View Full Version : Man Defeats Taser
Former SEAL defeats taser:
I saw this episode of Fight Science on Nat Geo and was quite surprised to see this.
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/fight-science/3049/Overview#tab-Videos/03296_09
I saw a show on fox I think(cops?) that showed a big drunk guy pull the barbs out like that .although most people I have seen get hit with one goes down and thats the end.I had a friend that was a sheriff hit me with one that you have to touch with the two prongs.needless to say I went down those things hurt.when I hit him same thing he was down:D
More important than understanding what the taser is, is understanding what it is not.
The taser should never be regarded as a "failsafe weapon for safe defense", regardless of whether or not Chris Caracci can get a command through the neural pathways.
Chris Caracci also isn't the only one to have done these types of exercises. Various techniques prior to discharge, during the fall, rolls thereafter, can all limit utility of the taser.
Mental conditioning is also key. There's nothing quite like a room full of cops that have seen the promo videos to fulfill expectations. Take another sampling of those who have never seen a taser or a video, and the effects can be different.
Now that tasers have been out a few years, and there are more subjects that have been tased multiple times, the myths and realities are getting more play.
Good deployment strategy is to go to plan B immediately upon discharge just in case. Deployment in pairs is also prudent when it really counts. Always anticipate failure.
I like, carry, and use an X26. They're better than alternatives, but they aren't magic.
Cops have been killed when they failed to have a cover officer or when they used the taser instead of their pistol. This video serves as a good example of the Taser's limitations
Mental conditioning is also key. There's nothing quite like a room full of cops that have seen the promo videos to fulfill expectations. Take another sampling of those who have never seen a taser or a video, and the effects can be different.
Now that tasers have been out a few years, and there are more subjects that have been tased multiple times, the myths and realities are getting more play.
You could say the same about pepper spray. I've seen guys where OC doesn't affect them. Possibly because of what you said about sampling. If you tell some one OC will burn, they get that in their head and expect the worse. But sometimes you get those ones that have never been exposed to OC and it just doesn't do anything to them. Either that or they're just a bunch of freaks.:D
PRGGodfather
02-28-09, 18:02
And Chris Caracci is a Grade AAAA bad-ass, who learned to suck up and fight through a lot of pain -- as he is a legend even among the SeALs.
While the point is well-taken that nothing is 100% reliable, that's why dual-force, back-up and alternative weapons strategies must continue to be considered in any defensive response.
The TASER is a useful tool, but those who do not prepare for its failure are fools, indeed.
diving dave
02-28-09, 19:14
Interesting video...but it doesnt take a bad ass SEAL to that..I've the same experience tasing a nutcase who wasnt exactly a huge guy, but wanted to fight like hell. First taser shot did exactly what you see in the video, he reached up and grabbed the darts out. Its a great tool, but like anything else it doesnt work all the time. What is very effective is to try to get a shot into the large muscles of the back. While my nutcase was fighting with other officers and shrugging off baton blows, I tasered him from behind , which was very effective.
what about the guy that screamed "dont taze me bro'"? that didnt work, but it was funny:D
VooDoo6Actual
02-28-09, 20:23
Yes, Chris is real deal and knows his stuff no doubt.
Worked a few GIGs w/ him.
We've found some videos of local gang members, and the Regional Jail Authority has caught inmates practicing to roll as the fall in an attempt to try and pull out the barbs. Scary, but true.
MarshallDodge
02-28-09, 20:39
Thanks for posting this.
I have been hearing people starting to recommend tasers over firearms for self defense. My biggest issue is how do you train to use a taser? Shoot it at a target?
