View Full Version : Iraqi Police Get a Pep Talk
May be NSFW due to some language :cool:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0a3_1233765334
kaiservontexas
02-12-09, 12:48
"You calling me out!" YES! This is awesome.
Mr.Goodtimes
02-12-09, 13:52
damn that was one of the best vids ive seen in a while, that dudes awesome lol... you think hes navy special warfare?
Mr.Goodtimes
02-12-09, 15:02
out the other...
damn that was one of the best vids ive seen in a while, that dudes awesome lol... you think hes navy special warfare?
NSFW= Not Safe For Work, not Navy Special Warfare.
And for as entertaining as that diatribe might have been, I'm sure in the long run it did far more harm than good. I showed it to a Special Forces friend of mine and he would have brought charges against the guy.
NSFW= Not Safe For Work, not Navy Special Warfare.
And for as entertaining as that diatribe might have been, I'm sure in the long run it did far more harm than good. I showed it to a Special Forces friend of mine and he would have brought charges against the guy.
Exactly. I can see it being used by the anti war crowd and Muslim groups to show how "disrespectful" of the Iraqis our troops are.
NSFW= Not Safe For Work, not Navy Special Warfare.
And for as entertaining as that diatribe might have been, I'm sure in the long run it did far more harm than good. I showed it to a Special Forces friend of mine and he would have brought charges against the guy.
Really? Bold statement from a few minutes of video. I'm sure if you rolled back tape on a few traffic stops of mine and watched only a selected time frame you could say something similar. Be nice till it's time not to be nice. Maybe it was time not to be nice based upon events the video didn't show.
Not looking to get into an argument or even a discussion really but perhaps you could answer a couple questions for me?
Why would he bring charges?
What charges would he bring?
What would he hope to accomplish by bringing such charges?
John_Wayne777
02-12-09, 17:17
With all due respect, COIN is a much different kettle of fish than a traffic stop. You can fit what I know about COIN in a thimble, but I think Stony might be on to something here.
With all due respect, COIN is a much different kettle of fish than a traffic stop. You can fit what I know about COIN in a thimble, but I think Stony might be on to something here.
They are worlds apart and I certainly wasn't trying to compare the 2. However, making snap judgments from a snippet of tape regardless if it's the tape at hand, a traffic stop, or a red flag review in the NFL is very much the same issue.
They are worlds apart and I certainly wasn't trying to compare the 2. However, making snap judgments from a snippet of tape regardless if it's the tape at hand, a traffic stop, or a red flag review in the NFL is very much the same issue.
true, but if something is wrong it's wrong, whether they catch someone running a red light once, compared to the 999 they stopped for, does it make the one they ran any less insignificant?
I have muslim friends and I can tell you that they're quite patriotic and pro USA while still holding true to their beliefs.
Ill have to get their take on it.
There are lots of ways to motivate people to get something done, I don't know if telling them to die and go out and kill someone was the best thing to do, but Im not over there on the two way firing range...I think the politeness would wear off after the first few rounds zipped past my face.
I do know that some of those guys could stand to lose a lot for being there as enforcement though...could put their families at risk...
it's a ten sided coin.
true, but if something is wrong it's wrong, whether they catch someone running a red light once, compared to the 999 they stopped for, does it make the one they ran any less insignificant?
I have muslim friends and I can tell you that they're quite patriotic and pro USA while still holding true to their beliefs.
Ill have to get their take on it.
There are lots of ways to motivate people to get something done, I don't know if telling them to die and go out and kill someone was the best thing to do, but Im not over there on the two way firing range...I think the politeness would wear off after the first few rounds zipped past my face.
I do know that some of those guys could stand to lose a lot for being there as enforcement though...could put their families at risk...
it's a ten sided coin.
My point: If the red light runner was getting his prego wife or injured child to the hospital, or headed home because his wife called and said someone was breaking in etc. then those are examples of valid times to violate the "rules", both compulsory (statute) and implied (etiquette). Has this soldier had brothers die because the men who were supposed to do the work did not? Did they bail on his men? Did they inform on his men? etc. There could be reasons beyond this tape is what I'm getting at.
