View Full Version : LMT MRP piston vs. HK 416
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Following the success of British SA80A2 project that HK did for British MoD, HK carry that momentum to the M16 platform as the next logical choice. As soon as the HK 416 hit the military market, been a favorite combat platform for the elite of the elites, and a much desired weapon in the US civilian market with street prices that reached the astronomical 5000.00 for a complete barreled piston upper, HK recoil buffer and buffer spring.
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This year LMT pushed out their long under development piston system based the MRP (Monolithic rail platform). LMT has had a piston system from as far back as the SCAR solicitation, but due to production schedule/availability, timing and LMT ‘s desire to come out with a system to topple the rest, resulted in the delivery of the system until now. The standard direct gas MRP has been the Ferrari of all M4/M16 platforms with features such as quick change barrel, solid one piece rail platform, and now a piston system. Most of the piston system on the market including the HK 416 has a much different recoil impulse than the direct gas guns, the felt recoil is more of a sharper jolt. The HK 416 recoil impulse is not as smooth nor is it as soft as the direct gas guns, but for reliability, there is no matching the capability of the HK. LMT MRP in another hand, it is about as smooth and as soft recoiling as the direct gas gun, in comparison to the HK 416, the LMT piston system are far more like the recoil of the direct gas guns than anything I have shot recently, including the LWRC, POF, and PWS.
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We set up the LMT piston system with just the basic, EOTech 556, Midwest Industry flip front and rear SPLP sight, TangoDown rail panels and vertical grip. The host lower has a H2 buffer with standard recoil spring. All testing was shot using the latest in magazine technology, the new TangoDown ARC polymer magazine.
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The accuracy of the piston MRP is also on par to the hammer forged barrel on the HK 416. We shot prone from 100 yards, the scoped used was a Leupold MR/T 2-8X36 with illuminated mil-dot mounted to a American Defense Manufacturing 30mm quick detachable mount. Both guns shooting a 1-2MOA group with Hornady 75GR TAP, about 2-3 MOA with Lake City M855 and also M193. We also ran Wolf but that ammo was more for reliability testing than actual accuracy. The numbers posted by the LMT MRP are on par with any combat carbine currently fielding. I believe if I used a match trigger for the testing, the accuracy results would be slightly better.
As far as reliability, the HK has proven itself time and time again on the battlefield; can the LMT match its pace? As HK are already a proven system, we concentrated on the MRP piston. We shot 500 rounds of wolf, 500 rounds of M193 and also 500 rounds of M855 plus a saluted of reloads and factory ammo from various shooters at the training session that day. The total round count came to approximately 2000 rounds during the day. The LMT piston worked flawlessly. And the internals only took a simple wipe down to get it clean. However due to Wolf ammo, we had to scrub the throat, chamber and also the bolt head to get rid of the red sealant common on the Wolf ammo.
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HK 416 utilize a lot of proprietary components, from barrel, barrel nut, bolt, bolt carrier, to firing pin, none of this is interchangeable with the Direct gas guns, and you would have to run the HK buffer and spring in order to keep the recoil impulse in check. But with the MRP you actually have a few more common parts to the DI gas gun than the HK, you can still run the standard bolt and firing pins inside the MRP which are some of the more commonly replaced parts in the AR system. With the HK, you would pay a high price for the armor’s tool just to remove the barrel, with the LMT, two torque screws which keep the barrel secured in the monolithic rail platform. For those of us that are not on a government budget, the MRP is definitely a lot easier to service than the HK 416.
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HK piston is a top loading system, although the rail system on the HK 416 is supposed to return to zero, a lot of operators I spoke with never like to remove the rail to clean the piston since re-zeroing the PEQ15 are very time consuming task. LMT MRP is a front loading system; all parts are easily accessed by removing the front gas regulator plug, so you do not have to remove the rail system to access the piston. Also the plus is adjustable for standard fire and suppressed fire; this is a major plus for those that run suppressed guns. We had the opportunity to shoot both system with the excellent AAC M4-2000 and the result was interesting. With a suppressed piston system, it is naturally much louder than a suppressed DI gas gun due to the gas regulator releasing excess gas. The LMT MRP shot slightly quieter than the HK 416. We measured with a studio quality sound meter placed at the shooter’s left ear. The HK piston system shot approximately 1.5dB higher than a DI gas gun, but with the LMT the sound suppression came within 1 dB of the DI gas gun. Both guns ran higher cyclic rate when suppressed, but it was still slower than a Colt M4 suppressed.
