View Full Version : So..I'm going to a class....
Friend and I are taking a Pat Rogers class in like 6 weeks. So..I need to get ready. I think I'm good on two reliable rifles and a handgun, but it's the other stuff I don't have. I'd like some good recommendations on belt, mag holders, bags, etc. I'm looking to get good stuff..things I can continue to use for more classes. I don't mind spending a bit more when it's worth it so I don't end up cycling equipment more than I have to.
Suggestions? Assume I have: Me, Rifle, Handgun, Mags for all that... That's it. I also have a Wilderness belt, if that is usable.
Derek_Connor
02-18-09, 20:33
Friend and I are taking a Pat Rogers class in like 6 weeks. So..I need to get ready. I think I'm good on two reliable rifles and a handgun, but it's the other stuff I don't have. I'd like some good recommendations on belt, mag holders, bags, etc. I'm looking to get good stuff..things I can continue to use for more classes. I don't mind spending a bit more when it's worth it so I don't end up cycling equipment more than I have to.
Suggestions? Assume I have: Me, Rifle, Handgun, Mags for all that... That's it. I also have a Wilderness belt, if that is usable.
Whats your background, if any? Civi/LEO/Military?
If you are LEO/Military, it would be advisable to use what you would deploy with to train with.
If you are a civilain, do not go overboard. Wilderness belt is just fine, go out online or at any of the shops and get decent kydex mag pouches for your AR15 Magazines, and pistols. If you already do not have a holster for your secondary, get one as well.
A dump pouch is helpful, but not necesary. You can find a dump mouch from CSM Gear, Tactical Tailor, ATS, any of the big namers.
The key with one of your first classes is to learn, and not to sit there fighting with your firearms or your kit. So keep it simple, try to be realistic. What would you ever carry on you if you had to respond with one of these firearms, etc...12 mags on a plate carrier, or possibly 1 magazine in the gun and 1 magazine in your pocket?
I try to run classes as realistic as possible, unless it is a class where I specifically know there will be high round count evolutions. I always try to train from concealment, I always try to train with the weapons I would be carrying in normal life as a civilain..
Whats your background, if any? Civi/LEO/Military?
IT Geek. But I'm a really good IT geek. :) And in decent shape.
If you are a civilain, do not go overboard. Wilderness belt is just fine, go out online or at any of the shops and get decent kydex mag pouches for your AR15 Magazines, and pistols. If you already do not have a holster for your secondary, get one as well.
My concern there is space. I'm not a big guy. 5'7, 145lbs. 32" waist. For the class we need 4 mags on us plus, I think, 2 handgun mags. I have Blackhawk holders for my handgun mags (use them in IPSC Production class). I was just concerned about 4 PMags on my belt along with everything else. What are the thoughts on the Eagle/SKD chest rig for this? I just read rob_s' "training load" article. I like that rig because it appears to be simple and exactly what I need. I don't want to carry a lot..I like to travel light.
The key with one of your first classes is to learn, and not to sit there fighting with your firearms or your kit. So keep it simple, try to be realistic. What would you ever carry on you if you had to respond with one of these firearms, etc...12 mags on a plate carrier, or possibly 1 magazine in the gun and 1 magazine in your pocket?
Exactly. That's exactly what I'm going for. I don't want anything complex..nothing I end up fooling with. I realize I may change all this after my first class but I want to go in with at least some idea. The idea of the Eagle/SKD is that it holds 4 AR mags and 2 pistol mags. That's what I need without anything extra. Blackhawk holster for my HK on one side of my belt and maybe a dump bag on the other.
The idea of the Eagle/SKD is that it holds 4 AR mags and 2 pistol mags. That's what I need without anything extra. Blackhawk holster for my HK on one side of my belt and maybe a dump bag on the other.
I did Pat's class last year in just this setup. Eagle SKD rig with 4 AR mags and 4 Glock mags. 6004 on belt along with dump pouch. Worked out just fine, ran the same rig in an LAV AK class also. Changing up a little this year but not much.
Failure2Stop
02-19-09, 01:50
If I were a civilian wihtout the need to wear 80 lbs of protective crap and ancilliary equipment and load-out, I would follow Rob_S's recommendations very closely.
Derek_Connor
02-19-09, 07:54
IT Geek. But I'm a really good IT geek. :) And in decent shape.
My concern there is space. I'm not a big guy. 5'7, 145lbs. 32" waist. For the class we need 4 mags on us plus, I think, 2 handgun mags. I have Blackhawk holders for my handgun mags (use them in IPSC Production class). I was just concerned about 4 PMags on my belt along with everything else. What are the thoughts on the Eagle/SKD chest rig for this? I just read rob_s' "training load" article. I like that rig because it appears to be simple and exactly what I need. I don't want to carry a lot..I like to travel light.
Exactly. That's exactly what I'm going for. I don't want anything complex..nothing I end up fooling with. I realize I may change all this after my first class but I want to go in with at least some idea. The idea of the Eagle/SKD is that it holds 4 AR mags and 2 pistol mags. That's what I need without anything extra. Blackhawk holster for my HK on one side of my belt and maybe a dump bag on the other.