He's not dealing with only subordinates. He's dealing with potential (or proven?) traitors and cowards. If he's lost even a single man over those 2 traits I can appreciate his position.
Fire tries people. If after the fire you find what/who you are relying on to back you up is anything less than squared away, it would be a fatal error to not take a similar road as this soldier. Will it get you what you want? Who knows... But being apathetic towards it will no doubt fail to bring about the required change.
+1 on not knowing the surrounding situation and frustration, and not making judgment calls.
This tape should have never made it out of the COC.
What is the intelligence value of this tape? There is none.
There was no reason taping should have even taken place regardless of the mild language he used with the reformed Iraqi Citizens.
Bolt_Overide
02-12-09, 23:53
While I would agree that we dont know all of the back story, I think those who jumped at Stony's opinions are out of their lane. USOCOM gives varying degrees of instruction on international relations to all their troops, granted Ranger Batt would get it to a bit lesser degree than say 5th group. But that said, Stony is still a damn sight more qualified to opine on this video, its concequences, and whether the tactics used were warranted than any US LEO, unless you have a degree in international relations or multinational political theory you neglected to mention.
No doubt this soldier had his reasons, I dont know them, and wouldnt judge them if I did. However, there will be unintended concequences to this, if there were traitors in that formation, that pep talk did nothing to change them, and very well pushed a few that were on the fence over to the other side.
While I would agree that we dont know all of the back story, I think those who jumped at Stony's opinions are out of their lane.
Who did that? All I did was ask why his sf buddy made this statement?
USOCOM gives varying degrees of instruction on international relations to all their troops, granted Ranger Batt would get it to a bit lesser degree than say 5th group. But that said, Stony is still a damn sight more qualified to opine on this video, its concequences, and whether the tactics used were warranted than any US LEO, unless you have a degree in international relations or multinational political theory you neglected to mention.
Pump the brakes. What I was askingwas why did x make such a statement? Does he know more than me? Is he more familiar with this particular case than me? Can he share? I'm here to learn.
I didn't pass judgment on anyone and I'm damn sure my tone and my text made that clear. I asked questions. I'm pretty sure that's a safe lane.
No doubt this soldier had his reasons, I dont know them, and wouldnt judge them if I did. However, there will be unintended concequences to this, if there were traitors in that formation, that pep talk did nothing to change them, and very well pushed a few that were on the fence over to the other side.
Better to know than not. YMMV
What I have made clear is that I don't know anymore than the video showed. That I am looking for education. I've been real clear about my knowledge level and surely never claimed it to be above anyone else. Based upon what I saw and my limited expertise in the area dealing with people; I can make the statement "we don't know the whole story and there might be something that warrants such a reaction". And I can do so without fear of being out of my lane. :cool:
Well ZDL I'll give you a little background on my SF friend. He was over here (Iraq) for over a year working with the Iraqi police "commando" unit. Technically it was a non-SF assignment, but a lot of the same principals apply. He was wounded in a grenade attack when an improperly searched arrestee (sp?) pulled the pin on a grenade he had on his person. This attack killed at least one person and fortunately the assailent will have to crap through a bag for the rest of his life. My buddy retired last year as a Colonel after hitting the 30 year mark.
Point being, I trust his judgement based upon his experience and my discussions with him.
What charges? I don't have my UCMJ manual handy but conduct unbecoming would be a good starting point.
That "few minutes" of video captures a complete diatribe spewed by that soldier. He might have felt better for venting. Some of you might feel better because "he really told those ragheads off". The things he said and accused them of might be factually correct, but I will still go back to this question: what did it do to further the accomplishment of the mission? He referred to them as women and undermined the officers in front of the men. I contend he did more harm than good.
Personally, I don't know if I would have charged the soldier in question, but a major ass chewing and a letter of reprimand would have been the very least I would have done.
A lesson I learned decades ago is that if you as a leader let your frustration show to your subordinates, it makes you less effective. This soldier did that in spades.
