View Full Version : Review: Para Ordnance Expert GI45 1911
OnPointFirearms
01-29-09, 15:22
ATTENTION! The new Expert GI45 1911 from Para Ordnance is the best 1911 on the market-- for the money, that is. Of course, I say this without any hint of hyperbole. We just received the first unit this afternoon, and let me tell you something, my friends: there is not a single gun on the market with as much intrinsic value. New models displayed at Shot Show are smooth as glass, but when the actual production models show up at dealers-- it's often a completely different animal. Not so with the new Para GI45 1911.
Out of the box, fit and finish are superb. The GI45's slide and frame glide against each another like two sticks of warm butter. The matte black finish is beautiful and contrasts perfectly with the brilliant stainless steel barrel. The Para Expert GI45 sports dovetail, three-dot sights that are quick and easy to acquire. The skeleton hammer and drilled trigger add a modern, semi-custom look. Trigger pull is crisp. However, all the rest of the features are standard mil-spec GI fare-- right down to the subdued black plastic grips. No fancy checkering on the frame, but for the price-- you don't expect a lot of custom features. This is a workhorse 1911, and the price cannot be beat: $453 dealer cost! The Para Ordnance Expert GI-45 ships in a hard case with two stainless 7rd magazines.
This one is sold (to me), but we should have more units on the way soon-- so stay tuned to the website for more inventory to arrive.
Take care,
-- Evan "Haven't been this excited about a milspec 1911 since..." Kostreva
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/para_ordnance_expert_gi45_1911_1.JPG
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/para_ordnance_expert_gi45_1911_3.JPG
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/para_ordnance_expert_gi45_1911_4.JPG
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/para_ordnance_expert_gi45_1911_5.JPG
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/para_ordnance_expert_gi45_1911_6.JPG
Does it have the series 80 firing pin block junk?
USSA-1
ATTENTION! The new Expert GI45 1911 from Para Ordnance is the best 1911 on the market-- for the money, that is. Of course, I say this without any hint of hyperbole.
Have you shot the gun?
How many rounds? What ammo? Any stoppages of any kind (whether attributed to the gun, mags, ammo, or shooter)?
What kind of groups is it getting from the bench, and with which ammo?
MarshallDodge
01-29-09, 15:34
It looks interesting. Could it be the new "builder" of choice? :cool:
Are the frame and slide forged?
OnPointFirearms
01-29-09, 15:38
Have you shot the gun?
How many rounds? What ammo? Any stoppages of any kind (whether attributed to the gun, mags, ammo, or shooter)?
What kind of groups is it getting from the bench, and with which ammo?
Like the post says, I just got it today. Planning on a range trip this weekend. Will report back.
My point was that it's a bit premature to call a gun the best on the market when you haven't even put a round through it yet, especially coming from a manufacturer with a spotty at best record.
Does it have the series 80 firing pin block junk?
USSA-1
the exploded view in the manual (http://www.para-usa.com/new/downloads/manual_GI.pdf) (pg 24) shows Series-80 looking safety bits...
Littlelebowski
01-29-09, 19:16
Have you shot the gun?
How many rounds? What ammo? Any stoppages of any kind (whether attributed to the gun, mags, ammo, or shooter)?
What kind of groups is it getting from the bench, and with which ammo?
And that's why I love this site. Keep up the good work.
Sounds like the OP came here to advertise. ON the other hand...not a bad "looking" pistol..time will tell.
Littlelebowski
01-29-09, 20:14
Sounds like the OP came here to advertise.
Ya think? :D :D :D
My son picked one up today at Academy in Victoria, TX. $499 out the door is not bad. He is bringing it to me next weekend to go over and we will put some rounda through it, that I can promise you. I told him I have a beautiful set of Cocobolo grips with that guns name on them. Gotta get rid of those cheesy plastic grips that come with it. He is pumped!!!
tex45acp
Littlelebowski
02-18-09, 05:59
So a good way to earn business and restore trusti n your integrity would be to post a thorough review. Just saying......
So a good way to earn business and restore trusti n your integrity would be to post a thorough review. Just saying......
The MO appears to be....
1) Spam sites with announcements on new products
2) Check back for a day or so to get mad when pronouncements of "best ever" are questioned
3) Never return to thread again after the first day or two
As posted above, this is the same spamming that went on over the Colt/Umarex. Nothing like proclamations of wonderfulness without ever actually using a product. :rolleyes:
Littlelebowski
02-18-09, 07:17
I know, I was just trying to restore our faith in humanity ;)
OnPointFirearms
02-18-09, 08:53
The MO appears to be....
1) Spam sites with announcements on new products
2) Check back for a day or so to get mad when pronouncements of "best ever" are questioned
3) Never return to thread again after the first day or two
As posted above, this is the same spamming that went on over the Colt/Umarex. Nothing like proclamations of wonderfulness without ever actually using a product. :rolleyes:
1) Sorry if you guys consider this SPAM.
2) I'm not mad about anything.
3) After the first day or so, the thread isn't worth watching. I see where the direction of this post has gone. I was always taught that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Guys can pile on and beat a dead horse as much as they want. I'm not here to entertain that.
