View Full Version : Nuclear Courier
Was wondering if anyone here works in this field. Or knows of someone who does. Planning on getting into the program and looking for any feedback.
Thanks
Outlander Systems
03-05-09, 21:07
I don't know terribly too much, as I only occasionally work with radioactive/nuclear materials.
I know that, primarily, the regulatory code that deals with transportation of nuclear materials is Code of Federal Regulations number 42, commonly abbreviated as "CFR 42".
You should look into the NRC codes, regulating radioactive items and the transport thereof.
I'm not a courier; that being said, any, and I mean any, time a nuclear device is transferred, moved, budged, nudged, etc., you will be required to have a dated bill of lading, copies of your firm's licenses, etc. There's always an ungodly amount of paperwork that must be present at all times.
Posting, or as I call it, advertising, on the transport vehicle that nuclear materials are present is no longer required for security purposes.
You'll need to get a certification of some kind, depending on what type of materials you'll be working with/transporting. Usually these are given through training programs offered through your employer.
Most radioactive materials are housed in a manner that limits your exposure. I believe the yearly permissable dose is 5,000 millirems, something you'll probably never be exposed to, even in a lifetime as a courier, due to a lack of direct exposure. You'll most likely get a film-strip badge that monitors your exposure monthly.
As I've stated, I'm not a courier, but the regualtory codes, IIRC, are pretty much universal, in regards to the transport of radiological devices.
The question he is asking was in regards to the federal agents that make up the security detail for the transportation of nuclear materials and the various components of the nuclear field, both weapons and power plant needs. Also the security of our various nuclear facilities.
Outlander Systems
03-05-09, 21:56
My bad, broski.
My experience lies only in the private sector.
I assume you've seen these links before.
https://fmt.kcp.com/OSTfederalagent/
http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=9308929
What would you like to know?
The couriers are Federal Agents, but do not enforce any laws outside of DOE property. They do not carry outside of their duties.
The course lasts about 6 months, and you won't make much money during it, but afterwards you can rack up some road time.
They do not protect fixed sites, that is handled by contractors, but they maintain similar standards, and clearances.
You will need to be able to be granted a clearance thru DOE, and be certified in the HRP program. If you have any history of drug use, weapons violations, vehicle accidents, drinking or DUI's, etc it will make it very difficult. You will need to pass a physical and psychological exam.
You will need to get a CDL, its part of the 6 month program.
What else?
BTW, fuel for a nuclear reactor the generates power for delivery to the grid, is not in the same category as Special Nuclear Material, category 1 and 2. It does not require the same level of protection, and the couriers do not transport it.
Bob
Nuclear power plant fuel is not activated until it is set into the reactor. It ships into here on regular tractor trailers... there is no security force following it or anything crazy.
I work for a nuclear power plant. I'm setting about 200 yards from the reactor right now :]
HowardCohodas
03-06-09, 09:00
Nuclear power plant fuel is not activated until it is set into the reactor. It ships into here on regular tractor trailers... there is no security force following it or anything crazy.
I work for a nuclear power plant. I'm setting about 200 yards from the reactor right now :]
Activated?
It comes in not yet bombarded. Once it is loaded into the core and lowered it gets bombarded by the other fuel. Fuel rod changes are not done in mass, its a slow rotation of the oldest rods. So anyways, when the fuel comes in new it is giving off radiation, but nothing to write home about. Once it goes into the core and gets hit with massive electrons it goes crazy and that is how the fuel gets turned on.... in VERY simple terms.
It's like your wife... you have to excite it before it gets all hot and wild.
HowardCohodas
03-06-09, 09:12
It comes in not yet bombarded. Once it is loaded into the core and lowered it gets bombarded by the other fuel. Fuel rod changes are not done in mass, its a slow rotation of the oldest rods. So anyways, when the fuel comes in new it is giving off radiation, but nothing to write home about. Once it goes into the core and gets hit with massive electrons it goes crazy and that is how the fuel gets turned on.... in VERY simple terms.
Sorry dude! Not a very good explanation of the physics or the process. Besides the fact that neutrons do the deed, not electrons, you have some other misunderstandings in your discussion.
BTW, I'm not a nuclear engineer, but I was in the control room of TMI 1 while it was being commissioned and obviously before the meltdown. Crawled through the reactor containment vessel of TMI 2 to debug some equipment I was working on. I don't think I want to go back to either since the meltdown. :eek:
Then you know what it does and that the fuel needs excited to get goin.
I am the NDE dept, I look at welds. I don't get involved with operations, I am engineering/technical services.
I just know that the fuel comes in soon on a tractor trailer (Last week I MT'ed the forks on the fork lift that will moving it) and the fuel will be staged for insertion. I know that after insertion the surrounding fuel will activate the new rods. Then we get pay checks. Big ones.
I am no scientist myself! But I slept at a holiday inn last year. Once. Well, it was a Holiday Inn Express. Does that count?
