View Full Version : Air travel with handguns
My search foo on this one is weak, my apologies in advance if this has been hashed out before.
I may have a chance to travel for a handgun course this year that will require me to fly with my 2 handguns. Any experienced travelers out there? All insight and advice appreciated.
Spence
It's actually quite easy. (I'm assuming you're not an LEO who can carry onboard)
You need a hard-sided lockable "airline approved" case. In my experience, any sturdy hard-sided lockable case counts as "airline approved" but proceed at your own risk. It is perfectly OK to put this case inside a larger suitcase, which is what I normally do to hide & protect them better.
Show up at the airport with the pistols cleared and in the box already. Keep magazines separate. You need to check in at the counter, and you must declare the guns right away. The guns must go in your checked luggage. The counter clerk will give you a little form to fill out which goes in with the guns. The clerk may ask you to demonstrate that the guns are clear, but they aren't supposed to do that anymore because the bags all get x-rayed.
The bag will then go to TSA. Whenever possible, you should follow the bag to the TSA screener. If there is any question about what you've got in the case, they'll need to open it. Being there to give them the key/combination is a lot easier than having them grab you at security or at your gate.
If you are bringing ammo (11# max per FAA regs) it needs to be in a separate container and should be in the original factory boxes.
About a third of the time, you'll get a check-in clerk who doesn't know the rules. I've had clerks tell me guns weren't allowed; ammo wasn't allowed; no more than one gun per container; you can't put the gun case inside a larger case; you can't put the gun case and the ammo in the same suitcase; and all sorts of other silly (wrong) things. The best advice I can offer is to arrive an extra hour early so you have all the time you need to work out any misconceptions.
I've had some pretty miserable moments. There was the SeaTac clerk who decided to verify my Beretta 92G was clear by picking it up, pointing it at the crowd in line behind me, and pulling the trigger three times. Or the clerk in Phoenix who argued with me for thirty minutes about whether I could have "so many" guns in one piece of luggage; I ended up getting a free upgrade to first class from Phoenix to DC for that one. Had a clerk once who absolutely freaked out at the sight of the guns and made me wait while she found a manager to help me because she couldn't handle the anxiety of handling a suitcase with guns locked inside. Yadda yadda ...
theJanitor
03-05-09, 13:48
i understand that ammo, in the factory boxes are allowed. also that ammunition (for example, handloaded ammo which doesn't have a factory box) can be in a sealed container like:
http://www.midwayusa.com/mediasvr.dll/image?saleitemid=827791
but, someone also told me that they loaded their p-mags, put the top cover on, and the tsa accepted that as a "container"
can this be verified?
MarshallDodge
03-05-09, 14:10
When we flew to Florida last November on Southwest they were very cool about the whole thing. I had not flown with guns in a while so I was a little unnerved.
First thing I did was check SW airlines site to see what they allow.
We had our guns unloaded and in a hard case. I put the unloaded magazine(s) next to the gun in the case. We had four hanguns in seperate cases, with seperate locks. Two cases were put in each suitcase with 100 rounds of reloads that were stored in plastic MTM cases. We also had a small box of self defense ammo in one of the suitcases.
When we got to the check-in area the attendant asked us to fill out a small form for each case. The form was put into the case with the gun and the case was locked. We did not lock our suitcases and my understanding is that you need to use a TSA approved lock on the suitcase so that TSA's "master" key will fit it.
I am not sure what kind of lock you would need if it is a long-gun case.
They must have gone through my wife's luggage because there was some spilled ammo in her suitcase and they had sealed the one of the MTM cases with clear tape. If I were to fly again I would seal the cases myself to keep their hands out of it.
You definately want to check with the airline your flying on as well as the TSA. Some airlines have their own rules in addition to the TSA rules. As far as ammo, I've traveled on airlines that will let you have it loaded in mags as the "approved container" as long as the mags are in a mag pouch so the rounds are not visible.
I've flown a lot with guns and a variety of life support gear.
Locked hard case. Hard case can be in a soft suitcase. Declare it at the counter.
Ammo <11lbs. Factory boxes are not generally required, but have a backup plan just in case. The airports I fly through have not blinked at ammo in mags, in closed mag pouches.
If asked to open or handle the gun, decline in the interest of discretion, and request a supervisor and TSA.
Print copies of pertinent regs and carry them with you, for the airline and TSA.
In case of problem: Be calm. Be polite. Be professional. Don't argue. Ask for supervisors and complaint forms. Ask for the supervisor's supervisor.
