View Full Version : S&W stock buffer or H2?
I have a S&W M&P15 and was wondering if i should keep the stock buffer (which has nothing marked on it) or change it to a H2 buffer. I shot it last week and put 100 rounds through it and fired flawless. Today i tried the H2 buffer and had a shell insert in the barrel but didnt fire so i pulled the charging handle back and released it and then fired ok. I am not sure what happened there but it only did it once. Was this the H2 buffer giving me a problem or just a bad shell. Keep the H2 or run stock.
Keep the stock buffer as was provided originally which ran flawlessly, no need to go with the H2 which sounds like it could be short stroking. Was there a firing pin impression on primer of the misfire?
Not sure but it did fire though. I did push the forward assist and it seated.
Although 100 'flawless' rounds is not even the start of a beginning to a function test, the fact that you had no problems until you changed buffers is an important one.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it is very good advice with a new AR. I'm not talking about adding needed bits, like lights and sights - that's half the fun of owning ARs.
S&W did a pretty good job with the M&Ps.
Sounds like you went from a Standard Carbean buffer to an H2?
I'd have started with an "H" buffer first if you wanted to go a little heavier.
S.A.W. recommends H for 16", H2 for 14.5", and H3 for the shorties. (this is a general guideline.)
Yes it had a stock buffer in it from the factory, I was told that smith has a bigger gas port so a H2 buffer would work well so i tried it. While i was firing i pulled the trigger and nothing happend so i pulled the charging handle back and there was a shell in the chamber but not seated so i released the handle and fired and it was ok from there on out. The stock buffer has no markings on it.
I have a S&W M&P15 and was wondering if i should keep the stock buffer (which has nothing marked on it) or change it to a H2 buffer. I shot it last week and put 100 rounds through it and fired flawless. Today i tried the H2 buffer and had a shell insert in the barrel but didnt fire so i pulled the charging handle back and released it and then fired ok. I am not sure what happened there but it only did it once. Was this the H2 buffer giving me a problem or just a bad shell. Keep the H2 or run stock.
You most likely road the charging handle on the round and the bolt did not full lock.
C4
Although 100 'flawless' rounds is not even the start of a beginning to a function test, the fact that you had no problems until you changed buffers is an important one.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it is very good advice with a new AR. I'm not talking about adding needed bits, like lights and sights - that's half the fun of owning ARs.
S&W did a pretty good job with the M&Ps.
S&W AR's are over gased (FYI). Colt uses H buffers with their M4's and they have a mil-spec gas port size (.063).
The purpose of going with an H or H2 buffer is to slow the bolt down and make the weapon more reliable.
C4
Sounds like you went from a Standard Carbean buffer to an H2?
I'd have started with an "H" buffer first if you wanted to go a little heavier.
S.A.W. recommends H for 16", H2 for 14.5", and H3 for the shorties. (this is a general guideline.)
Those guidlines apply to Colt (which uses mil-spec gas ports sizes). S&W does not.
C4
I see. I didn't know S&Ws were overgassed.
Robb Jensen
02-28-09, 12:52
I see. I didn't know S&Ws were overgassed.
To clarify: S&W are overgassed for 5.56mm NATO pressure ammo. The vast majority of people are shooting .223 Rem SAAMI pressure ammo.
This didnt happen when i was pulling the charging handle back. It happend in the middle of firing. when i pulled the trigger nothing happend so i pulled the charging handle back to see what was going on and the round was in the chamber but it didnt fire so i pulled the mag out released the charging handle and pulled the trigger again and it fired.
S&W AR's are over gased (FYI). Colt uses H buffers with their M4's and they have a mil-spec gas port size (.063).
The purpose of going with an H or H2 buffer is to slow the bolt down and make the weapon more reliable.
C4
Yes, Smith's are.
(FYI)I seem to remember something about buffer types coming up in all 3 of my Colt Mfg and Colt Defense LE Armorer's courses over the past 12 years or so. Does the name Bob Gawe mean anything to anyone? Thanks for the refresher, though. I stand by don't fix it if it aint broke. If you do "fix it", do so in the smallest possible increments, and remove all possible variables.
I put the stock buffer back in it, I had 0 problems with it so i guess if the spring gets weak or something i can put the H2 back in it. If it was supposed to have an H2 buffer in it i guess smith would have put one in it,
MisterWilson
02-28-09, 14:26
Sounds like you went from a Standard Carbean buffer to an H2?
