over at SA Custom says ..." Which is it?
Are you implying there's a "civilian" Professional and a real FBI Professional?
That would seem obvious. If it doesn't go to the FBI, it's not a "real FBI Professional," now is it? You started this tangent by implying that SA had no idea whether a given Pro was going to the Bureau or not. Based on my understanding talking with folks at Quantico, I do not believe that is true. If you choose to read more into it than what I've said, that's on you.
I've had a Pro for four years and it is every bit the equal of other 1911s I have from respected 1911 builders. Mine has been through Gunsite 250 and 350 without a malfunction and that is an impressive record for any handgun. I plan to order another one before too long (if I could stop buying ARs).
Wait, so you've gone from "I have a feeling ..." to "Deb over at SA Custom says ..." Which is it?
That would seem obvious. If it doesn't go to the FBI, it's not a "real FBI Professional," now is it? You started this tangent by implying that SA had no idea whether a given Pro was going to the Bureau or not. Based on my understanding talking with folks at Quantico, I do not believe that is true. If you choose to read more into it than what I've said, that's on you.
Whoa. Whoa. I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. In hindsight I realize my tone was a bit confrontational and abrasive. Sorry about that. Let's keep this discussion light and on topic.
This is the "official" statement from SA Custom per Deb Else. Bold text mine.
The TRP is a factory pistol which has been upgraded with a few features to make it look like the full custom Professional model (FBI SWAT pistol).
The Professional is a full custom pistol that begins with a national match frame which has the oversized slide rails cut into the frame in our Geneseo machine shop. It uses all custom parts, including the Springfield Custom tool steel hammer & sear, Nowlin barrel & bushing, S&A mag well, Wilson ambi thumb safety, Novak low mount rear sight, dovetail front sight, match skeletonized trigger, standard guide rod system, and 6 specially tuned Metalform 7 round magazines. These pistols are hand assembled by custom gunsmiths in our Geneseo custom shop, under the supervision of master gunsmith David Williams. The Professional models meet or exceed all specifications of the FBI SWAT contract, including the accuracy requirement of 1.5" or better at 25 yards with Remington Golden Saber ammunition. The civilian pistols and the FBI pistols are built at the same time, with the gunsmiths never knowing whether a civilian or FBI agent will be using the pistol. These pistols are built approx. every 45 days, with the FBI order being filled first and civilian orders getting all of the remaining from the production run. These pistols do not have front cocking serrations or full length guide rods because the FBI chose not to have these features on their pistols. (Front cocking serrations catch on clothing and full length guide rods require additional tools for disassembly.) These pistols are finished with the Black T finish done by Walter Birdsong in MS.
The TRP pistol is a factory pistol which has been upgraded with more hand fitting than a standard factory pistol, as well as a 2 piece mag well, night sights, and better tuning internally. It has a quoted accuracy of 2.5" or better at 25 yards with match ammunition. It has the front cocking serrations and full length guide rod, just like the other factory "loaded" models. These pistols are finished with Springfield's Armory Kote finish, which is a painted on, baked on finish similar to the Black T finish.
Deb, Custom Shop Coordinator
Springfield Inc.
420 West Main St.
Geneseo, IL 61254
(800) 680-6866
customshop@springfield-armory.com
the ONLY thing I did not like about the SA Pro is the 20 LPI on the front strap, to aggressive for me.
my humble $.02
Sorry about that. Let's keep this discussion light and on topic.
Water under the bridge, carry on.
For those of you who do not care for some of the features of the Professional you should check out Springfield Armory Custom Carry (model #PC9102). It uses ALL of the same high quality parts (frame,slide,internals) as the Professional. The difference is that it does not have the ambi safety, magwell, frontstrap checkering, night sights or Black-T finish as well as the the Professional markings or the serial # prefix. The base gun is about $700 less than the Professional and you can have it built the exact way you want it. Springfield's Custom Shop does amazing work and can build you this gun with whatever features you want such as checkering, finish, sights ect.
For more info you can download the Custom Shop catalog....
http://www.springfield-armory.com/custom.php
Re: the checkering.
I spent a fair bit of time in '07 shooting some FBI 1911's and the checkering really is brutal if you're not used to it. It's intended to be used (primarily) while wearing gloves, so the rougher texture actually makes perfect sense.
Re: the checkering.
I spent a fair bit of time in '07 shooting some FBI 1911's and the checkering really is brutal if you're not used to it. It's intended to be used (primarily) while wearing gloves, so the rougher texture actually makes perfect sense.
For a single day at the range the checkering is not much of an issue, but for a 3-5 day training course a person will get hot spots and need to tape up or wear gloves.
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