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LMT MRP piston system, it is on par with the weight of the HK 416, which is heavy compare to a Direct Gas M4, but you give up in turns of weight to gain the ultimate reliability in an AR system. But With the LMT MRP piston system, you have a platform (so far) that is just as reliable as the HK 416, but at half of the cost (street price LMT at 1400.00 vs. 4000.00 for the HK 416), less recoil, softer shooting platform with slightly more common parts than the HK 416. Only remaining question is how reliable is the piston system design? This will require more than just the 2000 rounds I shot in a day, I will have to keep this gem and run a lot more rounds through it. I plan on taking this gun with me to Larry Vicker’s carbine class in South Hill, Virginia in a month time.
Thanks for the detailed review. Good to see someone with your reputation taking on the task of putting the LMT through its paces. Looking forward to the after action from the LAV class.
E
Thanks SMGLee for that great comparo!!! I'm glad to see how the LMT performs. This is the first well written 'test' of the LMT system. I'm really glad that you compared it with the HK416.
I'm looking forward to your report on how it performs during your upcoming class. Also, if Larry has any input towards the LMT.
I really like my LMT Piston!!!
Wow! Outstanding pics, and side-by-side comparison. Thanks for all your work and for putting that online. This is the kind of stuff that keeps me coming back to M4Carbine.Net. Also, if I ever decide to take the plunge and get a GP rifle, you've convinced me that the LMT is worth a serious look.
Good work!!!
Sounds great, I look forward to shooting it!
Great write up! Thanks for sharing. I have not even had the chance to shoot my LMT MRP piston yet. Hope to get out sometime this week.
Thanks, for the great comparison and pictures. Looking forward to an AAR after your class.
Great post.
A few questions:
1. How does the LMT deal with carrier tilt, since if I remember correctly, it lacks buffer pads and an anti-tilt carrier?
2. How does the LMT deal with excess gas, as if I remember correctly it doesn't have a bleedhole?
thanks?
Heavy Metal
02-16-09, 19:22
Great post.
A few questions:
1. How does the LMT deal with carrier tilt, since if I remember correctly, it lacks buffer pads and an anti-tilt carrier?
2. How does the LMT deal with excess gas, as if I remember correctly it doesn't have a bleedhole?
thanks?
The LMT has anti-tilt pads on the carrier.
SeriousStudent
02-16-09, 20:26
Thank you for the report, Mr. Lee.
Thanks for the report, I love my LMT Piston, but won't get a chance to really work it out for a while.
The LMT bleeds gas forward through a small hole, not into the handguard like some designs. I paid only the $1440 retail for my upper while it was in stock for a couple hours. Like anything AR these days, the retail price holds true as long as you find it in stock from a reputable dealer (difficult task, but the same goes for a RRA upper and everything in between). Now that HK is releasing the whole rifle later this year it will be interesting to have an apples/apples price comparison for the $1995 LMT Piston rifle vs whatever they price theirs at.
Talk about the systems and don't argue about what it cost and where, etc, etc.
Thanks for the great comparison Lee! I have been waiting for someone to compare these two guns. Please keep us updated on the LMT as the round count goes up and after the Vicker's class.
Battl3fr0nt
02-17-09, 03:40
As of right now, my AR buying days are over.. everyones are unless you get really luckie.. but if things change and you can buy LMT lowers, uppers, ect ect agian.. the LMT MRP upper and Defender 2000 lower are on my must have if obama does not **** it all up list.. for right now all my money is going on mags, ammo and I have to pick up a pistol.. but anyway I think the LMT MRP beats the HK in looks alone.. much more sleek look to it and it has a much better price for a better rifle.. I have a LMT Carbine and I love it. best AR I have owned.. maby in a year or so when all the back orders gets filled you will be able to get stuff like you once could and I will for sure be picking up one if obama has not made it to where you have to turn in your freedom and stops you from getting anymore freedom.. Im just going to enjoy what I have.. I really want a LaRue 16" upper befor I get a piston since it really seems like more of a fad right now.. I know they work better wet and all that but there are still some tweeks that need to be worked out of the piston type rifles.. its just somthing you really dont need for a home defense or match grade rifle as long as you know how to keep your gun clean and you will have to do that if it uses a piston or not.. I just need to ask one thing what is this whole recoil thing over piston AR's? I hear there is much more recoil then with the standerd M4/AR-15/M16
Every LMT piston that has been purchased that I personally know has had to go back to the factory for problems.