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-06-09, 11:27
Once it goes into the core and gets hit with massive electrons it goes crazy and that is how the fuel gets turned on....
It's like your wife... you have to excite it before it gets all hot and wild.
Sorry dude! Not a very good explanation of the physics or the process. Besides the fact that neutrons do the deed, not electrons, you have some other misunderstandings in your discussion.
That's my problem, I've been using electrons on her when I need bigger neutrons.
HowardCohodas
03-06-09, 11:56
Then you know what it does and that the fuel needs excited to get goin.
I hope I'm not boring everyone with this. If I am either publicly or privately let me know.
Uranium is always giving off neutrons. Some of them are captured by other uranium atoms so that they induce a fission which gives off neutrons. The trick is to create the density of neutrons (amount and speed) capable of being captured to create enough heat to be useful. You take this too far and you have a meltdown. You take this to the extreme and of course you have a bomb. The architecture of the reactor does not permit the density required for a bomb, but we know from experience that, if mismanaged, they can produce a meltdown.
Surrounding rods help create fission in the new rods and the new rods help create fission in the older rods. The difference is that the older rods accumulate fission products that are more radioactive and more dangerous to humans. One of which is plutonium. That's why new rods have different transport requirements than used rods. That's why you have cooling pools to store the old rods and you don't need one for the new rods.
I have never heard of the term activation related to fuel rods. Perhaps "activation" refers to the creation of these more lethal byproducts and not their heat generation properties.
sniperfrog
03-06-09, 14:04
Was wondering if anyone here works in this field. Or knows of someone who does. Planning on getting into the program and looking for any feedback.
Thanks
I'm a security officer at a DOE sight. The courriers or "agents" as they liked to be called, drive the big rigs and generally make the majority of their money when they're on the road. I think they top out at GS 10 but I'm not sure on that. We actually make really good money protecting the facility but it comes from working alot of overtime. DOE is notorious for hiring a bunch of people and then a few years later, laying off a bunch. This usually happens when a Democrap takes office. I know the courriers have had layoffs too so it's something to be aware of if you want to give up a career for this one.
I'm a security officer at a DOE sight. The courriers or "agents" as they liked to be called, drive the big rigs and generally make the majority of their money when they're on the road. I think they top out at GS 10 but I'm not sure on that. We actually make really good money protecting the facility but it comes from working alot of overtime. DOE is notorious for hiring a bunch of people and then a few years later, laying off a bunch. This usually happens when a Democrap takes office. I know the courriers have had layoffs too so it's something to be aware of if you want to give up a career for this one.
OST Agents (Couriers) have never had a layoff yet. Can't get enough people to stick with the rough travel schedule. Best job I ever had! Best firearms and fireams training bar none (I've attended numerous local, state, and federal firearms training events) and the equipment is top notch. It is the best single person's job(person, cause we have one female).
OST Agents (Couriers) have never had a layoff yet. Can't get enough people to stick with the rough travel schedule. Best job I ever had! Best firearms and fireams training bar none (I've attended numerous local, state, and federal firearms training events) and the equipment is top notch. It is the best single person's job(person, cause we have one female).
Didn't she quit?
Bob
I'm a security officer at a DOE sight. The courriers or "agents" as they liked to be called, drive the big rigs and generally make the majority of their money when they're on the road. I think they top out at GS 10 but I'm not sure on that. We actually make really good money protecting the facility but it comes from working alot of overtime. DOE is notorious for hiring a bunch of people and then a few years later, laying off a bunch. This usually happens when a Democrap takes office. I know the courriers have had layoffs too so it's something to be aware of if you want to give up a career for this one.
Which site? Headin to SPOTC this year?
Couriers aren't on the GS schedule anymore.
Bob
As to all the Nuclear reactor stuff...its still not the same stuff in a bomb, even after it been spent. It needs quite abit of further processing to be "weapons grade", it does not require the same level of protection. And DOE couriers don't have anything to do with it, as far as I know.
One of the projects goin on in DOE right now, is re-processing SNM into fuel. They call it burning it down.
Bob
HowardCohodas
03-06-09, 18:50
Nuclear Materials Courier job listings. I've found this job search engine one of the best.
http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=Nuclear+Materials+Courier&l=
HowardCohodas
03-06-09, 19:06
As to all the Nuclear reactor stuff...its still not the same stuff in a bomb, even after it been spent.
Bob
Yes it is, sort of. Enrichment is the process of increasing the density of the fissionable isotope of uranium relative to the non fissionable isotope. Density, in my remarks covers a host of nuclear physics concepts. I did not mean to imply the ratio of fissionable to non fissionable material used in the reactor could achieve the density required for a nuclear bomb.
