View Full Version : Corbon DPX 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP duty ammo vs. Fed HST as control
9mm Corbon 115 gr +P Barnes XPB JHP; ave vel=1229 fps (G19); gel cal= 9.5cm@593fps
BG: pen=14.8", RD=0.54", RL=0.48", RW=115.1gr
4LD: pen=15.1", RD=0.54", RL=0.49", RW=115.4gr
9mm Fed 147 gr HST JHP; ave vel=997 fps (G19)
BG: pen=14.6", RD=0.61", RL=0.39", RW=147.1gr
4LD: pen=15.6", RD=0.56", RL=0.53", RW=145.5gr
115 gr +P XPB vs. 147 gr HST--BG top/4LD bottom:
http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/DocGKR/9mmCorbon115grPJHP.jpg?t=1234757049
.40 S&W Corbon 140 gr Barnes XPB JHP; ave vel=1207 fps (S&W 4006); gel cal=9.5cm@590fps
BG: pen=12.6", RD=0.64", RL=0.49", RW=140.1gr
4LD: pen=11.5", RD=0.64", RL=0.49", RW=141.1gr
.40 S&W Fed 180 gr HST JHP; ave vel=959 fps (S&W 4006)
BG: pen=14.0", RD=0.70", RL=0.43", RW=181.2gr
4LD: pen=15.0", RD=0.56", RL=0.52", RW=180.7gr
140 gr XPB vs. 180 gr HST--BG top/4LD bottom:
http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/DocGKR/40Corbon140grJHP.jpg
.45 ACP Corbon 160 gr Barnes XPB JHP; ave vel=1101 fps (1911); gel cal=9.0cm@576fps
BG: pen=13.9" RD=0.66", RL=0.43", RW=159.7gr
4LD: pen=13.2", RD=0.64", RL=0.46", RW=160.1gr
.45 ACP Corbon 185 gr +P Barnes XPB JHP; ave vel=1097 fps (1911); gel cal=9.0cm@576fps
BG: pen=16.8" RD=0.65", RL=0.51", RW=185.3gr
4LD: pen=16.5", RD=0.66", RL=0.51", RW=185.9gr
.45 ACP Fed 230 gr +P HST JHP; ave vel=996 fps (1911)
BG: pen=12.2", RD=0.85", RL=0.41", RW=230.5gr
4LD: pen=14.6", RD=0.69", RL=0.46", RW=230.7gr
185 gr +P XPB vs. 230 gr +P HST--BG top/4LD bottom:
http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/DocGKR/45ACPCorbon185grPJHP.jpg?t=1234757450
Like the HST loads, the Barnes XPB bullets performed very well in both bare gel and 4 layer denim; the only area of concern was a propensity for the Barnes XPB bullets to have difficulties with auto windshield intermediate barriers. The Barnes bullets would frequently begin to yaw off course after only a few centimeters of travel in gel and would often veer to 90 degrees and exit the gel blocks in under 10 cm--this phenomena requires further study.
Glock17JHP
02-16-09, 13:27
I think I like the Federal 9mm 147 grain HST performance better from a Glock 19 than a Glock 17...
Great data - thanks Doc!
Looks like I need to update my FAQ over on Arfcom with some new data...
"I think I like the Federal 9mm 147 grain HST performance better from a Glock 19 than a Glock 17..."
After accounting for lot to lot variations, the terminal performance is identical between a G19 and G17.
Glock17JHP
02-16-09, 20:32
The 9mm HST went 14.6 inches in BG in the Glock 19...
I seem to recall about 12.5 inches in a Glock 17...
I prefer 14.6 over 12.5 inches...
I use RA9T for this reason specifically... I like BG to be at least 13-14 inches in my Glock 17...
Am I too picky??? :confused:
Yes...you will see that much variation lot-to-lot, even when fired from the same pistol.
Glock17JHP
02-17-09, 13:09
Thanks, Doc... you just reminded me why we should not only test the load we carry, but we should re-test new lots, too!!!
Follow-up question about the 185gr DPX: Would you have expected the bullet to have a bigger RD in a non-+P load?
Also - why did you pick the HST in 230gr +P instead of the regular pressure load?
