View Full Version : M&P's and Glocks
I wanted to start this thread so as to not hijack the other M&P thread.
As a long time Glock owner and shooter, I like mine. I dont want to debate that as my personal experience with Glocks has shown me that they are quality weapons that work under bad conditions, and I can shoot them fast and accurate.
What I'd like to discuss is what the M&P offers me over or in addition to them. When I worked in my local gun store earlier this year, I got to spend a lot of time with some of the folks from S&W. I got to know the M&P inside and out. The one thing I didnt get to do was fire one. Reliabilty and long term durability was also an unknown factor. I have been following the M&P now as much as possible in different places, and it seems to be doing well.
I do like the grip shape, feel, and ability to configure. I like the mags, and some other features. For those of you who have had or have Glocks, and an M&P, which do you prefer and why? How long have you had an M&P, how many rounds have youput through it (approx.), and have you used one in serious training, practice, competition, etc.?
I am just trying to decide if I want to add a M&P to the battery, or if its worth switching from Glock altogether.
Thanks.
My feeling, and apparently I'm WRONG, is that if you have something that works for you stick with it. If the M&P offers you something that you can't get with a GLOCK or any other handgun (like H&K, 1911, XD, etc) then have at it.
From what I can tell the M&Ps are great and I would love to try one but at this stage I don't have a NEED to switch. I think my time would be better spent using what I have instead.
Apparently I'm wrong too, because I agree with Marc. It's mighty easy for us to spend more time chasing the latest and greatest, especially when you're genuinely interested in what's "best". With so much new stuff these days it seems the grass is always greener somewhere else. My decision is influenced greatly by my bank account, but I've pretty well decided that I'm not going to move past my Glock until it starts limiting me, instead of me being the weak link. On the other hand if I continually struggled with shooting it well, and something came along that just "clicked" naturally for me, I'd be a fool to keep fighting with it and not switch over.
I don't think I've heard any negative press on the M&Ps, even from people who I would trust to call BS if appropriate, but only you can decide if it's a tangible, marked enough improvement for you over Glock to warrant a changeover…
I think I've veered far enough out of my lane now though so back to your regularly scheduled thread ;)
Good post LOKNLOD!
As you stated, I'm the weakest link when it comes to shooting, not my handguns. I learned that lesson when I switched from H&Ks to GLOCKs several years back. Now I understand that it's all about practice, practice, practice.
When I stop becoming the weakest link and contribute my inabilities to hardware then it will be time to switch. Maybe I'm wrong...maybe I'll pick up and M&P and say this does make me a better shooter. That would be awesome because it's a lot easier for me to spend money than it is for me to spend time practicing.
I am a long time Glock guy, but was recently able to shoot 100rds through a rental M&P40. Obviously, this is not the extended evaluation you want to hear about, but I’ll give you my initial impressions, one Glock guy to another.
The gun I shot was a full size M&P40, fitted with the full size grip. These were manageable by my medium sized hands, but I would have preferred to use the medium or small set of grips. The range guy said he didn’t have them so I was stuck with those grips. Who ever cleaned it last must be a 1911 guy cuz the thing was absolutely dripping with lube and grease (gracious, I hope that’s what it was!). I had to wipe it down with a shop towel just to keep it from squirting out of my hand like a bar of soap.
The weapon pointed very naturally, and the sights were easy to align. Trigger reach was good despite the size of the grips. The grips provided adequate purchase, and a grip sock or piece of bike inner-tube (which I use on my G17) probably wouldn’t be required. There weren’t any sharp spots that abraded me while shooting. I would have preferred a higher cut under the trigger guard, but that can be easily remedied with some careful dremel work.
The controls are well placed and relatively easy to reach. Kudos to Smith for thinking about us lefties with the ambi-slide release. Unfortunately, the slide release was extremely stiff and difficult to get purchase on. The only thing it is good for is locking the slide back.
The gun was accurate enough for a service pistol. It is certainly in the same league as a Glock, SIG, or any other off the shelf service weapon.
