Had My S&W M&P Slide Milled For an MRD [Archive]

MadDog

03-03-09, 16:11

I sent my slide out to David Bowie of Bowie Tactical to have it milled to accept a Trijicon Optic without the need for a high profile bracket. Setting the Trijicon down into the slide brings the dot's height over bore much lower which makes target aquisition much faster. I have Aimpoints and Trijicons on all of my rifles, SBR's and my SBS so sighting with both eyes open is natural for me and the MRD's excell at that compared to open sights. Battery life on the Trijicon is at least one year left on 24/7 without the cover installed. It even has a rear sight notch which is the perfect height for the front sight just in case the battery does go dead at the wrong time. I picked up an S&W factory threaded barrel (not aftermarket) so now I need to save a little more coin for a 9mm suppressor. The height of the dot is perfect for suppressors.

MadDog :p

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/5223/mp9mm002.jpg

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/7287/mp9mm013.jpg

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/2048/mp9mm003.jpg

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/9206/mp9mm005.jpg

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/6731/mp9mm009.jpg

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/8402/mp9mm008.jpg

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/2269/mp9mm011.jpg

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/8370/mp9mm012.jpg

RD62

03-03-09, 16:53

That looks like a pretty kick ass setup!

-RD62

Detmongo

03-03-09, 16:56

i love it. good luck with it.:cool:

theJanitor

03-03-09, 17:11

any pics through the MRD? especially with the notch/front blade?

looks great from here.

decodeddiesel

03-03-09, 17:44

That is probably the coolest thing I have seen in a long time.

HARDONEM

03-03-09, 19:11

Major cool. :)

Mikey

03-03-09, 20:58

That's awesome.

What drop leg rig is that?

-Mike

Oscar 319

03-03-09, 21:01

Wow. I'll say it backwards, WOW.

Sam

03-03-09, 21:09

What drop leg rig is that?

-Mike

Looks like a Safariland 6004.

losbronces

03-03-09, 21:18

Very nice, what was the turnaround time for the work?

MadDog

03-03-09, 21:44

Mikey: the drop leg rig is in fact a Safariland 6004 that I had to modify with a dremmel to relieve an area for the Trijicon. You can see the optic cut-out in the last picture.

losbronces: turn around time was a little over a week.

MadDog :cool:

The Dumb Gun Collector

03-03-09, 22:48

That is sexy as Hell. That is the future, no doubt.

dirksterg30

03-04-09, 09:44

any pics through the MRD? especially with the notch/front blade?

looks great from here.

Very nice setup. I'd like to see the sight picture too.

Steve

03-04-09, 17:16

Bowie does great work i have one done by trijicon as a favor to me its great i have been running this set up for close to a year now

Bowie Tactical

03-04-09, 17:22

I normally can get this type of work out in under a month if it is a no refinish job. I tried to attach a pix with a window view. It's not a real good photo but it will show you what it co-witnesses like. This is my daily carry and SWAt mode.

2053

David Bowie
Bowie Tactical Concepts

YVK

03-04-09, 17:24

Please let us know how MRD holds up to recoil of the slide over a period of time.

Bowie Tactical

03-04-09, 17:30

VooDoo6Actual

03-04-09, 17:55

nice blaster.

Steve

03-04-09, 17:58

My mrd has been abused to end

it has been ran off of, car bumpers, shooting bench, target upright supports, and my kit more than i can count in training and has held zero i have yet to replace the sleepy time hood on the unit and its been almost a year now.

nickdrak

03-04-09, 18:08

Im sold!

Steve

03-04-09, 18:17

Nick it is absolute awesome kit and very fast you will love it

RogerinTPA

03-04-09, 20:59

Very nice set up Maddog. :cool: I think Grant has a similar set up. Have you had the chance to test the accuracy yet? What's the battery life on the trijicon?

Steve

03-04-09, 21:50

Very nice set up Maddog. :cool: I think Grant has a similar set up. Have you had the chance to test the accuracy yet? What's the battery life on the trijicon?

My battery life with the trijicon has been almost 1 year. non stop use and daily carry

Vinh

03-04-09, 22:32

How easily can be the emitter become occluded from dust, lint, etc, associated with everyday carry?

How well does the auto-adjusting illumination work with a weaponlight? Any washout issues?

Can the battery be changed without removing the sight completely or disturbing the zero?

Mark71

03-05-09, 01:26

That is awesome! I would like to eventually have that installed on one of my guns.

Stranger45

03-05-09, 06:37

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/8402/mp9mm008.jpg

Looks good, I might have to get one done for my old eyes.

