Help a Newcomer out?

[fruitjacket]

Well, if you made it this far, I've at least picqued your curiousity.

Allow me a minute to give you some background.

I lived with my grandfather for 13 years when I was a kid. He was the only Dad I knew then. He was a self-taught gunsmith, and rather active in survivalism.
I learned things from him at age 10 I probably couldn't repeat anywhere.

That being said, while he did teach me alot, I got out of shooting when he and my Grandmother retired and moved to northern MN.

When he passed in 2000, he left me a Browning Automatic .308 for deer hunting.
I recently purchased a .22 LR and modified it extensively, and after some shooting last summer, I've rediscovered my love for weapons (I know, I know..it's not a "Gun"...that was made very clear when I was a kid).

I am 37, work as a Computer Network Engineer and have been following politics and world events quite closely for the last 3 years and I'm becoming increasingly worried about our current state of affairs with the economy, terrorism, freakin liberals, and a drastic loss of civill liberties.

OK...so get to the point....I know.

For multiple reasons (feel free to read into it), I'm looking to get into a AR style rifle.

Part of me wants one for home defense, but many could successfully argue that a Remington 870 Defender would be more suitable. Understood. And it's actually on the list as well.

Part of me wants one (or more....) so that I'm prepared in case there's a national disaster, whether it be terrorism or economic collapse, or many other possibilities.

Part of me wants one because I'm afraid that the current administration (my understanding is I can't mention him by name here) is going to ban the damn things, and I'll need it for more than one reason.

I'm in a bit of a conundrum because I'm struggling to decide which platform, manufacturer, options, etc., I'll want/need.

Of course cost is an issue, but I realize you also get what you pay for.
Sounds to me, from my research lately, is that gas-piston operated models are much more reliable, but pricing researchs indicates they are much more expensive.

I'm not even stuck on .223/5.56, and am beginning to understand that the .223 is very accurate but lacks long distance punch. I've read about the 6.8 SPC, and it sounds like it's got much better kinetic energy, but availability is an issue, as well as cost, if my understanding is correct.

My question really boils down to:

I need a suggestion for a AR type rifle.
Because it's my first, would you recommend a cheaper model, such as DPMS or Bushmaster (no offense to owners), or spend the money up front and get a upper level model (SIG556 SWAT, BarretM468, etc)?

It will not be a "safe-baby". I'm going to shoot the crap out of this rifle at the range in order to learn it in every aspect. I expect I'll be tearing it down until I can completely disassemble/assemble without any issues. I also expect this rifle to last me for years, if not all of my years. I understand what is required to keep a weapon in good condition.

Coming here and trying to read these forums is much what I'd expect it would be like for you guys to come to Computer Forum.....acronyms galore and I have to google all of them before I can figure out what the freak you guys are talking about.

Sorry for being long-winded. I would really appreciate someone helping out a newbie.

[AirmanAtwood]

I would stick with a 5.56/.223 chambering over the 6.8 and others just based on availability and because the 5.56/.223 mags and ammo is more widely available. Right now the odds of finding a good rifle at a honest price is getting hard. If you can, get a Colt or LMT. Another option is waiting for Bravo company USA, to get their BCM uppers in stock, Then find either a stripped or complete lower to mate it to.

You are correct in your statement of "you get what you pay for". You will find that the AR platform is endless when it comes to customization. Some of these parts are cheaply made junk, and other, while more expensive, will give you something to depend your life on. Understand your surroundings and to what situation you believe you would be using your rifle the most and customize accordingly.

Here are some sites that will help you find what you need.

https://www.gandrtactical.com/
-Grant is a great guy and If you have a question he can most definitley answer it for you.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/


http://laruetactical.com/


http://www.brownells.com/

[fruitjacket]

I would stick with a 5.56/.223 chambering over the 6.8 and others just based on availability and because the 5.56/.223 mags and ammo is more widely available. Right now the odds of finding a good rifle at a honest price is getting hard. If you can, get a Colt or LMT. Another option is waiting for Bravo company USA, to get their BCM uppers in stock, Then find either a stripped or complete lower to mate it to.

You are correct in your statement of "you get what you pay for". You will find that the AR platform is endless when it comes to customization. Some of these parts are cheaply made junk, and other, while more expensive, will give you something to depend your life on. Understand your surroundings and to what situation you believe you would be using your rifle the most and customize accordingly.