It malfunctioned twice while I was shooting it. Rounds in the middle of the mag (sorry didn’t keep track of the exact round) would hang up on the feed ramp and fail to go into battery. I did not see any obvious mechanical causes (burrs on the feed ramp, magazine lips, etc.). Ammo was 180gr MagTech. I’ve had limited experience with this ammo, so I can’t rule it out as a culprit (it seemed to be hotter than the PMC I shoot in my G23). The weapon also appeared relatively new, so that could have been a factor. Finally, while the gun was clean and free of fouling, it’s possible that the over lubrication contributed to the malfunctions. In any case, I am not going to accuse the M&P of being unreliable. Only an extended evaluation with multiple ammo types and proper maintenance could lead to that conclusion, so I’ll leave that to the guys that actually own them to chime in.
My biggest concern though was the trigger. The break seemed a little higher than the stock Glock trigger, so maybe 6 lbs or so, which is not bad (some of the M&P owners talk about 5 minute trigger jobs that help). Take up seemed about the same. It was mushy and sproingy like a Glock trigger so I was right at home, and I hardly noticed the two-piece trigger at all. However, the reset seemed longer and less positive than the Glock. Trying to shoot it fast like a Glock (fire, release trigger until reset, fire) was not as easy. Granted, I don’t have a lot of trigger time, and I’m sure I’d get used to it after a while. But there is a learning curve there.
To sum up:
Positives:
Ergonomic and points naturally
Accurate enough for fighting
Trigger pull was good
Negatives:
Overly stiff slide release
Trigger reset not as short or positive as the Glock
All in all, it’s an excellent pistol. It has some warts, but nothing that can’t be overcome. I won’t be purging all my Glocks and replacing them with M&P’s just yet, they don't do anything better than a Glock (other than offer interchangeable grips). However, I am anxious to get my hands on the .45 cal version when it comes out. I've never been satisfied with the .45 cal offerings from Glock, and haven't found a non-Glock that I like much better. The .45 M&P could be the answer I've been looking for. The Sigma demons have truly been exorcized.
Hope that helps.
Thanks GlockWRX! I look forward to other assessments as well, like from GotM4.
Like I said above, I would love to just spend the money on an M&P and become a better shooter. It's a hell of a lot easier than taking the time to practice. If the M&P will make me a better shooter I'm all for it. I just don't think that is the case.
Of course if I bought one I wouldn't be called a booger eater any longer if I bought on, that's something :D
<I'm kidding Sam>
Thanks GlockWRX! I look forward to other assessments as well, like from GotM4.
Like I said above, I would love to just spend the money on an M&P and become a better shooter. It's a hell of a lot easier than taking the time to practice. If the M&P will make me a better shooter I'm all for it. I just don't think that is the case.
Of course if I bought one I wouldn't be called a booger eater any longer if I bought on, that's something :D
<I'm kidding Sam>
Awwwww....Don't worry, you'll always be a booger eater to me!
I'm with you, I've got some Glocks and shoot them well. There is no reason for me to switch. The M&Ps are good guns, no doubt, but not good enough to justify the cost and effort of switching from the Glock. I'll look closely at the .45 version when it comes out, but in 9mm I'll stick with I've got.
Even if I do have to eat my own boogers.
I think enough of you know me well enough to know that I am not one to drop something or jump on the newest, latest, and greatest bandwagon for everything that comes out, hence my post here. I'm not one to think that a new weapon will make me a better shooter.
I am always open to something better. Thats what I am trying to determine. I have read enough that my curiosity and interest is peaked enough to cause me to want to look into the weapon.
Cant say that I would completely switch to anything right now, and drop my Glocks. I could see though getting an M&P, should enough info convince me, to add to the safe to get some range time with and go from there. If that should eventually lead to a complete switch, then so be it, but thats a different discussion for a different time.
