View Full Version : SHOT Show Teasers?
K.L. Davis
12-10-06, 18:01
Okay... so no one else has broached this, let's see how it turns out.
With some of the folks that are part of M4C, we all know there has to be some good info out there -- being as cryptic as you have to, what sort of new goodies can the folks expect to see at SHOT?
And we all know SOPMOD Block II is done... what else is on the menu?
Robb Jensen
12-10-06, 18:18
I think the single stack Glock .45ACP will be there, the S&W M&P45, SIG 556.
We're supposed to have 2 SIG 556s on Tuesday (I'll believe that when I see them).
Grendelizer
12-10-06, 18:34
I don't know if they will be "tactical" configurations, but Les Baer has already announced on his Website that he'll have his ARs in 6.5 Grendel at SHOT 2007, along with Black Hills 6.5 Grendel ammunition, which will have "tactical" implications. :D
John
Rob, WOuld be nice to see some current pics of the production 556.
Mark
Robb Jensen
12-10-06, 18:50
Rob, WOuld be nice to see some current pics of the production 556.
Mark
I'll bring my camera with me to work on Tuesday and take a couple and post some pics. The rails/handguards are supposed to be shorter, the grip more like a SIG 550/551/552 but the same cheap looking Samco style CAR stock (which should be easy to swap to any carbine AR stock). I think it would look good with a CTR stock on it.
I forget what the conclusion was, are they putting a mil=spec tube on it?
Robb Jensen
12-10-06, 19:54
I forget what the conclusion was, are they putting a mil=spec tube on it?
I don't know, but check it when we get it.
I forget what the conclusion was, are they putting a mil=spec tube on it?
It is my understanding that they are using a shortened commercial tube, but someone here my correct me on that...
With some of the folks that are part of M4C, we all know there has to be some good info out there -- being as cryptic as you have to, what sort of new goodies can the folks expect to see at SHOT?
The Shrike will finally be released.
I don't know if they will be "tactical" configurations, but Les Baer has already announced on his Website that he'll have his ARs in 6.5 Grendel at SHOT 2007, along with Black Hills 6.5 Grendel ammunition, which will have "tactical" implications. :D
John
Well David F did a review of the Les Baer and it had a 16" barrel....Also Leupold has some new hunting Optics coming out (VX-7) and the pricing is Outrageous! I am sure if they have a new lens for the hunting line than the tactical line will get a face lift...
I also heard that Wolf is coming out with Grendel Ammo:D
The only SS teaser I can think of is that K.L. will be there to sign autographs. :D
C4
militarymoron
12-11-06, 11:33
better get there early. there was a line of people waiting for K.L.'s autograph at the SAR show in phoenix.
better get there early. there was a line of people waiting for K.L.'s autograph at the SAR show in phoenix.
No doubt! I hope I can get my pic taken with him. :eek:
C4
K.L. Davis
12-11-06, 12:18
No doubt! I hope I can get my pic taken with him. :eek:
C4
Only if you pose in a speedo :p
K.L. Davis
12-11-06, 12:21
better get there early. there was a line of people waiting for K.L.'s autograph at the SAR show in phoenix.
Nah, it may have appeared that way... but I was just validating parking.
Now the hit attraction was in the SAW booth!
There are a few large things on the horizon, but I'm not sure if they are going to be released at this SHOT or the next. I would guess that the SOPMOD items will be main attractions. A few companies also have out complete uppers, but I'm not sure that qualifies as "new" goodies.
I think the three "P"s will be well covered (piston, piston, piston).
I think the three "P"s will be well covered (piston, piston, piston).
Thank you for reminding me. That's something that is high on my list of things to check out.
The only SS teaser I can think of is that K.L. will be there to sign autographs. :D
C4
Rumor has it that he will be teaming up with Chuck Norris to hand out free ass-kickings.
:D
Turbo Supra
12-11-06, 13:22
I'll bring my camera with me to work on Tuesday and take a couple and post some pics. The rails/handguards are supposed to be shorter, the grip more like a SIG 550/551/552 but the same cheap looking Samco style CAR stock (which should be easy to swap to any carbine AR stock). I think it would look good with a CTR stock on it.
Yep. Got the pics via email from Sigarms. They are posted at Sigforum.com...
http://sigforum.com/movedimages/Erhardt/SIG556_Production_Rifle.jpg
baffle Stack
12-11-06, 17:05
Man they really butchered the 550:(
eta: and where the heck are the sights? I like to hit my target.
olds442tyguy
12-11-06, 17:15
I'm really looking forward to the new TR21 Accupoint reticles. I'm really hoping they didn't go overboard, as the TR21's selling point was it's basic functionality to price ratio.