Here are some sites that will help you find what you need.

https://www.gandrtactical.com/
-Grant is a great guy and If you have a question he can most definitley answer it for you.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/


http://laruetactical.com/


http://www.brownells.com/

Thanks for the links and the opinions. You make a great point about sticking with the 5.56/.223.

I understand that Colts are/were considered the best because of their stricter tolerances in manufacturing, but why LMT? Same reason?

I hear alot of talk about uppers and lowers, etc. Am I correct in my assumption that most/many of the parts from different manufacturers are interchangable?

(Goes to show you how much I DON'T know...).


Thanks again for your reply. I really appreciate it.

[AirmanAtwood]

Thanks for the links and the opinions. You make a great point about sticking with the 5.56/.223.

I understand that Colts are/were considered the best because of their stricter tolerances in manufacturing, but why LMT? Same reason?

I hear alot of talk about uppers and lowers, etc. Am I correct in my assumption that most/many of the parts from different manufacturers are interchangable?

(Goes to show you how much I DON'T know...).


Thanks again for your reply. I really appreciate it.

Yeah, LMT makes a fine weapon. Another I forgot to list was Noveske. Colt, LMT, and Noveske all make exceptional rifles and you wont regret a purchase from any of the 3.

Yes, AR are generally made to the same spec. Meaning that you can take an upper from a colt and mate it to a bushmaster lower or take a noveske lower and mate it to a BCM upper. The exception is out of spec receivers which can be fixed by sending it back to the manufacturer to get it fixed, or rifles made to match a specific lower/upper.

[parishioner]

Welcome to the forum. You have just tapped into an amazing resource when it comes to learning about weapons, specifically the AR platform. There are numerous professionals who have been around the block and back when it comes to these topics who are active members here and for that we are all appreciative. They provide real world experience and to me that is very valuable. There are also people here that are not mil/le who probably shoot more than 30 people do in thier lifetime so again their input is worth taking.

Here is my opinion. If you plan to "shoot the crap out of it" a 5.56 as opposed to a 6.8 is the better option. It will be expensive to shoot regardless but 6.8 is a bit pricey. Also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a conventional DI AR-15. They are ALOT more reliable than you think if you know how to take care of them. Anyway, I could actually go on for days about the things you mentioned but for the sake of my fingers I wont.

Finally, Keep reading, Keep reading, Keep reading. Thats what I did and it allowed me to learn so much more than I ever thought. Good luck.

[fruitjacket]

Yeah, LMT makes a fine weapon. Another I forgot to list was Noveske. Colt, LMT, and Noveske all make exceptional rifles and you wont regret a purchase from any of the 3.

Yes, AR are generally made to the same spec. Meaning that you can take an upper from a colt and mate it to a bushmaster lower or take a noveske lower and mate it to a BCM upper. The exception is out of spec receivers which can be fixed by sending it back to the manufacturer to get it fixed, or rifles made to match a specific lower/upper.


A good upper is more important than the lower (that's what I'm getting)?

I have viewed the links you gave me and favorited them. Thanks again.

Since Colts are basically the 'original' and seems to be that all of these AR's are modeled after them, then how come a SIG556 SWAT(for example) costs SO much more? Is it the add-ons or is it a quality issue?

Thanks again...I won't bug you anymore...you've been more than helpful.

[fruitjacket]

Welcome to the forum. You have just tapped into an amazing resource when it comes to learning about weapons, specifically the AR platform. There are numerous professionals who have been around the block and back when it comes to these topics who are active members here and for that we are all appreciative. They provide real world experience and to me that is very valuable. There are also people here that are not mil/le who probably shoot more than 30 people do in thier lifetime so again their input is worth taking.

Here is my opinion. If you plan to "shoot the crap out of it" a 5.56 as opposed to a 6.8 is the better option. It will be expensive to shoot regardless but 6.8 is a bit pricey. Also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a conventional DI AR-15. They are ALOT more reliable than you think if you know how to take care of them. Anyway, I could actually go on for days about the things you mentioned but for the sake of my fingers I wont.

Finally, Keep reading, Keep reading, Keep reading. Thats what I did and it allowed me to learn so much more than I ever thought. Good luck.


Well, that's how I've learned so much about other things in life is just to read, so I'm planning on doing that. It's just some of the 'technical' terminology is tough to grasp (for example...castle nut...I have no idea what it is....going to hit the SEARCH feature hard).