GlockWRX, your info was what I am looking for. First hand range time, regardless of amount, so long as its noted. You r post saying that you had shot one, but only 100 rounds, is perfect. Much different than someone saying that they had shot one and making it sound like a few thousand rounds when in fact it wasnt. Much easier to classify and use info when its put forth such as yours, so thanks.
Marc....go eat a booger and simmer down. :D Woosaaa, woosaaa...........
I switched over from Glocks to M&Ps.
I find the recoil to be less with the M&Ps, the grip angle adds to uniformity when I shoot other guns, the grip was made for human hands, the sights are better stock for stock, the trigger breaks cleaner, mag changes are easier, the beavertail feels good to me, and it's American made and designed. Another big factor that swayed me to the M&P is the potential for a great trigger. I am much more accurate at further distances (15-25 yards) with my M&P offhand over a small frame Glock and slightly more than a large frame Glock. Plus I got my first M&P without mag safety or mag disconnect for $369 + other fees :)
On the down side the stock trigger has a much longer reset than the 5.5lb Glock Connector imo. This is correctable however. Also, magazines are more expensive for the M&P, but it is still a new gun. I also like the newer teflon finish on the new Glocks over the M&P finish, however my M&P shows no signs of wear at all from thousands of draws from my Comptac holster.
Old and Busted with New Hotness ;)
http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/9924/1106061851sk5.jpg
http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/8009/1106061849fw8.jpg
On the down side the stock trigger has a much longer reset than the 5.5lb Glock Connector imo. This is correctable however.
Please elaborate. That was my primary gripe with the trigger. If that can be corrected, I'd love to know how.
http://www.burwellgunsmithing.com/M&P1.htm
Cool, thanks! I'd be interested to try that out. An M&P .45 with the ambi-safety and that trigger job would a slick package.
Actually it's not that hard to switch from Glocks to something else. I used to carry a G26 for the summer, bought a CZ PO1 and now the Glock will just be in the safe now for trade or sell bait later on. The CZ is just that much better for me, grip angle and trigger to me sucks on the Glock...
My feeling, and apparently I'm WRONG, is that if you have something that works for you stick with it. If the M&P offers you something that you can't get with a GLOCK or any other handgun (like H&K, 1911, XD, etc) then have at it.
From what I can tell the M&Ps are great and I would love to try one but at this stage I don't have a NEED to switch. I think my time would be better spent using what I have instead.
__________________
Apparently I'm a first time gun owner, booger eater, short bus rider and GLOCK koolaid drinker that doesn't have a clue.
You forgot the padded helmut!:eek:
Not to say that I would never try any new product, I agree as well.
It's easy to "want" everything that's new for no other reason. Again, if something works for you, then get it. For some, keep like items utilized for work/defense.
I will always hold that if you have a good grasp on the fundemental's, you can pick up anything and shoot it and shoot it well. If you are used to shooting brand x, you maybe a tad slower with brand y for a short time. Everyone likes different weapons for alot of reasons, one being that it simply fits their hands well(good reason).
To me, the only feature I see as an advantage on the M&P is the elongated area by the tang.
Mark
Business_Casual
12-04-06, 17:55
I'd be interested if the magazines were readily available for less than $20 like Glock mags are. Anyone know what the retail on full-capacity mags is? I think it's around $30+.
M_P
Most places go for $35. Bud's Gun Shop has them every so often at $29. S&W has a magazine offer and the price is running ~$29 with a limit of 5.
Remember, Glock magazines have been on the market for a MUCH longer period, while the M&P has been out for roughly one year.
Robb Jensen
12-04-06, 21:10
I'd be interested if the magazines were readily available for less than $20 like Glock mags are. Anyone know what the retail on full-capacity mags is? I think it's around $30+.
M_P
M&P mags are about $38 ea where I work, Beretta mags vary from high $20s to $38, HK mags $44-49, SIG mags are typically $42.00 All are metal and more expensive to make than plastic Glock mags that are $24.00 Honestly how often have you worn out a pistol mag? I now have 10 M&P9 mags. For my match guns I typically only own 6 or so. My STI .40 mags (which are tuned, think like a race car) are $70-$100 each.