The 556 doesn't come standard with any sighting system. The good news is they dropped 1/9 twist in favor of 1/7. Standard 550/551 handguards are supposed to work in place of the cheap craptastic junk handguards they put on it. Hopefully someone picks up the ball they dropped and offers a traditional stock or atleast a folding AR stock adapter.
Turbo Supra
12-11-06, 18:26
The email we all received from Sigarms said that a traditional SIG551 forearm will be available from SwissArms and can be purchased from Sigarms, USA.
There are quite a few good photoshops at Sigforum of what the gun will look like with some minor changes. Mine is getting a 551 forearm and a Magpul CTR stock, along with my TA31RCO-M4 and a set of Troy flip-ups.
Done. :cool:
Turbo Supra
12-11-06, 18:31
Fun with Photoshop...
http://i12.tinypic.com/43nlz55.jpg
http://www.visuality.com/personal/556/556_ctr.jpg
http://www.visuality.com/personal/556/556_ctrpad.jpg
http://www.visuality.com/personal/556/556_classic.jpg
http://www.visuality.com/personal/556/556_diopter.jpg
Bloodbathdisplay
12-11-06, 19:10
That thing looks like first samco slipped the sig 550 a roofie and nine months later had a bastard child that they decided to call the 556.
Nah, it may have appeared that way... but I was just validating parking.
Now the hit attraction was in the SAW booth!
And what would that have been?
Turbo Supra
12-11-06, 21:28
That thing looks like first samco slipped the sig 550 a roofie and nine months later had a bastard child that they decided to call the 556.
Sure does. Luckily, for the people who realize a simple buttstock body change and a forearm swap take 30 seconds, there won't be any availability problems due to the fact those people who keep whining about the 556 appearance refuse to buy one...
K.L. Davis
12-11-06, 23:04
And what would that have been?
Why the great mustachioed nyeti of course.
Bloodbathdisplay
12-11-06, 23:52
Sure does. Luckily, for the people who realize a simple buttstock body change and a forearm swap take 30 seconds, there won't be any availability problems due to the fact those people who keep whining about the 556 appearance refuse to buy one...
The 556 doesn't exactly look like you'll be slappin a larue, DD, Troy, etc. on there anytime soon. The buttstock I understand but the forearm doesn't look like it will accept AR ones. I don't think the looks will be the deciding factor in me buying one though.
Why the great mustachioed nyeti of course.
I actually shaved my mustache off the day after the SAR show. My wife wanted that for her birthday, and she really deserved to get whatever she wanted (she's battling cancer and really went through hell this last year). It is the first time I have not had a mustache since Jan. 1988..................everyone thinks I am both better looking and look 10 years younger. I decided on giving momma a month and the stache comes back in january.
Thank goodness I'm not the only person who thinks the 556 looks like ass. Every post I've seen on some other boards raved about how wonderful the thing is, and I thought that somehow I was missing something.
I'm really hoping for a full size Glock 36, but we'll see what happens. I already am #1 on the list at SAW for a LE 1020 for my piston 5.56 gun and I'll grab a POF .308 at some point. I've also been waiting for the Surefire x200 with an integral laser.
Thank goodness I'm not the only person who thinks the 556 looks like ass. Every post I've seen on some other boards raved about how wonderful the thing is, and I thought that somehow I was missing something.
I could stand for it to look like crap if it at least served a purpose that other, more common, carbines do not. So far I haven't seen that purpose.
I think the single stack Glock .45ACP will be there
Please let this be true, please, please, please!
Turbo Supra
12-12-06, 09:34
The 556 doesn't exactly look like you'll be slappin a larue, DD, Troy, etc. on there anytime soon. The buttstock I understand but the forearm doesn't look like it will accept AR ones.It's not supposed to accept an AR forearm---it isn't an AR. It is a SIG. It accepts SIG forearms and railed units made for SIGs, such as the B&T model. You can be sure that LaRue, etc. will be offering forearms as well.
B&T:
http://i14.tinypic.com/40d9o9f.jpg
I don't think the looks will be the deciding factor in me buying one though.What is then? Not starting a flamefest, just honestly curious.
It's not supposed to accept an AR forearm---it isn't an AR. It is a SIG. It accepts SIG forearms and railed units made for SIGs, such as the B&T model. You can be sure that LaRue, etc. will be offering forearms as well.
B&T:
http://i14.tinypic.com/40d9o9f.jpg
What is then? Not starting a flamefest, just honestly curious.
Probably every other aspect- function, reliability, price, etc. :eek:
Turbo Supra
12-12-06, 11:17
function, reliability, priceFunction & reliability? A 5.56mm AK-style weapon built by the Swiss. Do the math. ;)
Price? I heard $1200. How much is a premium-brand AR with a piston conversion? :eek:
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I am looking forward to receiving mine soon. I will be sure to post pictures, of course.