I have no love for the Iraqi people or their culture, but doing the right thing oft times means doing that which is neither enjoyable nor easy.
This is my Cliff Notes version of a response.
While I can certainly understand that Soldier's frustration there had to be a better way to get his point across.
How sad to see a man making an ass of himself. I have no respect for a man like this.
How sad to see a man making an ass of himself. I have no respect for a man like this.
Dude, thats a bold statement. Do you know the circumstances of this outburst? To say that you have no respect for a solder serving overseas due to a short internet video is out of line in my book. Did he beat, torture, etc. anyone? He just ruffled some feathers and called out some people who may or may not have deserved it.
While I agree that he could have handled it much differently and he probably did more harm than good we don't know what led up to this. Our service men and women deserve the benefit of our doubt until all the facts are in.
Just my 2c.
Dude, thats a bold statement. Do you know the circumstances of this outburst? To say that you have no respect for a solder serving overseas due to a short internet video is out of line in my book. Did he beat, torture, etc. anyone? He just ruffled some feathers and called out some people who may or may not have deserved it.
While I agree that he could have handled it much differently and he probably did more harm than good we don't know what led up to this. Our service men and women deserve the benefit of our doubt until all the facts are in.
Just my 2c.
I was a commission officer and serve from 1986 to 2006. If anyone would address me in such a manner I do not consider them an honorable person. I am just fed up by some of the behavior of some of our brothers who represent our country. This is my view regarding this particular incident. I am 110% in support of our enlisted men and women serving around the world. This is my last post with this Thread.
I was a commission officer and serve from 1986 to 2006. If anyone would address me in such a manner I do not consider them an honorable person. I am just fed up by some of the behavior of some of our brothers who represent our country. This is my view regarding this particular incident. I am 110% in support of our enlisted men and women serving around the world. This is my last post with this Thread.
I apologize for my tone in my post. Thank you for your service. I get a little pissed at people who jump on our servicemen and don't care what they go through for us. I did not know your point reference in the matter.
RogerinTPA
02-13-09, 22:35
Diplomacy, tact and respect goes a long way when dealing with indigenous forces. Seems like he had very little to no training in dealing with indigenous populations or cultural awareness. I can understand the NCO's frustrations, but in this case, he did more harm than good, especially if he couldn't prove the accusations. Talking down to those folks in an extremely disrespectful manner is not the way international relations and diplomacy works guys. Americans have a world wide reputation of being way too heavy handed when dealing with indigenous people, thus fueling the hatred.
Diplomacy, tact and respect goes a long way when dealing with indigenous forces. Seems like he had very little to no training in dealing with indigenous populations or cultural awareness. I can understand the NCO's frustrations, but in this case, he did more harm than good, especially if he couldn't prove the accusations. Americans have a world wide reputation of being way too heavy handed when dealing with indigenous people, thus fueling the hatred.
I have one more question and statement and then I'm done.
If the last 9 months of this soldiers deployment (that weren't on tape) in that country had been glad handing, smiles, hugs, and love towards those people and the day before this tape he lost men because the police force didn't fight, retreated when they weren't supposed to, or informed on his unit... would you and others still be singing the same tune? That is an honest question. Not being a dick.
Everything else I can say has already been said. I don't know that people are getting my point but... who knows, maybe I'm not getting everyone elses. Moving on. :cool:
I can't pass a judgement based on a video of a harsh tongue lashing.
does he look like an ass? si. do we know what led up to his actions? no- for all we know he might be exercising a level of self-control beyond any of our abilities. we don't know.
the crime is that it ended up on camera for people not involved, not there in the moment, to witness out of context.
ThirdWatcher
02-14-09, 06:34
He may not be politically correct but IMO he spoke the truth. He just said what a lot of other people are thinking.
I served in the Army (Military Police) 1973-76 and he didn't say anything that we didn't hear from our NCO's every now and again.
Both my young-uns are in the Army now and I wouldn't trade their lives (or limbs) for the freedom of cowards. I have been a commissioned LEO for over 30 years and I guarantee you I would grab my rifle and fight the enemy if they were in my town. Don't take the job if you aren't willing to fight for what you believe in.
