View Full Version : Steel targets.
I am finally getting around to starting to put together my steel target setup for training, so that I wont have to borrow from a friend anymore. I've been looking at Salute, MGM, etc. Anyone have any other/good recommendations on who to go with? They must be made from AR500 steel.
Someone asked this quesiton on G&R's forum, with Grant highly recommending the Salute targets.
I actually just placed my order with them today. I'd looked at Salute and MGM as well. I liked what I saw with Salute and after the feedback that I've read on their targets I went with them. It probably won't help you much, but I'll update this thread as soon as I get back from the range with it.
John Chapman
06-20-06, 23:22
We use MGM. Good workmanship, great customer service. They have AR500 targets in stock usually.
Something I've been thinking of lately as well. Thanks for the names. Here are some links for others;
Salute Products (http://www.saluteproducts.com/cascades/)
Mike Gibson Manufacturing (http://www.mgmtargets.com/)
The new MGM website looks good. I purchased one of their Colt speed plate auto poppers about three years ago. A very good training aid for public ranges that rarely go cold.
I am looking forward to trying out the Salute targets. While the auto popper bases are nowhere near as stable as the MGM sniper base, they appear to be more portable and quicker to disassemble. I do wonder how secure the pin is, though. The static target setup seems pretty nice. Hope the steel (and the shooter :D) holds up to rifle NSRs at pistol distances.
I went with MGM. They didn't stock what I wanted and they were more than willing to make it for me. The other good thing about them is that most of their prices includes shipping.
I recently had a chance to try out the Salute target at a Rob Haught
shotgun class. We shot everything from bird shot to slugs at a very
close range. The targets took the punishment with no ill effects.
I'd say Salute targets are good to go.
Mark LaRue
12-03-06, 17:06
I am finally getting around to starting to put together my steel target setup for training, so that I wont have to borrow from a friend anymore. I've been looking at Salute, MGM, etc. Anyone have any other/good recommendations on who to go with? They must be made from AR500 steel.
Shucks, it's deja vu. :-)
Started this shop in 1980, we entered the tactical business back in the early '90s making our LaRue Auto-resetting Sniper Targets ... they helped put us on the map ... but our's are more well-known with the long-gun folks. ;-)
FYI, like all things electro-mechanical, they need an occasional going-over. If you know of any of our targets sitting in-op in a corner somewhere...then police them up and send them back to us and we'll service them and get them back out on the range...most of the time for no-charge. The occasional shot-to-hell by a mini-gun unit requires a few purchased parts, but all in all, the cost is nil to keep them running forever.
You can see 'em on our website or on the GSA-Advantage store - (search LaRue).
M. LaRue
I've bought from http://www.themetalman.com/targetindex.html and have been very happy with my purchase.
I've also used targets from http://www.gttargets.com The owner is a great guy an supports a lot of competitive shooting.
Joe Mamma
Rob Haught
12-19-06, 18:10
Ive used MGM, LaRue, PortaTarget and Salute products over the years and have been happy with all of them. The Salute targets are my current take to class brand due to the portability and versatility of the designs. Also one of the principals in the company is a great guy, active duty Marine who puts his butt on the line to support his troops even when its not popular with the brass, so Im happy to support his products.
Hey Rob, its good to see you here.
I have a Salute target in the back of my rig for personal training. It is both a high quality product for the price, and very portable.
My agency has been using LaRue targets for many years. They aren't cheap, but they have held up exceptionally well and are used in alot of sniper schools that we host. They are very convenient for long range field exercises where having a self reseting target is much better than trudging across several 100 yards of dense brush to tape or reset targets.
Rob Haught
12-20-06, 23:35
Nyeti;
I have six of the LaRues that have been in outdoor use year round for the last several years in the mountains of WV. They have been used at several of the Allegheny Sniper Challenge events and other that the occaisional small maintenence that any mechanical thing sometimes needs they are still chugging along. Mark will handle anything that requires shop time gladly and is a great guy to deal with. My Porta Targets are still doing fine after a zillion rounds and the MGMs are basically sniper type lolipoppers and flash targets and I have no complaints. After being introduced to Salute Targets on the Left Coast by Freddie I bought half a dozen to T&E and they have been outstanding for both shotgun and carbine. If I ever get my dream piece of property I can outfit one hell of a range!
