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K9222
02-06-09, 19:34
I was wondering if anybody had any experience with a semi auto sniper rifle such as POF, SASS, or a custom ar-10. I have read several things about such rifles that state they (some) are just as accurate as bolt guns but after the first round is fired out of a semi gun the rest of the rounds tend to group together but usally about an inch lower. I've read about test in magazines and the test on the p308 from POF, and a custom GA ar10 grouped all shots about a .50 group(give or take) but i read two seperate articles on the SASS and each time the guns groups were tight but the first shot was a little higher and the author staed this is normal for a semi auto sniper gun. Just wondering whats the deal? For most LE, we only get one shot and I dont want mine (got a p308 on order) to be an inch or so high.

sinister
02-06-09, 20:55
A properly-built semi-automatic rifle puts all its bullets into a group -- no flyers, no "If I do my part," no bullshit.

Semi groups tend to be bigger than those from a bolt gun due to a whole lot more moving parts and vibration -- shooter follow-through is critical.

Semi-auto rifles tend to have longer lock time (using a pivoting hammer) as opposed to striker-fired bolt actions.

Bolt_Overide
02-07-09, 02:27
In my experience, no semi auto can compete with a purpose built bolt action precision weapon. That said however, the vast majority of purpose built semi auto precision weapons will outshoot the vast majority of shooters out there. I personally prefer semi because 1 im not doing it for a living anymore, and 2 its a damn sight more fun for me.

YMMV

oregonshooter
02-07-09, 02:47
I owned a GAP10 and a GAP Rock, the semi shot 1/4MOA @ 100 all day long. I never took it out past 100 though.

The Rock shot 1/3MOA out to 600yards all day long.

Both with Fed 175gr Match.

Mo_Zam_Beek
02-08-09, 02:17
For those that read over at the Hide, Lowlight had a really good thread going on the differences between shooting bolt gun and a gas gun. There were some good tips in it. One of the subjects touched on were the 3 recoil impluses with a gas gun as opposed to a single impluse with a bolt; and difference in recoil impluses between the last shot / bolt hold open with a gas gun. Another subtle issue is the placement of the trigger finger and what that really requires with respect to the PG on an AR style rifle. If you have average hands (like mine) you really won't be gripping the PG per say in order to get proper placement with the trigger finger. Anyway - it's worth the read.

I like the thought of AR style .308's - a square receiver, a good tube, and a good load - it should be very, very accurate.

LL has a POF - he seems to give it good marks. You might want to check in with him.

Good luck

03humpalot
02-08-09, 10:36
I have had a serious bug for .308 gas guns over the last few years. After screwing around with a stock Armalite i broke down and bought a used GAP AR10 and have been playing around with it. It is VERY accurate,like mentioned above you have to get used to firing them. Due to being over here i have not had the trigger time on it that i need to stay proficient on the platform. I plan to remedy that one of these days.

They recoil differently and with all the shit going on inside the rifle itself i have found that i must grip the rifle and pull it into the shoulder much tighter than i do with a bolt-gun. Most of our long gunners over here who grew up on bolt-guns have the same issues when moving over to the SR's as well.

The guns are very mechanically accurate,but it takes more from the shooters end to ensure hits downrange. JMHO.

CryingWolf
02-09-09, 20:51
Here is a youtube clip from Future Weapons on the History Channel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3qQB4b4Pgo

Not that it will totally replace bolt action sniper rifles but I am rather intrigued.

KevinB
02-09-09, 21:17
Personal experience with both KAC and Armalite rifles is that they easily hold under MOA, even out to distance. I will agree that a properly built gun will not have any POI shift during shoot a group.

I used to have a bolt gun made by Jerry Rice of NorCal Precision, the gun was laser and shot .25MOA easily. While I love gas guns, I have yet to find one that will do that, of course I am not shooting as much as I used to, so some of the rifles I've shot at work likley could have printed tighter, but they did easily under 1MOA.

MarshallDodge
02-09-09, 22:50
I don't think you are going to find a semi-auto that is more accurate than a bolt gun but the SA is not going to be far behind.

I have a DPMS LR-308 and enjoy shooting it more than a bolt gun.

A 100 yard 5-shot group on a bipod, no mods to gun:
http://home.comcast.net/~fun2shoot/targets/lr308_100a.jpg


A 200 yard 3-shot group on a bipod, no mods to gun:
http://home.comcast.net/~fun2shoot/targets/lr308_200yda.jpg

I upgraded the trigger (factory trigger is awful), stock, and grip since these targets and am thinking that it should help quite a bit. Now for the snow to melt so I can go try it out......:)

oregonshooter
02-09-09, 23:08
Show and tell time?
http://oregonshooter.com/share/ar10_first_group.jpg

My first group with the GAP AR-10 pictured below.
http://oregonshooter.com/share/AR10.jpg

MarshallDodge
02-09-09, 23:25
Show and tell time?
http://oregonshooter.com/share/ar10_first_group.jpg

Beautiful. That leaves little room for the bolt action crowd! :cool:

KevinB
02-10-09, 07:46
The one thing to remember - is unfortunately that the Mil requires CLP to be used.

For those who use CLP can attest, it will force first round fliers, at least CLP I have used (before I knew better) did do that, in both bolt guns and semi's.

Littlelebowski
02-10-09, 09:12
What rail/hand guard is that, OregonShooter?

KevinB
02-10-09, 09:48
What rail/hand guard is that, OregonShooter?

Badger Ordnance

DMR
02-10-09, 10:53
http://pro-patria.us/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/DMR_52gr_test.245194148_std.jpg

Semi's can turn in preety good performance. While the group above is not that impressive consider this.