Follow-up question about the 185gr DPX: Would you have expected the bullet to have a bigger RD in a non-+P load?
Like the Taurus version?
ElyasWolff
02-17-09, 23:08
[b]
Like the HST loads, the Barnes XPB bullets performed very well in both bare gel and 4 layer denim; the only area of concern was a propensity for the Barnes XPB bullets to have difficulties with auto windshield intermediate barriers. The Barnes bullets would frequently begin to yaw off course after only a few centimeters of travel in gel and would often veer to 90 degrees and exit the gel blocks in under 10 cm--this phenomena requires further study.
Is this phenomenon limited to the XPB, or does it affect all Barnes x-bullets. For example, will a 62 grain .224 X-Bullet also deviate off course with regularity?
PA PATRIOT
02-18-09, 00:36
I wonder if the expanding Pedals of the Barnes XPB JHP are compressing back at a different rate, or maybe one or two pedals open before the others creating a drag which tilts the bullet throwing it off course.
Just a uneducated guess by a Greenhorn.
"I wonder if the expanding Pedals of the Barnes XPB JHP are compressing back at a different rate, or maybe one or two pedals open before the others creating a drag which tilts the bullet throwing it off course."
Bingo!
Happens primarily to the XPB's--the TSX's generally end up being wad-cutters, as discussed earlier: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=26127&page=2
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The 185 gr XPB might work better as a standard pressure--one would have to test to determine that.
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I didn't make the pick, both work fine:
.45 ACP Fed 230 gr HST JHP; ave vel=906 fps (1911)
BG: pen=14.2", RD=0.76", RL=0.51", RW=230.4gr
4LD: pen=14.2", RD=0.73", RL=0.46", RW=230.6gr
.45 ACP Fed 230 gr +P HST JHP; ave vel=996 fps (1911)
BG: pen=12.2", RD=0.85", RL=0.41", RW=230.5gr
4LD: pen=14.6", RD=0.69", RL=0.46", RW=230.7gr
Burt Gummer
01-16-10, 09:57
...the only area of concern was a propensity for the Barnes XPB bullets to have difficulties with auto windshield intermediate barriers. The Barnes bullets would frequently begin to yaw off course after only a few centimeters of travel in gel and would often veer to 90 degrees and exit the gel blocks in under 10 cm--this phenomena requires further study.
One year later, has the DPX/windshield phenomena been addressed? If not, does this mean DPX fails the FBI standards?
I'm guessing that it's in the nature of the design of this style of bullet.
Great information.I still prefer a 147 (HST or Ranger) but the Barnes load is about the only 115 gr.that I would consider. Thanks for continuing to provide this info.:)
Glock17JHP
01-19-10, 13:32
Agree with DocH...
I prefer those 2 loads, but prefer the Ranger overall when I consider accuracy in my specific pistol, etc.
cronus5116
06-06-10, 09:47
Doc, simple question, if you were to buy .45 self defence ammo which one would you buy? ( which do you think is the best) Im looking to buy some but cant seem to get any clear answers. Thank you
cronus5116--I am quite happy carrying any of the following, depending upon which is most reliable and accurate in my specific pistol, as well as what is readily available in adequate quantities to ensure initial function check, zero, and carry use (minimum of 500-1000 rounds):
Barnes XPB 160 & 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal HST 230 gr JHP (P45HST2)
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)
FWIW, the HST is currently being used here--it is performing as well or perhaps slightly better in OIS incidents than the Ranger-T that was issued for the previous decade...
Shawn Dodson
06-07-10, 13:37
Doc Roberts:
Do these bullets yaw and penetrate bare and 4LD gelatin sideways (producing a "coin slot" like permanent cavity) or do they expand and penetrate "point forward" like a conventional lead-core JHP bullet? I'm curious how these lightwight bullets are able to achieve the depths of penetration that they do.
Thanks!
Shawn,
The all copper Barnes XPB bullets exhibit conventional JHP deformation. They are efficient cutters; in addition, look at all that empty space between the extended "petals" when the projectile is expanded--not much drag/resistance there...
Shawn Dodson
06-07-10, 16:47
Got it. Thanks for the explanation.