Hope to see you at SHOT
Rob
I would go with LaRue if I weren’t at the mercy of the taxpayers. As I am, I do without or have it made locally. Another name I haven’t seen mentioned is Action Target.
Rob,
Thanks for the kind comments about me and Salute Product targets.
All of the target companies mentioned thus far are excellent sources and run by fine people. LaRue targets are exceptional for sniper work as well as other forms of rifle training.
Depending upon what is the intended use this would be my recommendation:
For all center fire rifle, pistol and shotgun I recommend AR500 3/8" or thicker steel. This will allow for better durability, thus longer life of your target. For light cowboy loads etc. 1/4" AR500 will work fine, but that is a niche use.
For carbine work inside of 50 yards the Salute Products DoD MilSpec base with a 2/3 IPSC or 10-8 target is ideal. Both Porta and MGM make similar target systems with the target slanting towards the shooter to deflect splatter. Salute has eliminated bolts and brackets thus minimizing potentially harmful splatter. This target is also excellent for shotgun and handgun training as well. Salute will be adding an FBI/DEA Q shaped target to the line shortly. Of course custom shapes can also be produced. You can watch the video clip of a 10-8 Consulting Instructor shooting NSRs with a Kimber Warrior and Noveske N-4, as well as John Noveske shooting full auto on a DoD MilSpec target system if you to go to FAQ on www.saluteproducts.com and then click on the "Training Day" video in the upper right corner box.
For shotgun work, the Salute Products 2/3 Pepper Popper (aka Mini-Popper) with the self-resetting reactive large base is excellent with both target loads and 00B at 10 yards and slug at 50yards or more. Again Salute has eliminated the bolts as they have found that they tend to loosen, as well as get damaged during extensive training. This target works great with rifles at intermediate distances of 50 -300 yards and with handguns at 10 yards. The video clip mentioned previously shows a 10-8 Consulting Instructor shooting accelerate pairs on the Mini-Popper with a Noveske 7.62 AR10 at 15 yards. Salute and MGM both make a smaller versions that work well with rifles at intermediate distances and handguns at 10 yards as well. Salute of course has numerous other shapes with the Large Practical Plinger being one that works well and is proving popular with LE designated marksmen even out to 600 yards for head shots. For big game hunters Salute is now making North American and African big game like Elk, Brown Bear, Bison, Cape Buffalo, and Lions.
As mentioned the target systems above work well with handguns, another option is Salutes self-resetting reactive plate rack system. This target system can be used with rifles as well. The 8" round tall plate works best on the plate rack.
Salute recently started building .50 BMG target systems and are available for order although they haven't been posted on the website yet. Their website will be updated soon with both pictures and more video clips of the new products mentioned, but they are available for order if you call them.
S/F
Whats the 10-8 target look like? I couldnt find it on the Salute site.
Whats the 10-8 target look like? I couldnt find it on the Salute site.
I'm guessing you mean this one
http://www.eagtactical.com/prd_detail.asp?ProdID=3
Rob S.,
You are correct. The Salute Products EAG/10-8 Steel Target is the same size and shape as the camo portion of the EAG/10-8 paper target. After a few rounds are shot on to the steel target it actually mimics the grayish Crye camo pattern on the paper target. That was not by our design, but by how well designed Crye's pattern blends with surroundings.
Unfortunately it is not up on the Salute website yet, but if you call or email sales@saluteproducts.com you can order it. It is the same price as the 2/3 IPSC $129.95.
Once I figure out how to insert pictures I'll post some of the new targets. Am better with butcher paper and large crayons, but have a Power Point Ranger Tab laying around my house some where.
S/F
I am familiar with the 10-8/EAG paper targets. I was referring to the 10-8/EAG steel target.
Here is a picture of the EAG/10-8 Steel Target in a DoD MilSpec base with Tim Lau and Ben Lenett from 10-8 Consulting. To their left is the Large Practical Plinger in a DoD MilSpec base.
S/F
Here is the .50 BMG Target System with a custom cut Bison target.