I'd have started with an "H" buffer first if you wanted to go a little heavier.
S.A.W. recommends H for 16", H2 for 14.5", and H3 for the shorties. (this is a general guideline.)
I feel that you're "contributing" incompletely information.
I would wager that if you asked ken, he was assuming you would be shooting full power 5.56 loads.
When joe blow shoots mostly commercial ammo, maybe it would be wise to leave it the F alone.
My $.02 against the "H2 Buffer" establishment...
SwatDawg15
02-28-09, 15:19
I have ran a "H" buffer in my S&W for over a year, guessing about 2k rounds or more. No problems. It seemed to smooth it out a bit from the standard carbine buffer.
Oh, and DIESELSMOKE, aka ROADKING, we have a search function here as well :rolleyes:
I am new to the buffer stuff here but i take it that a h buffer and an h2 buffer is different, People are saying they run a h buffer, The one i have is a h2 buffer maybe it is to heavy.
I see. I didn't know S&Ws were overgassed.
Yes, but then again so do the majority of tier 2 and 3 AR manufacturers.
So if you think about it, a Colt 6920 with a gas port size of .063 comes with an H buffer and you CAN shoot wolf in it and the bolt WILL lock back.
If the have a gas port of .070-.078 (the range the S&W gas ports can run), an H2 buffer is basically the same as running an H buffer in a Colt.
There is a VERY good chance that in the near future, all S&W AR's will come with an H buffer (if not and H2 buffer) direct from the factory.
C4
This didnt happen when i was pulling the charging handle back. It happend in the middle of firing. when i pulled the trigger nothing happend so i pulled the charging handle back to see what was going on and the round was in the chamber but it didnt fire so i pulled the mag out released the charging handle and pulled the trigger again and it fired.
The H2 buffer ACTUALLY has more force (momentum) coming forward than the standard car buffer. So if anything the H2 buffer would have less of an issue chambering a round and locking the lugs.
So you might have just had a bad primer on that cartridge.
C4
That is possable, It just looked like the shell didnt seat in all the way.
Yes, Smith's are.
(FYI)I seem to remember something about buffer types coming up in all 3 of my Colt Mfg and Colt Defense LE Armorer's courses over the past 12 years or so. Does the name Bob Gawe mean anything to anyone? Thanks for the refresher, though. I stand by don't fix it if it aint broke. If you do "fix it", do so in the smallest possible increments, and remove all possible variables.
All AR's will generally run with a Car buffer. What you are doing though with guns that have larger gas ports is kind of beating the gun to death and could be causing undue wear. We have also seen carbines where the bolt is going so fast that the magazine cannot keeup up. These guns typically had a gas port size of .080.
C4
That is possable, It just looked like the shell didnt seat in all the way.
That could be as well, but I bet if you looked at the primer, you would see a strike.
C4
So you are saying the stock buffer will work just fine.
I put the stock buffer back in it, I had 0 problems with it so i guess if the spring gets weak or something i can put the H2 back in it. If it was supposed to have an H2 buffer in it i guess smith would have put one in it,
Incorrect and have your concepts backwards. You have ONE failure and the EXACT same failure could have happened with the car buffer.
Most companies (less Colt, CD, DD) do not use an H, H2, H3 buffer because they are trying to save money (not because the weapon doesn't need it).
There is a significant price difference between and a Car Buffer an H buffer. ;)
C4
So you are saying the stock buffer will work just fine.
Just fine is a relative term. We are not looking for the weapon to "just run" we are after making the weapon as reliable as possible.
C4
So what is your suggestion keep it stock or put the H2 back in it.
I have ran a "H" buffer in my S&W for over a year, guessing about 2k rounds or more. No problems. It seemed to smooth it out a bit from the standard carbine buffer.
Oh, and DIESELSMOKE, aka ROADKING, we have a search function here as well :rolleyes:
Yes, the H buffer (along with the H2 buffer) does slow things down and smoth things out.
C4
So what is your suggestion keep it stock or put the H2 back in it.
Go with the H2 buffer.
C4
I will take your advise and put it back in i just hope that wasnt the problem, like i said it only did this once out of 90 rounds and it did seem to shoot smoother.
I will take your advise and put it back in i just hope that wasnt the problem, like i said it only did this once out of 90 rounds and it did seem to shoot smoother.
