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D.O.B.A
02-21-09, 22:30
Any thoughts on the Pow'R Ball Ammunition by Glaser? It is the Polymer-ball capped Hollowpoint ammunition, that according to the box will not get plugged up by heavy clothing, and can easily penetrate windshield glass or light sheet metal. I have run a few boxes of the 45 Auto+P 165gr through my Sig 220. It fed well and was very accurate, I just want to know if it is a good enough round for concealed carry?

DocGKR
02-21-09, 23:42
9 mm Corbon 100 gr +P PowerBall 1555 f/s from G17
BG: pen=10.9”, RD=0.60”, RW=93.9gr
4LD: pen=11.4”, RD=0.58”, RW=97.5gr
The mighty 4.7” of pen after the auto windshield was not comforting…

.40 S&W Corbon 135 gr Powerball from S&W 4006
BG: vel=1362 f/s, pen=11.6”, RD=0.65”, RW=131.4gr
4LD: vel=1359 f/s, pen=12.1”, RD=0.65”, RW=131.9gr
auto windshield: vel=1365 f/s, pen=7.9”, RD=0.61”, RW=103.6gr

.45 ACP Corbon 165 gr +P Powerball from 1911
BG: vel=1230 f/s, pen=12.1”, RD=0.70”, RW=158.8gr
4LD: vel=1267 f/s, pen=11.8”, RD=0.66”, RW=159.7gr
auto windshield: vel=1251 f/s, pen=5.5”, RD=0.73”, RW=143.5gr

The frequent core-jacket separations and rounded leading edges of the PB
loads are a concern, as is their poor terminal performance after intermediate
barrier penetration. We were frankly unimpressed with these loads. If you
have to use Corbon handgun loads, stick with their DPX loadings of the
superb Barnes XPB all copper bullets.

mpardun
02-22-09, 08:31
My understanding was that PowerBall was always intended for enhanced feeding in problematic weapons that would not feed Hollow Points reliable. I bought a box for a WWII GI spec 1911. While it worked as promised, I didn[t keep the weapon as I did not trust it 100%.

Since Hornady came out with the Critical Defense line this year at SHOT, the messaging for PowerBall on Corbon's www seems to have changed to poition PB directly against them.

My bottom Line: I have no use for PowerBall with a ton of better performing designs, including Corbon DPX mentioned above/Federal HST/Winchester Ranger bonded, etc...stick with Extreme Shock or Glaser Safety if you are looking for fragmenting rounds that feed reliably.

Matt Edwards
02-22-09, 09:29
Of interest ONLY. A good buddy of mine has shot more the one deer with .45 power ball. It seems to work ok for that application. I am 100% tracking that in no way does this privide any real solid and usefull data. I don't remmeber if those particualar deer were driving in a car or not.:D

DocGKR
02-24-09, 03:07
"...stick with Extreme Shock or Glaser Safety if you are looking for fragmenting rounds that feed reliably."

Uh...I'd say NEVER use Extreme Shock or Glaser Safety unless someone has a bizarre desire to use overly expensive, under performing ammunition for exterminating something like small furry rodents--I'd rather use PowerBall than Extreme Shock or Glaser...

nsnate02
02-24-09, 05:17
I've not seen an independent study, whether professional or box o' truth etc., show Pow-R-ball/Glaser/Extreme Shok work well compared to other modern hollowpoints. In fact most of the new stuff; HST, Ranger-T, etc perform very well in gel and clothing as advertised.
Here's a good comparison of .45 ACP. http://stevespages.com/page8f45acp.html

mpardun
02-24-09, 08:35
Uh...I'd say NEVER use Extreme Shock or Glaser Safety unless someone has a bizarre desire to use overly expensive, under performing ammunition for exterminating something like small furry rodents--I'd rather use PowerBall than Extreme Shock or Glaser...

Perhaps I should have expanded on my comment: When you live in a dense urban area and/or have small kids, I don't mind paying a little more. The point is you want to take a person out, not penetrate through sheet rock/wood walls. If a round were not to hit it's mark under stress, I'd rather not take the chance that my kids in the next room catch a stray (if a little forethought and a couple bucks could have prevented it). While firing directly at a person I have no doubt that a bonded hollow point would provide a better wound potential (esp thru clothes/barriers)...the Glaser is still throwing a 145g projectile at 1350fps/587ftlbs energy - if you hit your mark, that should slow him down long enough to follow up with another 9 rounds on target.

