View Full Version : Want to compete in NoVa
Littlelebowski
02-09-09, 06:19
With my arm healing up, I want to start competing with a handgun purely to better myself. I want to shoot 9mm, production guns. Any tips/places to shoot, overall advice, generalized insults?
Robb Jensen
02-09-09, 08:58
With my arm healing up, I want to start competing with a handgun purely to better myself. I want to shoot 9mm, production guns. Any tips/places to shoot, overall advice, generalized insults?
Check out www.uspsa.com and www.idpa.com
We're in Area 8 of the USPSA areas and within Area 8 (http://www.uspsa8.org/) and we're in the VA/MD section.
I shoot USPSA at Fredericksburg and in Strasburg VA (North Mountain). Once in a while I shoot USPSA in NC (at Blackwater and Sir Walter) and PA (York and Topton) as well. I have gone as far as Harvard MA for a USPSA Multigun match before.
The next Fredericksburg USPSA match is typically not until March 09 and it's always on the 1st Sunday of the month.
I shoot in:
Single Stack (1911 .45 auto)
Limited and Limited10 (STI .40 S&W)
Production (Glock 17 and S&W M&P9)
Open (M&P9L until it's Production legal)
ROCKET20_GINSU
02-09-09, 14:16
This is an awesome source for USPSA information, techniques, discussion, etc...
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?&CODE=00
for gear:
shootersconnection.com
dawsonprecision.com
mleshootingsports.com
all good sources!
I shoot USPSA production as well:
G34 9mm
TruGrip
Jentra plug
Warren/Sevigny sights, red F.O front
Comp-Tac OWB Holster
CR Speed everything else
I'll be picking up a production legal vanek trigger when I return.
*I ran the dawson ajustables for a while and liked them alot, but they were sharp and kept on scratching my inner forearm as I don't have ILS (Imaginary Lat Syndrome LOL! :D) They were really accurate and gave a clean sight picture, but they were slower for me an the W/S, and USPSA is really a speed game IMO.
GU
Littlelebowski
02-09-09, 18:21
So you can modify production guns a bit? What I'm aiming at is shooting production 9mm guns that I don't have to spend a ton of money modifying.
ROCKET20_GINSU
02-09-09, 18:48
You can modify production guns a bit...but not nearly as much as limited or open guns. As a general rule you can be very competitive in this div w/ a basic stock pistol.
here is a link to the rule book:
http://www.uspsa.org/rules/2008HandgunRulesindexed.pdf
Here is an excerpt from the production specific rules: I've bolded "most" of the important ones
4 Minimum bullet caliber / cartridge case length .38 cal. /
9x19 mm (0.354” x 0.748”)
5 Minimum bullet caliber for Major Not applicable
6 Minimum trigger pull No
7 Maximum size Handgun and all magazines
(revolvers are exempt) Yes (Since you have to use a Prod Div approved pistol, don't worry about this)
9 Maximum ammunition capacity Yes, maximum 10 rounds loaded in any magazine
after the start signal
10 Max. distance of handgun and mags/speed loaders from inner
side of belt Handgun and Mags - 2”
12 Restriction on position of holster and other equipment
(revolver speedloaders.moon clips are exempt), Yes, see Appendix E3
13 Optical/electronic sights permitted No, notch and post only
14 Installed flashlights permitted No
15 Compensators permitted No
16 Barrel ports permitted No
17 Slide ports permitted Yes, on factory-original approved models
18 Maximum weight Yes, 2 ounces over weight listed on approved
pistol list
19 Handgun specific approval for Division Yes - see Special Conditions
20 Holster restrictions •Suitable for everyday use. “Race gun” type
holster prohibited.•May not be manufactured or cut lower than,
and must cover the slide up to, ½” below the
ejection port (belt slide “Yaqui” type holster
exempt).
•Revolver holsters open no lower than halfway down the cylinder.
USPSA Handgun Rules, January 2008 Edition • 75
APPENDIX D4 — Production Division (Contd.)
Special conditions:
— Handguns with external hammers must be fully decocked at the start signal.
— Unless specifically authorized above, modifications are prohibited. Except
for Item 7, revolvers are subject to all restrictions above.
21 Authorized modifications
(Strictly limited to these items and their stated guidelines)
•Internal throating and polishing to improve accuracy,
reliability and function
•Sights – trimmed, adjusted, replaced, colored, or fiber-optic.
•Slide – refinishing. Milling of slide – only as required to insert sights.