Your AR is always going to have malfunctions so please do not change your setup every time you have one!
Come back and report after you have shot at least 500rds in the gun and it is broke in.
C4
OK, I only have about 200 rounds through it now. Thanks for your input i will get a few more rounds in this and report later again thanks.
Your AR is always going to have malfunctions so please do not change your setup every time you have one!
Exactly. Sometimes you just get a bad round or something, or a mag hickups.
QuickStrike
03-02-09, 15:52
If it were a colt, an H2 buffer is probably a bit much for shooting some .223 ammo.
My 6920 has an H2 and has shot all ammo without problems.
But when shooting the weaker stuff (Barnaul) I could feel that the bolt was very sluggish. I felt the BCG & buffer actually going back and slamming forward distinctly.
Was kinda cool, but I wouldn't want that kind of recoil when shooting a defense load..
With a S&W & their slightly bigger gas port, it is probably less of a problem.
If it were a colt, an H2 buffer is probably a bit much for shooting some .223 ammo.
My 6920 has an H2 and has shot all ammo without problems.
But when shooting the weaker stuff (Barnaul) I could feel that the bolt was very sluggish. I felt the BCG & buffer actually going back and slamming forward distinctly.
Was kinda cool, but I wouldn't want that kind of recoil when shooting a defense load..
With a S&W & their slightly bigger gas port, it is probably less of a problem.
I do not think that I would run an H2 in a Colt because of their GP size. You could get away with it if you use higher quality ammo though (which you found out).
C4
I didn't realize there was such a variance between the gas port sizes among different manufacturers. I learn something new here everyday...
Is the MILSPEC gas port significant enough to merit a row on 'the chart'? Seems from the discussion here that the wrong gas port/buffer/ammunition combination could result in reliability issues.
I didn't realize there was such a variance between the gas port sizes among different manufacturers. I learn something new here everyday...
Is the MILSPEC gas port significant enough to merit a row on 'the chart'? Seems from the discussion here that the wrong gas port/buffer/ammunition combination could result in reliability issues.
I do not think a line is needed. The simple way to remember that a company is using larger gas port is if they use cheaper barrel steel (4140) then their gas port is not .063.
Some of these gas ports are so big that you could run an H3 buffer, CS buffer spring, shoot wolf & the bolt will lock back all day long.
C4
If a S&W has a bigger pipe diameter (.078) vs colt (.63)wouldn't the pressure be less than in a Colt. Thus S&W would kinda be forced to have to use a lighter weight buffer?
If a S&W has a bigger pipe diameter (.078) vs colt (.63)wouldn't the pressure be less than in a Colt. Thus S&W would kinda be forced to have to use a lighter weight buffer?
Your numbers are wrong. Colt uses .063.
C4
I do not think a line is needed. The simple way to remember that a company is using larger gas port is if they use cheaper barrel steel (4140) then their gas port is not .063.
Some of these gas ports are so big that you could run an H3 buffer, CS buffer spring, shoot wolf & the bolt will lock back all day long.
C4
Thanks Grant. What about running 5.56mm ammo in a large gas port with a carbine buffer - would the rifle suffer unusual parts wear or battering?
Sorry - I MEANT to say .063 its a typo but still I would assume I would get my question across...
MisterWilson
03-03-09, 21:39
I don't think that you're taking into account the ammo most likely used.
Colt - 5.56
S&W - Wolf, bear, pvri, .223 crap, & maybe some 5.56.
Thanks Grant. What about running 5.56mm ammo in a large gas port with a carbine buffer - would the rifle suffer unusual parts wear or battering?
Yes, I think you are beating the gun to death. Luckily, TRUE 556 ammo is hard to come by.
C4
Yes, I think you are beating the gun to death. Luckily, TRUE 556 ammo is hard to come by.
C4
Grant,
Again, thanks for the education. Not so much worried about me - both of my rifles have H buffers, but I have a few friends with stock RRAs who will probably benefit from an H buffer upgrade.
I have been hearing about people changing the buffer in the SMITH & WESSON M&P15 to H2 buffers and there tech dept said there is no need to do this, The stock mil-spec buffer that comes in them is made for the smith. They said if its good enough for the military it is good for civillian use. They also said it slows the bolt carrier down to slow and will cause misfeeds and jams. If it helped the rifle they would be put in from the factory. Just for your info.
