View Full Version : Old is new again: 92G Vertec
http://9x19mm.com/photoalbum/albums/userpics/92GVertec-20Jan09.jpg
Picked up an excellent-condition 92G Vertec last week and today finally had a chance to put some rounds downrange.
The accuracy of the gun was outstanding:
http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/vertec-grp.jpg
Those are the first five rounds I fired through the gun. A 5-shot group at 25yd from the bench measuring 0.71" center to center. And yes, I was so geeky excited that I took a picture with my iPhone and emailed it to half a dozen friends. I also dragged lindertw over to see it, who was unfortunate enough to be nearby while I was so busy patting myself on the back.
While I don't see giving up my M&P9 anytime soon -- I shoot the M&P a little faster and the ergos work better for me, especially reloads -- this gun reminded me just how much I loved my Berettas. It took me about 50 rounds to get over the DA/SA thing and then I was driving along like old times.
Congratulations on the snag. That gun looks just like mine, down to the CTC grip. Excellent group.
Here's mine. I installed an Elite II hammer :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/RichardTouch/Vertec003.jpg
I think the grip frame on the Vertec is way more superior than the regular 92 grip. My wish Beretta would be a Centurion G with Vertec grip!
sigmundsauer
01-27-09, 06:56
I always liked the Vertecs with the short trigger, but could never bring myself to buy one 'cause the DA stroke seemed to stack a lot more than the standard 92s. I could do without the rail, too.
Phenomenal accuracy. I just pulled out my 92FS the other day and sighted it in. I was not able to achieve accuracy anywhere near yours, Todd. Not that it was bad or anything.
Tim
Very impressive dude!
I would put a copy of that on my refrigerator....and maybe the front door. All the warning any intruder needs. :D
USSA-1
The M9A1 appears to have an identical rail. Was the Vertec rail-equipped before the M9A1?
The Vertec was the first Beretta pistol with an accessory rail.
I need to get one of those GIANT quarters to make my groups look better too! :p
Does Brownells carry them?
The Giant Quarter was the easy part. Finding a buddy who could loan me a 155mm Howitzer to put holes in the paper ... now that was tricky.
Rumor has it the range security cameras caught Todd moonwalking in the parking lot - he was pretty stoked about that grouping :D
Fantastic shooting man! It was good to bump into you again at the range. Let me know how the 'Tuesday Night Thing' progresses, I'd like to get involved as work schedule permits.
mental note, the next time Todd is away from his gear for an extended period of time I'm going to load some snap caps in his range mags :p
John_Wayne777
01-27-09, 11:12
Lots of people ding on the Beretta but in my experience they've always been a pretty good handgun if you maintain them.
Someday I'll have to let Todd play with my chrome plated LTT customized Beretta....although I don't know if it will shoot .7" groups.
Maybe I should bring it to the private Vickers class...It'll give Todd a chance to play with it and it'll give KevinB the chance to ask about my "Taurus" again.
Jack_Stroker
01-27-09, 11:18
What is the difference between the Vertec and the M9A1? I've always been curious about that. Near as I can tell there isn't much if any difference.
What is the difference between the Vertec and the M9A1? I've always been curious about that. Near as I can tell there isn't much if any difference.
The two main differences are the grip frame and barrel length.
Jack_Stroker
01-27-09, 11:39
The two main differences are the grip frame and barrel length.
I see. I checked out some pictures of it. The M9A1 seems to be the same thing as the Beretta 92FS/M9 with an accesory rail while the Vertec has a grip that is more like that of the Beretta Cougar 8000 and has a shorter barrel.
BushmasterFanBoy
01-27-09, 12:09
Wow. Never knew these were sought after items.:D I kinda regretted buying mine, but I guess they are pretty cool now! I've always been a Beretta shooter, but the trigger on the Vertec is way too close to the frame. (I got one of the original 96's)
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd283/Burke888/DSC_3479.jpg
The use of the "short" trigger on the Vertec was my decision and it turned out to be a bad one. It's fairly easy to replace and any standard Beretta trigger will work without the need for any fitting, etc.
Is it accurate to say that Beretta developed the M9A1 directly from the Vertec?
Not exactly. The M9A1 is actually more like the 92G-SD, which is a project (Super)Dave Harrington and I worked on back in the early 00's. The M9A1 is really nothing more than a 92G-SD frame with a standard slide and the newer (plastic) trigger, safety lever, guide rod, etc.
Not exactly. The M9A1 is actually more like the 92G-SD, which is a project (Super)Dave Harrington and I worked on back in the early 00's. The M9A1 is really nothing more than a 92G-SD frame with a standard slide and the newer (plastic) trigger, safety lever, guide rod, etc.