The mag cost isn't that big of a deal, imo. They don't cost too much more than some and less than others (like SIG and HK). What I would like to see is a lot of shops selling factory replacement parts. That's one of the reasons I really like the Glocks: factory parts are inexpensive and easy to obtain. I'd like to see a TopMP or MPmeister someday (and if Smith was smart, they'd make it easy for dealers to set up accounts).
The good news is that the gun is generating a lot of buzz and shooters seemed to be pretty enthusiastic about it. Hopefully, this will push the aftermarket to support it with holsters and accessories. Even if I never own one, I'm glad to see it take off. Competition is good for everyone.
M&P mags are about $38 ea where I work, Beretta mags vary from high $20s to $38, HK mags $44-49, SIG mags are typically $42.00 All are metal and more expensive to make than plastic Glock mags that are $24.00 Honestly how often have you worn out a pistol mag? I now have 10 M&P9 mags. For my match guns I typically only own 6 or so. My STI .40 mags (which are tuned, think like a race car) are $70-$100 each.
<cough>$15 XD mags<cough>
What I would like to see is a lot of shops selling factory replacement parts.
The good news is that the gun is generating a lot of buzz and shooters seemed to be pretty enthusiastic about it. Hopefully, this will push the aftermarket to support it with holsters and accessories. Even if I never own one, I'm glad to see it take off. Competition is good for everyone.
Totally agree, competition is always good. There are a very wide compliment of holsters already.
For parts:
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/schematics/schemmfg.aspx?schemid=859&m=15&mn=Smith+%26+Wesson%c2%ae&model=M%26P+(Semi-Auto)+
Also Dan Burwell has some parts as well as the M&P Store.
Robb Jensen
12-05-06, 06:21
<cough>$15 XD mags<cough>
Maybe online. I work at a brick and mortar store, I think we sell them at $24, IIRC cost on them is almost $20.
Please share your source for new $15 round XD mags. I'll need some for my 4" XD45acp that's on the way.
I'm not willing to give up my Glocks, yet. I notice that every time I pick up my Glock, it just feels right to me. It shoots better than I do, so why change from one striker fired pistol to another?
I'm not willing to give up my Glocks, yet. I notice that every time I pick up my Glock, it just feels right to me. It shoots better than I do, so why change from one striker fired pistol to another?
Same here, hence my curiosity on the M&P. If it will offer me something more, then I dont want to overlook it, but if not, I dont want to waste time and money on it.
The answer is really dependant on you. If you don't feel the M&P is going to offer you something the Glock doesn't then there is no reason to get an M&P.
While I have spent the better part of 9 years or so carrying a Glock almost daily (issue gun is a 23) I find the M&P does offer some things the Glock doesn't for me.
I find the grip angle on the M&P to be nearly identical to the 1911s I also carry. The first time I picked one up it just felt right. The interchangeable backstraps are neat...if you need to find one gun for an entire department. Of course if the Glock feels okay in your hand that's a non-issue. When shooting Glocks I often would rip open the web of my hand. After years of S&W autoloaders and 1911s with beavertail grip safeties I grip rather high on the backstrap of the gun. The M&P grip eliminates this problem.
I like the fact that the M&P sights are not plastic. I can't tell you how many front and rear sights I have had to replace on Glocks since we switched to them. All my Glocks wear Heinie straight or slant eights which eliminates the problem. Plastic sights...what was Gaston thinking? (Besides the obvious cost savings...)
Now before you think I'm drinking at the cool aid well of M&P allow me to add that the stock trigger just sucks! I find the over travel and reset to be pretty much unacceptable out of the box. Luckily it is an easy gun to perform a trigger job on that will reduce the overtravel and reset w/o making the trigger too light for serious social work or if you choose, down right light for competitive shooting.
What's the answer? I'm not sure. I own several Glocks and I don't see that ever changing. I also have two Smith M&Ps which I'm really starting to find enjoyable to shoot and more then adequate carry guns. If you are happy with your Glock, stick with it. If you think the M&P has something to offer, give it a shot. Luckily you don't have to marry your guns. Selling them off or trading them against new ones is much easier and less expensive then trading in the ex-wife!