M4Carbine.net is a great resource for shooters. Your M4 matrix is great. In fact, I have one printed out to show clients at our shop and one in my range bag when I'm out and about. I'm trying to add value to this site in anyway that I can. To contribute something that I think is worth while. If my reviews aren't up to spec, then I won't post them anymore.
God bless.
-- Evan
If my reviews aren't up to spec, then I won't post them anymore.
There's no review though.... :confused:
OnPointFirearms
02-18-09, 09:19
There's no review though.... :confused:
I'm sorry. The day I received the first unit into stock, I quickly snapped these photos, examined the weapon, and posted up my review of the fit and finish. I guess I would call that a review, albeit a brief one. I mistakenly assumed that this small amount of info would be well received. Better to have some info out than none at all, right? A full range trip would take time.
Rest assured, all the big gun magazines will be reviewing this model in detail in the future, so check your local news stand. Sorry the pics and small write up weren't up to the standards of this forum.
God bless,
Evan
rubberneck
02-18-09, 09:33
Rest assured, all the big gun magazines will be reviewing this model in detail in the future, so check your local news stand. Sorry the pics and small write up weren't up to the standards of this forum.
I think the standard of actually shooting a gun before calling it the best on the market is a fairly easy one to meet. If you have a hard time living up to a simple standard like that, than I would suggest that you won't be happy with the responses from this crowd.
Personally I couldn't care less what a gun writer has to say about the gun in a magazine that receives advertising revenue from ParaOrd. In all the years I have read the various gunzines I have never read one brutally honest review. I have read a couple where the gun was a total pig but it was blamed on something other than the poor quality of the gun. They do take nice pictures though.
rubberneck has it right.
Do you really not see a problem with this statement
The new Expert GI45 1911 from Para Ordnance is the best 1911 on the market
Without having fired so much as a single round out of the gun?
ETA:
There is a difference between a "new product announcement" and a "new product review".
Sorry the pics and small write up weren't up to the standards of this forum.
It's not that.
...I'd guess that many of us would like to hear how it gobbles up 200-500 rounds.
(p.s. ... don't be butt hurt. it's not sexy. Man up, blast the pistol, and report back.) ;)
OnPointFirearms
02-18-09, 10:09
It's not that.
...I'd guess that many of us would like to hear how it gobbles up 200-500 rounds.
(p.s. ... don't be butt hurt. it's not sexy. Man up, blast the pistol, and report back.) ;)
BTW, it does gobble up cheap Winchester White Box. Shot 200rds through it last weekend with a buddy. It's a good gun. Seriously, for the money-- you can't go wrong. Sure, it's no Les Baer, but it's not trying to be.
rubberneck
02-18-09, 10:15
BTW, it does gobble up cheap Winchester White Box. Shot 200rds through it last weekend with a buddy. It's a good gun. Seriously, for the money-- you can't go wrong. Sure, it's no Les Baer, but it's not trying to be.
In my experience 1911's don't tend to have problems with decent ball ammo it is usually hollow points and LSWC that trip it up.
In my experience 1911's don't tend to have problems with decent ball ammo it is usually hollow points and LSWC that trip it up.
In my experience 1911s will eventually choke on anything. For a new 1911 to go through 500 rounds of ball ammo without a hickup it pretty significant.
For a new 1911 to go through 500 rounds of ball ammo without a hickup it pretty significant.
Agreed. And if all someone will ever do with the gun is shoot ball through it at the range, its ability to handle JHPs is a moot point. Would I want a gun that couldn't shoot JHPs? No. But I don't have range/fun-guns.
rubberneck
02-18-09, 10:36
In my experience 1911s will eventually choke on anything. For a new 1911 to go through 500 rounds of ball ammo without a hickup it pretty significant.
I have had three, all Springfield's, make it well past the 1000 round mark before choking for the first time. My sample size of three is very small and I freely admit that my experience may indeed be atypical.
The likely hood of not having problems feeding a 1911 goes way up if the gun is given to a competent gunsmith to ensure the angle of the feed ramp is within spec. You'd be surprised at the number of 1911's that come out of production with an out of spec feed ramp. It may meet that manufacturers spec but not the original spec for the design. Don't get me going on the shoddy qc that some 1911 manufacturers think is acceptable.
The worst 1911s I've had were 2 springers. The best (reliability wise) was a 1911 Norinco, but it too eventually started in with the mystery malfs that almost all 1911s give.
I don't want to turn this into a typical 1911 thread... but...
We need to get over the romance of shooting a WWII era pistol, and get onto the business of shooting smelly bad guys in the face with a modern pistol design! :eek:
MarshallDodge
02-18-09, 10:53
We really know how to eat our own on this site don't we?!? :rolleyes:
We really know how to eat our own on this site don't we?!? :rolleyes:
Not sure what you mean.
Frankly, I see it as us protecting our own.
VooDoo6Actual
02-18-09, 11:01
OnPointFirearms,
Is it a CAST frame or FORGED ?