This video makes me even more wary.
kaiservontexas
02-28-09, 20:44
Taser Experiment video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxCyAWmF2uI
3 people shocked, all 3 get up and fire and do a mag change.
waiting for the guys from the other thread about dumb things you hear in gun stores who puts primers in the hollow point to put small batteries in next :) to help first tase the person then the primer will make the bullet explode !!!
man the ultimate round !!!
first it tases
then it blows up
kinda wild video though and the fact it did lock em up and he fell !!!
that still shows it has a punch if it hits and stays in !!
they need to make some huge barbs and hooks that go in like a slip tip for spear fishing no pulling those out !!!!!
one of our Krav Maga senior instructor took it like a stud and brushed it off !! did nothing on him..crazy..
Thanks for posting this.
I have been hearing people starting to recommend tasers over firearms for self defense. My biggest issue is how do you train to use a taser? Shoot it at a target?
This video makes me even more wary.
also- what if you miss.
i don't know of many people that CCW muzzle loaded handguns.
Well all I know is it hurts like hell.
Just like the "mythical magical one stop bullet" there is also no perfect less lethal device or option out there. I have seen people get OC'd that immediately fell to the ground and screamed like girls and others that it seemingly had no impact on. For every plan you need a back up and and a back up for the back up.
I have been hearing people starting to recommend tasers over firearms for self defense.
Very few are worth listening to.
Tasers can supplement, but should never supplant, lethal weapons.
My biggest issue is how do you train to use a taser? Shoot it at a target?
This video makes me even more wary.
Imagine shooting a single shot handgun of extremely short effective range, and the process of reloading it under stress. All, for a cost per round of what you're paying for an entire box or two or premium defensive handgun ammunition.
I carry and use an X26. I like it. It isn't magic sauce. It fails. Plan accordingly.
GLOCKMASTER
03-01-09, 09:05
Good video to show people that it is not a fix all. However, it was a poor TASER shot. I would like to see if he could handle a center mass shot instead of being shot in just the arm.
You could say the same about pepper spray. I've seen guys where OC doesn't affect them. Possibly because of what you said about sampling. If you tell some one OC will burn, they get that in their head and expect the worse. But sometimes you get those ones that have never been exposed to OC and it just doesn't do anything to them. Either that or they're just a bunch of freaks.:D
I would say the same about pepper spray.
A tool with limited utility. As with ANY tool, even your handgun, have a plan for failure.
I sprayed a young "Earthquake McGoon" one time, right in the face, to include one eye, with a DefTec product. After a 20 seconds reflection, he leaned toward me and whispered..."what am I supposed to do now?" Fortunately he was a police reserve officer.
Robb Jensen
03-01-09, 09:43
Former Seal defeats taser:
I saw this episode of Fight Science on Nat Geo and was quite surprised to see this.
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/fight-science/3049/Overview#tab-Videos/03296_09
I believe it's SEAL.
Don't tase me bro! no seriously i said don't
And here is a video of a taser working as advertised :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auy9L49UijE
Fascinating videos.
Can one drop the taser unit and still have the unit deliver the charge, so as to enable one's escape?
Because if the answer is no, then its use for civilian self defense is quite limited for obvious reasons. If you are still there once the stimulation is complete, you now have an extremely pissed off attacker that can launch a vicious attack on you.
Taser Experiment video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxCyAWmF2uI
3 people shocked, all 3 get up and fire and do a mag change.
Based on my single experience being tased, when it was over it was over. It was like nothing had happened. I didn't even fall over, though I had the benefit of being told to get in a solid stance before the demo and this was with the last-generation (pre-26) Taser. I also got the wide barb spread of back pocket and shirt pocket (larger arc in the body = more "stunning power").
Well all I know is it hurts like hell.
At least for the ride I took, I didn't think it hurt at all. It's a weird feeling not being able to move much, and at least for me time slowed down (felt like I was "in there" for about a minute). The only pain was the little burn marks it left on my nipple and ass.
Can one drop the taser unit and still have the unit deliver the charge, so as to enable one's escape?