As far as this tape making us look bad, who cares? Most of the world (with a few notable exceptions) hates us anyway.
RogerinTPA
02-14-09, 10:32
I have one more question and statement and then I'm done.
If the last 9 months of this soldiers deployment (that weren't on tape) in that country had been glad handing, smiles, hugs, and love towards those people and the day before this tape he lost men because the police force didn't fight, retreated when they weren't supposed to, or informed on his unit... would you and others still be singing the same tune? That is an honest question. Not being a dick.
Everything else I can say has already been said. I don't know that people are getting my point but... who knows, maybe I'm not getting everyone elses. Moving on. :cool:
That's where the discipline comes in. An occasional rodney king beat down because no ones watching, because a LEO lost self control, may be acceptable behavior to some, but it's not an acceptable or justifiable excuse. That's where the professionalism, self control and cultural sensitivity comes in. Suppose a foreign soldier was speaking to you that way. How would you take it? You can "If I would, I could, I should of" this all day long. The soldier in the video is performing a traditional Special Forces role who are trained in international relations and training indigenous forces. Having conventional forces fill this role is a back fill to the shortage of SF personnel. My point is, regardless of how long he was with this police unit, he should have been similarly trained, before being selected to conduct this mission. Not to come across as an ugly American, still complete his training of this unit/mission and not cause embarrassment to this country and further damaging relations with the host nation. I'm talking about professionalism and self control. If I would have been his CO, witnessing that incident, I would have fired him on the spot and given him a letter of reprimand. YMMV.
SeriousStudent
02-14-09, 11:19
This really makes me think a lot about an article I read years ago, and was able to Google it up. Back in 1999, Gen Krulak, the Commandant of the Marine Corps, wrote an article about the "Strategic Corporal."
http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2007/05/the-strategic-corporal-vs-the/
"In many cases, the individual Marine will be the most conspicuous symbol of American foreign policy and will potentially influence not only the immediate tactical situation, but the operational and strategic levels as well. His actions, therefore, will directly impact the outcome of the larger operation; and he will become, as the title of this article suggests -- the Strategic Corporal."
Gen Krulak just wrote up what every Pineland graduate has known for decades. The NCO on the ground often has a bigger impact than a colonel in an office.
It's pretty much just as rharris2163 said, and other here have stated. I have enormous respect for all who serve honorably, even more so when in harm's way. I worked with the foreign training side of the Corps at times, and the military side of it is easy. It was the "political" side that was hard.
(Of course, teaching the natives to use muskets and cutlasses was very simple back in my day.....I understand that these new smokeless powder firearms are much more complex.....)
Great video! Sounds like my pep talks to my salesman who bitch about not making enough money, but are to lazy to work for it.
I dont see anything that is counter productive to holding people accountable for their FNNN job.
Those blue shirts are there to protect their own countrymen !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's where the discipline comes in. An occasional rodney king beat down because no ones watching, because a LEO lost self control, may be acceptable behavior to some, but it's not an acceptable or justifiable excuse. That's where the professionalism, self control and cultural sensitivity comes in. Suppose a foreign soldier was speaking to you that way. How would you take it? You can "If I would, I could, I should of" this all day long. The soldier in the video is performing a traditional Special Forces role who are trained in international relations and training indigenous forces. Having conventional forces fill this role is a back fill to the shortage of SF personnel. My point is, regardless of how long he was with this police unit, he should have been similarly trained, before being selected to conduct this mission. Not to come across as an ugly American, still complete his training of this unit/mission and not cause embarrassment to this country and further damaging relations with the host nation. I'm talking about professionalism and self control. If I would have been his CO, witnessing that incident, I would have fired him on the spot and given him a letter of reprimand. YMMV.
I hope everyone understands I don't disagree with this. My point all along has been, there is a line where diplomacy, professionalism, and cultural sensitivity become dangerous in and of themselves. There comes a time when shit canning someone is the absolute best course of action. This might have been it. From the few minutes of video we can not make that assessment... Well I can't at any rate. Also, not being a dick, but you can't tell me you would keep your diplomacy in the forefront of your mind while brothers were being killed due to the incompetence or dishonesty of those around you.