Business_Casual
12-05-06, 12:47
"All my Glocks wear Heinie straight or slant eights which eliminates the problem. Plastic sights...what was Gaston thinking? (Besides the obvious cost savings...)"
He's probably thinking the BATFE are a bunch of assholes because the pistols are imported with target sights, which are removed and replaced with plastic ones; and the target sights get sent back to Austria for the next batch of imported slides. Has to do with "import points."
M_P
[QUOTE=modern_pirateHe's probably thinking the BATFE are a bunch of assholes because the pistols are imported with target sights, which are removed and replaced with plastic ones; and the target sights get sent back to Austria for the next batch of imported slides. Has to do with "import points."
M_P[/QUOTE]
Actually that only applies to the "mini" Glocks. They (the minis) are all imported with the adjustable sights due to their size and importaztion points. That's also why they have the goofy "target thumb rest" molded into the grips...more import points.
Of course that doesn't change the fact that the plastic sights are lacking...
I shoot very reliable and durable 9 mm Glocks and .45 ACP 1911's. On the other hand, none of the available .40 S&W pistols were too exciting...until the M&P. The M&P is proving to be a reliable, ergonomic, high capacity, soft-shooting, rail-equipped .40 caliber pistol that doesn't tend to have the problems associated with Glocks in calibers other than 9 mm. For me it fills a role that other pistols had not yet met.
Here's my Take on the M&P 40 I got to take for a test run back in Jan of this year I reposted from an older thread on another forum
Stroke of Luck I went shooting this weekend with a few guys and one had a M & P .40 that he got for his dept for T & E and he had a case of ammo. He wanted to get some guys to shoot it up and I was happy to comply.
Now I'm no Expert, but I know what I like and have shot a handgun A time or two. My first Impression
-excellent ergonomics. I tried al three grips and the medium was the best for me. over all the pointability is excellent. it fit in my Gcode G17 Holster so I got a chance to draw and fire. very nice, well balanced, easy to maintain a good grip and easy to control in rapid fire. The interchangable grip pieces swap out fast. Turn the lip on the bottom of the grip 90Degrees and pull it out and the grip pops right off. Takes 10 seconds to change out.
- Sights were Nice, the front sight was a little hard to see compared to the rear. Not a show stopper, but I would need to fix that.
- trigger was pretty sweet. Crisp. I agree with Rob, the reset was a little long and I found my self pressing back a few times before resetting. Definetly not a Glock trigger. The reset distance could be shorter.
- Mag catch is nice and ambidexterous. Easy to reach and operate. I like it better then that litle square one on my G17....
-Slide release is recessed , don't plan on using it to release the slide as it's easy for your thumb to miss it. ( I pull the slide back ala sling shot anyhow)
-Accuracy was very good, even in rapid fire I was able to keep them in a 2-3 " circle at 5-7 yds.
Now for the Negative, I only ran about 300 rds thru it, but I had the slide lock back with one or two rds still left in the magazine, this happened several times. (at least 4-5 times) now their was only 3 mags with the pistol and we were not keeping track of the mags, so it may be magazine issues.
I stopped to show the the Malfuction each time it happened. The guys watched me to make sure I was not riding the Slide release while shooting, and that was not it. My thumbs were to short to reach it with my grip anyhow.
I did run about 3-4 mags thru in rapid succession on steel at 25yds and had the pistol pretty warmed up (treated it like a rental car... )
Another issue was the roll pin in the frame for the Block was working it'ts way out. it had to be punched back in several times. According to the officer who had it for T& E he told the reps about the roll pin working out and was told he's the first one to have mentioned it as an issue. it worked out about 1/16" for me after about 150-200 rds using the Federal supplied Factory ammo we were shooting thru it. Some one else had asked in this thread about that, so I'm now wondering if someone else is having the issue.