When I pack my suitcase, I always put my life support gear in a backpack within the suitcase. On arrival at my destination, I can grab out the pack and either hit a bathroom or jump in a ride to rearm immediately.
Also worth noting: Dress conservatively, groom yourself properly, look and act like a professional. Looking and acting like a respectable citizen...and respectable gun owner...will go a long way toward being treated like one.
What airports are you flying through? That might help for further pertinents.
3CTactical
03-05-09, 16:57
Anybody have a recommendation on a small lockable hard case to go inside a suitcase other than one of those cheap plastic things?
Pelican makes great cases, pricey but worth it to me. FWIW I've had my pistol locked in the case with loaded magazines beside it and have never had a problem.
The more calm and relaxed you are the more the agent will be too. www.tsa.gov
Ammo <11lbs. Factory boxes are not generally required, but have a backup plan just in case. The airports I fly through have not blinked at ammo in mags, in closed mag pouches.
It varies by airline and airport. Many require "original factory boxes." As for loaded mags, it is not technically a violation of the FAA regs but I have been literally dragged into a security suite by three armed policemen after having loaded magazines (completely separate from any firearms) in my luggage.
Unless you have a really good reason to do otherwise, I'd strongly recommend keeping a few boxes left over from your next range session to hold any loose ammo you wanted to bring.
SeriousStudent
03-05-09, 21:14
.......
Print copies of pertinent regs and carry them with you, for the airline and TSA.
This advice is absolutely worth it's weight in platinum. An officer on another forum gave me this advice years ago, and it has proved so very true.
I print three copies of the TSA regs, and then three copies of the regs from the airline(s) I will be flying on. Handing them ink on paper seems to be a magic talisman that wards off all sorts of bureaucratic evil.
He also recommended having the phone number for the local BATFE office, in the cities you are flying through. If, Vishnu forbid, some baggage ape swipes your blaster, call the lads at the BATFE. Spectacular things are reputed to happen with airline security types when they arrive, muttering "federal felony" and dangling handcuffs. I have not had the joy of having a pistol stolen in an airport, but I take uber-precautions when flying with heat.
Best of luck to you.
I have been literally dragged into a security suite by three armed policemen after having loaded magazines (completely separate from any firearms) in my luggage.
How pathetic.:rolleyes:
Handing them ink on paper seems to be a magic talisman that wards off all sorts of bureaucratic evil.
He also recommended having the phone number for the local BATFE office, in the cities you are flying through. If, Vishnu forbid, some baggage ape swipes your blaster, call the lads at the BATFE. Spectacular things are reputed to happen with airline security types when they arrive, muttering "federal felony" and dangling handcuffs. I have not had the joy of having a pistol stolen in an airport, but I take uber-precautions when flying with heat.
Best of luck to you.
Love it!!
Anybody have a recommendation on a small lockable hard case to go inside a suitcase other than one of those cheap plastic things?
http://www.northstarcases.com/detail-T6000+Hard+Pistol+Case.aspx
I've used this case a few times now, good quality and price.
I keep a couple of these around. One for my pistol and another for my ammo. you can use the cable to attach them to your suitcase or car too!
http://www.center-of-mass.com/
Buckaroo
I second carrying a copy of both the TSA and your chosen airline regulations with you. Airline requirements can vary from TSA so you should study both.
If you have to recheck your bag with the firearm in it due to changing flights or airports, make sure your firearm is still in your bag and it is still locked. On a flight home I had to change from Alaska Airlines to a local commuter. Luckily, I checked my bag and found TSA had removed the lock on my pistol case someplace enroute to Alaska. I was able to find a replacement in an airport gift shop before getting on the next flight. If I had not checked I would have been in violation of TSA regs for checking an unlocked firearm.
Re: printouts of regs
FWIW, the clerk can call up the airline regs right there on her computer screen. In my experience, they don't care what the TSA rules are, they follow their airline regulations first and last.
The approach I've found to work best is simply telling them that I travel with guns multiple times per month. When a question comes up, I'm the first one to say, "Why don't you pull up the airline rules on your screen? I've had this happen before." The more you look like you know what you're doing, the less likely the airline drone is to give you a hard time. When you eventually reach that one nimrod who absolutely cannot be reasoned with, just ask her to call the TSA ground security chief so that you can get things resolved. I've had to do this once in all the years I've been flying, but it resulted in the free first class upgrade I mentioned earlier. :cool:
It varies by airline and airport. Many require "original factory boxes." As for loaded mags, it is not technically a violation of the FAA regs but I have been literally dragged into a security suite by three armed policemen after having loaded magazines (completely separate from any firearms) in my luggage.Unless you have a really good reason to do otherwise, I'd strongly recommend keeping a few boxes left over from your next range session to hold any loose ammo you wanted to bring.