Who makes the Kydex holster in this pix?

Thanks,

MadDog

03-05-09, 07:13

The holster is a Blade-Tech "batwing"

MadDog :cool:

rob_s

03-05-09, 13:00

Is this a standard service by Bowie? Turnaround time?

I've been thinking of buying both an M&P and one of those Trijicon optics, so it seems like a good chance to marry the two.

is the 8 MOA Trijicon MS03 the recommended solution here?

MadDog

03-05-09, 17:13

Rob S: The slide milling is a standard service of Bowie for $150. David says the turn-around time is slightly under a month but it only took him two weeks to do the job and get the slide back to me. It all depends on his work load and work schedule. I have 2 moa dots (various Aimpoints) on all my long guns so I wanted to keep it the same with this pistol. I hear that some people prefer the 8 moa for handguns but since I already had experience with the 2 moa on a handgun (my FN Five-seveN is set up this way) I figured I would leave well enough alone. I am going to use this setup for "dueling tree" matches as well as CCW and the plates are pretty small so the 2 moa is perfect for that as well.

MadDog :D

Bowie Tactical

03-06-09, 20:36

Just so no one gets chaffed when they call. Do to a price hike at the machine shop where I do the CNC work on the slides I have had to raise the Slide mill to $175. Sorry.

To answere one question i have carried the J-point set up for along time and have never had the diode blocked by dirt or dust. I carry mine to teach with, daily concealed carry and on SWAT.

David Bowie

mike240

03-07-09, 16:24

David

Can that be done with a Glock so that I can get an iron sight picture in case of dot failure, with a front post still short enough to fit in a Safariland SLS duty holster? I do not know if there is enough metal given the Glocks slide shape. Is the top of the slide then drilled and tapped after the mill cut to anchor the sight? I would then want to have it NP3ed after the mill work.

rob_s

03-07-09, 16:28

I asked Bowie the same question via email and he directed me to his picture page where I found this. I'm now trying to decide if I want to do a Glock 17 or an M&P 9mm.

http://www.bowietacticalconcepts.com/sitebuilder/images/glock_34_h-520x388.jpg

this photo has the caption

All J-Point milling on Glocks and S&W M&P's is done with all registration points properly milled into the slide. This allows for co-witness with front sight if needed.

http://www.bowietacticalconcepts.com/sitebuilder/images/M_P_mill-309x275.jpg

mike240

03-07-09, 16:36

I would like to do it to a Glock and get approval to do it as a test gun for the possible approval for duty carry. It was a matter of time before the product got good enough to make this a possible option for everyday LE carry. Maybe the time has come. I am a bit interested in the new RMR models too for this, though they weigh almost an ounce more, it should be no issue in regards to reliable operation of the pistol.

I would demand a backup sighting system for a work gun and would require that users qualify with irons and optic as we do with carbines now.

rob_s

03-07-09, 16:42

I think the weight difference is primarily due to the aluminum of the RMR vs. the polymer housing of the Jpoint.

The Dumb Gun Collector

03-07-09, 16:49

Have I mentioned how badass that is?

variablebinary

03-07-09, 17:04

Maddog, next time we go shooting, leave the reloads home :p

MadDog

03-07-09, 18:42

VB: Not to worry, I just picked up a few cases of factory 9mm so I won't have that "single shot" problem on our next outing.

MadDog :cool:

Buckshot TX

03-08-09, 16:10

I have been running this off and on for about 3.5 years now. I run this all the time now though. I have 4 guns set up like this. i have only had one go down. One has many thousands of rounds through it. All but one are J-Points. the other is the new Trijicon Red Dot.

David Bowie
Bowie Tactical Concepts.

Hi David,
I'm a multi M&P guy & I think I gotta get you to set up my #1. What are your comments on J-Point vs the two types of Trijicons re: ruggedness/reliability. Also, what size MOA dot is shown in the cowitness pic you posted?

Bowie Tactical

03-08-09, 19:41

I like the 8 minute dot it is what i use on all of mine. The J-Point and the trijicon Red Dot are the same sight. The Dr i do not like. It is a good sight but does not offer a rear sight back up. I have founs so far the lens in the J-Points to be a little clearer than that of the Trijicon. Trijicon I am told makes there own sight that is the versin of the J-Point. I was told it was a licensed product.

David Bowie

Steve

03-09-09, 09:52

The new version of trijicons sight is more robust and rugged

and the dot is very sharp and clear with there lens

that said i never had issues with my jpoint
but my trijicon has been beat to hell and back

Lumpy196

03-10-09, 12:53

Im sold!

