AP ammo

[Puffy93]

anyone know where to get or how to make m995 style armor piercing 5.56 NATO ammunition?

[onesniper]

try these guys
http://www.hi-vel.com/Catalog__22/Armor_Piercing_Ammunition/armor_piercing_ammunition.html

[warpigM-4]

I could be wrong but I thought it was illegal to buy the M995 in the civilian world.would M855 62gr green tip not do the job? that seems to be around ,I got 400 rds last week.

[Puffy93]

I could be wrong but I thought it was illegal to buy the M995 in the civilian world.would M855 62gr green tip not do the job? that seems to be around ,I got 400 rds last week.

Technically no
The law states that to be consitered armor piercing it has to be .22 cal. or larger
5.56 NATO has a diameter of .2188

[geminidglocker]

Well,we can still order APIT .50cal loaded rounds from summit ammo.What say you to that???

[markm]

would M855 62gr green tip not do the job?


M855 offers LESS penetration on armor than regular old M193 in real world distances.

We shoot tons of both on our armor gongs, and M193 does noticeably more damage to the targets.

[warpigM-4]

Good to Know .learn something new everyday :D does the M193 have tungsten core??

[markm]

Good to Know .learn something new everyday :D does the M193 have tungsten core??

Nope. The M193 is copper jacketed lead. But its velocity is what gives it the meanness on my gongs.

Even .308 looks like a pistol splat compared to a 5.56 strike. All due to the high velocity.

[Puffy93]

Nope. The M193 is copper jacketed lead. But its velocity is what gives it the meanness on my gongs.

Even .308 looks like a pistol splat compared to a 5.56 strike. All due to the high velocity.

Are you saying the splat is bigger or it penetrates more?

The splat should be bigger because there is more lead in it because
There is no steel penatrator to take up space in the bullet

[bernieb90]

Technically no
The law states that to be consitered armor piercing it has to be .22 cal. or larger
5.56 NATO has a diameter of .2188

You may want to break out the micrometer for this one. 5.56 NATO uses the same bullet diameter as .223 Remington which are both .224.

[Puffy93]

You may want to break out the micrometer for this one. 5.56 NATO uses the same bullet diameter as .223 Remington which are both .224.

That's what their labeled but I think you convert 5.56mm to inches it's .2188

[Molon]

That's what their labeled but I think you convert 5.56mm to inches it's .2188

Stop while you're behind and listen to what bernieb90 is telling you. The "5.56mm" designation does not refer to the bullet; it refers to the land-to-land diameter of the bore of the rifle.

Also, it is illegal for a type 10 FFL to sell M995 to a civilian. The bullets used in M995 are not available as reloading components and it is illegal for someone who does not hold a type 10 FFL to manufacture bullets like those used in M995.

[markm]

Are you saying the splat is bigger or it penetrates more?

The splat should be bigger because there is more lead in it because
There is no steel penatrator to take up space in the bullet

I'm talking actual damage to the gong... not splattering. M193 pocks armor at 100 yards and in. M855 pocks the armor a little at the same distances, but not nearly as bad.

[Buck_Naked]

M855 offers LESS penetration on armor than regular old M193 in real world distances.

We shoot tons of both on our armor gongs, and M193 does noticeably more damage to the targets.

Not trying to detract from your post, but I think you should replace armor with steel plate just to avoid confusion...

As for armor, there are several different categories, and each may have different characteristics with regards to how it performs against different loads.

While 193 may perform better against steel than 855, it may be just the opposite for compressed polyethylene or ceramic armor...

[bernieb90]

That's what their labeled but I think you convert 5.56mm to inches it's .2188

Here you go

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j275/bernieb90/DSC_0362.jpg

The bullet is a Barnes 62gr TSX. FWIW barnes bullets seem to be right on nominal dimensions Hornady and Sierra are a bit oversized .0001-.0003, and Nosler bullets are undesized a bit.

Molon is 100% correct military metric designations are land diameters not bullet diameter. You will find that 7.62mm is not .308" either.

[Shihan]

I believe the law is that .22 cal is exempt and it has to be larger. I could be wrong but that is what a maker told me when I asked about his AP 5.7.

[markm]

Not trying to detract from your post, but I think you should replace armor with steel plate just to avoid confusion...

As for armor, there are several different categories, and each may have different characteristics with regards to how it performs against different loads.

While 193 may perform better against steel than 855, it may be just the opposite for compressed polyethylene or ceramic armor...

Good point. My "armor" is Armorgard 3/8 inch steel armor. I get similar results on AR400 (i think) plate... which is a milder steel than Armorgard.

Basically M855 does less damage on targets that ar harder than the bullet itself. It may very well penetrate deeper on stuff like wood, drywall, etc.

[bernieb90]

Not trying to detract from your post, but I think you should replace armor with steel plate just to avoid confusion...

As for armor, there are several different categories, and each may have different characteristics with regards to how it performs against different loads.

While 193 may perform better against steel than 855, it may be just the opposite for compressed polyethylene or ceramic armor...

There is in fact some truth to that.

Dr. Roberts states in his analysis of hard armor:

"Hard compressed polyethelene (Dyneema/Spectra) plates: These are very lightweight (3-4 lbs for a 10 x 12 plate) multi-hit capable level III plates that will stop the hot loaded, lightweight 5.56 mm ammo that defeats steel, along with the 7.62 mm threats stopped by steel. Unfortunately, they are often perforated by current military issue 5.56 mm 62 gr M855 FMJ “green-tip” ammunition. Most compressed polyethelene plates are best worn in conjunction with soft level IIIa armor underneath."

M855 is designed for enhanced Soviet body armor pentration at longer ranges than M193 or even 7.62 NATO ball. At short range the added velocity of M193 may allow it penetrate hard steel better, but I have not seen the difference in mild steel. As range increases the advantages of the heavier bullet with the penetrator increase.

M995 is hardly available to military personnel, and when it is issued it is on linked SAW belts. If someone in the civilian world is offering M995 for sale they are either lying, or somehow managed to steal some from the US government. Either way I would avoid that guy like the plague

[markm]

M855 is designed for enhanced Soviet body armor pentration at longer ranges than M193 or even 7.62 NATO ball.

Very true. People are often surprised to see that 7.62 does no more damage to steel plate than a pistol round.


At short range the added velocity of M193 may allow it penetrate hard steel better, but I have not seen the difference in mild steel. As range increases the advantages of the heavier bullet with the penetrator increase.


Guys were nagging me to test the M855 and M193 at longer ranges to find out if the M855 would do better. I have no reason to doubt that it would do better as M193 loses velocity pretty quick.... but I never to a chance to try it out.

[SGT D USMC]

Volicity is a big part of it. I have penitrated steel with a 4,000fps 220 swift with a lead nosed 50 gr bullit that my 308 would only splatter.