Can anyone suggest a good source for the HST ammo?
PA PATRIOT
06-07-10, 20:16
cronus5116--I am quite happy carrying any of the following, depending upon which is most reliable and accurate in my specific pistol, as well as what is readily available in adequate quantities to ensure initial function check, zero, and carry use (minimum of 500-1000 rounds):
Barnes XPB 160 & 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal HST 230 gr JHP (P45HST2)
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)
FWIW, the HST is currently being used here--it is performing as well or perhaps slightly better in OIS incidents than the Ranger-T that was issued for the previous decade...
DocGKR,
The PPD issues Federal HST in 9mm 147gr, .40S&W 165gr and .45acp 230gr and with 6800 officers it maybe a good source of OIS information.
Can anyone suggest a good source for the HST ammo?
Just keep a lookout for your favorite online stores. It rarely stays in stock very long now days. I'm shooting more .40 now days as it seems to be a lot easier to find what ammo I want on the market. Or you can go to a local gun store and they will put you on a waiting list for your ammo of choice when they get some in.
Shawn Dodson
06-08-10, 10:29
Can anyone suggest a good source for the HST ammo?
Streicher's Police Supply (http://www.policehq.com/ProductList.aspx?CategoryName=FEDERAL-AMMO&FilterValues=c5456663-1803-498f-9a57-3038b4914f95) usually has HST in stock.
Glock17JHP
06-10-10, 22:20
Shawn,
The all copper Barnes XPB bullets exhibit conventional JHP deformation. They are efficient cutters; in addition, look at all that empty space between the extended "petals" when the projectile is expanded--not much drag/resistance there...
Much like the 180 grain .357 Magnum Winchester Partition Gold...
.......the only area of concern was a propensity for the Barnes XPB bullets to have difficulties with auto windshield intermediate barriers. The Barnes bullets would frequently begin to yaw off course after only a few centimeters of travel in gel and would often veer to 90 degrees and exit the gel blocks in under 10 cm--this phenomena requires further study.
Doc-
Steering forces induced by the expanded stellate form encountering anomolous (density) regions within the soft solid flow? :confused:
Kind of a 'rudder' effect if you will?
I know I've asked before, but I have never seen an answer - how does the standard pressure 124gr HST compare to the standard pressure 147gr HST and the 124gr +p HST? Specifically from a short barrel G26?
50 FPS difference between the standard pressure and the same weight +p doesn't seem like it would make that much difference in terminal performance. The heavier 147gr may make a meaningfull difference in penetration over the 124gr, I don't know. I do remember reading on this forum that the +p aids in feeding reliability, expecially if the gun is dirty or not gripped properly.
The only data I've seen on performance came from Federal and used a G17. That data actually made the 124gr seem to perform a little better overall than did the 147gr (standard pressure only, no +p versions were tested as none were available at the time).
How would the .45 auto rim 160 gr DPX compare to the BG and 4LD performance results of the .45 acp 160 gr DPX? I'm assuming the same, but we all know assumptions can be dangerous so I figured I would ask.
We do the majority of our testing out of 4" barrels. There is virtually no difference in bullet terminal performance between a G26 and a G19; for that matter there is not much change between a G19 and a G17...
Can anyone suggest a good source for the HST ammo?
Streicher's Police Supply (http://www.policehq.com/ProductList.aspx?CategoryName=FEDERAL-AMMO&FilterValues=c5456663-1803-498f-9a57-3038b4914f95) usually has HST in stock.
This. I have purchased a thousand rounds of the 230 +P (not all at once) from Streicher's and I find their price and delivery to be the best. I have also bought Glock mags from them as well. Kyles gunshop usually stocks HST also.
Kyles is where I have found HSTs, and they have great service to boot.
Can anyone suggest a good source for the HST ammo?
Streicher's Police Supply (http://www.policehq.com/ProductList.aspx?CategoryName=FEDERAL-AMMO&FilterValues=c5456663-1803-498f-9a57-3038b4914f95) usually has HST in stock. This is where I get my HST's.There a couple of bucks cheaper per box than other places I've seen.
moonshot--Have you looked at this: http://le.atk.com/pdf/HSTInsertPoster.pdf
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