Colt Combat Commander 9x23...

[Jason Burton]

I’ll admit to happily being a dyed in the wool, steadfast, and loyal fan of the traditional 5” .45ACP Government Model... it‘s just something that brings a smile to my face. For carrying, I always liked the idea of the big heavy chuck of steel neatly tucked away in an IWB. And there’s always been a bit of romance about something that effortlessly spits out 230gr hard-ball... it’s just something that sticks with you. But on occasion something a bit off the beaten path perks my interest and produces the same kind of smile that those who have been at the range with me are familiar with.

In this case that “something” is this particular customer’s idea of what a carry gun should be... classic and cool, a two-tone 9x23 Combat Commander. :D

http://www.louderthanwords.us/mediumfoto/picts/ulfls/10022009/12627622321.jpg (http://www.hp1911.com)

This is the second 9x23 that I’ve done for this customer with the first being built on a Colt Series 70 Government Model. He’s what some would call a “hard shooter” and is certainly just what you hope for in a customer. He is also well versed with the cartridge and what he wants and needs to do with the gun. I had a solid idea for what he wanted and needed on this build and, with the exception of a few details, most everything was in my hands. The gun is as full-house dose and typical of what we do the pistol has a welded frame and slide fit, Nowlin barrel w/ EGW bushing, C&S ignition set, hand checkered front and rear at 30lpi, Legacy Custom mainspring housing machined into the frame, complete line straightening, S&A grip safety, Wilson ambi-safety, and of course a polished blue slide atop a matte hard chrome frame. But he did have one request in particular that helped to make this gun stand out, a matted slide top and rear.

And this thing is a rocket ship... or maybe better described as a rocket launcher! It’s a ‘100 yard’ gun all day long and at normal ranges gives immediate feedback when used on those pesky steel plates. The 9x23 Commander sized gun makes for a neat configuration that lets you know with authority when you’ve touched off a round... kind of cool that it also lets those around you know too. ;)

Once again it’s nice to put good guns in the hands of good folks and it’s also nice to be able to build something that stretches past our boundaries a bit and enjoy doing it too!

http://www.louderthanwords.us/mediumfoto/picts/ulfls/10022009/12627622332.jpg (http://www.hp1911.com)

http://www.louderthanwords.us/mediumfoto/picts/ulfls/10022009/12627622343.jpg (http://www.hp1911.com)

http://www.louderthanwords.us/mediumfoto/picts/ulfls/10022009/12627622354.jpg (http://www.hp1911.com)

http://www.louderthanwords.us/mediumfoto/picts/ulfls/10022009/18848353861.jpg (http://www.hp1911.com)

http://www.louderthanwords.us/mediumfoto/picts/ulfls/10022009/18848353872.jpg (http://www.hp1911.com)

http://www.louderthanwords.us/mediumfoto/picts/ulfls/10022009/18848353643.jpg (http://www.hp1911.com)

http://www.louderthanwords.us/mediumfoto/picts/ulfls/10022009/11923376261.jpg (http://www.hp1911.com)

http://www.louderthanwords.us/mediumfoto/picts/ulfls/10022009/11923376252.jpg (http://www.hp1911.com)

http://www.louderthanwords.us/mediumfoto/picts/ulfls/10022009/11923376243.jpg (http://www.hp1911.com)

http://www.louderthanwords.us/mediumfoto/picts/ulfls/10022009/11923376384.jpg (http://www.hp1911.com)

http://www.louderthanwords.us/mediumfoto/picts/ulfls/10022009/18848353654.jpg (http://www.hp1911.com)

http://www.louderthanwords.us/mediumfoto/picts/ulfls/10022009/18848353665.jpg (http://www.hp1911.com)

[theJanitor]

utterly fantastic.

[No.6]

Like the matte finish. Nice looking 1911. What is it about the 1911? It just looks... right.

[John Hearne]

That is some beautiful work. I'm a huge fan of a 5" 45 ACP and one of the few things I'd trust in it's place is a 9x23. That round has some ballistic properties that are more rifle like than pistol like.

[VooDoo6Actual]

VERY nicely done.

[Marcus L.]

Very nice setup. I've always thought the 9x23 was one heck of a cartridge with the capability to be loaded light, or as heavy as the .357mag's 180gr loads and about equal the .357magnum. Then of course with modern frame construction you can have a full double stacked magazine and maintain a grip width of a 9mm pistol. The 9x23 is better for straight magazines though as the 9mm case tapers.

Nice pistol, sir.