I'd like to see how they perform once LMT has a couple of production runs under their belt.
How about filling us in on those problems
How about filling us in on those problems
Ditto that, I'm genuinely interested in one of these.
After handling almost all of the various WunderCarbines I'm kind of drawn to the LMT -- perhaps that is due to familiarity -- but I'm glad to see some testing trickling out. If there are issues coming up, I want to know what they are.
Every LMT piston that has been purchased that I personally know has had to go back to the factory for problems.
I'm willing to bet we will never see any proof of this statement.
Can anyone name a weapon system that hasn't ever had to go back to a factory because of a problem? I can't. Anything made by humans is susceptible to being screwed up. I am sure that no XCR has ever been returned, right? :confused: :rolleyes:
I am sure that no XCR has ever been returned, right? :confused: :rolleyes:
...I was holding back from typing a similar sentence.
I'll be awaiting for his reply, if none, his post will be gone.
twodollarbill
02-17-09, 10:15
The other day I extended the round count to over 1000 on my 16" LMT Piston.
I've been using the same five Pmags and shooting M193 Privi and have yet to clean the rifle.
Zero malfunctions
My 12" SBR LMT Piston has chewed up more than 800 rounds with a Gemtech Halo firing
FA and SA, and has not failed me once.
I am truly impressed with the LMT's pistons.....and my MRP's are using the LMT Piston conversions kits.
variablebinary
02-17-09, 11:13
How about filling us in on those problems
One gun was so locked up so bad the shooter returned to it LMT with the case stuck in there. This was with PMC 55gr
The other shooter used Wolf and was only able to get the bolt back after after a hell of a lot of effort that involved yanking, pogo'ing and tapping on it. Sadly, the same thing happened after the 2nd shot.
Both guns were sent back to LMT through the dealer. I havent followed up with either shooter in a couple of months so I dont know the outcome.
I've read several other AAR's where the same problem was mentioned, but all go back to october of 2008. I havent seen or heard of any cases being stuck recently. I hope to be able to shoot someones 12" model on a shoot we have planned for March 1st. This gun was purchased 2 weeks ago so I assume it is the most recent production. I look forward to seeing how it performs.
I'm willing to bet we will never see any proof of this statement.
LOL, this is indeed funny. I have never had an LMT piston that I have sold get returned. I also know of 416 that would not work and had to go back to HK. So I am guessing the same goes for the XCR.
C4
Based on what you are saying, there's alot of unknowns. It appears that general maintanence and ammo might be the culprit here. We don't know how many rounds were fired, type, cleaning, etc.
Let's do this, leave that be and let's discuss the two systems in question.
One gun was so locked up so bad the shooter returned to it LMT with the case stuck in there. This was with PMC 55gr
The other shooter used Wolf and was only able to get the bolt back after after a hell of a lot of effort that involved yanking, pogo'ing and tapping on it. Sadly, the same thing happened after the 2nd shot.
Both guns were sent back to LMT through the dealer. I havent followed up with either shooter in a couple of months so I dont know the outcome.
I've read several other AAR's where the same problem was mentioned, but all go back to october of 2008. I havent seen or heard of any cases being stuck recently. I hope to be able to shoot someones 12" model on a shoot we have planned for March 1st. This gun was purchased 2 weeks ago so I assume it is the most recent production. I look forward to seeing how it performs.
So we have two people that are shooting sub-grade ammo have problems? Then we have "several AAR's" where a problem is mentioned? What is the definition of "several?" Got links to the AAR's?
Who knows how many piston guns LMT has out there, but I see zero issue with a handful of minor problems.
C4
Based on what you are saying, there's alot of unknowns. It appears that general maintanence and ammo might be the culprit here. We don't know how many rounds were fired, type, cleaning, etc.
Let's do this, leave that be and let's discuss the two systems in question.
Bingo! We are also talking about second and third hand info at best. This type of info is generally about worthless.