RealFastV6
03-04-09, 13:50
Well there ya go, it's settled.
Well there ya go, it's settled.
Where's that "ROTFL" smiley when you need it. I literally chuckled out loud when I read that.
I just threw all my Hbuffers into Tempe Town Lake!!!
I just threw all my Hbuffers into Tempe Town Lake!!!
Is that where your auto carriers wound up too? I need to rent rent some diving equipment near there...
So much for the bufffer aftermarket. What about the spring ;)
Well shit I guess the manufacturers know everything better than we do. Don't I feel dumb now?
Well shit I guess the manufacturers know everything better than we do. Don't I feel dumb now?
Same reason the headers and cat-back I wanted to put on my GTO voided the warranty.
No need in spending money if you dont have to, the manufactures build it so they should no more than us. thats why they build guns and we work. Like the old saying goes (IF ITS NOT BROKE DONT FIX IT).
I have been hearing about people changing the buffer in the SMITH & WESSON M&P15 to H2 buffers and there tech dept said there is no need to do this, The stock mil-spec buffer that comes in them is made for the smith. They said if its good enough for the military it is good for civillian use. They also said it slows the bolt carrier down to slow and will cause misfeeds and jams. If it helped the rifle they would be put in from the factory. Just for your info.
You got a CS person that has most likely never even built an AR before (FYI).
To show you how clueless they are, the Military M4's comes with an H buffer (not car). :rolleyes:
He also left out the part that the Military M4 has a has port size of .063. The S&W AR does not have that size gas port.
S&W tries so hard to save money on their AR's that they one time stopped using the C clamp on the dust cover rod because it saved 2 cents. Do you really think that they are going to spend $25 on an H2 buffer???????
Understand that almost ALL gun manufacturers (less Colt, DD, Noveske and CD) use the cheapest buffer possible. They do not do this because it is BETTER, but because it puts more money in their pocket!
C4
No need in spending money if you dont have to, the manufactures build it so they should no more than us. thats why they build guns and we work. Like the old saying goes (IF ITS NOT BROKE DONT FIX IT).
You are missing the point. Rock River Arms uses a Dremmel Tool to cut their M4 feed ramps...is that because they know something we don't?
Well if that is the case then we don't need to worry about non-staked castle nuts, bolt carrier keys, castle nuts installed backwards a la Les Baer, chambers that aren't truly 5.56 even when the barrels is marked, improper extractor inserts and springs, etc.... ad nauseum. After all they wouldn't make it that way of it wasn't wrong right? And they always work don't they? :rolleyes:
While I am ranting he barely fired enought rounds through the damn thing to begin with and already started dicking around with it because the mysterious "someone" told him about an H2 buffer. That mysterious someone obviously left out details and the OP apparently hasn't taken the time to research the issue correctly especially because he didn't know the difference between a standard, H, H2, H3 buffer.
No need in spending money if you dont have to, the manufactures build it so they should no more than us. thats why they build guns and we work. Like the old saying goes (IF ITS NOT BROKE DONT FIX IT).
I just threw all my Hbuffers into Tempe Town Lake!!!
I will be over shortly to recover them. ;)
C4
No need in spending money if you dont have to, the manufactures build it so they should no more than us. thats why they build guns and we work. Like the old saying goes (IF ITS NOT BROKE DONT FIX IT).
You would be shocked to learn how little some of these manufacturers know.
S&W has forgotten more about building pistols and revolvers than most companies will ever know. The AR things is new to them (just like they are too you).
I could tell you guys some real interesing info, but I have an NDA signed with S&W so.......
C4
Understand that almost ALL gun manufacturers (less Colt, DD, Noveske and CD) use the cheapest buffer possible. They do not do this because it is BETTER, but because it puts more money in their pocket!
C4
...which is sad because I would gladly pay an extra $25 for a weapon that came with the correct part(s), rather than having to spend another $25 after I buy the weapon.
...which is sad because I would gladly pay an extra $25 for a weapon that came with the correct part(s), rather than having to spend another $25 after I buy the weapon.
Yes, I know, but you are FAR more educated about how AR's run and what is needed for them to run at their best.
Most people have no idea how to even take apart their AR, like to shoot dirt and want everything as cheap as possible.
C4
No need in spending money if you dont have to, the manufactures build it so they should no more than us. thats why they build guns and we work. Like the old saying goes (IF ITS NOT BROKE DONT FIX IT).