Robb Jensen
12-12-06, 11:21
The 556s didn't ship yesterday, maybe today? :confused:
Yes, I'm saying those are the other factors besides looks.
I haven't seen any after action reports on them on a widespread basis.
Looks like you represent the other reason many people dislike them at this point- the huge groupie following. Not to say you are one, but there are a lot of dorks out there who like the original from video games, movies and airsoft. Being lumped into that crowd is not appealing to some of us.
5.56mm AK-style
built by the Swiss.
piston conversion
These are assets how?
I have to say, having never had an issue related to the operating system design on ANY AR, I don't see the point in even arguing the "AK-style" or "piston" as assets.
So at the end of the day you have a heavy AR that takes non-standard parts.
Well Rob, they kick butt in CounterStrike!
Supra- I'm NOT referring to you in any way.
These are assets how?
I have to say, having never had an issue related to the operating system design on ANY AR, I don't see the point in even arguing the "AK-style" or "piston" as assets.
So at the end of the day you have a heavy AR that takes non-standard parts.
The AR does have limits, but you have to run it past 500rds at one sitting to find it.
The Ak or piston variants have their place for sure and I am looking forward to SS to see if SIG fixed the train wreck that they showed off last year.
C4
I'd like more info about how the 1020 is coming along.
There are guys at Sigforum.com claiming to have pics of the production SIGs, and some of the issues seem to be rectified.
Turbo Supra
12-12-06, 13:57
Looks like you represent the other reason many people dislike them at this point- the huge groupie following. Not to say you are one, but there are a lot of dorks out there who like the original from video games, movies and airsoft. Being lumped into that crowd is not appealing to some of us.I am hardly representative of "that" crowd. Am I a SIG fan? Sure am. I own 7 SIG pistols. Am I a nutswinger? Not at all. I am excited about this rifle just as people are excited about the SCAR or any other new offering.
I own 3 AR and 2 HK rifles, one VEPR AK, and a variety of other weapons. I have never played Airsoft or Counterstrike in my life. I just enjoy collecting and shooting firearms of all types. I have had the opportunity to shoot an actual SwissArms SIG550 many years ago. I found it to be comfortable and very accurate. I had no malfunctions all day using a variety of cheap surplus ammo. I have wanted a similar rifle since then, and the SIG556 is the best answer for me right now. As a bonus, it accepts plentiful AR mags.
For the record, I think the reason so many people dislike them currently is because the AR groupies most definitely outweigh the SIG groupies at least 100 to 1. AR groupies feel every other rifle is inferior...
I have to say, having never had an issue related to the operating system design on ANY AR, I don't see the point in even arguing the "AK-style" or "piston" as assets.Happy for you. I also have never had an operating system issue. However, the AK has proven to be extremely reliable in the most adverse conditions with minimal maintenance. Combine that with better ergonomics (than an AK) as designed by SwissArms and you have a nice package.
So at the end of the day you have a heavy AR that takes non-standard parts.Huh? Ummmm, no. You have a SIG550 that accepts AR mags. By your logic, the SCAR and the FS2000 are also just ARs... :rolleyes:
FYI I did tell you I wasn't talking about you- I was pretty sure I wasn't and now I know for sure. You like the 550s from experience. Most don't.
Huh? Ummmm, no. You have a SIG550 that accepts AR mags. By your logic, the SCAR and the FS2000 are also just ARs... :rolleyes:
As a matter of fact, yes.
Better is better, different isn't better. In fact, in this case, different is worse.
All of those rifles are different, none (as demonstrated up to this point) are better.
So, please expound upon what makes the 556 a quantifiable improvement over the current AR design. Is it demonstrably more reliable? Is it demonstrably more accurate? Lighter? More ergonomic? Cheaper?
I fail to see, other than from a collector's point of view, what makes it better.
Turbo Supra
12-12-06, 14:18
FYI I did tell you I wasn't talking about you- I was pretty sure I wasn't and now I know for sure. You like the 550s from experience. Most don't.I saw you said that, bro. Thanks for keeping me out of the mall-ninja group. :D
Turbo Supra
12-12-06, 14:31
As a matter of fact, yes.Really? Weapon A uses magazines also used in Weapon B, so Weapon A is just another Weapon B, huh? Ummm, sure. :rolleyes:
Better is better, different isn't better. In fact, in this case, different is worse.Feel free to explain how in this case, it is worse. Every weapon has it's good points and bad points.
So, please expound upon what makes the 556 a quantifiable improvement over the current AR design.I would be happy to, if I ever made such a claim. Make sure you sharpen your reading skills before jumping to conclusions. I never said the SIG platform was "better" than the AR platform. I just said "I want one". Duh.
I fail to see, other than from a collector's point of view, what makes it better.Cool. Leave the discussion and simply don't buy one. Done. Does a weapon have to be "better" than another to make you buy it? That is odd logic. Gee, I better replace all my ARs with M14s. I hear those are "better". My current weekend toy is a "better" car than a 1965 427 AC Cobra, but I still want one badly...