To quote forum rules and posting guidelines: Posting Suggestions
In order to maintain a site that is an effective database of good information, it is best to post information that you have first hand knowledge of. If you are repeating information that you have been told or have read from another poster, it is best to disclose that in the opening of the post.
C4
Jay Cunningham
02-17-09, 12:07
Bingo! We are also talking about second and third hand info at best. This type of info is generally about worthless.
To quote forum rules and posting guidelines: Posting Suggestions
In order to maintain a site that is an effective database of good information, it is best to post information that you have first hand knowledge of. If you are repeating information that you have been told or have read from another poster, it is best to disclose that in the opening of the post.
C4
Correct - "I heard from a guy" or "I read on the internet" doesn't fly on M4C.
Mark, Grant, and all. I will give you my information on my rifle. A little background first though.
I ordered my rifle almost one year ago exactly and I guess I was one of the first to receive one. I got mine in September of last year and I didn't get the chance to take it out until October. Here is a quote from 68forums.com that I made when I first took it shooting:
"It's accurate, at least I can hit what I shoot at from the 50yd line!!! The only hiccup was it kept on failing to pick up another round from the magazine. Luckily, my gunsmith/dealer was there and he tried, took it apart, tried again, took it apart again, shot my neighbors upper (failure to pickup again) and found a very slight drag in the buffer tube. It wasn't the bolt carrier as my neighbors upper (S&W M&P15) did the same. He suggested I contact LMT (Ryan) and let him know what I found out!!! This short-stroking was evident with both P-Mags and the standard issue LMT GI mag!!! At first I thought it might be the mags, but, now I believe it was just a break-in problem.
After Norris left, I shot it more and the more I shot, the less short-stroking... In the end, I made it through a whole mag without one short-stroke!!!!!!!! My neighbor and I will go back out tomorrow and shoot some more."
I purchased my rifle from an authorized LMT dealer down in Port St. Lucie. Norris is a good gunsmith and retired Marine. His original assessment was wrong. I called Gene Swanson at LMT and he said that he had heard other people were having a similar problem to mine. Remember, this is one of the first batch of LMT Pistons out the door. Gene said that the PMC 55gr (old Red and White box) was underpowered as all LMT uses is better quality 5.56 for testing. He said that the gas port on mine was probably too small for the type ammo I was using. He asked that I send my upper back and he would correct the problem. I did (on my own dime BTW) and I got my upper back within the week. Nothing but super customer service from all the folks and Gene at LMT!!! Since that time, I have shot the old Red and White PMC, Silver Bear, and Prvi with absolutely no problems. This is a great rifle and that is the only problem that I had with mine.:D:D:D
First hand information!!!;)
Take care,
Kelly (Cohibra45)
First batch usually have teething problems, look at the saying that don't buy a car in its first year, let the mfg work out the bugs... how about Microsoft service packs... It is really tough testing every possible imaginable thng out there... and I guess LMT should have tested with the lesser ammo on the market but I am glad they were quick to resolve the problems. Gene Swenson is a great guy to deal with and he works very hard to get any problems resolved.
this upper was received early Jan, prior to the SHOT show. I have not had a chance topush the gun until last week. We did shhot mostly LC M193 and M855, but some Wolf were used during the shoot and the LMT MRP experienced no failure of any sort.
Know the problems were all early production issues, I believe the current batch(including mine) already have the problems resolved.
I will post more pictures this weekend with the suppressor test.
Chen
Mark, Grant, and all. I will give you my information on my rifle. A little background first though.
I ordered my rifle almost one year ago exactly and I guess I was one of the first to receive one. I got mine in September of last year and I didn't get the chance to take it out until October. Here is a quote from 68forums.com that I made when I first took it shooting:
"It's accurate, at least I can hit what I shoot at from the 50yd line!!! The only hiccup was it kept on failing to pick up another round from the magazine. Luckily, my gunsmith/dealer was there and he tried, took it apart, tried again, took it apart again, shot my neighbors upper (failure to pickup again) and found a very slight drag in the buffer tube. It wasn't the bolt carrier as my neighbors upper (S&W M&P15) did the same. He suggested I contact LMT (Ryan) and let him know what I found out!!! This short-stroking was evident with both P-Mags and the standard issue LMT GI mag!!! At first I thought it might be the mags, but, now I believe it was just a break-in problem.