•After-market slides and barrels – provided they are the same length, contour, and caliber as original factory standard.
•Grips – Internal beveling. Checkering, stippling, and addition of grip tape or grip sleeves. (see Appendix E4)
•Exchange of minor components (springs, safeties, slide stops, guide rods).
22 Specifically prohibited modifications and features
•Prototype and Single-Action-Only handguns.
•Disabling of any external safety or externally operated safety.
•External modifications or features such as weights or devices to control or reduce recoil (such as, but not limited to, thumb rests or components which could be used as such).
•Grips - Any addition or removal of material which changes the factory profile or adds function such as beavertail or thumb rest.
•External plugs (such as Seattle Slug).
•No magwell attachments or external flaring of the magwell. The lateral width of the well may not be more than 1/4” wider than the lateral width of the magazine.
To paraphrase all of this: approved prod handgun 9mm or greater in caliber. Everyone plays w/ 10 rd magazines, you can use standard cap magazines as long as you only load 10 rds. You can make "almost" any internal mod as long as its not visible from the outside and adds more than 2 oz to the original weight (trigger job included). You've got to use carry type holsters (OWB, IWB, Kydex, leather, etc.) but you can run race type magazine holders provided they are behind your hipbone (same w/ holster). On the outside you can add grip tape over the grip, and change the sights but thats just about all you can do on the outside of the gun. Butt plug for Glocks is fine as long as it doesn't extend past the frame.
hope this helps! and enjoy! USPSA is one of my hobbies that I enjoy the most!
Front sight! front sight! front sight!
GU
olivers_AR
02-11-09, 06:35
Setting the politics aside, there is a new range Silver Eagle Group in the Ashburn area that is starting to run USPSA/IPDA matches.
In the past, the NRA range has run some matches, haven't seen much traffic lately on matches.
With my arm healing up, I want to start competing with a handgun purely to better myself. I want to shoot 9mm, production guns. Any tips/places to shoot, overall advice, generalized insults?
da6dspanburg
02-11-09, 07:19
Setting the politics aside, there is a new range Silver Eagle Group in the Ashburn area that is starting to run USPSA/IPDA matches.
I have not been there, but here is the web page for the Silver Eagle Group:
http://www.silvereagle-group.com/
Matches at the NRA Range died down because they cannot get enough of their ROs (paid part time employees) to be there early enough on a Tuesday afternoon to set up.
I'm negotiating with the Range Manager to start teaching once-a-month evening classes at the range, and my hope is that we can find enough people from that group to begin running some "outlaw" IDPA-style matches. I wouldn't expect the matches before this Autumn, however.
The NRA Range folks may run matches before that time, however, depending on demand and scheduling.
I am the club president for the USPSA competitions at Silver Eagle Group. I have submitted affiliation documents to USPSA and expect that our classifiers will now count.
Next match is Wednesday, Feb. 18th, starting with a squad at 6 PM (10 shooters), followed by 7 & 8 PM squads. Please call (703) 723-5173 to sign up and reserve a time slot. For directions, please visit http://www.silvereagle-group.com/
As for renewed competition at the NRA basement range of Tr. 66: good work Todd G.! I hope you can get it re-started.
The NRA "IPSC style" match was my first match ever and I miss the events they held down in the basement (including occasional 3gun and bowling pin shoots). Match director Greg Wodak is a great guy and all of his shoots were consistently high quality.
If IDPA or "ipsc" returns to the NRA basement, it will always be "outlaw" or non-affiliated because the NRA as an organization is against you shooting at any "torso-shaped" targets unless you are an LEO (ie - the ban on any civilians participating in any NRA "Police Pistol Competitions or "PPC"). Also, NRA can't control USPSA or IDPA and therefore I do not believe they would ever allow an affliated match down in the basement. But nevertheless, I will always support Greg's shoots.
Littlelebowski: both USPSA and IDPA feature "classes" or Divisions that are intended for "close-to-bone-stock" 9mm guns. And both of these divisions limit the number of rounds you can load into the magazine at no more than 10 rounds. That limit not only allows a level playing field with states (and Canada) that still have an AWB, it also makes the playing field level between all brands of common 9mm carry guns.
Although there are other "Divisions" shooting the same match as you shoot, it is safe to just ignore them since you only compete against guns within your division (i.e. - it is meaningless if you shoot faster than the guy with a revolver since he only competes against other revolver shooters).
Don't change anything on your current 9mm. Just show up with the gun (unloaded), some extra magazines, a holster, belt magazine holders and 2 to 3 boxes of ammo.
