Dave Sevigny, new F.A.S.T. Record (3.56s) [Archive]

SHIVAN

02-18-09, 11:29

I'm fairly certain he was using the "Team Glock" load that AAA makes, which is a 147gr.

I know he's done it many times hovering around the 4-second mark with his stock carry gun and ammo (G23 & 165gr Dold Dot), and that was a year ago.

Either way, it is pretty amazing -- was curious though.

mark5pt56

02-18-09, 11:31

Very good, he's not human

ToddG

02-18-09, 11:35

I'm fairly certain that if you put standard Blazer or WWB in his gun and he ran the drill ten times, his scores would pretty much be the same average as with the Team Glock load. It makes a difference over the course of hundreds of rounds at a big match, but for a 6-shot drill involving both a draw from concealment and a reload as well as a third of the shots on a fairly small target, it's just not enough of a factor to matter.

For reference, my best clean run ever was a 3.89 and that was:
not run cold, but rather was within a string of about 10 attempts, many of which were much slower and/or had misses
not run from concealment
not run from an acceptable retention holster

The "modified" score due to the holster would be 4.39, and it still wouldn't count because there were warm-up runs.

My best legitimate run was a 4.26, and my best witnessed/on-film run was a 4.78.

You also have to keep in mind that I've been using this drill for years, whereas Dave had never heard of it before last year and only really sat down to set the record on a lark.

That bastard ...

M4arc

02-18-09, 12:26

Sweet! Man that is fast. I hadn't even figured out what was going on and he was done!

OT: I'd like to see his Glock collection :D

HowardCohodas

02-18-09, 12:36

That bastard ...

I cant speak to the circumstances of his birth, but he is clearly a savant. :D

G34Shooter

02-18-09, 12:51

:eek:

ToddG

02-18-09, 13:45

I cant speak to the circumstances of his birth, but he is clearly a savant. :D

While there is no question that Dave is incredibly gifted, he's also worked incredibly hard to get where he is. He credits his athleticism on his previous semi-pro hockey playing, and when he first got into competitive shooting he pretty much did nothing but dry fire every night. Someone once told me Dave didn't even own a television and didn't need one because he was too busy dry firing all evening long. :cool:

There are gifted shooters and there are hard working shooters, but to get where Dave is both in terms of raw skill and accomplishment you need to have both.

HowardCohodas

02-18-09, 14:29

While there is no question that Dave is incredibly gifted, he's also worked incredibly hard to get where he is. He credits his athleticism on his previous semi-pro hockey playing, and when he first got into competitive shooting he pretty much did nothing but dry fire every night. Someone once told me Dave didn't even own a television and didn't need one because he was too busy dry firing all evening long. :cool:

There are gifted shooters and there are hard working shooters, but to get where Dave is both in terms of raw skill and accomplishment you need to have both.

savant
Noun
a very wise and knowledgeable man

savant Synonyms

savant

n.

philosopher, authority, intellectual; see master 3, scholar 2.

Synonyms

master definition

mas·ter (mas′tər, mäs′-)

noun
5. the one that excels in a contest, skill, etc.; victor or superior

We are in violent agreement. Perhaps I was trying to be too clever.

ToddG

02-18-09, 14:50

We are in violent agreement. Perhaps I was trying to be too clever.

Or perhaps I simply wasn't clever enough. :cool:

Mark71

02-18-09, 14:54

Damn that was fast!
:eek:

trio

02-18-09, 15:37

i *think* I can beat that.......

if you let me use a G18.....

oh, and we're gonna need a 8.5x11 piece of paper too....

and the reload, we'll have to get rid of that....

and let me stand closer....

but...G18, notebook paper, closer and no reload and I *think* i definitely got this....:D

Buckaroo

02-18-09, 17:23

mac37

02-18-09, 19:19

I don't know if a handicapped person could come close to those times.

Matt Edwards

02-18-09, 21:00

I don't see what the big deal is. I can do it in 35.6 seconds any day of the week!;)

Robb Jensen

02-18-09, 21:40

Damn beat my best time by just over a 1.2 seconds.