Let's keep the thread friendly instead of arguing over weapons you aren't going to own anyway. That's what Counterstrike fans do, right?
Bloodbathdisplay
12-12-06, 17:51
What is then? Not starting a flamefest, just honestly curious.
Mainly the results it turns out once put into actual production and reaches the hands of users. Once I know what the pros and cons are (not what is claimed) I can weigh it against other weapons I have my eye on. I really have no doubts that this will be one fine weapon, mainly based on SIG's reputation. I look forward to these becoming available but I don't see my self camping outside the gunstore for the release just to be the first to have it. I mean look at the guys who first bought the PS90 and the FS2000 the PS90 was fetching ridiculous amounts of money and the FS2000 wasn't too far behind not to mention the "recall", I would now feel comfortable buying either one. I'll let all the "I gotta have one now" people pay for SIG's 556 release party and fine tuning, by the time they get all the bugs worked out it will be cheaper, more reliable and all kinds of add-on goodies available...kind of like cars.
For what its worth, I always liked the 550/551's. Personally, I could care less if these things take AR mags.............generally the biggest weakness in the AR system. I realize that the mag thing is important to many, but I just don't get re-engineering weapons to take magazines that are less reliable than the mags that were originally engineered for a particular system. I guess thats just me not getting it again.
Turbo Supra
12-12-06, 18:35
I don't see my self camping outside the gunstore for the release just to be the first to have it.I agree 100%. I am very anxious to get mine, but I am actually on a waiting list for the SIG556 SWAT, which won't be out until early '07. Hopefully, any bugs will be ironed out by then.
K.L. Davis
12-12-06, 19:00
I imagine Sig's thoughts were that there are just a crap load of AR/M16 mags out there, and they are cheap... but for a company that is designing a rifle with the hopes of some military use, STANAG 4179 sets the M16 magazine well as the standard for all NATO rifles -- any mag or drum must fit in the M16 well and any rifle must accept those mags or drums.
For what its worth, I always liked the 550/551's. Personally, I could care less if these things take AR mags.............generally the biggest weakness in the AR system. I realize that the mag thing is important to many, but I just don't get re-engineering weapons to take magazines that are less reliable than the mags that were originally engineered for a particular system. I guess thats just me not getting it again.
With the amount of M16 magazines in MIL and non-MIL hands, I can't figure why any company wouldn't want to use them.
Anyway, what else is projected for SHOT?
K.L. Davis
12-14-06, 14:34
With the amount of M16 magazines in MIL and non-MIL hands, I can't figure why any company wouldn't want to use them.
Anyway, what else is projected for SHOT?
It is quiet huh? As you know, there will be Block II stuff -- .mil has some new handguards and stuff.
As far as whole new platforms go (or stuff we have not already seen), there is not a lot of news... a few new optics will be trotted out, and some new mounts, but some one has to have better dope... feel free to list below :)
It is quiet huh? As you know, there will be Block II stuff -- .mil has some new handguards and stuff.
As far as whole new platforms go (or stuff we have not already seen), there is not a lot of news... a few new optics will be trotted out, and some new mounts, but some one has to have better dope... feel free to list below :)
I think that all the SOPMOD stuff is cool and all, but I'm not really looking forward to any AR equipment, as what I have suits me fine.
What really interests me is the abundance of .45 ACP products that will hopefully be there. I think that the .45 products will "steal the show" so to speak.
AAC will have a "dry" .45 can. This is what I'm most excited about. I don't know, but I hope that Surefire will have a .45 can there too.
This leaves me looking for all the new .45 JCP pistols coming out. I know that some will have threaded barrels, and some will not. I'm only interested in the threaded variety.
PS...Also looking to see if Serbu has his semi-auto .50 in production!
Really? Weapon A uses magazines also used in Weapon B, so Weapon A is just another Weapon B, huh? Ummm, sure. :rolleyes:
Feel free to explain how in this case, it is worse. Every weapon has it's good points and bad points.
I would be happy to, if I ever made such a claim. Make sure you sharpen your reading skills before jumping to conclusions. I never said the SIG platform was "better" than the AR platform. I just said "I want one". Duh.
Cool. Leave the discussion and simply don't buy one. Done. Does a weapon have to be "better" than another to make you buy it? That is odd logic. Gee, I better replace all my ARs with M14s. I hear those are "better". My current weekend toy is a "better" car than a 1965 427 AC Cobra, but I still want one badly...
Let's keep the thread friendly instead of arguing over weapons you aren't going to own anyway. That's what Counterstrike fans do, right?
If it's not better than what you have, but it's not just about collecting, then why do you want one?