RogerinTPA
02-14-09, 19:03
I hope everyone understands I don't disagree with this. My point all along has been, there is a line where diplomacy, professionalism, and cultural sensitivity become dangerous in and of themselves. There comes a time when shit canning someone is the absolute best course of action. This might have been it. From the few minutes of video we can not make that assessment... Well I can't at any rate. Also, not being a dick, but you can't tell me you would keep your diplomacy in the forefront of your mind while brothers were being killed due to the incompetence or dishonesty of those around you.
ZDL, you are either trolling or have no concept of command & control, and the responsibilities that go along with it. This is a failure of leadership from the top down. His CO didn't adequately train and prepare his soldiers in what they would face or counsel them about dealing with host nation troops. His unit maybe a reserve or national guard MP unit assigned to the task. If true, that alone would explain his conduct. He is training civilian LEOs, not soldiers. It's like comparing US LEO's to seasoned combat Vet's in a combat environment. The typical US LEO's, without the proper training, would fair far worse in combat, than seasoned military vets. LEO's often do not have the resources to train like a military unit and not ingrained with the warrior spirit or mindset. A LEOs mandate is to Police, not to "close with and destroy the enemy". Another disadvantage is the fact that a LEO's job is to apprehend a suspect, where a military combatant's job is to kill. Also, LEOs are used to just engaging one or two suspects at the most, with over whelming superiority, not an armed squad or platoon sized, combat trained insurgents, who sole purpose in life is to take your life and to give his to Allah.
Respectfully, you can't tell me what I am capable of. Just because you might not be able to control your emotions and think under combat pressure, doesn't mean I, or other current and former military leaders, can't. I'll say it again, you can "what if" this to death. I am talking about that particular video and only that video, period. To stretch this in an opposite direction, had he struck one of those folks like he was threatening to do, that video would have been used as evidence in his court marshal, but he didn't. That tape alone is enough to bring charges against him for conduct unbecoming and failure to repair (Not following the commanders orders). The moment you lose control of your personnel, you have lost unit cohesion and thus effectiveness. At the moment of his speech, he was in no imminent danger of any kind and no one was being killed. The only validity you have proven so far, is in your imagination. You don't know what the NCO had gone through, so basically, your just stirring the shit pot. My job as the CO, was to keep my s&*t wired tight, maintain control of my unit and to manage violence. There is always a line you will cross given the right amount of stimulus. As a military leader, it's your job to know where that line is and to make damn sure your men don't cross it or it will be the commander that will be court marshaled for any atrocities committed. I'm done here.
ZDL, you are either trolling or have no concept of command & control, and the responsibilities that go along with it. This is a failure of leadership from the top down. His CO didn't adequately train and prepare his soldiers in what they would face or counsel them about dealing with host nation troops. His unit maybe a reserve or national guard MP unit assigned to the task. If true, that alone would explain his conduct. He is training civilian LEOs, not soldiers. It's like comparing US LEO's to seasoned combat Vet's in a combat environment. The typical US LEO's, without the proper training, would fair far worse in combat, than seasoned military vets. LEO's often do not have the resources to train like a military unit and not ingrained with the warrior spirit or mindset. A LEOs mandate is to Police, not to "close with and destroy the enemy". Another disadvantage is the fact that a LEO's job is to apprehend a suspect, where a military combatant's job is to kill. Also, LEOs are used to just engaging one or two suspects at the most, with over whelming superiority, not an armed squad or platoon sized, combat trained insurgents, who sole purpose in life is to take your life and to give his to Allah.