Now I REALLY need the ROTFLMAO smiley!
Now I REALLY need the ROTFLMAO smiley!
Ya, no chit. I remember one time I called up Oly and I asked them why they didn't stake their gas key. They advised me that it wasn't needed and the staking made it harder to change it out.
Ya, they know best....:rolleyes:
This is why build all my own AR's.
C4
Well if that is the case then we don't need to worry about non-staked castle nuts, bolt carrier keys, castle nuts installed backwards a la Les Baer, chambers that aren't truly 5.56 even when the barrels is marked, improper extractor inserts and springs, etc.... ad nauseum. After all they wouldn't make it that way of it wasn't wrong right? And they always work don't they? :rolleyes:
I blame gun magazines. I wouldn't even wipe my ass with one... 3/4s of the rhetoric you hear in gun stores* is the regurgitated shit they[writers] type (the other 1/4 is complete myth).
*Site Sponsors Not Included!
I blame gun magazines. I wouldn't even wipe my ass with one... 3/4s of the rhetoric you hear in gun stores* is the regurgitated shit they[writers] type (the other 1/4 is complete myth).
*Site Sponsors Not Included!
Gun mags started it, but the errornet has grown it 10,0000 times.
C4
dorchester
03-04-09, 18:15
I have fired and observed two M&P 15's pretty extensively and I am surprised to hear they have larger than normal gas ports. Both are very cranky with .223 pressure loads (not locking back the bolts, etc.) but work just fine with 5.56 ammo. I made both owners use lots of lubrication, too. One of the guns is below 55,000 serial number, the other is 69,000 or so. Were there changes along the line? Should we be looking at some other problem with these two rifles? It would sure save these guys on ammo costs if I could get them to work with .223.
I have fired and observed two M&P 15's pretty extensively and I am surprised to hear they have larger than normal gas ports. Both are very cranky with .223 pressure loads (not locking back the bolts, etc.) but work just fine with 5.56 ammo. I made both owners use lots of lubrication, too. One of the guns is below 55,000 serial number, the other is 69,000 or so. Were there changes along the line? Should we be looking at some other problem with these two rifles? It would sure save these guys on ammo costs if I could get them to work with .223.
How old are the guns? There is a big change between the guns now and that were made 8-12 months ago.
I think I know what the problem is.
C4
dorchester
03-04-09, 18:22
Would you believe they are about 8 or 12 months old? They aren't mine but that does seem about the right time frame when my buds bought them (at my advice for a reasonably priced AR that would work).
Would you believe they are about 8 or 12 months old? They aren't mine but that does seem about the right time frame when my buds bought them (at my advice for a reasonably priced AR that would work).
Check your PM.
C4
dorchester
03-04-09, 18:32
Thanks Grant, this has been bugging me for a while.
dwhitehorne
03-04-09, 18:39
I've got an early M&P made by STAG. I just switched from an H buffer(put that in my middy) and got a RRA 9mm buffer. Shoots very smooth with hardly any muzzle rise. I ran about 200 rounds of Wolf 55gr through it a few weeks ago in 20 degree weather and everything functioned fine. I've had the H buffer in it for about 3 years without any problems also. I would bet the OP just had an isolated problem round. The H2 should be fine with the semi auto carrier. David
I think a H buffer would be fine in the S&W but the H2 might be to much.
I think a H buffer would be fine in the S&W but the H2 might be to much.
How would you know that the H2 is too much? What is the basis for your opinion?
C4
I've got an early M&P made by STAG. I just switched from an H buffer(put that in my middy) and got a RRA 9mm buffer. Shoots very smooth with hardly any muzzle rise. I ran about 200 rounds of Wolf 55gr through it a few weeks ago in 20 degree weather and everything functioned fine. I've had the H buffer in it for about 3 years without any problems also. I would bet the OP just had an isolated problem round. The H2 should be fine with the semi auto carrier. David
So you are basically running an H3 buffer in your S&W without issue?
I have run H2's in Colt's just fine, then again, I shoot Hornady TAP practice.
C4
I never had an issue until i put the H2 buffer in it.
I never had an issue until i put the H2 buffer in it.
You didn't have an issue. You had a round chamber, but not go bang. This could be from a bad primer (you do not know). This could very well have happend with the bone stock buffer or an H buffer or an H3 buffer.