That's what I do. I pack enough empty boxes to transfer mag-loaded ammo into if needed.
Familiarity with the regs of your particular airline is handy, too, but it's been some time since an airline employee has done anything other than a cursory look into a bag. Most head for one of two extremes: They want to get me to the TSA xray right away, or they want to chat about my wares.
Most of my flying is on NWA/Mesaba, United/SkyWest, with a smattering of others.
He also recommended having the phone number for the local BATFE office, in the cities you are flying through. If, Vishnu forbid, some baggage ape swipes your blaster, call the lads at the BATFE. Spectacular things are reputed to happen with airline security types when they arrive, muttering "federal felony" and dangling handcuffs. I have not had the joy of having a pistol stolen in an airport, but I take uber-precautions when flying with heat.
For most airports I regularly fly through, I have the numbers for the Ground Security Coordinator, a friendly POC at the airport PD (or local PD), and the TSA admin office. Handy.
Handy Link: http://safetravel.dot.gov/
Ammo specifically: http://safetravel.dot.gov/index_ammunition.html
TSA Guidance: http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm
I've never had an issue with any airlines flying yet. Twice I've been handed the 'firearm in the cabin form' by error. I mostly fly in/out of larger airports that probably see thousands of firearms a month.
I've been hassled once by TSA for having a 'non-declared' firearm in my luggage. The non-declared firearm was an AR upper, and an A2 stock. After talking to some LEO's and waiting for TSA to get their policies straight, I went on my way.
In my experience, printing out the airline and TSA regulations isn't a bad idea. However, in today's world with airport security being what it is, I wouldn't expect airline or TSA folks to care what forms and papers you happened to find on the internet. They will look it up themselves if they are unsure of the policy. Just make sure you know the rules ahead of time and are already in compliance mode.
The rules changed substantially after 9/11.
I've had exactly one bad TSA experience, and it was (not surprisingly) my fault. While down at Virginia Beach I picked up a SEAL's P226 slide because he wanted something engraved on it. Stuck the slide in my backpack and promptly forgot about it. A couple days later I had to fly from Dulles to New Hampshire for a factory visit. Took, of course, my backpack.
Made it from Dulles to NH no problem. On the return flight, though, at tiny little Manchester (NH) Airport, the security screener saw the slide and threw all the switches. Alarms went off, police rushed over yelling at everyone to stay where they were ("no one move your feet"). I was almost indignant because I forgot the slide was in the back. I told them it was probably just the huge battery pack for my computer. But nope. The slide had cut a hole through the inner lining of the backpack and snaked itself up in between the lining and the outer nylon. So -- yeah -- it looked like I was trying to hide it.
I explained the problem and explained that it wasn't a gun, just a gun part. Nonetheless, they confiscated it and told me I'd be contacted for a statement as a formal investigation was necessary. Swell. The TSA folks were nice enough to hold the airplane for about 20 minutes after scheduled take-off, though, which made me really popular when I finally boarded.
The TSA investigator who caught the case was very cool about the whole thing and sent the slide back to me overnight with an apology.
I no longer toss gun parts in anything I may use as a carry-on.
So now I always bring a stamped, addressed, padded envelope so that I can mail any offending items home.
I forgot to mention that. I, also, carry a SASE with sufficient postage to mail back anything TSA may hassle me about.
I used mine earlier this week. I deviated from my usual pre-flight rituals, checked my bags, but forgot a Spyderco Delica in my pocket. Without the SASE, I would've had to abandon the same knife they didn't blink an eye at pre-9/11.
USPS regs limit these to (13oz? 14oz?). It is enough, though, to mail a light, small gun parts, or other small items you forgot about.
MarshallDodge
03-06-09, 18:37
The rules changed substantially after 9/11.
I've had exactly one bad TSA experience, and it was (not surprisingly) my fault.
I nearly did the same thing the other day. I had put a 1911 barrel in my laptop bag to show a guy at the office. It was forgotten until about a week later I did a "pre-flight" check on my bag before leaving for the airport. I took it out so that I wouldn't have to deal with any questions. ;)
I have mailed my Benchmade back twice because I forgot to leave it in the car. :(
Years ago, pre-911, my sister gave me one of those bullet keychains with the chain attached at the primer pocket/flash hole. I had thrown my keys in the little tray with loose change, etc. and the security guy saw it. He told me I couldn't take it on with me so I politely asked to speak to his supervisor.