If it's not better than what you have, but it's not just about collecting, then why do you want one?
Why do you care?
I'm not going to put words in Supra's mouth, but maybe familiar ergos? Whatever the reason, it's his reason. I think that he knows enough to make an educated decision.
I would suggest starting a new thread about how much worse the weapon is than the AR. While I do agree with you wholeheartedly, the title of the thread is "SHOT Show teasers" not "Why Rob doesn't think that the Sig is very good".
(I'm just bustin your balls a little, so don't get too butt-hurt!):D :D
Turbo Supra
12-14-06, 17:05
If it's not better than what you have, but it's not just about collecting, then why do you want one?If you are really curious about my reasons for wanting one, simply use your advanced reading skills and go back several posts.
Always feels good to know someone cares about me so much...
Bloodbathdisplay
12-14-06, 17:22
Wow this is the first discussion on this forum I've seen turn to shit. First it started out as a Shot Show Teaser Thread in which the author I am sure wanted to know about more things than the 556 much less watch everyone argue about owning or not owning one and turning the thread to crap. Congratulations guys.
Turbo Supra
12-14-06, 17:45
Wow this is the first discussion on this forum I've seen turn to shit. First it started out as a Shot Show TeaserFeel free to contribute. Got any SHOT teaser pics? What do you want to see there?
Bloodbathdisplay
12-14-06, 18:34
Feel free to contribute. Got any SHOT teaser pics? What do you want to see there?
Are you on a roll or what supra? No, I don't have any pics...I'm not high enough up on any companies cheerleading team to get super secret classified photos. I wasn't saying that I didn't like hearing about the 556, even if the thread only included it and nothing else, the thread has still turned to an arguing match mainly between you and rob s. I would just hate to see this forum end up like other ones thats all. Take care.
Turbo Supra
12-14-06, 18:56
I wasn't being sarcastic, bro. I was really being serious. I agree with your observation. I was hoping maybe you had some input that would sway the thread in the right direction.
I simply posted what I am most excited to see at SHOT. Others jumped on the 556 bashfest.
Bloodbathdisplay
12-14-06, 19:05
I see, I think we all have kind of jumped the gun (no pun intended) and started bickering like a bunch of school girls. Sorry man, if I find any pics or cool stuff coming out I'll let you know. I understand that you were looking forward to seeing the 556 and then it went south from there, hopefully this thread can be revived.
Turbo Supra
12-14-06, 19:10
I agree 100%. Apart from the 556, the SCAR is obviously interesting to me. I also would like to see any additional changes made to the HK417. Doubt it will ever make it to the civi world, but one can hope.
Pistol-wise, I want to get my hands on an FNP45. :)
Bloodbathdisplay
12-14-06, 19:21
The scar looks good up until the stock, what is the deal there? I haven't followed the design of this weapon much so I am a bit ignorant when SCAR discussion time comes around. As for the HK I can't remember any time of recent where they released a rifle to the public that was worth owning.
It is quiet huh? As you know, there will be Block II stuff -- .mil has some new handguards and stuff.
As far as whole new platforms go (or stuff we have not already seen), there is not a lot of news... a few new optics will be trotted out, and some new mounts, but some one has to have better dope... feel free to list below :)
There is something coming out that should put a smile on your face.
K.L. Davis
12-14-06, 22:34
There is something coming out that should put a smile on your face.
You mean like the smile you get when some guys see how far 300 yards really is?
I had a guy send me pictures of his 500 yard group once... but he shot it at a range that I knew pretty well and the last berm is 300 -- in his defense, he really thought it was 500 yards :rolleyes:
It should be a good smile, at least it is for me. Its not a painful "look at the jackass" smile, though there may be a host of those as well.... :D
K.L. Davis
12-15-06, 14:36
It should be a good smile, at least it is for me. Its not a painful "look at the jackass" smile, though there may be a host of those as well.... :D
Big tease... okay, so let's see... you know who won the contract for the new SOPMOD handguards, but did you know that KAC lost the contract for the M16A4 handguards?
:p
baffle Stack
12-15-06, 15:33
edit.
Man they really butchered the 550:(
eta: and where the heck are the sights? I like to hit my target.
"Vee are Austrian, vee don't need any sights....." (Said is a Dr. Strangelove'ish accent)
What's the status of the HK45?
baffle Stack
12-15-06, 22:45
Big tease... okay, so let's see... you know who won the contract for the new SOPMOD handguards, but did you know that KAC lost the contract for the M16A4 handguards?
:p
Who has the contract now?
K.L. Davis
12-16-06, 11:19
Who has the contract now?
The design rests with the TDP, I do not know if they will make it in house or farm it out...
Anyway, about SHOT show teasers, I guess handguards are a little boring anymore. I expect to see two new monolithic uppers at SHOT, but then they are sort of played too... at least bringing out another one would not be ground breaking, earth shaking, alert the media news.