Put some more rounds through the weapon (or at least break it in which is 500rds) and get back to us.
I could run an H3 buffer in your gun and have no issues (FYI).
C4
The shell didnt seat in the chamber all the way, which looks like to me the bolt didnt go forward fast enouph to chamber the round due to the slowdown of the H2 buffer.
The shell didnt seat in the chamber all the way, which looks like to me the bolt didnt go forward fast enouph to chamber the round due to the slowdown of the H2 buffer.
Buddy, do you understand that the H2 buffer has more mass moving forward than your car buffer??? This means that it has WAY more force and if it couldn't chamber the round, then the car buffer never could.
Now, the signs for a gun that is either under gassed or has a buffer that is too heavy is short stroking. If your bolt will not lock back, then you have an issue.
I am about 99% certain that I could run an H3 buffer in your gun without issue (let alone an H2).
C4
Ok but it just makes you wonder why it didnt have an issue until i put the H2 in it.
Did you get any 556 or 223 in stock yet. BRASS.
Ok but it just makes you wonder why it didnt have an issue until i put the H2 in it.
It doesn't make me wonder in the least. AR's malfuntion. The sky is blue, water is wet & AR's malfunction.
As I told you twice now, do not go changing you AR around every time you have a malfunction!
C4
As I told you twice now, do not go changing you AR around every time you have a malfunction!
It's kinda like making a sight adjustment after firing ONE ROUND. :rolleyes: You'll be chasing your tail forever.
This thread is reminding me of Tombstone.
Christ almighty, it's like I'm sittin' here playing cards with my brother's kids or somethin'.
CryingWolf
03-05-09, 04:18
Now I am curious, should I change my stock S&W buffer, assumed CAR buffer, with a H or H2 buffer? Which one would be better the H or H2?
I see some of the reasons but if it ain't broke etc. What do I specifically gain? I have been shooting mainly .223 REM, but now I have been going through the 5.56 ammo. Read; I will be going back and forth between the two ammo types.
Thinking I don't want to put much thought into what ammo I am going to shoot, I like to grab the M4 and some ammo and go. What buffer would be best for the set it and forget it kind of guy? In the long run will it make that big of a difference on smoothness or parts wear?
Now I am curious, should I change my stock S&W buffer, assumed CAR buffer, with a H or H2 buffer? Which one would be better the H or H2?
I see some of the reasons but if it ain't broke etc. What do I specifically gain? I have been shooting mainly .223 REM, but now I have been going through the 5.56 ammo. Read; I will be going back and forth between the two ammo types.
Thinking I don't want to put much thought into what ammo I am going to shoot, I like to grab the M4 and some ammo and go. What buffer would be best for the set it and forget it kind of guy? In the long run will it make that big of a difference on smoothness or parts wear?
What buffer have you been using and has it been giving you any problems.
Now I am curious, should I change my stock S&W buffer, assumed CAR buffer, with a H or H2 buffer? Which one would be better the H or H2?
I see some of the reasons but if it ain't broke etc. What do I specifically gain? I have been shooting mainly .223 REM, but now I have been going through the 5.56 ammo. Read; I will be going back and forth between the two ammo types.
Thinking I don't want to put much thought into what ammo I am going to shoot, I like to grab the M4 and some ammo and go. What buffer would be best for the set it and forget it kind of guy? In the long run will it make that big of a difference on smoothness or parts wear?
At a minimum, I would go with an H buffer. You specifically gain more reliability as it is slowing your bolt head speed down and you will notice SOME reduction in felt recoil.
C4
dwhitehorne
03-05-09, 06:37
CryingWolf, I'm no AR expert but this is what I did. I have a a S&W and Stag both carbines basically the same rifle and a mid length Delton. About 3 or 4 years ago I got a H3 buffer for a deal. I opened it up and took the weights out and made 3 H buffers for my three rifles. My Delton had a stuck round in the chamber from switching back and forth from steel and brass cased ammo. Other than that one stoppage, I have never had an issue in my 3 weapons using the H buffer. I have continued to read threads from people recommending the RRA 9mm buffer to change the recoil impulse of the carbine. I put my original H3 buffer back together and tried it in both of my carbines. I waited to try them out in the coldest weather using the weakest ammo I had, Wolf. I then spent 25 bucks for a 9mm buffer in one carbine and have the H3 in another. Both of my carbines have semi auto carriers.