Regards,
Douglas
olivers_AR
02-11-09, 20:15
Let us know what you need, might be able to scare up a few new outlaw shooters! How early on a Tuesday would setup need to begin?
PM or email me any details as they start to gel.
--Olivers_AR
Matches at the NRA Range died down because they cannot get enough of their ROs (paid part time employees) to be there early enough on a Tuesday afternoon to set up.
I'm negotiating with the Range Manager to start teaching once-a-month evening classes at the range, and my hope is that we can find enough people from that group to begin running some "outlaw" IDPA-style matches. I wouldn't expect the matches before this Autumn, however.
The NRA Range folks may run matches before that time, however, depending on demand and scheduling.
Congrats on getting things started!
I am the club president for the USPSA competitions at Silver Eagle Group. I have submitted affiliation documents to USPSA and expect that our classifiers will now count.
If IDPA or "ipsc" returns to the NRA basement, it will always be "outlaw" or non-affiliated because the NRA as an organization is against you shooting at any "torso-shaped" targets unless you are an LEO (ie - the ban on any civilians participating in any NRA "Police Pistol Competitions or "PPC"). Also, NRA can't control USPSA or IDPA and therefore I do not believe they would ever allow an affliated match down in the basement. But nevertheless, I will always support Greg's shoots.
The NRA Range was (and may still be) an affiliated IDPA club. It wasn't a USPSA club because they weren't in a position to pay mission count to USPSA HQ (which isn't required for IDPA). As for the target thing, it's never been an issue in matches. The only rule at the NRA Range is that targets cannot have human features (eyes, ears, arms) ... which is done because CNN could drop by at any time and the NRA doesn't need the bad press of people "shooting at humans" blah blah blah.
Let us know what you need, might be able to scare up a few new outlaw shooters! How early on a Tuesday would setup need to begin?
We're still a long way off from putting it together ... at this point, the range may not even sign off on it. We're hoping to start the monthly "training night" in April and should have a better idea after that. If I had to guess, setup would need to start around 2pm.
Failure2Stop
02-12-09, 20:42
There is a shitty little range North of Fredericksburg named, appropriately, "The Range". They run outlaw IDPA type shoots (or at least used to) when it isn't too cold. I think they were running them on Wednesdays. It's been a while since I was there.
FWIW- in IDPA I run an almost bone-stock G19 (just aftermarket Warren's). I would rather be good with what I carry than amazing with what sits in my safe. Then again, I ain't no Todd G either! I was shooting different guns in different divisions (1911, G35, M9, USPSA and IDPA), but when I get back in the states I am going to stay in Prodo with my duty gun, due to the truth of the SIMP.
The biggest step is to just do it. I wanted to do it for years, but always wanted to be "better" before I started. It took a boot in the ass from a GM to get me into it, and it was the best thing that ever happened to my pistol shooting. You probably have everything you need already.
Do it. . . do it.;)
Robb Jensen
02-12-09, 21:38
There is a shitty little range North of Fredericksburg named, appropriately, "The Range". They run outlaw IDPA type shoots (or at least used to) when it isn't too cold. I think they were running them on Wednesdays. It's been a while since I was there.
FWIW- in IDPA I run an almost bone-stock G19 (just aftermarket Warren's). I would rather be good with what I carry than amazing with what sits in my safe. Then again, I ain't no Todd G either! I was shooting different guns in different divisions (1911, G35, M9, USPSA and IDPA), but when I get back in the states I am going to stay in Prodo with my duty gun, due to the truth of the SIMP.
The biggest step is to just do it. I wanted to do it for years, but always wanted to be "better" before I started. It took a boot in the ass from a GM to get me into it, and it was the best thing that ever happened to my pistol shooting. You probably have everything you need already.
Do it. . . do it.;)
Did J just say he wears Prada? ;)
Did J just say he wears Prada? ;)
I don't think so, dude. Best I can remember from the last time he was in town, he couldn't have been wearing expensive shoes. He needs to wear stuff with really soft soles, otherwise he hurts his knuckles when he steps on them while walking.
Robb Jensen
02-13-09, 05:39
I don't think so, dude. Best I can remember from the last time he was in town, he couldn't have been wearing expensive shoes. He needs to wear stuff with really soft soles, otherwise he hurts his knuckles when he steps on them while walking.
Ah yes I did see him on some Geico commercials.
