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Buckaroo
02-10-09, 10:42
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/18677952/detail.html#-

DENVER -- For Marie Morrow, the equipment left in the back seat of her car was for an upcoming competition. She said she never expected it would lead to her being suspended from school -- or possibly expelled.

"I take responsibility, it was my mistake," Morrow told 7NEWS. She left three drill team "practice" rifles in plain view of passing students last week.

Morrow, who says she has a 3.5 grade point average, is a member of the Douglas County Young Marines. She said she spins the practice rifles for the organization’s drill team.

Staff members at Cherokee Trail High School were alerted by concerned students who thought they might be real, said a Cherry Creek Schools spokeswoman.

"They went inside. They were anxious. They were frightened," school district spokeswoman Tustin Amole said.

The mock rifles are made of wood, with duct tape, to resemble a real rifle.

Amole explained the school district’s policy mirrors state and federal laws about weapons in schools, and calls for "mandatory expulsion" when possessing a dangerous weapon in any school building.

A student conduct handbook states a dangerous weapon includes "a firearm, whether loaded or unloaded, or a firearm facsimile that could reasonably be mistaken for an actual firearm."

"You have to remember these laws were implemented in the years after Columbine," Amole said, and added the school was left with no choice.

"We follow the state law," Amole said.

"I understand exactly why the policy is there," Morrow said on the east steps of the state capitol Monday.

Chris Proctor, commanding officer of the Douglas County Young Marines, praised Morrow's commitment to the program and school.

"For her to have to go through this is completely insane," Proctor said.

The Young Marine Organization is the official youth program of the U.S. Marine Corps and focused on drug reduction and leadership, Proctor explained.

Morrow, dressed in her drill team uniform, visited the capitol to visit with lawmakers about the possibility of changing the state statute relating to weapons in schools.

"It should be up to the discretion of the school board to say, 'OK, there's no intent, it was just a mistake,'" Morrow said with her mom, brother, and friends looking on.

Morrow, who plans to attend the United States Merchant Marine Academy, met briefly with and gained support from several legislators on the hill.

Sen. Scott Renfroe, (R-Weld County,) said the 17-year-old was the topic of discussion among fellow senators.

"We need to look at this and add some common sense to our statute," Renfroe said.

Reps. Cindy Acree, (R-Aurora,) and Frank McNulty, (R-Highlands Ranch,) held an impromptu meeting with Morrow and her family inside the capitol.

Acree told 7NEWS she doesn't fault the school district for enforcing state laws.

"We just have to make sure it's not overbearing for our administrators and students, so they can still be kids," Acree said.

She explained she may seek to amend the state statute with a late bill during the current legislative session.

Acree added she is also writing a letter to colleagues "so we can support (Marie) before she goes to her hearing."

Amole said an expulsion hearing will be held within 10 days of a student suspension. An expulsion officer will make a recommendation to the superintendent, who will rule on the length of expulsion.

Morrow said she her expulsion hearing is Feb. 20.

"I'm just hoping I can go back to school and graduate with my class and take my AP tests and all that," she said.

sbiggs
02-10-09, 11:13
Apparently the ability to look at situations on an individual basis and use common sense has once again escaped us.:confused:

markm
02-10-09, 11:31
[url]
A student conduct handbook states a dangerous weapon includes "a firearm, whether loaded or unloaded, or a firearm facsimile that could reasonably be mistaken for an actual firearm."


What about a picture or drawing of a firearm? That could be just as deadly you know?

FromMyColdDeadHand
02-10-09, 11:59
Good lawyer would get you out of this and make people look silly. Go after the word facsimile, bring out some duct tape. Ask if a finger extended makes a pistol, have they done any Shakespere plays with swords?

I can understand why they leave no loopholes in laws, if you do you get people getting around the law for not good reasons. I would think that all the administrators would have had to do is say "Nope, not a facsimile" and that would be that.

I hope the kids who reported her are ridiculed and ostricized, might as well do that for a good purpose for once.

CarlosDJackal
02-10-09, 12:03
:rolleyes:

Does anyone have an e-mail address or phone number which we can call in support of this young Lady?

mosspointers
02-10-09, 12:12
:rolleyes:

Does anyone have an e-mail address or phone number which we can call in support of this young Lady?

Merry Christmas :)

http://www.cths.ccsd.k12.co.us/documents/admin.html

ST911
02-10-09, 12:19
Good lawyer would get you out of this and make people look silly.

Not as likely as many would think. There have been several zero-tolerance cases litigated with varying levels of success for both parties.

Best success seems to be had via bad PR, media, public outcry, ousting board members, etc.

Despite the folly of zero tolerance and mandatory consequences, the unfortunate reality is that this girl should've known better and been more careful. The policy was known, published, and readily complied with.

Nonetheless, all the best to her and I hope she prevails.

BobM
02-10-09, 12:21
Here in Ohio high school marching band color guards routinely use drill rifles and sabers in their shows.

Chooie
02-10-09, 12:37
Here in Ohio high school marching band color guards routinely use drill rifles and sabers in their shows.

