Handgun bullet performance questions

[BuckskinJoe]

Two basic questions, primarily for Doc Roberts:

1) In what I've read of Dr. Fackler's work, temporary cavity is not a material factor in handgun wounding mechanisms. Since it appears you have done more detailed work, is that still valid?

2) As best I understand, top performing handgun bullets expand fully in the first one-to-two inches of penetration. My question is two-fold: when does the bullet stop spinning (axial roll), and do better handgun bulllets tend to maintain nose-forward through penetration, or do they tend to pitch, yaw, or tumble in some fashion?

[DocGKR]

Temporary cavity from most service caliber handgun projectiles tends not to be large enough to play a significant role in wounding.

In general, if you watch a high speed video of a handgun projectile in gel, the bullet stops rotating when it stops forward travel.

Deforming projectiles, like JHP handgun bullets, tend to stay nose forward, while pointed FMJ designs tend to yaw and may turn so the base if forward.

[Jack-O]

Doc,
I know that these repeated question on subjects that you have largely addresses with us before can probably get tedious for you. Thank you so much for your patience and time to help us all understand.

You may not know it, but you are creating many "mini doc's" who then go about the web and spread your wisdom to help educate those out there who are still lacking the fundamentals of ballistics and rely largely on the same old myth and clap trap.

Please continue to help us all along in this endeavor. you are the main source for much of the information out there today because you DO communicate with us online.

I know it may not feel like it, but you are slowly but surely changing the way we all see the world of terminal ballistics and in doing so making us all safer.

A sincere heart felt THANK YOU for the work you do and your willingness and effort spent sharing it with us.

Jack

[Glock17JHP]

Keep in mind that the rotation is not as fast as the forward motion... many folks mistakenly think that the spin is so fast it is like stabbing someone with a high speed drill...

Just giving that tidbit FWIW...

[DocGKR]

What is the twist rate on the barrel...that is the spin imparted on the projectile. Most bullets don't even complete one full rotation in tissue...

[ToddG]

What is the twist rate on the barrel...that is the spin imparted on the projectile. Most bullets don't even complete one full rotation in tissue...

But, but, but ... what about the flying buzzsaws of death? I hear they spin faster when they're coated in teflon, btw.

[BuckskinJoe]

What is the twist rate on the barrel...that is the spin imparted on the projectile. Most bullets don't even complete one full rotation in tissue...

Thanks; that helps, as I was wondering whether there was any material difference between bullets that exhibit "mushroom" expansion versus more of "petal" type expansion, for example, Barnes or Winchester talon vs. Gold Dots.

[DocGKR]

I believe it was the San Francisco Chronicle that dubbed them "Whirling Blades of Death" following the 101 California shooting...

[Jim from Houston]

Ah yes, the "super scary" Black Talon...my favorite journalist quote about them was the classic "like a thousand razor blades exploding in your body".

Oh course, the medical examiner who did the autopsies after the 101 California St. attack reported that there was nothing out of the ordinary about wounds caused by the Black Talon bullets, and that they were indistinguishable from wounds caused by any other JHP design...

This stuff still has consequences til this very day however...by "getting cute" with their advertising, giving their bullet a menacing name and appearance, Winchester Olin touched off the controversy that makes many of the best modern ammo designs "law enforcement only" to this very day...

[Glock17JHP]

You must admit that 'Ranger' sounds better than 'Black Talon'...
Perhaps ammunition makers should purposely try to find cute and cudly names???

I can see it now... "Federal announced Monday their new line of ammunition called: Federal 'Fuzzy Wuzzy' Soft Hollow Point (SHP) ammunition..." ;)