I load the first two rounds of ONLY my nightstand gun with Glaser Blue's, the rest of the rounds are Fed. Bonded HST's.

Sidewinder6
02-24-09, 11:09
Uh...I'd say NEVER use Extreme Shock or Glaser Safety unless someone has a bizarre desire to use overly expensive, under performing ammunition for exterminating something like small furry rodents--I'd rather use PowerBall than Extreme Shock or Glaser...

Correct me if I am wrong in stating this ammo was created to be used in Protective Detail operations when it was preferreble to have ammo that didnt travel from one person to another. I thought that was a feature so to speak.

Zhukov
02-24-09, 13:53
Perhaps I should have expanded on my comment: When you live in a dense urban area and/or have small kids, I don't mind paying a little more. The point is you want to take a person out, not penetrate through sheet rock/wood walls. If a round were not to hit it's mark under stress, I'd rather not take the chance that my kids in the next room catch a stray (if a little forethought and a couple bucks could have prevented it). While firing directly at a person I have no doubt that a bonded hollow point would provide a better wound potential (esp thru clothes/barriers)...the Glaser is still throwing a 145g projectile at 1350fps/587ftlbs energy - if you hit your mark, that should slow him down long enough to follow up with another 9 rounds on target.

I load the first two rounds of ONLY my nightstand gun with Glaser Blue's, the rest of the rounds are Fed. Bonded HST's.

Your understanding FAILS on many levels.

As far as being safe from overpenetration with the Glasers in concerned, you might want to read the following document and rethink that: http://www.brassfetcher.com/Brassfetcher_evaluates_9mm_Glaser_Safety_Slug.pdf

You are one of many who harbor the attitude that putting in highly frangible ammo would prevent shooting innocent bystanders. As the PDF I liked to will hopefully show - that's not always the case. But the bigger problem is that you would completely rely on your ammunition to:
1) Stop the bad guy, and
2) Not overpenetrate
Such a magical animal doesn't exist. Besides - would you REALLY pull the trigger if your kid's room is in the line of fire? I know I wouldn't.

I'm not even going to touch your point about the remarkable "kinetic energy' that the Glaser possesses. Please do yourself a favor and read DocGKR stickies if you haven't done so already, and look up real-world cases of innocent bystanders getting hit by stray rounds. While the latter is a real concern, I think you'll find that not stopping the bad guy due to inadequate ammunition choice is a much bigger threat.

ToddG
02-24-09, 13:59
The point is you want to take a person out, not penetrate through sheet rock/wood walls.

I'm sorry, which defense-orieted handgun round is it that you believe won't penetrate sheet rock?



if you hit your mark, that should slow him down long enough to follow up with another 9 rounds on target.

I load the first two rounds of ONLY my nightstand gun with Glaser Blue's, the rest of the rounds are Fed. Bonded HST's.

So in your "another 9 rounds" comment, the last eight would be Fed Bonded HSTs which you understand will zip right through most interior building materials. What is your logic in that? Either you think you should have bullets that bounce off of plaster, of you don't. Now all you've done is created a situation in which you have to change tactics depending on which round is in the chamber. (...assuming arguendo that your first two rounds of Glaser are actually wall-safe, which they aren't...)

CarlosDJackal
02-24-09, 16:50
IMHO, the only time I carry Pow'R Ball is when I have to travel into *spit* NJ. Every official documentation I have come across, makes it seem like it is illegal for anyone who is not LEO AND ON OFFICIAL DUTY to carry HP.

As it is against my Agency's Policy to carry non-HP ammo; this ammo is the closest I can find (outside the Federal EFMJ which I would never trust my life to) that seem to fit the bill.

Zhukov
02-24-09, 18:33
IMHO, the only time I carry Pow'R Ball is when I have to travel into *spit* NJ. Every official documentation I have come across, makes it seem like it is illegal for anyone who is not LEO AND ON OFFICIAL DUTY to carry HP.

