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PA PATRIOT
02-04-09, 19:38
Quick question, local indoor range allows 5.56 Hollow Points to be fired on their 50yd indoor back stop. Now most say Wolf 5.56 Hollow point loads are nothing more then a FMJ that had its nose cut off and it will not break-up or expand. I called to Wolf and they claim their 5.56 version 55gr and 62gr loadings will expand and are recommended for varmint hunting. Has anyone recently fired any Wolf 5.56 into Jell and did it break-up as Wolf clams it will. I know there is other, better 5.56 H/P's to be had but this is what I can afford to buy and train with and have several cases on hand.

Jim from Houston
02-04-09, 20:02
I'm not familiar with ballistics tests for the Wolf hollowpoints, but I do have something to add regarding Wolf and indoor ranges:

Be sure to ask the range very specifically if they have an issue with Wolf...a lot of Wolf bullets (I'm not sure if its all of them, or just some) use steel jackets...steel jackets, as opposed to brass, supposedly make bullets more prone to ricochet, and as a result, I know of several ranges that will "magnet test" rounds before they let them out on the range...most Wolf ammo, to my knowledge, will NOT pass such a magnet test...don't know if this is relevant with your range, but call and ask them about this specific issue before you buy a large quantity of Wolf...

Don't know if this will end up being an issue, but I just wanted to give you a heads-up about magnet tests and Wolf ammo...

buzz_knox
02-04-09, 20:29
Wolf ammunition generally uses steel cases, not jackets. The bullets themselves are copper jacketed.

Jim from Houston
02-04-09, 20:39
Wolf themselves don't claim that all of their bullets are copper jacketed.

http://www.wolfammo.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=76&Itemid=115

Some are, the "Gold Line" are...the rest have a jacket that may APPEAR to be pure copper but is billed by Wolf as "bimetal", and is usually found to be magnetic...some ranges, in my experience, have a problem with that due to presumed steel content...that's all I'm saying...

But the notion that all Wolf bullets use pure copper jackets is contradicted even by Wolf's own information...

buzz_knox
02-04-09, 20:52
I could easily be wrong. I had thought that the bimetal refers to copper wash over a lead base. I'm aware of some surplus ammunition that had steel jacketed rounds but I didn't think Wolf had any.

Zhukov
02-04-09, 21:08
I posted a pretty lengthy review of the ammo over on Arfcom, along with some sectioned bullets and shots into water jugs: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=406469

Marcus L.
02-04-09, 21:10
Euro countries, particualarly eastern ones are known for using a jacket alloy of many cheap metals. Copper is needed, and used in minimal amounts to keep the alloy malleable enough to allow for the bullet to press into the rifling without wearing out the barrel prematurely. However, since the Russians in particular have more mineral resources in iron than copper, iron is used in as much of their ammunition construction as possible. In fact, it was due to the use of these jacket alloys that which wore out barrels faster that led the Russians to develope chrome lined barrels.

As far as Wolf military classic ammo goes, it is a VERY inconsistant performer even with the JHP. I don't have any gel tests to show, but I've shot quite a few rabbits and gophers with it. Most of the time it zipped through the rodents leaving only a small exit wound very similar to that of a .22 magnum. It may have tumbled, but it certainly didn't fragment or expand. About 1 in 5 hits it actually did break apart and create a more tramatic wound. Certainly not as good as a Hornady OTM or even M193/M855. I really woundn't trust it for anything other than training ammo, or if there was absolutely nothing else available.

If you are interested in 7.62x39, the Wolf MC is a pretty decent load. It tumbles early and does much better than the M43.

RogerinTPA
02-04-09, 21:17
I'm not familiar with ballistics tests for the Wolf hollowpoints, but I do have something to add regarding Wolf and indoor ranges:

Be sure to ask the range very specifically if they have an issue with Wolf...a lot of Wolf bullets (I'm not sure if its all of them, or just some) use steel jackets...steel jackets, as opposed to brass, supposedly make bullets more prone to ricochet, and as a result, I know of several ranges that will "magnet test" rounds before they let them out on the range...most Wolf ammo, to my knowledge, will NOT pass such a magnet test...don't know if this is relevant with your range, but call and ask them about this specific issue before you buy a large quantity of Wolf...

Don't know if this will end up being an issue, but I just wanted to give you a heads-up about magnet tests and Wolf ammo...

A lot of ranges reload there own brass and want to sell it to you. It's a BS gimmick to prevent you from using your Wolf and buying their ammo. They also don't want to separate brass from steel empties. I find this stupid rule at only ranges who reload their own ammo. Wolf has the same ricochet potential as any projectile launched from a firearm. If the indoor range can't handle a ricochet from getting back to the firing line, I would not go there, for it is not correctly designed to be a safe indoor range.

Jim from Houston
02-04-09, 21:21
buzz - "Bimetal" can mean any number of things...it can mean tombac, which is a copper/zinc alloy, or, as you say, there is also copper washing...

The issue, however, is that copper is not magnetc, zinc is not magnetic, and lead is not magnetic...yet, as Zhukov found in his review that was just posted, and as I have found, most Wolf ammo IS magnetic...so make of that what you will...either the jacket or the core has some sort of mild steel component, most likely...

None of this is really a huge deal...the main thing ranges are looking for when they magnet test ammo is the genuine steel core penetrator stuff, like M855 green tips...those will really chew up metal targets or an indoor backstop...

What I was saying was simply that Wolf Ammo, fairly or unfairly, will often not pass the magnet test...

All of which may or may not be an issue...I just think it would be a good idea for Phila PD to check this out with his indoor range before he makes a big purchase of Wolf...

Zhukov - Great stuff...as usual, your tests are some of the best ammunition content on the net...

warpigM-4
02-04-09, 22:30
this is some 62gr FMJ wolf i just got from AIM it Fails the magnet test

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h86/PFC-JB/029.jpg

Parabellum9x19mm
02-05-09, 01:43
nevermind

PA PATRIOT
02-05-09, 15:59
My 1000rd Cases of Wolf 5.56 are lacquered coated and the boxes all state "Copper Bullets" so I pulled out a strong magnet and touched every bullet at the nose and none were attracted to the magnet. Now the steel cases sure grabbed the magnet if I got too close to them.

PA PATRIOT
02-05-09, 16:12
I posted a pretty lengthy review of the ammo over on Arfcom, along with some sectioned bullets and shots into water jugs: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=406469


My cases of Wolf 5.56 are about 10yrs old and the jackets are copper and not bi-metal and since I'M shooting lighter bullets in the 55gr to 62gr weight maybe these guys would fragment enough to safely shoot on their backstop. Did you ever have the chance to shoot the lighter bullets into water?

Zhukov
02-06-09, 11:43
My cases of Wolf 5.56 are about 10yrs old and the jackets are copper and not bi-metal and since I'M shooting lighter bullets in the 55gr to 62gr weight maybe these guys would fragment enough to safely shoot on their backstop. Did you ever have the chance to shoot the lighter bullets into water?

No - but there was a test that brouhaha and tatjana did on Arfcom many years ago using calibrated ballistic gelatin that showed NO fragmentation: http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Ballistic_Gel_Experiments/Test2.html [ETA - the link is broken. I need to fix the content on the server when I get home tonight]

Although not included in that test, brouhaha told me that the Wolf 55gr HP didn't fragment either in his testing.

If my other review didn't mention it - the bullet jacket on the 75gr Wolf is definitely steel. Wolf switched over from copper/gilding metal to bimetal about a year and a half ago. All of the Military Classic line (Ulyanovsk) has been bimetal from the start.