Here is an Elk Target on a self resetting Large Reactive Base. With the pin properly installed it won't slide out of the target system and now with the new large reactive system it is secured in place and doesn't need to be removed.
Boy, with both Rob and FJB posting here, stand by for some good educational stuff.
FJB,
You have a PM on some steel target purchases.:D
I have a MGM flag target. A standing full size with the 8" circle in the middle that show a "flag" when you hit it.
I have shot the piss out of it with 556. Close to a 1000 rds on it 556. If you stay about 75 yrds out it hardly leaves a mark.
Pistol does not effect the steel at all. 9mm will push out the flag though. 45 is a blast. I really like to shoot it 75yrds with my g19. At first it seem impossible to hit the 8" center because you can hardly even see it that far. But most are able to do it after a few tries.
Have shot with a friend who is a gun mag writer on one of the same targets with 308 from 200 to 500yrds. 308 hp does not dimple the steel at all from those distances.
Salute Targets did a test about 4 months ago comparing AR500, AR600, and MilSpec Armor Plate. The MilSpec Armor plate was rated at AR500. AR stands for Abrasion Resistence and 500 is according to the Brinell Hardness scale. There are different steel hardness scales Brinell being the one that is the industry standard for firearm use. AR500 Brinell is essentially the equivilent of Rockwell C51 for those more familiar with that scale. You can learn more about this at https://www.saluteproducts.com/faq.php
Anyway, while the test wasn't purely scientific is was conducted by two engineers one a Professionally licensed Mechanical Engineer. The test consisted of comparing AR500, AR600, and MilSpec Armor to determine the cost benefit analysis of using a particular type of steel for a customer with a larger military customer base using M855 Green Tip ammo on their facility. The customer wanted to incorporate steel targets into the training facility but experience using other manufacturer designed target systems made them very apprehensive.
So using the Salute DoD MilSpec base as the platform all three types of steel were tested. Again part of the testing purpose was cost benefit. AR600 is approximately twice the price of AR500 and MilSpec Armor is approximately 80% more in cost. What was discovered was that MilSpec actually deformed slight more than regular AR500 steel. The reasoning was determined that MilSpec is a blend of steel and alloys to address weight and larger temperature variations that milspec armor will encounter. Whereas standard high carbon AR500 steel doesn't have to be as resilient at minus 50 degrees F as there are very few shooters will target practice/train at the temperature so the steel being more brittel and subject to cracking from being shot is minimal.
What was also discovered is that AR600 was not that better at preventing deformation than standard AR500 either. Definitely not worth the targets costing twice as much. What was decided though was that proper target base construction and a proper forward canting angle actually contributed most to minimized target deformation. The finding resulted in a slight adjustment to Salute Products DoD MilSpec base to take advantage of the finding. The older designed targets are perfectly fine, but the new angled vertical uprights will help increase the service life of the AR500 steel targets.
Attached are photos of various 5.56 rounds fired from 24" and 28" barrelled AR varmint rifles. Also are pictures of 30-06 API Black Tip rounds fired from a Springfield 03. All shots were done at 7 yards from the target system. This is not recommended for safety reasons, although this was done safely with no resulting injury to the shooter. 7 yards was chosen to approximate the highest muzzle velocity possible at the minimum safetest distance.
S/F
FJB, I have been telling people that Salute makes some great stuff :cool: . Interesting test results.
Hawkeye,
Thanks. I forgot to mention that the pictures above were shots with the targets using the former angle. Still a very good system and good angle. The newer system will extend usage life of the steel target, bad for Salute (delayed repeat sales) but good for the customer.
Attached are photos of M855, M193, and 30-06API at the new angle. The deformation was significantly reduced. Note that most the splatter is deflected down towards the ground and away from the shooter.
S/F
That is one thing that I really like about the Salute plate I have. With the angle its at, I am very comfortable (with proper safety precautions) shooting it at fairly close range. It makes a nice straight line cut in the ground directly below the target. If you've changed the angle, then it can only be for the better I would guess. Of all the steel I have shot, I find Salute's to be the most versital. Call it a commercial if you want, but I dont see myself buying any other steel. I'd have a lot more, and plan to, but am only limited by my budget. :mad: :rolleyes:
I cant recommend Salute stuff enough.