After Norris left, I shot it more and the more I shot, the less short-stroking... In the end, I made it through a whole mag without one short-stroke!!!!!!!! My neighbor and I will go back out tomorrow and shoot some more."
I purchased my rifle from an authorized LMT dealer down in Port St. Lucie. Norris is a good gunsmith and retired Marine. His original assessment was wrong. I called Gene Swanson at LMT and he said that he had heard other people were having a similar problem to mine. Remember, this is one of the first batch of LMT Pistons out the door. Gene said that the PMC 55gr (old Red and White box) was underpowered as all LMT uses is better quality 5.56 for testing. He said that the gas port on mine was probably too small for the type ammo I was using. He asked that I send my upper back and he would correct the problem. I did (on my own dime BTW) and I got my upper back within the week. Nothing but super customer service from all the folks and Gene at LMT!!! Since that time, I have shot the old Red and White PMC, Silver Bear, and Prvi with absolutely no problems. This is a great rifle and that is the only problem that I had with mine.:D:D:D
First hand information!!!;)
Take care,
Kelly (Cohibra45)
Thanks for the feedback (first hand info is always nice). So I wonder if there was really anything wrong with your piston gun, or was it the ammo or just need a break-in period?
C4
Thanks SMGLee and Grant. I really don't know as when I got to talk with Gene, he said instead of reaming out my gas port, he just replaced the whole barrel!!!:D
Gene did say that mine was not the first one he had to 'fix' but the production line was making barrels with slightly larger gas ports. One industry secret that he did let out was that they don't just drill 90* in the barrel for the gas port. They angle it so it will reduce erosion. Kinda neat huh???:cool: Did I say I really like mine and the company that stands behind it!!!;)
I am wondering if they are using my old barrel to do more testing with? It really doesn't matter to me as I really like mine and it does shoot every time now!!!
SMGLee...Thanks again for the report and comparison. I am looking forward to reading more and more about your experiences with your LMT Piston.
Thank you for the insightful review SMGLee. I've been lusting over the 416 for a long time but after reading your post, I may just keep my MRP and get the piston kit instead.
I'm looking forward to reading your AAR on the class you will be taking with the MRP piston rifle.
A
Thanks for the good info.
Personally, I don't see it to be a big issue. I've seen new Colt M4's not work on weak ammo.
Cohibra45's problem with the small hole was the only problem with these guns I ever heard of (read his original review). Corrected by LMT, and the new production ones have a larger hole. Also, this problem had nothing to do with the piston system.
I'll be interested in any carrier tilt wear (or lack thereof) as round counts get higher. I expect just a little wear on the front edge of the rec. extension and then it stopping and no abnormal wear inside the top of the receiver. Time will tell...
RealFastV6
02-17-09, 20:36
The cam pin channel on the LMT carrier appears to be radically different than the standard AR design.
More pictures, including the cam pin slot on the upper?
The cam pin channel on the LMT carrier appears to be radically different than the standard AR design.
More pictures, including the cam pin slot on the upper?
Somewhat conjecture, as I don't have one of these (yet):
IIRC the MRP upper assembly can be converted between DI and GP so I doubt there is anything different inside the upper. I assume the slot is different because the timing of the system requires it. It's hard to say much from a picture but it looks like the cam is more aggressive at the end, leaving the bolt locked up longer and then rotating more quickly later in the rearward stroke of the BCG. I can't tell for sure without looking up a standard carrier but the HK looks to have a similar (but perhaps less dramatic) change to the cam profile.
I could be way off though; it's past my bedtime ;)
Fascinating!
I will get a better picturre tonight, i will compare it to one of my Colt carrier.
SMG Lee
Is that the full auto carrier in the LMT? I have only seen the semi. Are the skies on the bottom of the carrier longer than the ones on the semi carrier. Thanks
I own LMTs, but I am not what anyone would say is an LMT Kool-aid drinker. I have an LMT piston upper that I got straight from LMT in January and a LWRC 14.7" that I got in March. The LMT zeroed roughly three clicks from mechanical zero and shoots super tight groups, )I have found all my LMT barrels shoot super very nice groups). I have only shot three hundred rounds through the LMT so far, but I have had zero malfunctions, that was shooting LC XM-193 w/ assorted mags, some newer P-mags and some old USGI mags. I am taking a Magpul class in July and I am debating which rifle to use for it, we will shoot 2,000 rounds in three days.