Ditto.

Dan Goodwin

03-10-09, 15:03

Pretty gnarly! I read a Bob Pilgrim article more than a year ago about top end .mil teams working with MRD on pistols concept.

For David Bowie: what about SIG P229 series? I'm fixing to show the pics on this thread to our FAST Team commander.

tpd223

03-13-09, 16:31

If I could figure out a way to get a G17 with one of these sights in an ALS holster I would order one tomorrow.
Not sure if that is possible with how the holster works.

Ian

03-14-09, 01:45

That has to be a fast set up for multiple targets, have you noticed time differences after having the sight installed? Any quantifiable gains, or is it more of a 'feel' thing.

Dan Goodwin

06-10-09, 22:50

Anyone have their pistol done this way by David Bowie or other source? More pictures?

rob_s

06-11-09, 05:14

Anyone have their pistol done this way by David Bowie or other source? More pictures?
In my case good sense took over and I decided not to go this route. :D

I do still want to do the same thing on a Glock 17 though.

Citpitch02

01-27-10, 09:00

I know this post has been dormant for a while but I wanted to see how this has been working out for MadDog now that it's been over a year?

I also wanted to see if anybody has experience with the JP Pistol Adapters vice having the slide milled?

http://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPA-MP

Looks like you just place it into the rear sight groove and then you mount the JP/Trijicon to that. Decent alternative to having the slide milled?

Would you still be able to use the irons in the event that the dot goes down? Or would this mounting solution cause the sight to sit to high on the barrel?

Thanks as always gents!

bigghoss

01-27-10, 20:18

cool they make an adapter for p-series rugers. my p95 just might get a new life...

Falboy

01-28-10, 09:12

I wonder if this could be done to a SIG P226/ Seems just the thing for suppressed use. Also, ultimate night stand gun!

-Ace-

02-04-10, 00:38

Bob RI

02-04-10, 06:09

Years ago I had a G35 w/Optima sight. It worked really well but had no ability to utilize irons and was limited to being a range gun - it was really fast and a tackdriver. The new Trijicon sights appear to be very robust.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/mika1962/Glock/DSCN4004.jpg

Citpitch02

02-04-10, 13:43

Yeah Ace...after taking a bit of closer look at the adapter I think I've come to the same conclusion.

Thanks for the reply!

Now only if MadDog would let us now how this set-up has held up! :cool:

MadDog

02-06-10, 11:27

I am back everyone. To tell you the truth I forgot all about this post so I haven't posted in a while. It has been over a year since I mounted the Trijicon MRD on my M&P and I am very impressed. First of all it is still running on the original battery. I don't use the "sleepy time" cover so it is in effect running 24/7. I will probably change out the battery today just to make sure it doesn't go down at the worst time possible. I have been using this set up for CCW, 3-gun matches and HD. My pistol times for 3-gun are noticably better but I am not sure if it is the optic or that I have been practicing, but I can tell you sight picture acquisition is "much" faster with the MRD. If I had to do it over again I would go with the 8 moa dot instead of the 4 moa that I currently have. I believe my eyes could pick the dot up a micro-second faster if it was a little larger and since most of my shooting is 30 yards and under, the smaller dot is not an advantage. This optic has been banged around a lot between competition and CCW (I wear OWB holsters and sometimes crash into doorways and such) and has never lost zero or had problems of any kind. The lense does get dirty with clothing lint, dust, etc. but the dot is always very visible in all light conditions. The one change I would like to see Trijicon make is to switch to a glass lense. I had a piece of 9mm brass bounce off a baracade an hit the lense, putting a sizable nick in it that cannot be fixed. Light refracts off the nick and is noticable if you stare at it but if the MRD is used properly I don't even notice it and it has not been distracting. Even with the nick in the lense it still runs 100% and holds zero. Some have mentioned wanting to use a mounting base that replaces the rear sight so they do not have to permanently alter their slide. Those mounts work pretty well but you cannot take advantage of the open sight notch in the rear of the MRD. The beauty of David Bowie's mill work is that it puts the MRD much lower and closer to the center bore of the pistol as well as lining the rear sight notch with your standard front sights. I would however, like to see David write a CAD program so he can mill slides for the slightly larger Trijicon RMR optics. One of the RMR models utilizes both fiber optics and tritium (much like their ACOGS but on a smaller scale) so no batteries are required.

Well that's all for now,
MadDog :p

YVK

02-06-10, 11:45

MadDog, thanks for an update. There is one question that comes up regularly with discussions of MRDs on pistols: during rapid fire, do you loose track of a dot in recoil, or you are able to track it the same way one tracks a front sight?

