View Full Version : Premier Optics
Does anyone have first hand experience with this product?
http://store.troyind.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=58
http://www.swfa.com/c-2701-premier-reticles-riflescopes.aspx
They are priced right up there with S&B and from reading it sounds to edge out S&B in terms of optics quality. I've only been able to find a couple of comparisons.
http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13693&PN=1
Parabellum9x19mm
03-01-09, 07:26
that's the most expensive optic i've never heard of.
I'm just wondering if its the Les Baer of scopes
I could buy 2 different Nightforce scopes for the price of this, my experience with NF has been extremely positive. I know I'm probably answering my own question.
Alot of the "super" high end stuff seems to either be either A. Crap the Crapper or B. Exotically stupendous for marginal gains over cheaper competing products.
Hard to say that one of these Premier scopes is worth 2x a NF. Also hard for me to say the same about S&B vs NF.
I feel myself slipping into NF fanboy mode so I'll stop there...
Optics are one of those areas where I always hear Calliope music in the background. Sometimes there are clowns with balloons...
It's probably not worth 2x a NF. However, Premier knows optics and was knowledgable enough to win a day optic contract for outfitting the USMC S&B scopes with their reticles.
They were also one of the only authorized Leupold warranty repair centers in the world that wasn't named Leupold. That is until Leupold screwed them over a bit, and they cut ties.
They have over 40 years in the optics business as I recall.
from another forum
The S&B scopes that were assembled by premier have earned the reputation as the least reliable S&B scopes ever made.
That's probably the main reason S&B dumped Premier as their US representation.
Premier has never fully recovered technically since the old man died and Leupold dropped them because they were no longer able to put Leupold scopes back together to satisfy Leupold's QC standards.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=156624&page=4&highlight=premiere
Unless Randall would like to come here and provide some sources, it would appear that he's revising history. If Leupold was so unhappy with Premier, why did they retain them until just after the father died??
Can anyone provide a source for the Schmidt & Bender reference? It was my understanding that S&B had a limited contract with them, and that the contract was fulfilled.
i don't really know anything. it's just this thread and the calguns thread were so coincidental and had such different reviews, i thought i'd cross reference a little.
i don't really know anything. it's just this thread and the calguns thread were so coincidental and had such different reviews, i thought i'd cross reference a little.
I think Premier had a 10 year, or longer, relationship with Leupold. The father dies, and Leupold launches their Custom Shop with reticle replacement, turret customizations, magnification swaps, etc. Then Leupold starts pulling supply from Premier, making it difficult for Premier to supply new optics with their reticles, magnification, and turret options.
Just off the top of my head, S&B had a contract with Premier for 100 scopes. A contract ending, and S&B "dumping them" don't seem to be the same thing.
Would love to hear someone else chime in...
Leupold could think of nothing new or original.
Premier had better and more intimate customer service. Then they designed the 2nd gen mil-dot system with half-mil hashes and additional ranging marks on the thick stadia. Made Leupold (correctly) look slow, ponderous, unimaginative, and unresponsive.
Leupold countered with their TMR reticle and (from my understanding -- not first-hand knowledge) cutting Premier off from OEM repair parts with little to no warning.
Mo_Zam_Beek
03-06-09, 00:04
If you are really interested go to the Hide and use "search"http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=82104&Number=894057#Post894057 that will get you started.
I don't own one and I have never seen one. I am interested in one but I would hold off until every unit has the same feel in the turrets and they get all the bugs worked out.
From what I have read, they hired pretty much most all of the important folks from S&B and they are producing a product that has image quality on par with S&B but for less $$. I like some of the features but prehaps the biggest is that it is American. I have S&B and I have heard it is a long wait if it ever has to go back.
Good luck
ETA to say for those that are really interested in some of the scuttlebutt behind why and how things went the way the did with Loopy and Premiere when Dick Thomas died or the course of events between Premiere and S&B search the Hide and you'll be able to piece it together.
On another note it is good to see any / all manufacturers trying to raise the bar. NF is making strides with a FFP but the price point puts in right there with USO / Premiere and I think you'll see many / most start to scratch their head. USO will build you whatever you want and their CS is second to none. Loopy - I want to support them b/c they are an OR company, but they have a hard enough time just making sure that each reticle is plumb, let alone listening to feedback and realizing that many out there want a FFP with 1/10 MIL adjustments. Then again they know who they are - they are producing for the masses and are really not set up, nor do they produce a high enough quality of product to compete with the boutique optics manufacturers. Then there is S&B and Hendsoldt....