He's a professional shooter and I'm 10% sponsored......I'm not doing too bad, :D

Dave is one hell of a shooter, if you ever get he chance to see him compete...do it.

Marcus L.

02-18-09, 21:58

Jay Cunningham

02-18-09, 22:04

While there is no question that Dave is incredibly gifted, he's also worked incredibly hard to get where he is. He credits his athleticism on his previous semi-pro hockey playing, and when he first got into competitive shooting he pretty much did nothing but dry fire every night. Someone once told me Dave didn't even own a television and didn't need one because he was too busy dry firing all evening long. :cool:

There are gifted shooters and there are hard working shooters, but to get where Dave is both in terms of raw skill and accomplishment you need to have both.

Most of us could be so much better than we are - Dave is an inspiration.

Gutshot John

02-18-09, 22:57

You know what really sucks about Dave... He's genuinely one of the nicest guys you'll ever run across AND he's a Steeler fan. :)

It's always a pleasure to watch him shoot and the fact that he never picked up a handgun until his late 20s blows my mind.

SingleStacker45

02-18-09, 23:01

This guy eats, sleeps, and(well, you get the idea)......with that pistol. Well done Dave. Is that drill strickly for an unsecured pistol draw, or is it considered single retention? I know I'll never come close to 3.5s with my triple retention duty holster.

Don't be so sure. Check out the triple retention holster Todd uses later in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqaiJV1gIBw&feature=related

Mule

SHIVAN

02-18-09, 23:14

What's funny is that the person whose shooting inspired me to actually concentrate on pistol work was none other then the person who is equally inspired by Dave's shooting -- posting it here for us. :)

I was shooting an IDPA "lite" fun match at Shooter's Paradise, and this guy from Sig was shooting a 357Sig, using defensive ammo and was shooting damn well. I was embarassed by how poorly I handled my pistol by comparison, and decided to inspire myself to take learning some pistolcraft.

Funny how shooting well can infect others with the desire to want to shoot well.

Marcus L.

02-19-09, 11:10

Don't be so sure. Check out the triple retention holster Todd uses later in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqaiJV1gIBw&feature=related

Mule

We've had consistant problems with Serpa durability and retention. During retention exersizes, they are easy to rip completely off the belt, and easy for a person not familiar with the retention operation to figure out how to get the pistol out of the holster in under 10 seconds with their level 2 and level 3 models. A strong suspect can rip the pistol out of the holster too. They may be fast, but they are worthless as a serious duty holster. I'd rather use a strong single retention holster than my old Serpa that popped off my belt when I got out of my patrol vehicle to chase a suspect.

We have never been able to rip off a Safariland holster from the duty belt even with two strong trainers working together, and it takes most people who are not familiar with the retention operation of their level 3 models a minute plus to figure out the operation and get the pistol out of the holster. Unfortunately, it takes slightly longer to get it out of the holster, but with LEOs who do not always have the luxury of perfect retention skills when dealing with mulitple suspects or going hands on.....the tools of the trade need to be stronger and more secure.

However, l don't want to lead this thread astray. Once again, your skill is very impressive, Dave.

SingleStacker45

02-20-09, 22:06

We've had consistant problems with Serpa durability and retention. During retention exersizes, they are easy to rip completely off the belt, and easy for a person not familiar with the retention operation to figure out how to get the pistol out of the holster in under 10 seconds with their level 2 and level 3 models. A strong suspect can rip the pistol out of the holster too. They may be fast, but they are worthless as a serious duty holster. I'd rather use a strong single retention holster than my old Serpa that popped off my belt when I got out of my patrol vehicle to chase a suspect.

We have never been able to rip off a Safariland holster from the duty belt even with two strong trainers working together, and it takes most people who are not familiar with the retention operation of their level 3 models a minute plus to figure out the operation and get the pistol out of the holster. Unfortunately, it takes slightly longer to get it out of the holster, but with LEOs who do not always have the luxury of perfect retention skills when dealing with mulitple suspects or going hands on.....the tools of the trade need to be stronger and more secure.

However, l don't want to lead this thread astray. Once again, your skill is very impressive, Dave.