[No.6]

Always been a fan of the .45ACP, but I'm beginning to wonder if I should re-think this.
Anyone compared the .45 ACP, 10mm, .40S&W, and the 9x23?
Wonder if you could take a Colt 6450 (or some such) 9mm and run 9x23 in it after the appropriate modifications? Magazines work? Might just be a nice complement to the 1911 in 9x23. Just some random ramblings, not trying to derail the thread.

[bmg]

Nice. What mags do you recommend that can actually be seated with slide forward and 10 rounds in the mag?

[automan]

Nice piece with good ammo.

[Dave James]

Sir: Just wanted to say vary nice rig, I carried a Swenson 38super for years, and believe the 9x23 is all ways under rated, like the Commander set up some one thought long and hard on that one

[Falboy]

What are the odds, I thought I was the only one!!!!???? I picked up an old LW Commander in .38 Super to do the same thing with. I started last Jan. , I even matted the top of the slide and had EGW do the borders when machining for the 10'8 sights. Mine has a BarSto barrel though. Amazing how similar the concepts are though. Mine is checkered 25lpi (my 1st checkeing job, and matte job for that matter). Of course it won't turn out as nice as this, but it's mine anyhow. Great job on that one! Heirloom is what aspire to be half as good as, hopefully more. All because my Gander Mountain was clearancing 9x23 silvertips for $8- a box about 3 yrs. ago! This is just the inspiration I needed to get out and fit that barrel!

[MarshallDodge]

What a fine looking pistol.

Two-tone is not dead after all even thought you don't see them as much as in the past.

[tex45acp]

Jason,

As always, your works of art are stunning in their execution. I would love to just sit there and watch you as you recieve a gun from a customer, that gives you carte blanche to its design/outcome and tap into your mind as the ideas unfold. You are truly a artist of the mechanical tool we all call a firearm.

I have been a fan of the commander sized 1911 for as long as I can remember, especially since I started legally carrying concealed some 18 years ago. I have been through several different brands and finishes. I finally decided to open my purse strings a bit and 5 years ago purchased a stainless Wilson Combat Professional. I have never regretted the purchase and it is the only commander sized 1911 I have left. Even though I handload, because that gun is so fun to shoot it is expensive, as I never have a session that less than 100 rounds went through the barrel. I wanted something cheaper and of the same size to practice with. Practice, of course includes drawing from concealment and firing time and time again to become proficient, that if God forbid, I ever had to defend myself. I looked an looked and had made the decision not to go the .22 route. Then I came across this Para USA LTC. It is a light weight, alloy frame commander sized gun and in 9mm. I picked it up for a decent price and took it home. It was cleaned, inspected and relubed. A week later it went to the range with 300 rounds of 9mm ammo of different sizes and bullet configurations. I have found my backup commander. Having a match grade barrel and cleanly breaking 4.5# trigger is not a bad thing either. Sights are much better than those that were on previous Para's. The only thing I dislike about this gun is the finish really sucks a big one. I plan to have it refinished in the near future with something that will stick to the alloy frame and slide alike. I have carried this gun several times and though the Professional is my favorite, the lighter weight of this one is really noticable. The Milt Sparks Versa Max 2 holster is in my opinion the perfect IWB holster for the commander sized guns.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f43/mike_seale/LTC9NEWGRIP.jpghttp://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f43/mike_seale/HPIM1461.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f43/mike_seale/WCPROL.jpghttp://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f43/mike_seale/ProVM2.jpg

[Jason Burton]

Guys, thanks so much for the comments... they are much appreciate as is your time. Thank you!

The best part about this gun is the gentleman it's going to. He is currently out and about doing the good work of the country and, as in the past, it is my pleasure to be able to work for him.


Nice. What mags do you recommend that can actually be seated with slide forward and 10 rounds in the mag?

The mags I delivered with this gun were the Wilson Combat 9mm ETM. They are sold as a 9mm magazine but can be converted to fit the 9x23 by removing the plastic ‘spacer’ that sits behind the follower. As I said in another thread, this is not something the good people at Wilson may have intended (I don’t know) nor even want you to do but it works and worked very well in my guns. ;)

[d90king]

Great looking blaster Jason!

[ToddG]

Jason, I think I speak for everyone in the forum when I say a gun like that would make for an outstanding "50,000 rounds in six months" test. Right guys? :cool:

[d90king]

Jason, I think I speak for everyone in the forum when I say a gun like that would make for an outstanding "50,000 rounds in six months" test. Right guys? :cool:

I cant think of a better pistol to test for 50k rounds. I am sure he can box it right up and have it to you by Tue.:D

[bruce21b]

Hi,

excuse my caliber ignorance, but what exactly is a 9x23 round????