The supervisor said I couldn't take it because "I could scare someone with it". Yep, a FMJ 45ACP round with a chain shoved up it's keister is pretty scary. :rolleyes:
The rules changed substantially after 9/11.
I've had exactly one bad TSA experience, and it was (not surprisingly) my fault. While down at Virginia Beach I picked up a SEAL's P226 slide because he wanted something engraved on it. Stuck the slide in my backpack and promptly forgot about it. A couple days later I had to fly from Dulles to New Hampshire for a factory visit. Took, of course, my backpack.
Made it from Dulles to NH no problem. On the return flight, though, at tiny little Manchester (NH) Airport, the security screener saw the slide and threw all the switches. Alarms went off, police rushed over yelling at everyone to stay where they were ("no one move your feet"). I was almost indignant because I forgot the slide was in the back. I told them it was probably just the huge battery pack for my computer. But nope. The slide had cut a hole through the inner lining of the backpack and snaked itself up in between the lining and the outer nylon. So -- yeah -- it looked like I was trying to hide it.
I explained the problem and explained that it wasn't a gun, just a gun part. Nonetheless, they confiscated it and told me I'd be contacted for a statement as a formal investigation was necessary. Swell. The TSA folks were nice enough to hold the airplane for about 20 minutes after scheduled take-off, though, which made me really popular when I finally boarded.
The TSA investigator who caught the case was very cool about the whole thing and sent the slide back to me overnight with an apology.
I no longer toss gun parts in anything I may use as a carry-on.
I did something similar, but with drastically different results. I had went to the range one day and at the end I had some loose ammo and a mag in my coat pocket that had not gotten shot(it was winter). The coat was quite heavy and the loose and the mag were on opposite sides that balanced out. Well a few months went by and I went to Colorado for some spring skiing. I grabbed my heavy coat and kept it for a carry on since it would most likely be cold when I got off the plane. The screener freaked when my coat went through the x-ray machine, and called some body else over they looked at the screen and then at me. I had no idea why, then for some reason they just let it go and did nothing. I later figured out why they freaked when I was on the plane. Needless to say I fixed the situation before the return flight
I once forgot about sometimes having to go through sniffer machines. Of the two times I've had it happen, one of those times I'd transferred a pouch from my armor, the one that I used for my breaching kit, onto my backpack. Since I'd just attended a breacher's course, it positively reeked of substances that TSA looks upon...unfavorably. Maybe not to you or I, but the machines picked it up. It elicited a rather energetic response. Good thing I was traveling on orders to attend that course, else I still might be stuck at San Diego.
I have a case specifically for firearms, one that's more or less square. A long gun case basically screams THERE'S GUNS IN HERE, and I don't trust the monkies employed by baggage handling any more than I do clergy, which is to say not at all. It's big enough that I can break down 2 carbines with SL-3 gear and ammo,
In an effort to further disguise it, I made a stencil that says "Geological Samples," and spray-painted it on each side. What's more worthless than rocks, right? They still clap stickers identifying the box as containing firearms, so I have no way of telling if that's helped keep the tossers from swiping my boomsticks other than the fact that it hasn't happened. Yet.
I know, I know, sample size of one, right? :p
My search foo on this one is weak, my apologies in advance if this has been hashed out before.
I may have a chance to travel for a handgun course this year that will require me to fly with my 2 handguns. Any experienced travelers out there? All insight and advice appreciated.
Spence
TSA Regs right here. Also check the airlines web site.
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm
Until that day,
Darkop
3CTactical
06-10-09, 10:16
Just a note on my experience flying out of Sky Harbor in Phoenix today:
I just easily went through security with a Glock 27, loaded 9 round mag, 3 spare loaded G22 mags and the bullet I normally keep chambered all in one Pelican case with custom cut foam for each of the above mentioned items. I'm flying US Airways and when I got to the counter, I declared my firearm to the ticketing agent, and she just asked if it was unloaded, and if the ammunition was in its original factory packaging. I told her that the ammo was loaded in the magazines in the same locked case as the firearm but it was all in a custom fit foam insert inside the hard case which complies with the TSA regulations that I also had a printed copy of. She said no problem, it sounds like you know what you're doing, gave me the slip to sign and insert in to the firearms case. She then walked me over to the TSA screening area and waited with me to make sure the bag went through x-ray ok. TSA put it through the machine, and it popped out, no questions asked.
Just thought you all might like to know, since I had my ammo loaded in my mags inside the same case as the firearm which is a little different than some of you have done here. I'll have to post a follow up after I go through security on my way back. I'll be going out of State College, PA - a much smaller airport than PHX.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.