1. First shot was from a oiled barrel resulting in two fliers out of 15 rounds fired.
2. Goup was fired quickly enough that the center black of the paster was obsured by the heat off the barrel. In other words I was holding center of the orange blob.
3. My 8 year old daughter was with me, result I was coming off the rifle between shot.

Finaly, this test rifle upper is a dreaded :eek:Model 1 Sales/E.R. Shaw :oheavy barrel with a MI free float tube, shooting Blue Box Black Hills ammo (differant load then zero). Taking out the oiled barrel fliers you have a 13 round rapid fire group that is just over MOA at 100 yards. That is the strong suit of the Semo Auto Sniper Rifle. Translated to operations it's engagement of small or fleeting targets engaged at clser ranges then traditional military sniper engagements.

Log books on your rifle are key to finding out about that shot, as are fouling shots.

That said I'm not as well versed as some of our other members. I'm still on the fence about getting a .308 semi system, being in a ban state doesn't help, but I'm going to take a look at the current gen of weapons coming out to include 6.5, 6.8 and .260 Rem.

My bolt gun is a .300 WM.

oregonshooter
02-10-09, 13:51
Badger is the maker of the forearm. Anyone that wants a free downloadable logbook, I have one I made on my website.

http://www.oregonshooter.com/index.php/articles/view/rifle_logbook/

Alaskapopo
02-18-09, 04:52
I was wondering if anybody had any experience with a semi auto sniper rifle such as POF, SASS, or a custom ar-10. I have read several things about such rifles that state they (some) are just as accurate as bolt guns but after the first round is fired out of a semi gun the rest of the rounds tend to group together but usally about an inch lower. I've read about test in magazines and the test on the p308 from POF, and a custom GA ar10 grouped all shots about a .50 group(give or take) but i read two seperate articles on the SASS and each time the guns groups were tight but the first shot was a little higher and the author staed this is normal for a semi auto sniper gun. Just wondering whats the deal? For most LE, we only get one shot and I dont want mine (got a p308 on order) to be an inch or so high.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=26508

No problem with first round flyers with my rifle.
Pat

KevinB
02-18-09, 08:09
I have never had a first round flier with a SASS. Some people insist on using CLP in the bore, and as a result that pushes first round fliers in any gun.

billy-s
02-19-09, 20:43
Hey guys, first post here:eek:

I used to be a sniper in the Canadian Mil. My old unit had several AR-10-T.

Accuracy was the same as our bolt guns, even with suppressors. We used 175 gr Federal Gold Match. The only thing you have to watch out for is the last round in the mag. If looking for absolute precision then go with a bolt gun. For battlefield domination at medium ranges then a sniper gas gun is ideal.

Another thing is the lesson of a pre-fire check. You should dry out the barrel and chamber as well as the bolt face prior to firing. This should cure any 'fliers'.

The pistol grip does getting used to if looking for 'ideal' trigger finger placement. The funny thing with me was before I shot I compressed my firing hand into a fist to 'clear' my wrist of any cracking that occurred during trigger manipulation because of the awkward grip. Does that make any sense?

taliv
02-24-09, 19:48
Last time I took my SR-25 out was in January.


http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/4377/sr25guf8.jpg
link to the thread about the rifle with more pics: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=16551



this was the only 5 rounds I shot at 600 yrds that day. It rained all day and was pretty foggy (and I forgot my shooting mat so was in the mud) but there was no wind. (at least, i didn't have any wind on the gun)

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/4117/sr25600ds5.jpg


ammo was 155g lapua scenar handloads

oh, and nobody was pulling my targets so i couldn't see my hits or i would have dressed it up a bit :)

Alaskapopo
02-24-09, 21:02
Last time I took my SR-25 out was in January.


http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/4377/sr25guf8.jpg
link to the thread about the rifle with more pics: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=16551



this was the only 5 rounds I shot at 600 yrds that day. It rained all day and was pretty foggy (and I forgot my shooting mat so was in the mud) but there was no wind. (at least, i didn't have any wind on the gun)

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/4117/sr25600ds5.jpg


ammo was 155g lapua scenar handloads

oh, and nobody was pulling my targets so i couldn't see my hits or i would have dressed it up a bit :)

I must say that is awsome shooting. Good job.
Pat

nemohunter
02-24-09, 22:25
My old PSG-1 wasa solid 1/4" gun with good ammo. no fliers at all. hell it would shoot Milsurp into MOA.

KevinB
02-25-09, 08:32
ah yes the PSG-1, the gun that costs $8,500 to rebarrel.

TacticalIntervention
02-25-09, 21:40
Kevin, long time no talk. Yes Jerry built some fantastic stick.

Out of the semi's I say get a KAC. Thay way you dont look back and say "I wish I bought the best"

Besides I like the look of a M110 with my sling on it. LOL

POF.Ops
02-27-09, 01:00
I'd say that it's good enough if in the right hands. ;)

taliv
02-27-09, 10:17
Besides I like the look of a M110 with my sling on it. LOL

i've been itching to try one of your slings. i've got a turner synthetic 1907 style on it now just because i had a couple of them laying around. it's not terribly practical though because i can't get in and out in under 30 minutes


I must say that is awsome shooting. Good job.

thanks Pat :)

I noticed you were running a similar leather sling on your GAP ar10. (and the same stock, monopod, bipod (with pod loc), etc )

funny how people think alike

how you like that forearm? is it light?

KevinB
02-27-09, 11:22
Mike, yes its been awhile. Jerry built a laser.

Your slings help do some remarkable things on our guns in far off lands :D