There will be some other johnny-come-latelies with piston uppers too...
Lothar Walther was agressively courting companies to use their barrels, so you can expect to see a few recognized names showcasing a new barrel, which is most likely made for them by LW.
KL, are the CT boys going to show their mono ya think?
Me? I'm just a dumb grunt cop, I don't know nuthin. However, I did get a formal complaint filed against me on Christmas....:D
weak, on xmas no doubt?
Me? I'm just a dumb grunt cop, I don't know nuthin. However, I did get a formal complaint filed against me on Christmas....:D
What? and no artsy pics of the complainer upside down or all katywhumpass?
What? and no artsy pics of the complainer upside down or all katywhumpass?
I assume it's pretty tough to get them to hold still on the white background with a face full of pepper spray. :confused:
I would love to see what LaRue will have there. There were a few guys throwing around "Quad S" on another forum - I wonder if that is LaRue's venture into the monlithic upper world? I'm definitely not in the know but if LaRue is building it, it will be good.
I will like to hear about the following:
HK 45s, 416, 417
S&W M&P45
Piston uppers in general
Suppressors
Spooky
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K.L. Davis
12-31-06, 00:07
Frank... I know you well enough to know that POF will not fail to surprise and please those that visit your booth -- and I am sure you will have at least one or two of those "and oh, look at this" things tucked away somewhere :D
Spooky, I know that when LT was showing the concept for the monolitic upper, it was dubbed the "Monolith" -- I can not see why the name would change, that is a cool name... unless LMT thinks it was too close to what they are doing?
Anyway, I think there is a Quad-S that is some sort of computer motherboard thing (a lot of folks on these boards are IT weenies you know :p ) -- as far as potential military/le stuff goes, I would think that SSSS would not be such a great choice ;)
-- as far as potential military/le stuff goes, I would think that SSSS would not be such a great choice ;)
What if they broke it in half and put one on each shoulder? :eek:
As far as complaints, I've beaten people with an AR15 in the middle of an intersection in front of God and country while using the queens english, and never gotten a beef. On Christmas, one guy sees me for 3 seconds, doesn't talk to me or get touched by me, and feels a need to complain. I'm guessing I look "too military" or "like a skinhead", which are some of my favorite cries to the rat squad.
Back to the new toys, I'm hoping POF will be displaying their VIS piston upper. I'm also hoping that another company will come close to releasing their piston mod.
K.L. Davis
12-31-06, 01:58
What if they broke it in half and put one on each shoulder? :eek:
Nah... it is a security flag for those that are likely not friends of the U.S.A.
Back to the new toys, I'm hoping POF will be displaying their VIS piston upper. I'm also hoping that another company will come close to releasing their piston mod.
Hey... is that you looking through the window?
Just kiddin' :)
Nah... it is a security flag for those that are likely not friends of the U.S.A.
Hey... is that you looking through the window?
Just kiddin' :)
Soooo, where IS your window? :o
Now POF making a piston that will fit under the VIS would be nice to see.
SOME NEW ITEMS TO CHECK OUT AT THE 2007 SHOT SHOW,
PATRIOT ORDNANCE FACTORY: BOOTH# 9317.
MACHINING OUR LOWERS FROM BILLET HAS ALLOWED US BE TO CREATIVE AND
HELP TO IMPROVE UPON "AMERICA'S RIFLE", DESIGN FROM THE 1960'S.
OUR BILLET MACHINED LOWER ARE MIL-SPEC COMPATABILE BUT,
WE HAVE UPGRADED THE LOWER WITH OUR OUR OWN SPEC'S
POF-USA: INTERGRATED TRIGGER GUARD MACHINED INTO THE LOWERS.
POF-USA: "AMBI-BOLT RELEASE LEVER" (PATENT PENDING).
THESE NEW FEATURES WILL BE OFFERED IN OUR P-415 / P-416 (.223 CAL), AND OUR P-308 (.308 CAL.) GAS PISTON WEAPON SYSTEMS. :D
http://www.pof-usa.com/DSC02786.JPG
POF-USA: BILLET MACHINED UPPER RECEIVER ON OUR P-308 (.308 CAL.), GAS PISTON WEAPON SYSTEM. :)
BEST REGARDS,
PATRIOT ORDNANCE FACTORY (http://WWW.POF-USA.COM)
I'm not much for the 7.62 caliber AR's, but from what little I can see here, I might be changing my mind...
Spooky
With the amount of M16 magazines in MIL and non-MIL hands, I can't figure why any company wouldn't want to use them.
Anyway, what else is projected for SHOT?
Very similar thinking Bushmaster had with the design of their .308 based ARs. Lots of cheap, available FAL mags out there.........Cetainly was not enough of a selling point for Bushmaster to keep the line going.