Oh well, I was just trying to help. Thanks for making me feel like crap.:D

Mule

varoadking

02-21-09, 05:13

So...what kind of time does the average Joe record on this drill with 6 clean hits?

HowardCohodas

02-21-09, 05:51

So...what kind of time does the average Joe record on this drill with 6 clean hits?

http://pistol-training.com/drills/fast-fundamentals-accuracy-speed-test

Ranking:

* 10+ seconds: Novice
* less than 10 seconds: Intermediate
* less than 7 seconds: Advanced
* less than 5 seconds: Expert

If shooter is using a retention holster and flap (covered) magazine pouches, subtract 0.5 seconds from the recorded time. If shooter is using an open-top retention holster (e.g., Blackhawk SERPA or Safariland ALS) with no concealment, add 0.50 seconds to the recorded time.

Marcus L.

02-21-09, 07:13

Oh well, I was just trying to help. Thanks for making me feel like crap.:D

Mule

LOL.....don't. I appreciate the videos. :)

ToddG

02-21-09, 08:36

So...what kind of time does the average Joe record on this drill with 6 clean hits?

Without trying to sound snarky, it really does depend upon what you mean by "average Joe." Given the prerequisites for my classes, we're seeing shooters who are above average compared to the typical regular practitioner who is already head and shoulders above the average range goober.

Looking at recent classes, the average "best" run (of 4) for the students was 8.23 after factoring in misses. About 80% of those "best" runs were clean. Looking at only the clean runs, the average "best" is 7.64 seconds. I only have the "best" runs in my database -- I keep notes and scores for all students -- so I'd had to pull out the handwritten scoresheets used during classes to get more complete data. If I had to guess, factoring in misses I'd say the average score at the beginning of class is around 9 seconds. There are a lot of 3x5 misses the first time through. :cool:

I've put quite a few well known competitors & instructors through the drill and so far there are still only three coins out (00, 01, and 02). I keep the next coin in my range bag just in case someone wants to give it a try and makes it. If I'm going to an event with a lot of serious shooters, I'll actually bring along two or three just in case we get a chance to run the drill during a break.

http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/ptc-coin.jpg

G34Shooter

02-21-09, 12:15

I'll be happy if I can get under 8 seconds, especially with no way to practice it in my area :rolleyes:

ToddG

02-21-09, 15:15

I'll be happy if I can get under 8 seconds, especially with no way to practice it in my area :rolleyes:

Practicing the drill is not the best way to get good at it. That's the goal of the drill ... it tests a bunch of fundamentals (draw, accuracy on a small target, reload, speed on a large target). So if you just work on your fundamentals, even dry fire, you should do just fine.

G34Shooter

02-21-09, 15:18

Practicing the drill is not the best way to get good at it. That's the goal of the drill ... it tests a bunch of fundamentals (draw, accuracy on a small target, reload, speed on a large target). So if you just work on your fundamentals, even dry fire, you should do just fine.

I better start dry firing again :p

gtmtnbiker98

02-21-09, 15:48

I'm headed for the range tomorrow and I'm going to give it a try. Just downloaded the instruction sheet with target cut outs. I'll report my results.

torrpd

02-21-09, 21:23

If you are running retention on the holster and mag pouches, are you still doing this from concealment?

QuickStrike

02-22-09, 06:11

Neato! Just printed some targets out. Will just dry fire at it for now. Dunno if the pistol range staff will let me draw from a holster...

varoadking

02-22-09, 18:41

Not snarky at all...

I'll have to give this a try sometime and let you know how the average range goober does...

Without trying to sound snarky, it really does depend upon what you mean by "average Joe." Given the prerequisites for my classes, we're seeing shooters who are above average compared to the typical regular practitioner who is already head and shoulders above the average range goober.