Respectfully, you can't tell me what I am capable of. Just because you might not be able to control your emotions and think under combat pressure, doesn't mean I, or other current and former military leaders, can't. I'll say it again, you can "what if" this to death. I am talking about that particular video and only that video, period. To stretch this in an opposite direction, had he struck one of those folks like he was threatening to do, that video would have been used as evidence in his court marshal, but he didn't. That tape alone is enough to bring charges against him for conduct unbecoming and failure to repair (Not following the commanders orders). The moment you lose control of your personnel, you have lost unit cohesion and thus effectiveness. At the moment of his speech, he was in no imminent danger of any kind and no one was being killed. The only validity you have proven so far, is in your imagination. You don't know what the NCO had gone through, so basically, your just stirring the shit pot. My job as the CO, was to keep my s&*t wired tight, maintain control of my unit and to manage violence. There is always a line you will cross given the right amount of stimulus. As a military leader, it's your job to know where that line is and to make damn sure your men don't cross it or it will be the commander that will be court marshaled for any atrocities committed. I'm done here.
I can go through this and pick apart the areas where you are falling under the pot/kettle theory but instead I'll say this. I disagree with you.. here on an internet forum... on this one topic....and you are taking it personal and getting defensive. In the same breath you state the necessity to keep shit wired tight and not show your emotions. I'm not trolling, I simply don't understand how the 2 ideas can survive, without conflict, in ones mind. Why you are angry over this question/misunderstanding/discussion, I can't figure out. Everyone breaks, everyone has a line, everyone stumbles. The value centered ones keep it within the lines of sanity.
You've stated he violated military law. Knowing nothing of military law, I honestly take your word. If he did violate the letter of the law and you (or whoever his CO is) feels he violated the intent as well, then ding him. I have no problem with that. It serves to maintain order in large groups and he might grow a level in his self control.
The damning of the man is what perplexes me. People are speaking of him like he is a low life shirt bird. He chewed some asses out, not cheat on his wife.
Up until now, I thought we were discussing this. If it's going to turn into an argument then I'm finished as well. I have no animosity so it's your call. (or the mods) :cool:
Great video! Sounds like my pep talks to my salesman who bitch about not making enough money, but are to lazy to work for it.
I dont see anything that is counter productive to holding people accountable for their FNNN job.
Those blue shirts are there to protect their own countrymen !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Damn straight!!! I got talked to worse at theMarine Military Academy Summer Program in Harlengin, TX. Sometimes to motivate people you have to hang your foot in their ass. If they cant handle a little tough talk they sure are not going to buck up and get THEIR country in line.
ThirdWatcher
02-15-09, 04:56
BTW, I think General Patton would of loved that pep talk... and love him or hate him, he got results.
RogerinTPA
02-15-09, 10:09
I can go through this and pick apart the areas where you are falling under the pot/kettle theory but instead I'll say this. I disagree with you.. here on an internet forum... on this one topic....and you are taking it personal and getting defensive. In the same breath you state the necessity to keep shit wired tight and not show your emotions. I'm not trolling, I simply don't understand how the 2 ideas can survive, without conflict, in ones mind. Why you are angry over this question/misunderstanding/discussion, I can't figure out. Everyone breaks, everyone has a line, everyone stumbles. The value centered ones keep it within the lines of sanity.
You've stated he violated military law. Knowing nothing of military law, I honestly take your word. If he did violate the letter of the law and you (or whoever his CO is) feels he violated the intent as well, then ding him. I have no problem with that. It serves to maintain order in large groups and he might grow a level in his self control.
The damning of the man is what perplexes me. People are speaking of him like he is a low life shirt bird. He chewed some asses out, not cheat on his wife.
Up until now, I thought we were discussing this. If it's going to turn into an argument then I'm finished as well. I have no animosity so it's your call. (or the mods) :cool:
FYI, I wasn't upset or angry. No one is taking it personal or getting defensive. You may think so, but I can assure you, I am not. I simply responded and answered with my opinion. Unless you have been in that position, it is hard to understand. No one said anything about being without emotion. There is always going to be conflict in your mind about anything you do. There is no free lunch. Your job as a leader is to deconflict as much as possible prior to, and then Charlie Mike. He may have disobeyed an order given by his chain of command to avoid that kind of extream confrontation, but I do know that display was unprofessional and conduct unbecoming of an NCO. In this kinda of situation, foreign internal defense (FID), that outburst may cost him his life or someone else's life in that unit. Military service is not for everyone and leaves deep emotional scars on those who do.