What other good gear beside firearms are in the pipeline? I am actually more interested in the peripherals this year. I say that now, until I see the first gun.....
Very similar thinking Bushmaster had with the design of their .308 based ARs. Lots of cheap, available FAL mags out there.........Cetainly was not enough of a selling point for Bushmaster to keep the line going.
Bushmaster discontinued the line because the rifles (particularly the bolts) were failing, not because of the mags they used.
Alpha Sierra
12-31-06, 13:25
Bushmaster discontinued the line because the rifles (particularly the bolts) were failing, not because of the mags they used.
The two issues (bolts breaking and magazines used) are connected.
IIRC, the centerline feeding of FAL mags required removal of one of the bolt lugs and a reconfiguration of the bolt lug pattern. The load on the remaining bolt lugs turned out to be too much for them to handle.
K.L. Davis
12-31-06, 13:36
The two issues (bolts breaking and magazines used) are connected.
IIRC, the centerline feeding of FAL mags required removal of one of the bolt lugs and a reconfiguration of the bolt lug pattern. The load on the remaining bolt lugs turned out to be too much for them to handle.
Despite some people trying to tell them that it was a bad idea from the start :(
The two issues (bolts breaking and magazines used) are connected.
IIRC, the centerline feeding of FAL mags required removal of one of the bolt lugs and a reconfiguration of the bolt lug pattern. The load on the remaining bolt lugs turned out to be too much for them to handle.
Yes, but the original poster I quoted implied that it was the market, not the flawed design, that resulted in the rifle being discontinued.
Alpha Sierra
12-31-06, 14:44
Yes, but the original poster I quoted implied that it was the market, not the flawed design, that resulted in the rifle being discontinued.
Again, same-o same-o. Bad design = lots of failures = pissed off customers = bad word of mouth = market rejection.
RAM Engineer
12-31-06, 15:46
I'm looking forward to:
M&P45
FN FNP45
HK45
The new "combat oriented" TR21 from Trijicon that Grant was hinting at.
Also, anything new and "obtainable" from KAC, LMT, FN, Crimson Trace (M&P!), Aimpoint, Eotech, Larue, Schmidt & Bender, Black Hills, Hornady, HK, Vltor or Colt.
I could care less about:
Anything new from Sig, Taurus, Beretta, Realtree, Ruger, Blackhawk, Bushmaster, Italians who make cowboy guns, Kel-Tec, Kimber, Olympic, Para Ordnance, Wilson Combat
I am on the fence about any new stuff from:
Remington, Steyr, Armalite, Winchester, Browning, Benelli, beef jerky makers, Smith & Wesson Revolvers, Leupold.
I guess I'm a snob...
Despite some people trying to tell them that it was a bad idea from the start :(
Isn't RRA going with FAL mags, and if so, won't they be subject to the same problems?
K.L. Davis
12-31-06, 18:21
I'd like more info about how the 1020 is coming along.
Rumor around the campfire is that it is losing steam... maybe look for a monolithic upper, but expect it to have a conventional gas tube vice piston.
Isn't RRA going with FAL mags, and if so, won't they be subject to the same problems?
I honestly do not know... let me ask around this afternoon -- truth is, I don't rightly know if too many people care.
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL! :D
OUR P-308 (.308 CAL.), GAS PISTON WEAPON SYSTEM WILL ALL COME "STANDARD" WITH C.R.O.S. (CORROSION RESISTANT OPERATING SYSTEM). OUR CORROSION AND WEAR RESISTANT COATINGS ALLOW OUR WEAPON SYSTEMS TO OPERATE WITH AND WITHOUT LUBE. :)
BEST REGARDS,
FRANK
PATRIOT ORDNANCE FACTORY (http://WWW.POF-USA.COM)
http://www.pof-usa.com/DSC02839.JPG
SILICON NICKEL PLATED BILLET MACHINED UPPER RECEIVER & CHARGING HANDLE (INTERIOR ONLY).
Rumor around the campfire is that it is losing steam... maybe look for a monolithic upper, but expect it to have a conventional gas tube vice piston.
I honestly do not know... let me ask around this afternoon -- truth is, I don't rightly know if too many people care.
KL, I know someone that intends to purchase a RRA gun WHEN they are available, however they have been delayed, so I thought I'd ask.
On the main page, LAR-10 http://www.rockriverarms.com/
K.L. Davis
01-07-07, 17:47
JLM - check your IM
I could care less about:
Anything new from Sig, Taurus, Beretta, Realtree, Ruger, Blackhawk, Bushmaster, Italians who make cowboy guns, Kel-Tec, Kimber, Olympic, Para Ordnance, Wilson Combat.
From what I've heard, A LOT of people are going to be suprised at what Taurus starts to distribute.