The eagle/skd is good stuff, no doubt. To play devil's advocate though, you dont necessarily have to run Pat's class with 4 magazines in pouches.
With as expensive as ammo is these days, the market for magazines, I might be inclined to take the money spent on a SKD rig and put it towards something else.
I've seen others sucessfully complete carbine classes with one kydex pouch for pistol/ar15, and everything else in pockets because they wanted to first test how they liked their gear setup, instead of the other way around.
Kydex pouches can be somewhat pricey, but if you know where to shop you should be good.
All devil's advocate though, if you have no worries throwing down on the SKD grab it.
When I need simple rig for a class with high round count evolutions, I use something similar like the SKD rig:
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1679/img1032largelh8.jpg
It holds 4 AR15 magazines, as many 1911 magazines as I need, and a small pouch to put an extra BCG and oil. It doesn't interfere w/the drawing of the secondary, it secures down tight, and with those padded straps I can wear it all day long without discomfort.
So if you decide to grab a chest rig, make sure you load it out so its comfortable, run around with it so you know how it reacts when you move, and practice your reloads from both your primary/secondary to see if you like how the manual of arms is.
If I were a civilian wihtout the need to wear 80 lbs of protective crap and ancilliary equipment and load-out, I would follow Rob_S's recommendations very closely.
Load Carriage for Training Classes (http://tacticalyellowvisor.net/8343/56227.html)
What I'm using these days boils down to:
Eagle M4FB Chest Rig (http://eagleindustries.com/product.php?productid=118&cat=71&page=1)
Ready Tactical (http://www.skdtac.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=411) Pistol (http://www.skdtac.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1623) and Carbine (http://www.skdtac.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=710) magazine pouches (one of each) on belt
Comp-Tac Kydex belt holster (http://www.comp-tac.com/product_info.php?products_id=66)
CSM Gear Dump Pouch (http://www.csmgear.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=droppch&cat=10&page=1&search=&since=&status=)
Wilderness Instructor Belt (http://store.thewilderness.com/product_info.php?cPath=43&products_id=1186)
Derek makes a few good points as well. Specifically, un-**** your gear before you get to class, and make sure that your gear is appropriate to your role but at the same time doesn't hold things up.
From my link above
First and foremost, the gear must work for you, in your intended role, and not encumber other items of necessity. What the hell does that mean? It means that you need to select your gear as a system, not as individual parts and pieces that may conflict with one another, and that the items in this system will have a priority list. For example, civilians (both LE and non) will most often have a primary focus on a handgun because that's what they are most likely to have on their person in an emergency. Whether attached to a duty belt, attached to a pants belt in plain sight, or attached to a pants belt and concealed, the handgun is the primary weapon for the vast majority of civilians. As such, it's the gun you're most likely to have on your person when a need for a firearm arises. At best it is likely to be the tool you use to "fight your way to your carbine". So, does it make sense to choose a load carriage system that doesn't work with your handgun in it's normal mode of carry? If you're a police officer that carries a rifle and load carriage system in the trunk, does it make sense to select a vest that covers your holstered duty weapon when you put it on? It is critical to make gear selections that complement one another.
I've been to 4 of Pat's classes and used several different chest rigs including the SKD rig.
It is the number one rig I recommend to anybody who's going to any carbine class.
The war belt rig will work but Pat does specific drills where you draw from every available mag pouch.
As for the "train as you fight" mantra, you're as likely to throw on a chest rig as you are a war belt or Active Shooter bag so you can pick any of the above.
Friend and I are taking a Pat Rogers class in like 6 weeks. So..I need to get ready. I think I'm good on two reliable rifles and a handgun, but it's the other stuff I don't have. I'd like some good recommendations on belt, mag holders, bags, etc. I'm looking to get good stuff..things I can continue to use for more classes. I don't mind spending a bit more when it's worth it so I don't end up cycling equipment more than I have to.
Suggestions? Assume I have: Me, Rifle, Handgun, Mags for all that... That's it. I also have a Wilderness belt, if that is usable.
My recommendation: don't spend a lot of time and money on gear from the get-go. Get a minimum amount of gear to carry what you'll need on the firing line for the class. While you're at the class, look at other people's gear, talk to them about it and get a feel for what you may like and how it works. Otherwise, you're likely to end up like 90% of the rest of us who have a footlocker full of stuff we never use anymore or end up selling it on eBay at a loss.
I like Rob's suggested loadout with the exception that I'd go with Eagle nylon pouches on a duty-type belt instead of the Kydex pouches and a Wilderness belt. That's just personal preference, though. But, you said you already have a Wilderness belt so, you might want to stick with that for right now.
Echoing RWK: If there is gear you are required to have for the class, buy it and try to get decent stuff. Plenty of great detailed feedback is available here at M4C. For gear that you think would be cool to have, wait until after the class to assess whether you'll need it and if so, what brand, features, etc. are most suitable to your requirements.
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