I own LMTs, but I am not what anyone would say is an LMT Kool-aid drinker. I have an LMT piston upper that I got straight from LMT in January and a LWRC 14.7" that I got in March. The LMT zeroed roughly three clicks from mechanical zero and shoots super tight groups, )I have found all my LMT barrels shoot super very nice groups). I have only shot three hundred rounds through the LMT so far, but I have had zero malfunctions, that was shooting LC XM-193 w/ assorted mags, some newer P-mags and some old USGI mags. I am taking a Magpul class in July and I am debating which rifle to use for it, we will shoot 2,000 rounds in three days.
I would take both. Shoot them and pick which one you prefer and then sell the other and buy a second of the favorite. Or keep both and buy a second of the favorite if funds allow.
How did SMGLee's LMT piston do in the Vickers Carbine class?
How did SMGLee's LMT piston do in the Vickers Carbine class?
He had zero issues with it. I meant to shoot it, but forgot.
Not to beat a dead horse, but if any of the other folks from that class had a chance to give the LMT piston a whirl, I'd love to hear some more opinions...
Myself and a buddy both bought LMT GP rifles. I bought various ammo hoping they would all work. I tried a brown wrapped ammo that was specified M193 (can get more info when I get home and look at the packaging) which did not chamber in the rifle and actually got stuck in the chamber so I had to do a butt stroke to the deck to pop the round out. I sent the upper back and Gene said it's ok and to not use shitty ammo. Since then I have left the upper off and tried chambering additional rounds and have found the following: Silver Bear seemed to chamber fine, PRIVI did not chamber two of the rounds I tried I think 55 gr and 62 gr sp, Speer Lawmen chambered ok.
What is happening is the round seems to not be fully seating so the bolt carrier group is not fully seated. I can get pictures if this will help. It would be nice if this rifle shot all ammo instead of being so finnicky.
Myself and a buddy both bought LMT GP rifles. I bought various ammo hoping they would all work. I tried a brown wrapped ammo that was specified M193 (can get more info when I get home and look at the packaging) which did not chamber in the rifle and actually got stuck in the chamber so I had to do a butt stroke to the deck to pop the round out. I sent the upper back and Gene said it's ok and to not use shitty ammo. Since then I have left the upper off and tried chambering additional rounds and have found the following: Silver Bear seemed to chamber fine, PRIVI did not chamber two of the rounds I tried I think 55 gr and 62 gr sp, Speer Lawmen chambered ok.
What is happening is the round seems to not be fully seating so the bolt carrier group is not fully seated. I can get pictures if this will help. It would be nice if this rifle shot all ammo instead of being so finnicky.
When I got mine back from Gene, I can now shoot Silver Bear, PMC, and Prvi (55gr) all day long.....not sure why you can't shoot those. Have you tried to contact LMT again to tell them of your problems?
You say that your are just trying to chamber the rounds....have you tried to chamber them with the complete rifle? Maybe you can load a couple Prvi and then start out with the Silver Bear in the magazine. Shoot the Silver Bear and see if the Prvi chambers. If it chambers, try shooting it and see if it rechambers another round.
It could be a chamber that is tight, or has some other grit or something that is preventing the chambering or removal of the spent brass. Either way, I would contact Gene again. He has been nothing but great to me with customer service. I would certainly contact them if you continue having problems.
When I got mine back from Gene, I can now shoot Silver Bear, PMC, and Prvi (55gr) all day long.....not sure why you can't shoot those.
Was the PRIVI 5.56 or .223? Looked at the box and it was 223 but saw PRIVI makes a 5.56 specific round as well. I know you SUPPOSE to be able to shoot 223 in a 5.56 and not the other way around but just trying to find out potential problems and fixes.
Gene just told me that we just need to not shoot junk ammo.
Thanks for your help.
Was the PRIVI 5.56 or .223? Looked at the box and it was 223 but saw PRIVI makes a 5.56 specific round as well. I know you SUPPOSE to be able to shoot 223 in a 5.56 and not the other way around but just trying to find out potential problems and fixes.
Gene just told me that we just need to not shoot junk ammo.
Thanks for your help.