From what I've heard, A LOT of people are going to be suprised at what Taurus starts to distribute.
I'm hoping for a lot of nice surprises this year. :)
JLM - check your IM
If it was about the RRA wreapon I missed it.
baffle Stack
01-08-07, 16:03
Hey NickB, post pics of the P-MAG
Nevermind. I see Grant started a tread about it in the tactical equipment section.
I'm hoping for a lot of nice surprises this year. :)
That could be the understatement of the year.... :p
From what I've heard, A LOT of people are going to be suprised at what Taurus starts to distribute.
That new pistol Taurus has looks interesting for sure.
C4
If it was about the RRA wreapon I missed it.
They are coming out with a 6.8 AR (shocker there).
C4
baffle Stack
01-08-07, 18:03
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=17&t=309746
Here's the P-MAG for those who are interested. I think it's cool but I have a weird magazine fetish.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=3118
olds442tyguy
01-08-07, 21:04
I wonder if Colt will be showing this? :eek:
(Look closely at the magazine.)
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c278/olds442tyguy/ColtMGI.jpg
From what I've heard, A LOT of people are going to be suprised at what Taurus starts to distribute.
I know Taurus has had the rights to produce non military caliber Swiss Arms SG550 rifles and non military caliber FAMAE carbines for a few years now. Maybe we'll get lucky. Then again, a company that has their own forging, metal injection molding, casting, and stamping facilites, who knows what they'll do. They seem to cut corners, but they have near unlimited potential.
K.L. Davis
01-08-07, 23:22
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=17&t=309746
Here's the P-MAG for those who are interested. I think it's cool but I have a weird magazine fetish.
Anyone know if the feed lips are reinforced?
They are coming out with a 6.8 AR (shocker there).
C4
Nah, was asking KL about the .308 RRA gun and the pratfalls of using FAL mags.
They are coming out with a 6.8 AR (shocker there).
C4
Yeah...that long slide FDE .45 does look interesting......now if a KKM 10mm conversion barrel works in it as well as it does in the G21 long slide....(which are few and far between and cost an arm and kidney)
Grant please grab one to show the KKM guys....:)
1-10-07
Come visit us @ Shot Show Booth # 9317. :)
Come by to see our many new Products we will introduce like our Two models of our P-308 (.308 cal.), gas piston weapon systems, using billet machined uppers and lowers w/ oversized integral machined trigger guards and Ambi-Bolt Release Lever (patent pending).
One P-308 using our standard flat top upper & one P-308 using our new
MRR Modular Railed Receiver (patent pending).
Other new items such as our P-415 Gen III & P-416 Gen III billet machined lower receiver w/ oversized integral trigger guard & Ambi-Bolt Release lever (patent pending), New muzzle devices for .308 & .223. All new product line of gas piston weapons that come standard with slim extended rail systems and heat sink barrel nuts on all models.
Patriot Ordnance Factroy (http://www.pof-usa.com)
http://www.pof-usa.com/DSC02832.JPG
Anyone know if the feed lips are reinforced?
I know the feedlips are changed from the ones I initially played around with, my understanding is that they were reinforced, but I'm unsure how. As you can see from the picture, this is an early one that didn't have the window inserts installed.
http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Magpul%20sub/IMG_9255%20Stick.jpg
Quite a few things that I am looking foward to seeing in person, with the SCAR being pretty high on the list.
Quite a few things that I am looking foward to seeing in person, with the SCAR being pretty high on the list.
There is something else you may find as likeable.... I'm guessing you will start hearing about it tonight, or thursday at the very latest.
There is something else you may find as likeable.... I'm guessing you will start hearing about it tonight, or thursday at the very latest.
Any hints for those of us NOT going? :(
NeilsonTactical
01-10-07, 17:28
I am interested in who took the contract from KAC for the M16A4 Hg's?
Any hints for those of us NOT going? :(
I figure we will start seeing info released tonight.
I figure we will start seeing info released tonight.
Hey Stick..please post a link to whatever the heck you have been talking about
I think I know what a coyote feels comin in to a rabbit call?....hehehehe
All quiet tonight.... I guess it will be thursday before we get word.
All quiet tonight.... I guess it will be thursday before we get word.
Dang it all Stick....it's 1130 here and the dog is sitting by the back door with his
legs crossed...holding on for dear life...
Told him he could go... AFTER.. Stick spilled the beans...then he could spill his...
Well hopefully tomorrow...not for the dog....I'll go let him out now...need to get some firewood in anyway...
Hey Stick- this is getting a little ridiculous. Why don't YOU just come out and say it?
Hell, I could have started this crap two weeks ago saying I knew of some big new secret and said I wasn't going to say anything first- you know, to seem cool and all.
You know I mean no offense- You know I already think you're pretty cool. It's just my way of saying cut the doodoo and spill the beans!! :D
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