+1

Having spent 5 years in marching band, I don't see how the hell any idiot walking by a car could see one of the "rifles" used by a drill squad as a weapon. They're basically silhouettes of rifles cut out of 2x4 lumber and wrapped in tape... sure, they might be considered a club, but a gun?

Oi.

dbrowne1
02-10-09, 17:07
Back in the good old days, high school kids would routinely have rifles and other firearms - real ones - in their vehicles and nobody batted an eye.

One also seldom heard of school shootings up until AFTER many of these zero tolerance policies became popular. Many states and school districts enacted policies that banned everything short of a sharpened stick well before Columbine.

HiggsBoson
02-10-09, 18:50
From TFA:"a firearm facsimile that could reasonably be mistaken for an actual firearm." (emphasis mine)

"Reasonably" is the key word, here. Most judges don't consider it reasonable to believe that a drill-rifle, made of WOOD and DUCT TAPE, is a firearm. Unfortunately, in (insert name of major metropolitan area) and the surrounding suburbs, reason is subject to the lowest common denominator. It's like there's an inverse relationship between population density and IQ.

SloaneRanger
02-10-09, 20:04
While what happened at Columbine was an atrocity of tragic proportions that we all hope is never again repeated anywhere, local and state school boards seem to be vipers nests of cuordoroy pant wearing, butch-dyke, granola eating liberal tree huggers that lack any modicum of reason and sound judgement.

SloaneRanger
02-10-09, 20:05
From TFA:"a firearm facsimile that could reasonably be mistaken for an actual firearm." (emphasis mine)

"Reasonably" is the key word, here. Most judges don't consider it reasonable to believe that a drill-rifle, made of WOOD and DUCT TAPE, are a firearm. Unfortunately, in (insert name of major metropolitan area) and the surrounding suburbs, reason is subject to the lowest common denominator. It's like there's an inverse relationship between population density and IQ.

yeah ... and we wonder why our public education system produces higher ratios of illiteracy than any other developed nation:rolleyes:

ST911
02-10-09, 20:41
I've never been a fan of, nor voted for, zero-tolerance policies like that. But sitting on boards that have reviewed, written, or instituted them, it's not always because the membership is any of the derogatory expletives mentioned here.

In some cases, policies like that are implemented following adverse claims or litigation brought because a righteous action was taken, but the recipient claimed some type of unjust or discriminatory type of treatment.

Sometimes, such policies are imposed by insurance carriers or risk managers complying with larger directives.

Treating everyone the same, and maintaining a strict literal standard, is one way to address those issues. Not a good solution, but one possible one.

Please, if you're opposed to such policies, seek out seats on your local safe schools task forces, working groups, school boards, etc. Yell from the front of the crowd.

mmike87
02-11-09, 11:47
I agree ZT laws suck.

HOWEVER - just to play devil's advocate - I have seen a BUNCH of instances where folks on this forum jump all over the ruling of some judge who we feel "got it wrong" and made the "wrong" choice - typically letting someone go or reducing a jury's suggested sentence.

Now, I believe that it's better to let a guilty man go then send an innocent man to prison. So I am against all ZT laws across the board. There can always be special circumstances for anything.

But just remember it goes both ways.

TehLlama
02-11-09, 20:01
I'm for implementation of zero tolerance for something that actually endangers students, or is criminal in nature.

This is asinine, in the most specific sense of the word.
I'm also fairly confident that we'll be able to crash their email server with some effort, so that will be a nice perk.

dutch308
02-11-09, 22:17
This is once again a situation of hanky twisters going over board. I was an Adult Instructor for the local Young Marine Unit here in Texas for several years and I can say that this program is a great program for kids. They learned respect, honor, discipline and what its like to be a part of something worthwhile. I saw alot of kids go through our unit and go on to bigger and better things (College, Military, Military Academies) because we kept them busy and focused. Many of them have came back later and told me that they were not sure what they would have turned out to be had it not been for the Young Marines.
I am all for swift punishment for anyone that threatens or indangers our young people but I also believe that in this incident once it was learned what these rifles were and why she had them in her vehicle it should have ended with counseling her on having the drill rifles on Campus and advised not to bring them back. If she had had them out and doing something inappropriate with them I could see a need for disciplinary actions, but lets face it, this is like the difference between "farmer john" caring around a club of somesort and a car load of "gang bangers" with one. You need to look at all the factors involved. IMHO.

FromMyColdDeadHand
02-12-09, 01:17
If this were the movies everyone would show up with a wooden rifle tomorrow.

Ever been a school play with a fake gun?

Hope the punks who turned her in got detention for being out smoking.

AMMOTECH
02-12-09, 08:26
Back in the good old days, high school kids would routinely have rifles and other firearms - real ones - in their vehicles and nobody batted an eye.

One also seldom heard of school shootings up until AFTER many of these zero tolerance policies became popular. Many states and school districts enacted policies that banned everything short of a sharpened stick well before Columbine.

I graduated back in '87 so I know what your talking about.
I was on the ROTC Color/Honor guard and we had some old deactivated 1903's and some plastic (softair?) M-16's. Never had any issues.
-Guns in your car/truck on school grounds? Sure as long as they stayed in the car. Some kids went hunting after school. :eek:
I have another story about some kids with several guns in the truck and a traffic stop but I'll save that for another time....

.