The main difference in 223 and 5.56 is chamber pressure. 5.56 chamber pressure is higher and therefore cycles LMTs rifles better. ;) That is one reason why when I got my LMT, it wouldn't reliably cycle my older PMC which was 223. I also tried Silver Bear which was 223 (weaker).
The Prvi I have is 55gr 5.56...;) It cycles great now along with all the older 223 ammo I have. As a matter of fact, I purchased my neighbors supply of Silver Bear because it cycles fine now. Gene at LMT is a great person and shows extremely good customer service.
Cohibra
Only thing is I cannot close the bolt all the way since the rounds do not seem to be chambering in the rifle. Only rounds that are chambering in the rifle are Speer Lawmen. My buddy and I figure we will just take some ammo out and try it out then send it back if it doesn't work AGAIN.
Not to beat a dead horse, but if any of the other folks from that class had a chance to give the LMT piston a whirl, I'd love to hear some more opinions...
I have another thread started under LMT CQB MRP PISTON failure to feed...please read that.
I have buffer tube drag( cant figure out why) and just tried qual ammo as Gene said to do from LMT(I think Hornady 75 grain TAP would suffice) but I dont know...it didnt work either....
which eotech model is on the HK?
I have another thread started under LMT CQB MRP PISTON failure to feed...please read that.
I have buffer tube drag( cant figure out why) and just tried qual ammo as Gene said to do from LMT(I think Hornady 75 grain TAP would suffice) but I dont know...it didnt work either....
OK buffer tube drag is OUT( it was the BCG riding up and over the cocked hammer spur...DUH..thanks guys... I noticed the trigger moving rearward ever so slightly when cycling the charging handle over and over..... I assume this is correct function for AR's?? the slight contact with the hammer I mean?
I am shooting some LC 55 grain from 84! anyone think that would be underpowered? what about Hornady 75 grain TAP LE. my LMT wont full cycle on those either. Any LMT Piston guys try that TAP load? Does it work for you?
I want to shoot some full 5.56 Mil spec but where I live I just cant get any other than the Lake City 55 grain from 84. I would think it would still be good. but you never know.
So Far New gun, about 80 rounds through 4-5 cycled good (84 LC 55 grain) PMC Bronze =Nope, Ultramax 52 grain = Nope LC 84 mostly= Nope, Hornady 75 grain TAP LE= Nope...
Just my results so far
Thanks guys
Something tells me there is a weapons issue here and not ammo. I am about 99% certain it should be functioning with the Hornady TAP.
OK buffer tube drag is OUT( it was the BCG riding up and over the cocked hammer spur...DUH..thanks guys... I noticed the trigger moving rearward ever so slightly when cycling the charging handle over and over..... I assume this is correct function for AR's?? the slight contact with the hammer I mean?
I am shooting some LC 55 grain from 84! anyone think that would be underpowered? what about Hornady 75 grain TAP LE. my LMT wont full cycle on those either. Any LMT Piston guys try that TAP load? Does it work for you?
I want to shoot some full 5.56 Mil spec but where I live I just cant get any other than the Lake City 55 grain from 84. I would think it would still be good. but you never know.
So Far New gun, about 80 rounds through 4-5 cycled good (84 LC 55 grain) PMC Bronze =Nope, Ultramax 52 grain = Nope LC 84 mostly= Nope, Hornady 75 grain TAP LE= Nope...
Just my results so far
Thanks guys
I would take both. Shoot them and pick which one you prefer and then sell the other and buy a second of the favorite. Or keep both and buy a second of the favorite if funds allow.
Yep. Good advice. Now if only I could take it. :p
Something tells me there is a weapons issue here and not ammo. I am about 99% certain it should be functioning with the Hornady TAP.
Any of the LMT piston owners need to have their gun run through a pile of ammo to get it broke in and loosen up? I know my LMT is very tight all the way around....
I just shot mine yesterday with no weapon related issues. I did get a bad mag, but other than that good to go! I just posted my short review in this forum if you would like to read it. If your rifle is having issues contact Gene Swansen at LMT he is a good guy and will fix you up with a quickness! Good luck to ya.
Razorhunter
04-12-09, 20:25
It's a well known fact that LMT has had some simple gas port hole issues, and Gene has consistently said that many of them have needed to be opened up.
No, I don't have links either. Straight outta Genes mouth.