And finally, the hinged two peice trigger. everyone who shot it mentioned how the trigger abraded on the bottom front pad of everyone's trigger finger. I have a nice little Blister as I type this on my finger fron only 300 rds.... :
This trigger does not press straight back, but from the two piece hinge design rotated up as it's coming back.
Overall I thought it was a sweet little shooter. Never liked mag safeties, but it sounds like a model will come out with out one. If the price point is not going to be competitive with Glocks, it may be a tough sell.
Just my Humble Impression
I have to much invested in Mags for My Glock to think about switching for what little bit I would gain from this pistol.. just my $02 Nor would it make me a better shooter.
Hawkeye,
I'm in the same boat as you. I'm also a long time Glock user and carry one every day but I also have been keeping and eye on the M&P and so far I like what I've seen.
I recently got to put a couple of hundred rounds through an M&P 9 and it made me more of a believer. Oh, I'm not giving up my Glock's either but I may need to add an M&P to my collection soon.
The one thing that really stood for me is the ergonomics of the M&P. When I grip the M&P it just feels like it was made for my hand and it also naturally points really well for me too.
As far as ergonmics go I would say that it's almost like comparing the AK(Glock) and the AR(M&P). Maybe not that bad but you get what I'm saying.;)
Again, the only thing that's still in question is how it will do in the long run...
Yojimbo, I agree. The feel of the grip area is one thing that did feel good to me on the M&P. Ergonomics of it are definitely nice.
Like I said above, I would love to just spend the money on an M&P and become a better shooter. It's a hell of a lot easier than taking the time to practice. If the M&P will make me a better shooter I'm all for it. I just don't think that is the case.
Who ordered Crow for dinner?
Some of you guys might be a little surprised on who I just shot an M&P 9mm with this evening.
FYI – It was his, fresh out of the box....... and he loved it.
Answer: It was M4arc himself. :D
IMO - It was my first experience with the M&P 9mm also and I came away very impressed. It is one hell of a handgun.
I would never lie to you guys. I just have to say I told you so. :D :cool:
ETA: Imagine that same gun with better sights, 3 lb. trigger and a short, 1911-type reset, with 1/2 the recoil, and that's gotm4's competition pistol. We have four now, and I expect it to grow.
Who ordered Crow for dinner?
Some of you guys might be a little surprised on who I just shot an M&P 9mm with this evening.
FYI – It was his, fresh out of the box....... and he loved it.
Answer: It was M4arc himself. :D
IMO - It was my first experience with the M&P 9mm also and I came away very impressed. It is one hell of a handgun.
Surprised? Nah, we know M4arc has no willpower when it comes to buying new guns!
:D
Okay, okay, okay...
I'll admit when I'm wrong and I'll accept all the ribbing. Like Doc said, I don't need much of an excuse to buy a new gun. I actually bought this one last week but I just picked it up yesterday. I'll provide a more detailed Range Report later but let me just say that I'm impressed!
ETA: I owe Sam an apology for giving him a hard time in the other thread as well as eating my Crow. Whoever said you can't have your Crow and eat it too? :o
Robb Jensen
12-08-06, 21:21
Crow tastes good especially w/Pace Picante sauce and salt & pepper ;) .
Just keep an open mind, never stop learning, 'the M&P is a way', it isn't 'the way'.
The pistol is only good as it's shooter. If you can shoot well you can shoot a Glock well, if you can shoot well you can shoot an M&P well.
Glocks are still great and I still enjoy mine and always will, I still carry one but I also sometimes carry my M&P40 or M&P9c.
Okay, okay, okay...
I'll admit when I'm wrong and I'll accept all the ribbing. Like Doc said, I don't need much of an excuse to buy a new gun. I actually bought this one last week but I just picked it up yesterday. I'll provide a more detailed Range Report later but let me just say that I'm impressed!
ETA: I owe Sam an apology for giving him a hard time in the other thread as well as eating my Crow. Whoever said you can't have your Crow and eat it too? :o
If the bastion of Glock has fallen, what hope do I have?