Oh...also...what is DI?

Thanks for the input. I really appreciate it.

[parishioner]

DI means Direct Impingement. Most ARs use this type of operation. I said this since you mentioned the piston operated weapons.

[fruitjacket]

DI means Direct Impingement. Most ARs use this type of operation.

Thanks for clarifying that. Will research.

[AirmanAtwood]

A good upper is more important than the lower (that's what I'm getting)?


Not necessarily, a good quality lower is just as important as a good upper. Most lowers from manufactures such as bushmaster and Stag will do you the same as a noveske or LMT lower.. There are a few manufacturers like "vulcan arms' that are big time junk. Before you make a purchase make sure its a manufacturer that is g2g.




Since Colts are basically the 'original' and seems to be that all of these AR's are modeled after them, then how come a SIG556 SWAT(for example) costs SO much more? Is it the add-ons or is it a quality issue?



I have no experience with the sig556 but I see on some sites that they are around the $1,500 area. That is the typical price for a good rifle. From what I've heard they run pretty well though.

Just be aware. EBR's are hard to find right now.

[fruitjacket]

Not necessarily, a good quality lower is just as important as a good upper. Most lowers from manufactures such as bushmaster and Stag will do you the same as a noveske or LMT lower.. There are a few manufacturers like "vulcan arms' that are big time junk. Before you make a purchase make sure its a manufacturer that is g2g.





I have no experience with the sig556 but I see on some sites that they are around the $1,500 area. That is the typical price for a good rifle. From what I've heard they run pretty well though.

Just be aware. EBR's are hard to find right now.


EBR = Enhanced Battle Rifle, which means modified to hold rail accessories?? (yes?)

You mentioned earlier that getting a good price is hard right now as well. Is this because of the fear of the Democratically controlled Congress, or is there some other reason?

[SoDak]

A good upper is more important than the lower (that's what I'm getting)?

I have viewed the links you gave me and favorited them. Thanks again.

Since Colts are basically the 'original' and seems to be that all of these AR's are modeled after them, then how come a SIG556 SWAT(for example) costs SO much more? Is it the add-ons or is it a quality issue?

Thanks again...I won't bug you anymore...you've been more than helpful.

Colt is essentially the origional maker and is one of the best due to higher quality control and use of quality materials. The use of high quality standards and quality control goes the same for LMT and Noveske. Other ARs cost less since they usually use cheaper materials and manufacturing methods, which translates into a lesser rifle. As others said, if this is your first AR, Colt, LMT, or Noveske is defineatly the way to go. The SIG556 costs more since it's and entirely different design and I would guess costs more to manufacture.

[AirmanAtwood]

EBR = Enhanced Battle Rifle, which means modified to hold rail accessories?? (yes?)

You mentioned earlier that getting a good price is hard right now as well. Is this because of the fear of the Democratically controlled Congress, or is there some other reason?

EBR= Evil Black Rifle :cool:


The prices have driven up because of the demand going up. There is a huge AWB scare right now and everyone is hoarding buying these rifles up like candy.

[fruitjacket]

EBR= Evil Black Rifle :cool:


The prices have driven up because of the demand going up. There is a huge AWB scare right now and everyone is hoarding buying these rifles up like candy.

I kinda figured that's what it was. What the consensus here and in the 'community' on that issue?

Along those lines, do you see purchasing many of these as a 'investment'? IE...are people hoarding and hoping to sell later at a significant profit?

[AirmanAtwood]

I kinda figured that's what it was. What the consensus here and in the 'community' on that issue?

Along those lines, do you see purchasing many of these as a 'investment'? IE...are people hoarding and hoping to sell later at a significant profit?

I'm sure there are plenty of people buying them for a good turnaround price later on. But I think its mostly because people are afraid they wont be able to buy them later. Its probably one of those "get it because I can before its too late" sort of thing.

[Irish]

Rob from www.tacticalyellowvisor.net posts on here and is a good source of info in my opinion. Go to his Charts section and look at the M4 Chart and it'll explain alot of the things you're paying for in a more expensive brand. Buy once or buy twice...

[fruitjacket]

Rob from www.tacticalyellowvisor.net posts on here and is a good source of info in my opinion. Go to his Charts section and look at the M4 Chart and it'll explain alot of the things you're paying for in a more expensive brand. Buy once or buy twice...

VERY informative link. Reading right now. Thank you very much!