However, it's odd that some guys with first run GP MRP's can shoot crappy Russian .223 ammo, and others can not.
The only other issue I know of as fact, was that some of the first run GP MRP bbls had tight chamber issues, and had to be replaced, but that really wasn't a GP thing. More of a general LMT bbl issue that coincidentally hit when the GP MRP debuted I think.
All in all, I think this is going to end up being one of the best gas piston setups, and I also think it will wind up needing the least amount of refinements, as compared to other GP systems on the market.
I have been following GP info for a while now, and the more I research, the more I'm liking LMT and LWRC.
Hk is just too much of a risk IMO. I know some of the 416's run great, but some don't even have M4 feedramps, and that IMO is ridiculous whether it runs or not.
Additionally, I'm thinking the newest generation of LWRC guns are going to be a good buy as well.
Half the price of an Hk, and you've got customer service and spare parts if you need them. Try going on over to Hkparts.net and noting the price of an Hk bcg. $695.
Anyhow, I appreciate the writeup, although I didn't have time to delve completely into it.
I've been waiting for a writeup with good pics like this, in regards to the LMT and the 416.
Got a link to this article on CalGuns. Nice write up, Thanks.
Not to beat a dead horse, but if any of the other folks from that class had a chance to give the LMT piston a whirl, I'd love to hear some more opinions...
Ditto.
Thanks.
Any of the LMT piston owners need to have their gun run through a pile of ammo to get it broke in and loosen up? I know my LMT is very tight all the way around....
I got my LMT 12" Piston in Oct 09 and have ran the following ammo with no issues so far. PMC Bronze .223, Federal XM193 5.56, TAP 5.56, MK262. So far, a little over 1000 rounds through the rifle and 180 rounds being suppressed.
Got a link to this article on CalGuns. Nice write up, Thanks.
Ditto.
Thanks.
I ran a 16" LMT piston upper on top of an LMT lower through a three day Magpul class last July. I shot about 1,800 rounds through it without a single malfunction. I was shooting WWB 55 gr. .223. At the end of days 1 & 2, I pulled the carrier out, wiped it with an oily rag and put on some fresh EWL on the contact points. I was using P-mags. The thing shoots very nice groups! I'm not an LMT Kool-aid drinker, they certainly have QC issues, but this upper is serving me very well.
rifle_eyes
05-24-10, 19:11
Lol, I posted a link to this thread on "HKpro" forums asking them what they thought and they banned me for "trolling" lmao. I'm guessing they were pretty mad.
Lol, I posted a link to this thread on "HKpro" forums asking them what they thought and they banned me for "trolling" lmao. I'm guessing they were pretty mad.
Bad boy! :D
I tire of the worship of products and platforms. NONE of them are perfect: not H&K, not Glock, not Porsche, not ANY.
rifle_eyes
05-24-10, 22:07
Bad boy! :D
I tire of the worship of products and platforms. NONE of them are perfect: not H&K, not Glock, not Porsche, not ANY.
i know, but it will always be like that.
i know, but it will always be like that.
True. Now let me get back to praying to the Germanic Gods of the Autobahn down near Stuttgart, Zuffenhausen and der Nurburgring. :p
I *think* most LMTs are babied - like most HK pistols and G-Series rifles. And with the economy being what it is the vast majority aren't REALLY shooting, either. Not like, say, 1998 through 2004.
Any LMT owners who have run their Gas Piston carbines???
Buehler?
rifle_eyes
05-25-10, 09:55
True. Now let me get back to praying to the Germanic Gods of the Autobahn down near Stuttgart, Zuffenhausen and der Nurburgring. :p
I *think* most LMTs are babied - like most HK pistols and G-Series rifles. And with the economy being what it is the vast majority aren't REALLY shooting, either. Not like, say, 1998 through 2004.
Any LMT owners who have run their Gas Piston carbines???
Buehler?
I've shot 500 rnds through mine with no problems at all, but that's not really 'running' it. I just bought it though
http://leef.psyche7.net/Pictures/0523002324.jpg
Failure2Stop
05-25-10, 09:56
Guys, this thread was over a year old, with a few smatterings four months ago. Ressurecting a thread like this is usually reserved for posting new info.
Posting that some other forum doesn't like it doesn't add much.
If someone has actual useful information, let me know and I will reopen the thread.
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