The current "civilian" version, as I understand it, uses a weaker charge but a much longer cycle (30 seconds as opposed to 5). It gives the BG a harsh blast at first, then just keeps him toasty for the rest of the time. The whole concept is that you hit the BG with the taser, drop it on the ground, and run while he rides out the 30 seconds.
I haven't seen the civilian model in use so cannot comment beyond that.
John Hearne
03-01-09, 15:11
This December, I went through two Taser Cartridges, 1/2 a can of OC, and an awesome baton strike, followed by some wrestling on the ground to take a drunk into custody. NOTHING is 100%.
Based on my single experience being tased, when it was over it was over. It was like nothing had happened. I didn't even fall over, though I had the benefit of being told to get in a solid stance before the demo and this was with the last-generation (pre-26) Taser. I also got the wide barb spread of back pocket and shirt pocket (larger arc in the body = more "stunning power").
Exactly. When it's off, it's off. Unless you sustained injury in a ground level fall, you are in exactly the same condition that you were in when the switch turned on.
Get up. Shut up. Man up. Get back in the fight. This whiney, sniveling, thing cops do during their exposures is embarassing.
At least for the ride I took, I didn't think it hurt at all. It's a weird feeling not being able to move much, and at least for me time slowed down (felt like I was "in there" for about a minute).
That's my observation from multiple exposures. "Pain" isn't the right word. It's less than that. Psychologically disruptive, too.
If I used the word "pain", it would be in making the distinction between the blunt pulse of the M26 and the shaped pulse of the X26. I found the M26s more painful, but the Xs more disabling.
The only pain was the little burn marks it left on my nipple and ass.
Someone must've set it up that way, unless you're a freak of nature? :eek:
GLOCKMASTER
03-01-09, 15:53
At least for the ride I took, I didn't think it hurt at all. It's a weird feeling not being able to move much, and at least for me time slowed down (felt like I was "in there" for about a minute). The only pain was the little burn marks it left on my nipple and ass.
Sounds like someone suckered you into being clipped instead of taking an actual shot.:D
This whiney, sniveling, thing cops do during their exposures is embarassing.
It's voodoo. They're told it will have that effect. They're shown videos demonstrating that effect. When it happens to them, they act the way they've been shown. TASER would be doing officers a greater service if they demonstrated just how "resisting" a person can be after the pop.
When I did my demo, it was at an IACP (get zapped, win a t-shirt). Right after it was over, and like I said I was still standing, I actually commented to the people around us, "Right now if I wanted to, I could walk right over there and take your wallet." At which point the TASER guy held up the gun and said, "It's still got juice for a second ride." And I become much more compliant. :cool:
If I used the word "pain", it would be in making the distinction between the blunt pulse of the M26 and the shaped pulse of the X26. I found the M26s more painful, but the Xs more disabling.
My ride was in '02. Don't know what the latest-greatest was then, but that's the only generation I've felt.
Someone must've set it up that way, unless you're a freak of nature? :eek:
I just have such smooth, sensitive skin. :D
Sounds like someone suckered you into being clipped instead of taking an actual shot.:D
Yup.
The Nat Geo video would be more informative if they measured the probe spread. 4'' or less = pain compliance. A greater spread causes neuromuscular disruption. It looks like Mr Carracci took one probe in his left arm and another in his torso. Either way, he is one bad hombre.
My departmental Taser instructor viewed the video and implied that the Taser was not used properly because the hits were not both in the torso with a larger spread. I disagree. The hits seemed solid and spread out
Its is easy to get perfect placement during a demonstration. In actual use I have had about a 50 % effectiveness after zapping 8 people. Sometimes people wear shirts . Sometimes they even move. Sometimes they are drunk or just plain pissed.
I like the Taser. It is quite useful as a compliance tool. I dont think it is that great of a weapon. As stated earlier, it has limitations.
Failure2Stop
03-02-09, 01:35
Always anticipate failure.
I could write a book using just this sentence as a thesis.
Likewise, I could probably fill a book with the names of the dead that failed to heed this simple concept.