Looking at recent classes, the average "best" run (of 4) for the students was 8.23 after factoring in misses. About 80% of those "best" runs were clean. Looking at only the clean runs, the average "best" is 7.64 seconds. I only have the "best" runs in my database -- I keep notes and scores for all students -- so I'd had to pull out the handwritten scoresheets used during classes to get more complete data. If I had to guess, factoring in misses I'd say the average score at the beginning of class is around 9 seconds. There are a lot of 3x5 misses the first time through. :cool:

I've put quite a few well known competitors & instructors through the drill and so far there are still only three coins out (00, 01, and 02). I keep the next coin in my range bag just in case someone wants to give it a try and makes it. If I'm going to an event with a lot of serious shooters, I'll actually bring along two or three just in case we get a chance to run the drill during a break.

http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/ptc-coin.jpg

ToddG

02-23-09, 18:26

I'll have to give this a try sometime and let you know how the average range goober does...

:cool:

A friend of mine just put some of his local LEOs through it in preparation for a class I'm teaching in MT. They scored in the 10-second range. It will be interesting to see how much they improve between now & May.

Matt Edwards

02-23-09, 21:36

DELETED

ToddG

02-25-09, 09:40

HowardCohodas

02-25-09, 10:30

I've never had someone show up to class using a SmartCarry, and I would have to talk with the individual student about it before I was comfortable allowing it. The primary issue is that it is slower to reholster, and since we do hundreds and hundreds of draws during a 2-day class, that slows down the whole class.

I know the emoticons are hard to decode on the forum, but the wink was meant to indicate I'm only about 30% serious. When I compete, I use a Blade-Tech IDPA compliant holster. Should I be privileged to take your class someday, I would likely do the same.

Nathan_Bell

02-25-09, 13:18

After our class with Todd August '08 I ran it in 8.63 :eek:

Only 5 seconds off of record pace. :p

ToddG

02-25-09, 14:29

Yeah, but for Nathan we had to penalize him one tenth of a second for every foot in height over 6', so that was like an extra three seconds right there.

Nathan_Bell

02-25-09, 14:33

Yeah, but for Nathan we had to penalize him one tenth of a second for every foot in height over 6', so that was like an extra three seconds right there.

You're just jealous that when I finally get my arms at full extension I only have to shoot 3 yards instead of 7 :D

ToddG

02-25-09, 14:52

Dude, that is so much funnier than what I wrote. Dammit! :cool:

SHIVAN

02-25-09, 15:30

So a 6004 is a 0.5 addition in time?

ToddG

02-25-09, 15:34

SHIVAN -- Negative. A 6004 uses the SLS which is a closed-top retention holster. While it's fast, there is enough extra movement and fumble-factor risk that we count it as a retention holster. So if you shoot from a 6004 you don't need a concealment garment and your time is as-is. If you also use retention (flap closed) mag pouches, you take half a second off your time.

SHIVAN

02-25-09, 15:36

Got it. I was thinking 6004 when you said an ALS holster.

ToddG

02-25-09, 15:40

Got it. I was thinking 6004 when you said an ALS holster.

The ALS version is the 6304.

threeheadeddog

03-06-09, 19:42

I thought I already posted this reply but apparently it got lost or I did not do something right.

I decided that I couldnt stand it any longer and after 3-4 months finally got to go back out shooting(I work in the auto industry and my hobby and payroll are at odds with one another ATM). I had read this thread so I grabbed my CZ SP-01(completly stock) and my timer and went out to shoot some FAST drills.

I went out and shot the drill 8 times always shooting it in 2 back to back runs then pause for reload and observation. Having been so long since I shot I felt very rusty almost akward the first couple of sets. One thing that I noticed on all 8 runs was that since I practice mostly speed reloads(I know a couple of guys that have broken multiple slide stops on there 1911's due to practicing slide lock reloads) I was both out of timing on the reload and had a poor time getting back into shooting position. I did however manage to shoot the drill clean 3 of the 4 sets of runs. On the first run of the third set I missed one of the shots and in a frustrated brain dump managed to miss 3 of the 4 shots out of the second mag on the second run.

I consider myself a decent shooter who is at least semi "smooth" with my fundamentals but this drill was definatly worth while. It was challanging and helped to point out the horrible debacle of my slide lock reloads. I will definatly be incorperating it into what I hope are more regular training and practice sessions.