Again, I'm talking about controlling emotions, so they don't come to a boiling point and cause the following: turn off your target audience, cause some to turn against you during a firefight, cause others to quit and join the insurgents, convert more of them into moles and tip off the bad guys about your units movements, perpetuate the hatred towards US service members and this country, embarrass yourself and your country, further damage US/Iraqi relations and so on. His target audience has little or no education, mixed religiously, volunteered for a job that was way over his head, has little or no combat experience, let alone LEO experience, heart not really into it, dirt poor and trying to feed his family. If there were Iraqi Officers and NCO's present, he also set a poor example for them to emulate.
For what it's worth, he could be an outstanding NCO, but for what ever reason, lost his cool on that particular day. What he should have done was talk over his frustrations with other NCO's and his chain of command and come up with the appropriate response.
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-15-09, 20:50
Is that guy related to Rod Blagoevich? F\/ck!
So these people lived under Saddam Hussein fought the Iranian suicide mass assaults; had their women raped, their fathers dissapeared; then were slaughtered by terrorists on probably both sides of the sunni/shia split, and this guy's R-rated speech is going to send them over the edge? Can someone tell me what his speech should have sounded like?
Can anyone tell if the guy was translating the f-word to the policemen? (I'm guessing they get that one by now) It was recently released, but when did this happen?
There is always some guy in crowd who is a nervous giggler.
It sounded eerily like a basketball game half-time speech, when I was in 8th grade, and my Dad was the coach.
]\For what it's worth, he could be an outstanding NCO, but for what ever reason, lost his cool on that particular day. What he should have done was talk over his frustrations with other NCO's and his chain of command and come up with the appropriate response.
Sounds like a great plan for a McDonalds fry cook. What is with all the sensitive male types that think a pep talk is too severe. I bet he got results out of those guys. To many admin types fresh from the Fred Rodgers school of Pussification are in the leadership positions. IF that was too much for you then maybe you are not enough. Dont think that is the first time a US advisor has put the fire on some less than motivated folks unwilling or unwanting to help their own country while his friends and loosing their lives doing it for them.
At least we do have some men who value results and lives of their friends over the sensitive feelings of others who should be in another career.
I think you've missed the point here. I can certainly share the soldier's frustations. Spent a bit of time with Iraqis', everyone from local workers, to mil and police units, to HVT's and joe blow detainees, and frustrated doesn't begin to describe the feeling. But when you're standing in front of a group of guys you're supposed to be training, and you're standing on their ground - in their country, and your hope is to get them to a point where they are self-sufficient and motivated, I don't believe this is the way to get it done.
I'm hoping from your comments that you've had to go out on assaults with Iraqi units, that you've watched some truly good dudes (both Iraq and US) get blown 60 meters in a ****ing REVA from a crush wire IED because a couple Iraqi soldiers took the night off and called in the plans to their JAM friends, and that you've spent time with a lot of these guys on the range, wondering if you're going to catch a bullet in your back to make the pretty bold statement you've made that apparently the rest of us who don't agree with this soldier's method of "motivation" are all a bunch of pussies.
Sounds like a great plan for a McDonalds fry cook. What is with all the sensitive male types that think a pep talk is too severe. I bet he got results out of those guys. To many admin types fresh from the Fred Rodgers school of Pussification are in the leadership positions. IF that was too much for you then maybe you are not enough. Dont think that is the first time a US advisor has put the fire on some less than motivated folks unwilling or unwanting to help their own country while his friends and loosing their lives doing it for them.
At least we do have some men who value results and lives of their friends over the sensitive feelings of others who should be in another career.
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-16-09, 20:48
Where did everyone go?
I do think that if his speech didn't end with "Who's coming with me down the road, right now!" it would be less than effective. Giving the speech and then rumbling away in a Stryker would be less than inspiring.
As bad as he is, we all know what Al Queda would have done to the giggler.
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