HolyRoller
03-02-09, 17:45
A Taser is a tool in the toolbox. It's very useful but like any tool it won't do everything or work every time. That's show biz. Have a Plan B, C, D, and E.
In my training class, I jumped to first in line to get shot, and I am on video going "owwww, owowowow oooh Lord, ahhh" current stops "I have GOT to get me one of THESE!" I was right ready to get up and give something back. Lesson learned.
Another deputy was heard bragging the day before about how he was very strong and wasn't going to fall over. He didn't. I'm glad he's on OUR side.
I've seen several episodes of Fight Science and it's of course entertainment first, but has less BS than some others. This seems to be true of National Geographic Channel shows in general. Lord save us from AssclownQuest and UFO Retards on History, haunted house idiots on Discovery, and psychotic psychics on A&E.
Sidewinder6
03-05-09, 13:08
Grew his hair long.
How many instances have we all heard about people receiving life ending wounds who end up killing their attacker before bleeding out?
The TASER is nice in that it helps to keep you from getting tore up.
So were night sticks.
Caracci is probably one of the people who would beat you to death with the gun you shot him with.
1BadBushmaster
03-09-09, 09:08
Former SEAL defeats taser:
I saw this episode of Fight Science on Nat Geo and was quite surprised to see this.
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/fight-science/3049/Overview#tab-Videos/03296_09
These are actually really good shows. I love it when technique is backed up by science. They also had one when they put a seal in ice water to see what it did to his body and to see when the body would shutdown, but he never did. Kept a pretty much normal body temp, even though they kept adding ice. It was pretty crazy.:eek:
CarlosDJackal
03-09-09, 20:02
Thanks for posting this.
I have been hearing people starting to recommend tasers over firearms for self defense. My biggest issue is how do you train to use a taser? Shoot it at a target?
This video makes me even more wary.
Those kinds of people are idiots. The Taser is less "LESS-LETHAL" and falls under a different category than firearms. There is a reason why Law Enforcement Officers are trained in the Use of Force and the Force Continuum. It allows them to understandd where each tool falls under and when it should be applied.
There is no way I would ever exchange my firearm for a Tazer. These two items are no more interchangeable than are batons and OC sprays. They serve different purposes and have different effects.
As for the original video, I wonder if he could do the same thing if he did not know it was coming?
Based on my single experience being tased, when it was over it was over. It was like nothing had happened. I didn't even fall over, though I had the benefit of being told to get in a solid stance before the demo and this was with the last-generation (pre-26) Taser. I also got the wide barb spread of back pocket and shirt pocket (larger arc in the body = more "stunning power").
At least for the ride I took, I didn't think it hurt at all. It's a weird feeling not being able to move much, and at least for me time slowed down (felt like I was "in there" for about a minute). The only pain was the little burn marks it left on my nipple and ass.
The current "civilian" version, as I understand it, uses a weaker charge but a much longer cycle (30 seconds as opposed to 5). It gives the BG a harsh blast at first, then just keeps him toasty for the rest of the time. The whole concept is that you hit the BG with the taser, drop it on the ground, and run while he rides out the 30 seconds.
I haven't seen the civilian model in use so cannot comment beyond that.
I had pretty much the same experience. A friend had taken it the previous day and was urging me to do it.
I had time to go do it the next day. They said that you could take it in the chest or from the hip to the ankle. I asked which one is worse, they said the hip to ankle, due to the long area that is affected.
My friend described his experience as some of the worst pain he has experienced and he had halted it at around 3 seconds. I asked them to give the 5 seconds, so no matter what I said I couldnt chicken out :)
It was very, very unfomfortable, but wasnt the worst pain I have experienced. I also had a slight burn mark from it at the hip and some cramping in my lower leg.
After I had taken it, my friend of course had to do the 5 seconds as well..
http://www.aseutra.fi/english/product/Taser.wmv
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