GunLovinTexan
07-31-07, 19:35
I orderd a target from Salute and got it last friday would this be the new or old angle??
It will be the new angle.
S/F
Not long ago Salute Products updated their website to include a video clip from a 10-8 Consulting Carbine Class with students performing an LAPD Drill on Salute Products steel targets. Go to the Video link to view it and some of our others. www.saluteproducts.com
Also, we have posted some video clips of Salute Targets being shot on You Tube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iHvgJnVqTk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbPVH8ztVSw
S/F
My 10-8/EAG target and base just showed up today! Looks great and I really like the angle. It is much more drastic than other steel I have shot which will be nice for closer range practice. I'll try to post a report after I get to the range this week.
Pat_Rogers
08-03-07, 08:39
My experience with the Salute targets at bot mil and civ classes has been overwhelmingly positive.
We have conducted drills at a commercial school which built in house targets and destroyed them on several occasions.
The same drills on the Salute targets resulted in nothing more then uninterrupted training.
Good stuff...
Got a chance to test my 10-8/EAG Salute target this week. The size of the target is perfect as most of the steel I have shot previously is too large. The angle is great and I had no problems with backsplatter in 9mm or 5.56. As others have said, the entire unit breaks into 3 pieces really aiding in portability. Overall, I am very impressed and will be ordering more in the near future. I highly recommend Salute to anyone looking for steel. :D
Robb Jensen
10-01-07, 06:44
I am finally getting around to starting to put together my steel target setup for training, so that I wont have to borrow from a friend anymore. I've been looking at Salute, MGM, etc. Anyone have any other/good recommendations on who to go with? They must be made from AR500 steel.
A local VA company makes some AR500 targets. I've shot on some of his and they're very nice. He also gives away a ton of them at prize tables at USPSA and IDPA matches, IMHO his prices are very reasonable. The owners name is Nevitt Morton and he's also a competitor. His son Sonny is an amazing shooter and competitor as well (he's beat me a few times and he's like 14-16yrs old).
http://nevcotargets.com/catalog.html
My local rifle-carbine match is looking to get into some kind of resetting steel. We're looking at the MGM lollipopper (http://www.mgmtargets.com/products/rifle.shtml), the Salute 8" DOD (https://www.saluteproducts.com/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=131), and I've just started looking at the Nevco Robb linked to above (might see if he can cut the "head" off the popper).
Obviously, since we're a club we're interested in longevity as well as low replacement costs. These will be shot with a variety of calibers, although mostly 5.56 and 7.62x39 with a bit of 7.62 NATO thrown in. We will not be shooting them at ranges under 50 yards, and out to 200 yards. We typically use the steel at distance to keep from having to paste or reset. We're looking for something that reacts but doesn't require reset. The club already has standard pepper poppers for shooting with handgun at close range.
Any suggestions?
John Hearne
10-06-07, 20:03
I own an MGM Lolli-Popper and think its the best value in a steel target out there. It works with rifle, pistol, and shotgun, so its like getting six targets. Its the only steel I'd feel comfortable shooting with slugs since the plates give and won't throw lead back at you.
http://mgmtargets.com/images/products/lolli_popper.gif
The other MGM product I'd consider the SOF Flash target. It is more of a permanent target but it works very well for a long range target.
http://mgmtargets.com/images/products/flash_closed.gif
MGM may seem a little high on price, but their targets are excellent and the price includes shipping.
For work, I bought two of the Urban Rifle targets from Safe Direction (www.safedirection.com). The plate is angled and dumps all of the frag underneath the target itself. We've shot them with a bit of .223 and they've held up well.
http://safedirection.com/images/253_DSCN6780_UrbanRifleTarget_.jpg
I have a 12" rifle gong from Metaltargets.com. It has held up well although the frame itself doesn't like rifle rounds.
http://www.metaltargets.com/Images/NewTargets/GongTargets.jpg
Although I haven't shot it personally, they make a self-resetting target that looks like it would work well.
http://www.metaltargets.com/Images/NewTargets/AutoResetPoperDown.gif
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