Todd:
Why did they have to "morph" into the M9A1? was the SD more costly to produce? or they didn't like the G feature in the SD? I thought the SD was ideal for heavy usage.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/RichardTouch/G-SD.jpg
The .mil (at the procurement/command level) didn't want a 'G' and didn't care about replacing the front sight. They also didn't want the added weight.
What would be really ideal is an M9A1 frame with a Vertec 'G' slide ... there's a conversation about that right now on Beretta Forum (http://www.berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=45289). :cool:
I just replied at Berettaforum to your post. I like the idea and would buy one.
Not to digress too far from the topic, but did the Marines approach Beretta about modifying the M9 into the M9A1, or was this a Beretta proposal to the Marines?
The latter. The original goal was to convince the .mil to replace every frame (or better yet, every gun) in DoD service with the M9A1.
Thanks for the insight. I've heard next to nothing about the M9A1 in service, although presumably it's performance and reliability would be similar to a standard M9.
olds442tyguy
01-27-09, 15:34
To this day I can still shoot a Beretta better than about any other gun.
My ideal Beretta would be a 92G-SD Centurion. Throw the Elite hammer and mag release on it, put on some Hogue checkered coco bola grips, slap some Trijicons on it, and matte hard chrome the slide and barrel. Mmmm, I wish I was loaded.
Jack_Stroker
03-11-09, 10:24
I just picked up a Beretta 96G-SD. I started with Beretta's and I've always liked them. I haven't had a chance to shoot the new gun yet, but I hope to do so this weekend.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/8388756/96GSide2.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/8388756/96GSide1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/8388756/SlideAction.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/8388756/Barrell.jpg
To me either the Vertec or the 92G-SD/96G-SD are the ideal configuration for the Beretta design.
Seen the Beretta web site lately? Looks like a Cabelas catalog selling all manner of non-gun things. Weird.
https://www.berettausa.com/Default.aspx
So why did Beretta get rid of the Vertec and other models that Beretta fan like so much? Were they not selling well or is Beretta just not listening to their customers?
The Storm looks interesting but not interesting enough for me to try over the newer HK's and the M&P series.
Not a Beretta fan myself. I think it's an awful military weapon with a DA trigger, clunky controls, and a safety that makes no sense to me at all in location or operation. I would have preferred the Sig P226 even with it's first DA trigger.
Also thicker trigger guard, PVD coating and slightly changed mags.
The two main differences are the grip frame and barrel length.
Jack_Stroker
03-11-09, 23:12
Also thicker trigger guard, PVD coating and slightly changed mags.
The Vertec comes with the "sand resitant magazines" but all Beretta .40S&W 96/90-Two and 9mm 92/90-Two magazines are interchangable. I've got some of those magazines and they work fine in my 92FS. Also the mags are PVD coated, the pistol itself is Bruniton finsihed. The trigger guard is thicker, and is reshaped to better facilitate the attachment of lights/lasers. The 96G-SD is fairly similar to the Vertec, but has the standard length barrel shared with the normal 92/96 pistols, but is stainless steel now. The frame has new checkering on the front and backstraps comapred to the 92FS. I've got to say I love the Brigadier slide.
Not a Beretta fan myself. I think it's an awful military weapon with a DA trigger, clunky controls, and a safety that makes no sense to me at all in location or operation. I would have preferred the Sig P226 even with it's first DA trigger.
That's about how I feel about the SIG. I can't stand the high bore axis, ergonomics, or pretty much anything else about them. I feel indifferent about the trigger. The DA trigger pull on the Beretta isn't great, but the SA pull is fine as far as I am concerned.
To each their own I guess. :cool:
I know the pistol is Bruniton finished. I was referring to the mags but it wasn't clear. 1st I've heard of the PVD mags with Vertecs. I assumed they came out with the PVD as a result of the military debacle with Checkmate mags.
I'm not saying Sig is my 1st choice in general, especially these days, but since it basically tied the Beretta I would have preferred it if I could only choose from what was in the trial. As it happens we didn't have to choose because we kept our 1911's.
BTW I don't see a difference between the Sig and Beretta bore axis height.
I'm new to the personaly owned beretta world. I picked up a 92D and wanted to now if there is a short trigger for it? Now after reading this isolated bit of info I'm not sure. Could you expand? I'm looking for a shorter reset.
There is only one "short trigger" for all 92- and 96-series guns to the best of my knowledge. So if you find a Beretta 92/96 short trigger, it will work in your 92D.
Seen the Beretta web site lately? Looks like a Cabelas catalog selling all manner of non-gun things. Weird.