Is resistance really futile?
If the bastion of Glock has fallen, what hope do I have?
Is resistance really futile?
HUH! :D
Based on my limited experience at this point I would say that at the very least test drive an M&P. I'm not selling my Glocks by any means but I am very impressed so far with the M&P 9mm. If you're down this way anytime soon you are more than welcome to abuse mine for awhile. I want to put this thing through the ringer.
Dang, don't you sleep in? I'm first in line for the Glocks!
Dang, don't you sleep in? I'm first in line for the Glocks!
The little man had hockey practice at 7:30am and the damn dog woke me up at 0500 to pee. I figured I'd just stay up and drink coffee because if I went back to bed I would have overslept.
It felt good to sleep at all last night after my marathon the night before! I'll get some ammo together for the M&P, boss gave me a pass--
speaking of coffee, if you are by Fairfield, check out the Beach Brew. Get a Tosora, something like that-4 shots of expresso
Bumping this because I am still curious about them... :D
John_Wayne777
01-29-07, 13:04
Hopefully mine will be through touring the country by the end of the week so I can post an initial review...
I am up probably over 1000 rounds in mine now, including 250 last night with the new warren tactical sights I had gotm4 install.....
this gun is probably now tied with the RRA 1911 as my favorite handgun...i carry the 9mm M&P pretty much exclusively now...whereas I am a 1911 nut at heart, it just isnt practical for me to lug around a 44 oz gun...plus, as I approach needing surgery on my right hand/wrist, the weight of the M&P is fantastic, and whatever they did to manage recoil makes it the best for me in that department as well...
of course this could all change when the M&P 45 is available...I ask the folks at VA Arms when they are available everytime I am there...
Hopefully mine will be through touring the country by the end of the week so I can post an initial review...
Is bet the box is going to look like one of the shipping crates you used to see in cartoons with a dozen different countries or states labels all over it.... :D
Hawkeye, if you want some indication as to how the M&P compares to Glocks read my comments earlier in this thread and then read this: M4arc's M&P9 Range Report! (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=2747)
You can clearly see how the M&P is winning me over. I have just a little under 1000 rounds through mine now and with the exception of one issue (a FTE while Mark5pt56 was shooting it) I'm very happy with it. Ergonomics are far superior and after shooting it for awhile I went back and shot my G19 and I found that I constantly readjust my grip on the Glock while I'm shooting! I don't do this with the M&P.
The biggest drawback for me is spare parts and accessories. Magazines are harder to find and they are at least $30 each so it's a far cry from $13 Glock mags. Spare parts; recoil springs, mag springs, etc are now found at Brownells so its not as bad as it used to be...it's getting better and I'm willing to bet that the more they sell and the more PDs that use them the more spare parts will pop up.
Holsters are still tough to find but they too are getting better. My CTAC should be here this week but you're looking at a 25-28 week wait for a VMII! Companies like Blade-Tech are fully on board with the M&P offering everything from drop leg to IWB and OWB. Their new Revolution holster for the M&P is the cat's ass!
Companies like Blackhawk sell the CQC for the G21/M&P so your current G21 holsters just might work for an M&P9! Others like Safariland require "minor" modifications. There was a list of Safariland part numbers on 10-8 so I'll try and find them again and post them in the Handgun forum for everyone.
All in all I'm very impressed with the M&P and I'll continue to "evaluate" mine. Believe me, I tried not to like it...I tried to find reasons to hate it but I just can't find much fault with it :p
A while ago I switched back to Glocks...as the wife and kids got into handguns..
wanted to keep to keep the same weapons...manual of arms...and supply chain
as simple as possible..
I guess the Smitty would have to offer something far and above the Glocks to get me switch over...
NCPatrolAR
01-29-07, 18:43
For the M&P, the suffix is 219 for the 6280, 6004, etc class of holsters.