Obviously. Everyone knows that the only time you need to carry uber-deadly dum-dum bullets are when you're an on-duty police officer. The rest of us have no need for this kind of lethal ammo.

RWK
02-25-09, 07:28
Perhaps I should have expanded on my comment: When you live in a dense urban area and/or have small kids, I don't mind paying a little more. The point is you want to take a person out, not penetrate through sheet rock/wood walls. If a round were not to hit it's mark under stress, I'd rather not take the chance that my kids in the next room catch a stray (if a little forethought and a couple bucks could have prevented it). While firing directly at a person I have no doubt that a bonded hollow point would provide a better wound potential (esp thru clothes/barriers)...the Glaser is still throwing a 145g projectile at 1350fps/587ftlbs energy - if you hit your mark, that should slow him down long enough to follow up with another 9 rounds on target.

I load the first two rounds of ONLY my nightstand gun with Glaser Blue's, the rest of the rounds are Fed. Bonded HST's.

A long time ago when I was younger and knew less than I do now, I shot a wounded dog through the eye socket with a .357 Magnum Glaser Safety Slug at a distance of only a few yards. The dog did not die. The following .357 Magnum Winchester Silvertip put it down with one round. Since then, I have followed case after case of the Glaser's failures to stop.

Glaser's do not work. I will state without apology that someone would be a fool to depend upon these rounds or any like them to defend their life or the life of another.

DocGKR
02-25-09, 11:26
"Glaser's do not work. I will state without apology that someone would be a fool to depend upon these rounds or any like them to defend their life or the life of another."

Well said, Sir!

ST911
02-25-09, 16:47
Perhaps I should have expanded on my comment: When you live in a dense urban area and/or have small kids, I don't mind paying a little more. The point is you want to take a person out, not penetrate through sheet rock/wood walls. If a round were not to hit it's mark under stress, I'd rather not take the chance that my kids in the next room catch a stray (if a little forethought and a couple bucks could have prevented it). While firing directly at a person I have no doubt that a bonded hollow point would provide a better wound potential (esp thru clothes/barriers)...the Glaser is still throwing a 145g projectile at 1350fps/587ftlbs energy - if you hit your mark, that should slow him down long enough to follow up with another 9 rounds on target. I load the first two rounds of ONLY my nightstand gun with Glaser Blue's, the rest of the rounds are Fed. Bonded HST's.

I've seen a bunch of rounds that have passed through various barriers in the home. Some passed through residents or unwelcome guests beforehand. I'm pretty underwhelmed by all the kerfuffle over theoretical penetration(s), especially when it originates from manufacturers.

Buy a premium JHP offering from a known-good manufacturer. Sleep well.

Iraq Ninja
02-25-09, 18:41
Correct me if I am wrong in stating this ammo was created to be used in Protective Detail operations when it was preferreble to have ammo that didnt travel from one person to another. I thought that was a feature so to speak.

Well, I don't think it is preferable at all, especially in regards to high risk PSD or close protection ops. I want ammo with penetration, and lots of it. Why? For shooting at bad guys in vehicles.

RWK
02-26-09, 17:24
Correct me if I am wrong in stating this ammo was created to be used in Protective Detail operations when it was preferreble to have ammo that didnt travel from one person to another. I thought that was a feature so to speak.

I somehow missed this earlier. Glaser's hit the market way back when "hydrostatic shock", "temporary cavities" and "kinetic energy transfer" were all the rage, circa mid 80's. The Glaser's had spectacular results against water-filled milk jugs and looked great on paper. The idea was that the fast-moving Glaser would hit its target and the payload of birdshot would "explode" inside the target and deliver all of its kinetic energy into the target for the Golden Fleece of ballistics -- the "one shot stop". The reality is that things obviously don't work that way.

It seems that most times a gimmick handgun cartridge comes around, the myth and lore gets attached to it that it was developed for "protection operations". Curious.

I've been in this field a long time and we always wanted handgun cartridges that would reliably penetrate auto glass, since we're always in and around vehicles, i.e. more penetration, not less. I remember bitching at Peter Pi at Corbon when they stopped using the Gold Dot projectiles and went with some highly-fragmenting projectile. He too was of the party line about high velocity, fragmenting projectiles being all the rage at the time.