TIA
It looks interesting. Could it be the new "builder" of choice? :cool:
Are the frame and slide forged? Slide is Forged and the frame is cast every other part other than the barrel is MIM, Para's QC sucks so MIM and poor QC = Fail. My LDA CCW went back to Para twice for broken parts , The service center took care of the broken parts and sub standard finish flaking off but I had to pay shipping to them, they paid return shipping but never reimbursed me for the shipping charges I incurred. I'll never own another. By the way mine was completely reliable and accurate as hell right out of the box, HP's, FMJ, Semi wadcutters ect. At 500 rds things started breaking and the finish started flaking off in chunks off the grip safety. Parts that broke, Extractor snapped right in the middle and puked into the action causing it to tie up so bad that a gunsmith had to remove the parts, Mag release snapped dumping the mag on the ground, The holes that the slide stop runs through were starting to egg out, the slide stop notch on the slide was peened heavily, as were the locking lug recesses in the slide. At 1300 rds I ditched the pistol as I could no longer trust it not to break or come apart the next time I shot it. In a pistol that was close to $900 new this was totaly unacceptable. Para will always equal expensive junk in my book.
rubberneck
02-18-09, 11:07
We really know how to eat our own on this site don't we?!? :rolleyes:
If making empty statements about a products value without any empirical data to support that statement is "eating our own" than I expect more posters to dig in. It's not like the expectation bar is set that high to begin with. If I read a thread extolling the virtues of a firearm than I think I have the reasonable expectation that the person reviewing the product, has at the very least, tried it. If not I might as well stop reading here and spend my time doing something else. I don't know about you but I don't particularly enjoy mental masturbation.
Slide is Forged and the frame is cast every other part other than the barrel is MIM, Para's QC sucks so MIM and poor QC = Fail.
But it's "GI" :rolleyes:
$453 dealer cost for a cast framed 1911? I'm going to vote NO!
I agree with bigun, cast alone doesn't bother me but cast AND Para would give me great pause.
VooDoo6Actual
02-18-09, 11:30
BTDT WOTTS, not interested in ANY gun that is CAST for serious duty use.
Forged only for me.
MarshallDodge
02-18-09, 11:34
If making empty statements about a products value without any empirical data to support that statement is "eating our own" than I expect more posters to dig in. It's not like the expectation bar is set that high to begin with. If I read a thread extolling the virtues of a firearm than I think I have the reasonable expectation that the person reviewing the product, has at the very least, tried it. If not I might as well stop reading here and spend my time doing something else. I don't know about you but I don't particularly enjoy mental masturbation.
Post 1. OnPointFirearms(Evan) posted that this was the best 1911 for the money.
Post 6: Todd G questioned his review, and rightfully so.
Post 19: OnPointFirearms(Evan) posted that he agreed that if his reviews were not up to spec then he would not post them anymore.
Post 20 and beyond had some good points but some were just piling on in my opinion and that is what my post was directed at. One of those posts has been edited since I made my last post and I actually liked what markm had to say:
...I'd guess that many of us would like to hear how it gobbles up 200-500 rounds.
(p.s. ... don't be butt hurt. it's not sexy. Man up, blast the pistol, and report back.)
From the looks of the gun it's another Phillipine made 1911 with a cast frame and mediocre parts , fit, and finish. Probably a good shooter but not something I would necessarily stake my life on.
Littlelebowski
02-18-09, 14:39
I'm sorry. The day I received the first unit into stock, I quickly snapped these photos, examined the weapon, and posted up my review of the fit and finish. I guess I would call that a review, albeit a brief one. I mistakenly assumed that this small amount of info would be well received. Better to have some info out than none at all, right? A full range trip would take time.
Rest assured, all the big gun magazines will be reviewing this model in detail in the future, so check your local news stand. Sorry the pics and small write up weren't up to the standards of this forum.
God bless,
Evan
Dude, just shoot the heck out of it, post some groups and your impressions. I see where you're coming from here but surely you see (don't have to agree wtih) our point however crudely made. You'd probably sell a few here if you have a detailed review of a good product at a decent price.
In my experience 1911s will eventually choke on anything. For a new 1911 to go through 500 rounds of ball ammo without a hickup it pretty significant.
One only has to take a 1911 operator course or gunsmith course from Vickers, or hell just ask him, and you'll see that with a 1911, reliable at 500 or 1000 rounds does not equal reliable at 5000 rounds.
If parts are not properly fitted, the gun may run, but, even with proper maintenance and spring changes, the improperly fitted parts will begin to beat each other up, and voila, "its never done that before".
Cast like MIM does not automatically equal bad, Caspian's are considered some of the best frames on the market, and they are cast.
I have a 1911 build on an Essex frame, it was done by the original armorer for LAV's unit, you would think he just grabbed any part out of a trash can to build it, but it runs and is accurate. I asked him about cast frames, he didn't seem to care, as long as it was a good quality part and in spec, and even then some of the out of spec stuff, could be corrected.
Bob
We need to get over the romance of shooting a WWII era pistol, and get onto the business of shooting smelly bad guys in the face with a modern pistol design! :eek:
Oh, the pain I've experienced with a statement akin to that, and I like 1911's.
Bob
Littlelebowski
02-18-09, 16:15
My brother just had to have his P14 refinished. Said the finish was falling off.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.