John_Wayne777
01-30-07, 10:45
Is bet the box is going to look like one of the shipping crates you used to see in cartoons with a dozen different countries or states labels all over it.... :D
I half expect to get a phone call saying it is in New Zealand... :mad:
It was a hard move for me but I’ve completely switched over to M&P’s for my 9mm handgun needs. Like many have already stated the far superior ergonomics of the Smith & Wesson swayed me. Not to mention the better trigger feel of the M&P. Reliability has been perfect so far, but I only have a few hundred through mine. A lack of holsters, mag pouches, and spare mags had kept the round count this low. Now my G19 is now resting comfortably as my wife’s bump in the night gun so my personal M&P’s round count should start climbing.
I am keeping my 9 mm Glocks, in large part due to magazine and parts availability, especially overseas. On the other hand, I like my American pistols in U.S. calibers beginning with a .4_. The S&W M&P .40 is the only .40 cal pistol I would choose to own and use--it is a nearly perfect pistol. The new M&P .45 is also looking to be a strong contender...who knows, it may even replace my 1911's.
I am kicking myself now for not looking closer at the M&P 45's at SHOT. I only briefly checked them out, but wish I have went over them more in depth.
M&P mag availability is certainly an issue. The days of cheap $12 mags are over. I have not been able to find an M&P mag for under $33. That being said I don’t consider it to be the end of the world. I’m not going overseas so it’s a pain I can live with for now. When I can accumulate eight high cap mags for my M&P I’ll be happy.
I stated earlier the availability of mags and spare parts does suck when you compare it to Glock but Brownells has started stocking them and I ordered a a spare recoil spring and some other small items this weekend so it's getting "better".
While I'm not going to get rid of my Glocks now that my IWB holster has arrived I'm going start carrying my M&P on a regular basis so my Glocks will be seeing more of the inside of the safe :)
John_Wayne777
01-30-07, 16:32
I am keeping my 9 mm Glocks, in large part due to magazine and parts availability, especially overseas. On the other hand, I like my American pistols in U.S. calibers beginning with a .4_. The S&W M&P .40 is the only .40 cal pistol I would choose to own and use--it is a nearly perfect pistol. The new M&P .45 is also looking to be a strong contender...who knows, it may even replace my 1911's.
...That's mighty high praise....
who knows, it may even replace my 1911's.
I can't believe you said that...lol...
I really need a smaller caliber to replace a G21, this M&P 9 is looking good.
Is there that much difference in the 9 vs the .40 in felt recoil.? I have rented the .40 but was all over the target and was shooting it back to back with my G21. I was not happy but I love the way the M&P feels in the hand.
Good post LOKNLOD!
As you stated, I'm the weakest link when it comes to shooting, not my handguns. I learned that lesson when I switched from H&Ks to GLOCKs several years back. Now I understand that it's all about practice, practice, practice.
When I stop becoming the weakest link and contribute my inabilities to hardware then it will be time to switch. Maybe I'm wrong...maybe I'll pick up and M&P and say this does make me a better shooter. That would be awesome because it's a lot easier for me to spend money than it is for me to spend time practicing.
Good post. I switched from Glocks to Sigs and now back to Glocks again. The Sigs are great guns, but it just wasn't for me. The Glocks are easier for me to conceal, lighter, and I can shoot them just as well.
I will report back in this thread later though. Friend of mine (my gun dealer), wants me to come take an M&P out back and try it out. So I'm going to see what it has to offer.
Good post. I switched from Glocks to Sigs and now back to Glocks again. The Sigs are great guns, but it just wasn't for me. The Glocks are easier for me to conceal, lighter, and I can shoot them just as well.
I will report back in this thread later though. Friend of mine (my gun dealer), wants me to come take an M&P out back and try it out. So I'm going to see what it has to offer.
You didnt read this whole thread.... did you. ;)
You didnt read this whole thread.... did you. ;)
I must admit, no. I seen the part about switching from HK's to Glock's, and thought I'd throw in my similar experience.
But Im heading by the shop this morning, so I should be able to give a range report on the M&P byt the time I get home from work tonight.
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