Razorhunter

02-06-10, 12:24

Maddog,
In your very first post of this thread, back on pg 1, the 4th and 5th pics show what seems to be a leather holster for your M&P.
Is that right? If so, what holster is this exactly? Got more pics of the other side of it?
And is this a 9mm, .40, or .45 M&P???

I've always wanted to find a good M&P45 leather holster...

MadDog

02-06-10, 14:18

YVK: Unless your handgun is straped down to a bench you are going to get muzzle rise upon recoil. Under recoil you may be able to see the front sight of any pistol but you will loose your effective sight picture. Same thing with an MRD, but as soon as that muzzle comes back down you can pick up the red dot and I believe faster then you can acquire a proper sight picture with open sights.

Razorhunter: That holster was made by Kevin Manley of K&D Holsters (813-659-3456 www.kdholsters.com) and I believe cost me $95 delivered with the Stingray trim. I believe his holsters cost $65 or $75 "without" exotic trim. I do not have any pictures of the back (never thought anyone wanted to see anything but the front) of the holster. This one is made for a lefty (I admit it) and is for a 9mm but he can make you one for "any" of the M&P models as well as Glock.

MadDog :p

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/9206/mp9mm005.jpg

DJK

02-06-10, 15:23

We are all born right handed, only the good ones overcome it!!:D

From one lefty to another.

HES

02-06-10, 16:39

We are all born right handed, only the good ones overcome it!!:D

From one lefty to another.
Thanks for the line. I will remember to use it.

Shamdawg

02-07-10, 00:26

Thanks for the update. That is a great looking weapon.

bnanaphone

02-07-10, 15:30

After seeing this thread and David Bowie's guns, I am replacing my glock 35 with an M&P 9 Pro. Then I will get her set up just like this. I really likethe look and the concept.

I am ditching the G35 to consolidate my ammo selection and because the M&P is FAR more user-friendly to lefties.

Thanks Maddog and everybody else for the updates.

Falboy

02-12-10, 07:40

Uhmmm, MadDog.......we do need a pic. w/suppressor on it! I assume that's the reason for the threaded barrel.:D

Dano5326

07-23-10, 17:54

Anyone melted in one of the new insight MRD's?

rob_s

08-13-10, 07:51

Thought I'd bump this back up as yesterday I received, and put 150 rounds through, a Bowie M&P that has a Leupold Deltapoint (http://www.leupold.com/hunting-and-shooting/products/scopes/handgun-scopes/deltapoint-reflex-sight/) with the triangle reticule in it. 50 rounds of fam-fire at the static range and 100 rounds at an IPSC/USPSA match. It's growing on me.

Seraph

08-13-10, 08:21

My buddy, Phil, who's a pretty fair gunsmith, did this a few years ago, with a Glock 17 and a Glock 22. He dubbed the idea "Glockzilla." I thought he was nuts at the time, but it looks like he's vindicated now. I'm glad he doesn't read these forums, or else I'd have to hear about it. Now, I have to try this, without letting Phil know I'm doing it...

DMR

08-13-10, 10:42

Anyone melted in one of the new insight MRD's?

I have some Insight MRD's in for T&E and talked with Bowie about installing one on my M&P 45. He advised me that the body of the Insight unit is too high to allow for iron sights. To get a set to work he would need sights taller than the suppressor sights he has for the Trijicon version now.

As such he though they were not practical and I bought a slide cut for the Trijicons. Should be here today. If you are willing to drop supplimental irons then he can do them.

MadDog

08-13-10, 10:56

I have had a Trijicon MRD (8moa dot) milled into my M&P (David Bowie did the work) for the past three years. It is my daily carry gun and I am completely happy. I have one of the Insight MRDS on my Five-seveN and had one on my FN45 Tactical. The Insight sits way high and was not usable (co-witness) even with the very tall sights of the FN45 Tac. I switched it out for the Trijicon Dual Illumination RMR which gives a perfect co-witness. The RMR is much better then the Trij MRD that is on my M&P. David now mills slides for the RMR and if I had to do it all over again that is the way I would go. Go with the RMR as David mills a vertical sight mark on the back of the RMR which will work well with your front sight.

MadDog :dirol:

HES

08-13-10, 15:29

TAZ

08-13-10, 15:46

Looke very nice. Would love to see the lens miniaturized some more though.

For you guys using this as a CCW how well does it conceal? The lens seems gigantic on there and seems like it would print pretty bad.

rob_s

08-13-10, 16:23

Rob, what was your reasoning for going with the Deltapoint Vs. going with something else like the RMR?