The reason I switched is solely for the felt recoil. I can double tap and triple tap with almost no muzzle rise. On a sand bag rest the sights don't even move off the target. I was definately a noticable difference in recoil. I figured for 25 dollars for the 9mm buffer it is worth a try considering all the other money we spend on BRD. David
I am still confused between the H buffer and H2 buffer (which one to use). Seems more people use the H buffer.
RK,
Seriously now. Are you paying attention to anything that has been posted here? Go back and re-read what has been said and then look at the information.
I am still confused between the H buffer and H2 buffer (which one to use). Seems more people use the H buffer.
My rule of thumb:
C for 16" midlengths and over
H for 14.5-16" carbine
H2 for 10.5-12.5"
H3 for 10.5"-12.5" suppressed
Keep in mind that there are a LOT of variables here. Port size, carrier type, ammo type, make/model of suppressor, and even rifling twist could all play a role. The best thing to do is to find the heaviest buffer that will run reliably with your setup with ALL of your typical ammo types.
With all of that said, if I had an M&P that was running without issue I wouldn't go changing around buffers unless I had the time to sit down with a few different ammo types and test them. The easiest test when going to a heavier buffer is to load a single round in a magazine and see if the carbine locks back on the last round reliably. I'd do this 10-20 times with each type of ammo.
There is essentially nothing bad that can happen from running the buffer that came in the gun. If you're able to run the carbine for 1k rounds between cleanings with nothing more than lube I wouldn't put a huge priority on changing out the buffer.
RK,
Seriously now. Are you paying attention to anything that has been posted here? Go back and re-read what has been said and then look at the information.
You know, when I saw this thread on the AR General Discussion main page, I was wondering how it got to this many pages. After reading it, now I know why. :rolleyes:
I am still confused between the H buffer and H2 buffer (which one to use). Seems more people use the H buffer.
H is kind of the standard as Colt uses it in their weapons and is an issued item with the Mil-Spec M4. Remember though that those guns have a much smaller gas port than yours.
You could run anything from an H3 to a Car buffer. The H2 is a good middle that will allow you to shoot any ammo.
C4
Both of my 6920's work fine with the OEM H Buffer.
Both of my LMT 16" guns have H buffers.
The only 16" gun (in 5.56) I own that uses an H2 buffer is a Rock River Arms, Model POS.
I never had an issue until i put the H2 buffer in it.
how do you specifically relate your FTF with the buffer?
I am still confused between the H buffer and H2 buffer (which one to use). Seems more people use the H buffer.
here's a clue - go back and read what Grant already told you and do that. or don't...
QuickStrike
03-05-09, 16:26
The only 16" gun (in 5.56) I own that uses an H2 buffer is a Rock River Arms, Model POS.
New offering? :cool:
how do you specifically relate your FTF with the buffer?
H2 slowing down the bolt carrier keeping it from fully chambering another round.
H2 slowing down the bolt carrier keeping it from fully chambering another round.
Not coming back (doesn't work that way).
C4
dialM4murder
03-10-09, 20:57
I do not think a line is needed. The simple way to remember that a company is using larger gas port is if they use cheaper barrel steel (4140) then their gas port is not .063.
Some of these gas ports are so big that you could run an H3 buffer, CS buffer spring, shoot wolf & the bolt will lock back all day long.
C4
Yup, I had an upper just like that. "Gun show special" :)
Had to run a 9mm buffer just to get decent reliability. Nothing but LMT for me from now on.
flyboy1788
03-10-09, 21:31
You would be shocked to learn how little some of these manufacturers know.
S&W has forgotten more about building pistols and revolvers than most companies will ever know. The AR things is new to them (just like they are too you).
I could tell you guys some real interesing info, but I have an NDA signed with S&W so.......
C4
oooo, please do explain, this intrigues me. It seems as if your attitude toward smith has taken a negative turn. I remember you used to speak more highly of them(m&p15s). Fill us in on the dirt...
dialM4murder
03-10-09, 21:36
oooo, please do explain, this intrigues me. It seems as if your attitude toward smith has taken a negative turn. I remember you used to speak more highly of them(m&p15s). Fill us in on the dirt...
He just said he can't say anything as he's bound by contract with S&W.
flyboy1788
03-10-09, 21:39
He just said he can't say anything as he's bond by contract with S&W.
...but,....but, its KILLING ME:D
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