Beretta dramatically expanded its clothing and knife lines in '01 and has been moving hard in that direction ever since. When I worked there ('00-'02), Franco Beretta, the heir apparent, was not at all shy about his desire to see Beretta change from a gun company to a clothing company. The goal was to be bigger than Columbia by 2010.
I know the pistol is Bruniton finished. I was referring to the mags but it wasn't clear. 1st I've heard of the PVD mags with Vertecs. I assumed they came out with the PVD as a result of the military debacle with Checkmate mags.
That is my understanding, as well. The PVD mags definitely weren't standard when the Vertec first came out. They hadn't been developed yet.
BTW I don't see a difference between the Sig and Beretta bore axis height.
(1) I think the Beretta has a lower bore axis.
(2) I think most people make a much bigger deal out of bore axis than it deserves.
I can live with a high bore axis but I prefer a lower bore axis. In fact I love me some low bore axis. :-) We should start a thread about which is better and combine it with 9mm vs .40 vs. .45 cause thats never been done before...;-)
Change from a gun company to a clothing company? WTF?
So Todd, why did they get rid of the Vertec? They still sell multiple models of the 92...I tried a Vertec once and liked it noticeably more than the 92 series.
I can live with a high bore axis but I prefer a lower bore axis.
As do I. But it's probably not in the top ten things I'd worry about when choosing a pistol, especially a duty/carry pistol.
Change from a gun company to a clothing company? WTF?
You need to look at it from the European viewpoint. Beretta is losing market share in the worldwide military and LEO segment. They are losing market share in LE and civilian pistol segments in the US and they know they are unlikely to win a .45-cal military pistol procurement if that finally happens. The U.S. commercial market is volatile at best due to constant threats of bans.
Clothing is much easier and cheaper to make; it has much higher margins; it requires substantially less expensive support, QC, and warranty; windbreakers aren't getting banned anytime soon (except maybe in the U.K. if someone threatens to use one to strangle someone).
So Todd, why did they get rid of the Vertec?
I can only speculate, as the decision was made after I left the company. My belief is that with the introduction of the 90-Two, the need for a railed 90-series gun with a straight backstrap was seen as fulfilled by the newer gun. The Vertec was never popular with some key managers at Beretta USA because the concept and development happened within the LE Sales group instead of through the normal channels. Some bruised egos were salved when the Vertec was "disappeared."
Thanks for the info. Interesting. But it seems to me that Beretta would only sell clothing insofar as the clothing is identified with a popular gun line not as a clothing entity. My guess is this will not work out for them.
My guess is this will not work out for them.
wikipedia agrees with you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Outdoor_clothing_brands
There is only one "short trigger" for all 92- and 96-series guns to the best of my knowledge. So if you find a Beretta 92/96 short trigger, it will work in your 92D.
I was having enough trouble finding the .22 conversion kit:mad:. Got it I'll start turning over more stones looking for one. How to you rate the short trigger on a 92?
Never mind it's going in to Beretta for a Short Reach Trigger for the Vertac PN# and trigger job. I'll have them go over it while it's there since it's kind of old.
Thanks!
Just got back from the range and asked a friend to bring his M9A1. It was fun to shoot and I kind of liked it..more than I expected. Been awhile since I shot a Beretta. I like the big slide release and easy to grab and slingshot slide. Still don't like the safety. I might even buy one just to have but I'm kind of leery of Beretta as a company. they seem to be wandering and out of touch and I don't know what their support situation is like. You know who sells alot of 92fs' is Sportsmans Warehouse. They sell them as quick as they get them in to current or ex-servicemen who want to buy what they were issued.
Jack_Stroker
03-12-09, 14:27
Just got back from the range and asked a friend to bring his M9A1. It was fun to shoot and I kind of liked it..more than I expected. Been awhile since I shot a Beretta. I like the big slide release and easy to grab and slingshot slide. Still don't like the safety. I might even buy one just to have but I'm kind of leery of Beretta as a company. they seem to be wandering and out of touch and I don't know what their support situation is like. You know who sells alot of 92fs' is Sportsmans Warehouse. They sell them as quick as they get them in to current or ex-servicemen who want to buy what they were issued.
If you aren't into the safety (it isn't my favorite either) then check out the "G" models. They have a decocking lever only and no manual safety. Also they do have some pistols with a 1911 style safety. I personally think it is ugly, but it is well placed and comfortable to use. You can even carry them cocked and locked like a 1911. (See Beretta Steel I (https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/12718)) That pistol also uses the Vertec frame and has no rail. Kind of an odd animal. I almost bought one because it was unique but I passed on it and went with the 96G-SD instead.
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