Littlelebowski
02-13-09, 05:46
Guys, I'm all over doing this I just have the matter of surgery next week to contend with. I will be starting competition of some sort, just looking for the best place to start with a stock Glock 9mm.
Robb Jensen
02-13-09, 06:03
Guys, I'm all over doing this I just have the matter of surgery next week to contend with. I will be starting competition of some sort, just looking for the best place to start with a stock Glock 9mm.
The first USPSA 09 Fredericksburg match will be in March. To get on the email list give Tino an email at bad320ATaol.com
If you're up to it come and and shoot, if not stop by and watch. It's an all day match with 7 stages. A typical stage is there 18-32 rounds unless it's a classifier which are much smaller. Match fee is $20
I hope you're able to pull this off Todd. I'd be a regular customer.
Raja
Matches at the NRA Range died down because they cannot get enough of their ROs (paid part time employees) to be there early enough on a Tuesday afternoon to set up.
I'm negotiating with the Range Manager to start teaching once-a-month evening classes at the range, and my hope is that we can find enough people from that group to begin running some "outlaw" IDPA-style matches. I wouldn't expect the matches before this Autumn, however.
The NRA Range folks may run matches before that time, however, depending on demand and scheduling.
Lil'L: A stock 9mm Glock is suitable for just about any gun game that might interest you. It's one of (if not the) most popular guns in both IDPA and USPSA and can be shot in multiple divisions in both sports.
civilian: Things are looking good on the classes, submitted a formal proposal to NRA today. The match thing is very much in the embryonic stage, though.
Failure2Stop
02-14-09, 06:53
Did J just say he wears Prada? ;)
They're the new Danner!
I don't think so, dude. Best I can remember from the last time he was in town, he couldn't have been wearing expensive shoes. He needs to wear stuff with really soft soles, otherwise he hurts his knuckles when he steps on them while walking.
Hey, that's not fair. . .
but it is why I usually keep my hands in my pockets ;).
Seriously though Todd, it would be great to see a regular event held at the NRA.
Check out www.uspsa.com and www.idpa.com
I shoot in:
Single Stack (1911 .45 auto)
Limited and Limited10 (STI .40 S&W)
Production (Glock 17 and S&W M&P9)
Open (M&P9L until it's Production legal)
I shoot single stack 1911 (CDP) in IDPA. Most fun you can have with your close on :D
As for the target thing, it's never been an issue in matches. The only rule at the NRA Range is that targets cannot have human features (eyes, ears, arms) ... which is done because CNN could drop by at any time and the NRA doesn't need the bad press of people "shooting at humans" blah blah blah.
Hi Todd! I support what you are trying to set up and I will always support both types of combat pistol shoots down in the basement of the NRA HQ off Rt. 66. Didn't know that Greg managed to get his IDPA affiliated (good work on his part).
Just a point of clarification for everyone re: my earlier post:
UPSTAIRS at NRA HQ vs. DOWN IN THE BASEMENT range at NRA HQ:
Sure, you can shoot at torso targets - IN THE BASEMENT. But, what about the NRA - AS AN ORGANIZATION and the use of such targets?
The NRA opposes civilians shooting at torso targets.
How do I know?
First, the NRA offers the services of their "Range Safety Consultants" to all shooting ranges that are part of the NRA.
One of the suggested "Model Safety Rules" at such ranges is: "NO TORSO-SHAPED TARGETS" That rule (right from the NRA) is very common at MANY outdoor ranges. The AGC in Baltimore, representing dozens of clubs, adopts that NRA rule. Another NRA special is: "No rapid fire, i.e., no more than one shot per second."
Second, the NRA Competition Department bans civilians from their "Police Pistol Competition (or PPC)." Period. NO civilians allowed - even if you are a life member of the NRA. PPC uses the NRA B-27 Torso target.
So, do they allow torso targets in ANY of their civilian competitions? No. For civilians, (and to compete with USPSA), the NRA created "NRA Action Pistol" which culminates in the yearly international championship: the Bianchi Cup. Target used? The NRA "tombstone" shaped bulls-eye target - the same as used by GSSF.
Now, could all this effort to prevent civilians from shooting at torso targets be related to fear of CNN showing up?
Yes, in part. FEAR is really what is motivating the NRA here, I believe. For example, the NRA's only firarms class that came anywhere close to being suitable for CCW instruction always had a name that indicated how the NRA viewed the concept of civilians defending themselves from violent attacks with guns:
"NRA personal protection INSIDE THE HOME" (emphasis mine). No, I am not kidding - that was the ONLY personal protection class they offered until 2006. Problem was, by 1996, most of the states in the USA had adopted "shall issue" concealed carry of weapons/ permits laws - which allowed citizens to carry (though the NRA did not offer instruction).