Mo_Zam_Beek
03-06-09, 00:30
from another forum
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=156624&page=4&highlight=premiere
I think Randall maybe telling some tales.... there were some isolated reports of issues of 3-12x50s with MTC knobs that issues but I am not aware of any with DT knobs. Regardless, when one stacks up all of the S&Bs that Premiere converted 3-12s, 4-16s, 5-25s - I think there were very few problems. Alot of folks on the Hide own them and it has been extremely rare to read about one that went TU. NF also has a pretty good rep for being problem free and generally a good optic.
The thing that I have come to learn is before one should accept someone's claim of "this is really good" you personally need to field it in all kinds of light and conditions. Most folks really don't have much to gauge it against or just want to say it is good b/c they own it.
Good luck
AR15barrels
06-24-09, 13:24
Unless Randall would like to come here and provide some sources, it would appear that he's revising history. If Leupold was so unhappy with Premier, why did they retain them until just after the father died?
Leupold was happy with them UNTIL the old man died.
Once the old man died, that's when the QC problems started.
It seems that only the old man was really able to make it all work like it should.
get with bwyoda, he had a chance to get hands on with one at a course he went to. Ask him what he thought and what his instructors had to say about it.
I've compared this scope to S&B and NF, and its glass is the clearest I've ever found. The biggest difference can be seen around dusk -- with the Premier you could still see targets that were no longer visible with the NF in the shadows. I cannot emphasize how nice the glass is -- it is sourced from one of the top glass makers in Germany.
And S&B had a contract with the USMC to have their stuff assembled by Premier in order to avoid the importation tax -- send components to the US, have a US manufacturer put them together, and presto -- no 15-20% import tax on the entire scope. Then there was a shuffling around at the top levels of S&B and they decided to take all production internally -- I assume it wasn't helpful that Premier was working on producing a competitive scope.
Premier has some of the best former engineers from S&B working for them. In addition the scope was built directly using constant feedback from the military. It is bombproof, which contributes to the price. I talked to a former R&D guy from SOCOM and he said that for him, glass quality is not as important as ergonomics: can the scope take hitting a tree while you are running through a forest, can you submerge it in ice water to 100 feet, can you leave it in the rain for 5 days, etc, etc. The Heritage scope handles all that like champ. If that is not of concern to you, go cheaper; it's like a car -- you don't need the Aimpoint with NV settings if you don't use nightvision, and you don't need a Ferrari if you drive only to commute in Los Angeles traffic.... FYI -- I own two NFs and have a Premier on order. I'm not getting rid of the NFs -- they serve their purpose, and do it well.
Unless Randall would like to come here and provide some sources, it would appear that he's revising history. If Leupold was so unhappy with Premier, why did they retain them until just after the father died??
Can anyone provide a source for the Schmidt & Bender reference? It was my understanding that S&B had a limited contract with them, and that the contract was fulfilled.
Premier put the reticle in the M8541 Scout Sniper Day Scope, AKA the S&B Police Marksman LPII 3-12x50. They had a falling out, the details of which I am Jack's complete lack of caring beyond the fact that it was a pisser for us, because the scope was very well received and we needed to be able to replace them as attrition occurred. The squabble affected the warfighter, so my own anger is generally toward the situation, and not a vendor, since I don't know enough to know who to turn a gimlet eye to.
Anyhow, Premier stepped up and started making the things, though I know that some Japanese company is subcontracted for the glass. Not sure about the bodies.
What I do know is that we've started to get them, if only for testing, and I can tell you that having no need for tools to float the turrets is a godsend, and that you can practically pound in tent stakes with these things. Everything so far indicates that they are Costa-beard-tough and very able to hold zero after abuse.
It's a bit tough to turn the turrets to make adjustments, but that's likely a self-solving problem. Time will tell. Still waiting to see how they handle water infiltration, too, but I'm pretty confident that they are a couple of steps above the 1st and 2nd Gen SSDSs, which had gripes associated with them from Marines in the Fleet regarding how you had to be very careful dragging them through puddles. Unsat.
George Mac
06-26-09, 23:15
I shot the Premier at 15x with the mildot reticle next to a loopy 20x and my own NX with the MLR reticle. I prefer the NX MLR for a reticle but the quality of the Premier was more than noteworthy. I only put a few rounds down range with it and spent only about 10 min behind it. Fantastic overall impression and they will be getting my money from now on.
George Mac
06-27-09, 22:21
My rifle is in the background. A friend had just received a new rifle from Tactical Operations and we were testing some different glass on it.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/georgemac/Dsc_0024.jpg
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.