It's what he had available to send me for the article. :cool:

We're working on a pretty short deadline and what I have is one of Bowie's personal guns for the article. There really wasn't time for him to make up a whole new gun on my prefferred platform (the Glock), get it to me, get enough rounds downrange to eval, and then get photos.

As it is I'm planning on shooting every competitive event I can find between now and the completion of the article. :D

bmg

11-07-10, 18:03

It's what he had available to send me for the article. :cool:

We're working on a pretty short deadline and what I have is one of Bowie's personal guns for the article. There really wasn't time for him to make up a whole new gun on my prefferred platform (the Glock), get it to me, get enough rounds downrange to eval, and then get photos.

As it is I'm planning on shooting every competitive event I can find between now and the completion of the article. :D

Any updates on how it's been working out for you?

davebee456

11-07-10, 23:24

you think i can get one put on my HkP7M8 ?
i am kidding i do have a glock 19 i could use this on though..
So bowie is the best one to have this operation?

Bowie Tactical

11-08-10, 16:29

I'll try to get a picture posted later but to answere a question i have milled in an insights MRDS on a couple M&P slides for Insights and one for myself. They are too tall in the rear to realistically use a back up sight. They would have to be pretty high. The sight works great though. I beat the one they sent me to T&E hard and it worked great. It is bright and clear. It is bigger than it appears to be when you get it on a slide. I can't suggest ever running a red dot without BUIS but if you were set on it then the MRDS would be fine.

David Bowie
Bowie Tactical

bmg

11-08-10, 17:21

For an RMR install on an M&P slide, is the metal disc under the rear sight that the striker block spring presses against still used? It seems like keeping it in the right place when installing the RMR could be a pain, and it seems like the spring could just press on the underside of the RMR without a problem. The cut for the RMR could be a bit deeper without the disc too. Just wondering.

My RMR RM02 arrives tomorrow, so I need to decide soon whether to go with my MP9 pro or a Glock 17.

Bowie Tactical

11-08-10, 18:13

Correct in the no disk idea. I mill the slides as deep as possible and do away with the disk for RDS mounting. On the Deltapoints i just tell folks to run a piece of electrical tape over the battery to keep the spring out of the battery connection juncture. Works just fine. This RMR and Deltapoint usage is off the charts. I have ran Red Dots on my handguns for about 7 years now and mounted about 20 to 30 in the past 5 or 6 years and about 70 to 80 this year alone. Defensive shooters are relizing the same benifits on the handgun as the rifle.

David Bowie
Bowie Tactical

Falboy

11-09-10, 07:02

Mr. Bowie, how do you like the Deltapoint compared to the RMR? I'm trying to decide betweent the two. Advantages, disadvantages? I've not seen pics of t a Delta point mounted on a milled out pistol yet, have any? Thanks. Could this be done to a Steyr M9? I've allready been led to believe it's a no-go on my SIGs......

rob_s

11-09-10, 07:15

Any updates on how it's been working out for you?

Pick up an upcoming issue of Combat Handguns! :D

In all seriousness, I became quite the fan in over 750 rounds fired for the T&E.

JohnN

11-09-10, 12:06

Pick up an upcoming issue of Combat Handguns! :D

In all seriousness, I became quite the fan in over 750 rounds fired for the T&E.

A fella at the range has a G19 and G23 set up with RMR's and they are great to shoot, not so much when drawing and trying to get fast hits. I am sure it takes a lot of repetitions in order to find that dot as quickly as conventional sights.

Would you be comfortable using a RDS on your carry pistol?

rob_s

11-09-10, 12:24

Would you be comfortable using a RDS on your carry pistol?

Yes, I would. But I can see how some might not. I think there are some training issues you'd want to address, like taking the time to get a correct presentation for the dot so that your hands bring the gun where it needs to be (I find it to be just a hair lower, obviously) and to learn to go straight to irons if the dot isn't there for some reason.

You need to develop the confidence to know that the dot should be there in order to be able to decide to go to the irons.

Bowie Tactical

11-09-10, 16:12

Both sights are great but i like the Deltapoint a little better the wider sight window and bigger triangle are very fast. As for the draw speed that will not be an issue with just a few rounds. I see no difference. This is another reason for the Deltapoint. the wider sight window allows the dot to be seen easier. i run it on all my working guns now from training to daily carry to SWAT. as for pictures see my web site pictures page for alot of them in the lower portion. www.bowietacticalconcepts.com

David Bowie