Awesome looking gun, by the way;)

[RyanB]

Its like a 9x19, but 4mm longer and loaded to rifle pressures. 125 at 1500. Makes the .357 Sig look silly.

[ToddG]

Its like a 9x19, but 4mm longer and loaded to rifle pressures. 125 at 1500. Makes the .357 Sig look silly.

Actually, the spec on factory ammo from Winchester was 125gr @ 1,450fps from a 5" barrel, compared to 1,350fps from a 4" barrel for 357 SIG.

For an idea of what half an inch of barrel will earn you with a high pressure pistol cartridge such as the 357 SIG, see this post at SIGforum (http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/410601935/m/3851013541). Guns used were a SIG P226 (4.4" bbl) and SIG P229 (3.86" bbl). Testing two lots of Gold Dot and one of Winchester Range, the OP in that thread averaged 44fps faster in the longer barrel.

[LonghunterCO]

I have always had a keen interest in the 9x23. I remember reading about the guys that were developing the .50 1911. It was mentioned that the design was/might be for use aginst guys that are wearing chest rigs with loaded, steel 7.62x39 AK mags. I remember thinking instead of redesigning the 1911 up into a 50 why are they not going to the 9x23?

Very Nice Jason. Good work there.

[Marcus L.]

Ted Schuman helped in the developement of the 9x23mm for Winchester. He worked up several loads ranging from 115gr to 180gr and he commented in a "Guns and Ammo" article in the late 1990s that he could always keep its velocity from a 1911 5" barrel safely within 50fps of full power .357magnum loadings out of a 5" barrel. The only loads Winchester decided to put into production were the 124gr and 125gr which were the most requested. The heaviest commercial load I've seen in the .357sig was Federal's old 150gr load which they pulled from the market due to over-pressure problems.

Someday I'd like to get into the 9x23mm and roll my own for it. Since it is a straight walled case, it will be easier to reload and you have a greater crimping surface for bullet seating which will make it more resistant to setbacks versus the .357sig.

[RyanB]

Actually, the spec on factory ammo from Winchester was 125gr @ 1,450fps from a 5" barrel, compared to 1,350fps from a 4" barrel for 357 SIG.

For an idea of what half an inch of barrel will earn you with a high pressure pistol cartridge such as the 357 SIG, see this post at SIGforum (http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/410601935/m/3851013541). Guns used were a SIG P226 (4.4" bbl) and SIG P229 (3.86" bbl). Testing two lots of Gold Dot and one of Winchester Range, the OP in that thread averaged 44fps faster in the longer barrel.

Wasn't criticising the ballistics of the .357 Sig, my complaints about that cartridge are related to its other features. I would rather have a straight walled cartridge.

[Bigun]

What makes this round so much hotter than a .38 Super?? More efficient case design?

[ToddG]

First, it's a much stronger case.

Second, unlike .38 Super or even .38 Super +p which need to work in a variety of older guns, the 9x23 got to start from scratch in an age of tougher guns that can better handle high pressures. So while it's certainly possible to build a gun chambered in .38 Super that can achieve similar velocities as the 9x23, you can't find SAAMI-spec ammunition at those velocities for .38 Super (or .38 Super +p) ...

[Falboy]

I'm just curious, why modify Wilson 9mm mags when you can use Wilson .38 Super mags? Not criticising, just wondering what the reasoning is. I bought the .38 Super mags after much research, if theres a better mousetrap, I want it.;)

[Bigun]

First, it's a much stronger case.

Second, unlike .38 Super or even .38 Super +p which need to work in a variety of older guns, the 9x23 got to start from scratch in an age of tougher guns that can better handle high pressures. So while it's certainly possible to build a gun chambered in .38 Super that can achieve similar velocities as the 9x23, you can't find SAAMI-spec ammunition at those velocities for .38 Super (or .38 Super +p) ... Makes sense. Thanks

[Jason Burton]

I'm just curious, why modify Wilson 9mm mags when you can use Wilson .38 Super mags? Not criticising, just wondering what the reasoning is. I bought the .38 Super mags after much research, if theres a better mousetrap, I want it.;)

I had the ETM magazines in the shop to run with a 9mm... it was a matter of coincidence and convenience that by simply removing the plastic spacer they worked with the 9x23.

[Falboy]

Thanks for the lightning fast reply Jason, I really admire the work of Heirloom Precision. If I didn't take so much pleasure of building my own, you folks would be my only choice for a custom.

[Shadow1198]

That is absolutely beautiful work there Mr. Burton. :D