In 2006, ten years' later, the NRA finally gave in and offered "Personal Protection Outside the Home. But, take a look at the legal disclaimer they have on their course description (from their website):
"Note: The Lesson III of the Personal Protection In and Outside The Home courses Firearms and the Law, and Legal Aspects of Self-Defense is conducted by an attorney licensed to practice law within the state in which this course is given and who is familiar with this area of the law, a Law Enforcement Officer (LEO) who possesses an intermediate or higher Peace Officer Standards and Training (POST) certificate granted within the state, or an individual currently certified to instruct in this area of the law by the state in which this course is presented.
NRA Certified Instructors may conduct this lesson only if they meet the requirements stated above and then only in their capacity as an attorney, or other state certified individual not in their capacity as an NRA Certified Instructor."
In sum: the NRA is taking the most careful, cautious, and non-controversial approach to the topic as possible.
Too cautious? Yes, in my opinion. But, then again, I am probably biased since I have shot almost exclusively at USPSA and IDPA torso targets since 2000 (same year I obtained a VA CCW to protect my family, my home and myself in the VA suburbs of violent D.C.). I also think that Vermont and Alaska have the right approach to concealed carry: if you can legally pass the NICS check and legally own a handgun, you have a right to not only "keep" that arm, but also to "bear" that arm in self defense (without asking for permission to excercise your right).
Is the NRA a great organization. No question (and their HQ range is outstanding).
Could they improve their outlook on some topics? I think so.
Robb Jensen
02-15-09, 14:31
Lil'L,
One of my VA Arms Teammates, myself and another guy are going to 'Xe' for a USPSA match (with a side rifle match) next Sunday if you want to go there with us. We leave at 6am from Fredericksburg and are usually home by 9pm. If you want to come along PM your whole name and addy, Xe security needs it for admission into the 'U.S Training Center'.
Robb
UPSTAIRS at NRA HQ vs. DOWN IN THE BASEMENT range at NRA HQ:
No question, there is a severe disconnect between the folks making those decisions at the NRA and the kind of serious shooters who frequent M4C.
The NRA's goal is to help ranges stay safe and politically feasible, thus the "no rapid fire" and "no humanoid targets" type of rules. It's unfortunate, but there you have it. I also agree about the competition section, it's disheartening to see so much of the NRA's best efforts and materials falling into the very us vs. them "only LE should have it" mentality that they're supposed to be fighting.
The NRA is a huge entity with a lot of institutional momentum to overcome. But the NRA Range is still the best place in NoVA to go shooting. :cool:
Littlelebowski
02-19-09, 08:00
Lil'L,
One of my VA Arms Teammates, myself and another guy are going to 'Xe' for a USPSA match (with a side rifle match) next Sunday if you want to go there with us. We leave at 6am from Fredericksburg and are usually home by 9pm. If you want to come along PM your whole name and addy, Xe security needs it for admission into the 'U.S Training Center'.
Robb
Still in the hospital but I'd sure like to hear about the next opportunities. Appreciate the invite, man. It'd be nice to see Louis as well if he's going to be there.
Littlelebowski
02-27-09, 22:16
Keep me updated about local matches.
Matches at the NRA Range died down because they cannot get enough of their ROs (paid part time employees) to be there early enough on a Tuesday afternoon to set up.
I'm negotiating with the Range Manager to start teaching once-a-month evening classes at the range, and my hope is that we can find enough people from that group to begin running some "outlaw" IDPA-style matches. I wouldn't expect the matches before this Autumn, however.
The NRA Range folks may run matches before that time, hwever, depending on demand and scheduling.
Todd - how are your talks with the NRA range going? Are you still planning to offer evening classes there?
Todd - how are your talks with the NRA range going? Are you still planning to offer evening classes there?
First class will be in May. Hopefully we'll set a date before the range reopens (it's closing down for the next two weeks). I'm sure we'll post something in the training/aar section when it is official.
Thanks Todd! Look forward to hearing more.
Didn't want to start another thread, but we finally got the last wrinkles ironed out and the first "Practice Session" has been announced for Tu 19-May. You can find details at practice.pistol-training.com (http://practice.pistol-training.com[/url). Thanks again for everyone's support and interest. We have really great expectations for this!
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.