Spent fuel is a vague concept. Generally it means no longer useful for producing power efficiently in a reactor of a given technology. Yet it may still contain considerable fissionable uranium. However the concentration is reduced as it is used up and the rods become polluted by the byproducts of fission. One of the byproducts is plutonium, which is a fissionable material suitable for reactors or bombs. Some reactors produce more, some less depending on the reactor technology.
right now :]
Is that a computer smile after you have been around a reactor too long;)
Fuel rod changes are not done in mass, its a slow rotation of the oldest rods. .
Wasn't changing them in mass one of the problems at Chernobyl?
HowardCohodas
03-06-09, 19:44
Wasn't changing them in mass one of the problems at Chernobyl?
I had to travel to Europe shortly after Chernobyl went wild. At the time, hijacking was a popular Palestinian sport and my wife was concerned. I told her that the purpose of hijacking was to capture the headlines. Since Chernobyl would continue to drown out most other news for a while, it was unlikely I would be hijacked.
When I returned I told her the good news was I was not hijacked. The bad news was I now glowed in the dark. :eek:
Wasn't changing them in mass one of the problems at Chernobyl?
they werent changing fuel at chernobyl, they were testing an emergency shutoff system.. a series of mishaps led to some misunderstandings which caused a miscalculation and temporary fuel contamination which decreased power, so they pulled out all the control rods to increase power, the contaminate burned up, and in a split second they had a meltdown
Well, it's official: people on this site have now demonstrated that they do, in fact, know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING. Nuclear physics was the one topic we hadn't covered until now. But we can finally check that block too.
Screw sleeping in a Holiday Inn. I spent 2 hours lurking on M4Carbine.net! :D
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-06-09, 20:23
Screw sleeping in a Holiday Inn. I spent 2 hours lurking on M4Carbine.net! :D
Yea, but M4C doesn't have the cinamon rolls in the morning.
Yea, but M4C doesn't have the cinamon rolls in the morning.
Just because we don't share them with you doesn't mean there are none.
Well, it's official: people on this site have now demonstrated that they do, in fact, know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING. Nuclear physics was the one topic we hadn't covered until now. But we can finally check that block too.
Screw sleeping in a Holiday Inn. I spent 2 hours lurking on M4Carbine.net! :D
Isn't there a rocket scientist here somewhere, too? Someone who worked for MT, Rockwell, or something like that?
HowardCohodas
03-07-09, 02:04
Isn't there a rocket scientist here somewhere, too? Someone who worked for MT, Rockwell, or something like that?
Does it count that I did some consulting at the EAFB rocket test stand facility and got wasted in Palmdale? That was in the late 1960's. Somewhere I think I still have the photograph I took with my Minox of the sign at the base entrance that starts with the words "Do Not Photograph or Sketch..." Single crystal X-ray diffractometry was the topic.
Yes it is, sort of. Enrichment is the process of increasing the density of the fissionable isotope of uranium relative to the non fissionable isotope. Density, in my remarks covers a host of nuclear physics concepts. I did not mean to imply the ratio of fissionable to non fissionable material used in the reactor could achieve the density required for a nuclear bomb.
Spent fuel is a vague concept. Generally it means no longer useful for producing power efficiently in a reactor of a given technology. Yet it may still contain considerable fissionable uranium. However the concentration is reduced as it is used up and the rods become polluted by the byproducts of fission. One of the byproducts is plutonium, which is a fissionable material suitable for reactors or bombs. Some reactors produce more, some less depending on the reactor technology.
Check out the brain on Howard.....if ya want I can tap into a number of DOE nuclear guys, I don't know how it works I just protect it.
Bottom line, reactor fuel is not classified as category 1 or 2 SNM by DOE, and it does not require the same level of protection.
I believe it has to be enriched in a specific isotope(283?).
As to the smarts around here, its pretty obvious, and the best part is how that knowledge is imparted. Its nice to have such a wide breadth of experience.
Aubrey, who posts here on occasion, is an engineer with Lockheed Martin, working on the Joint Strike Fighter, one smart guy right there.
Bob
Didn't she quit?
Bob
One quit about 20yrs ago, another came on about 6-7 years ago she is still here, another came on about 3 yrs ago and she quit.
One quit about 20yrs ago, another came on about 6-7 years ago she is still here, another came on about 3 yrs ago and she quit.
The last one, is probably the one I'm thinking of.
A very good friend of mine is SRF out of ABQ, he mentioned it. I may re-apply myself, I understand they can wave the age requirement with VA points.
Bob
Roger that! never met her, former SPO I heard. SRF is a sweetheart deal! I was in the first class and did 4yrs SRF. My wife hated it cause I loved to go to work. Always thought of it like playing war with your friends growing up but now someone else buys your toys and you get paid to play with them.
sniperfrog
03-09-09, 18:24
OST Agents (Couriers) have never had a layoff yet. Can't get enough people to stick with the rough travel schedule. Best job I ever had! Best firearms and fireams training bar none (I've attended numerous local, state, and federal firearms training events) and the equipment is top notch. It is the best single person's job(person, cause we have one female).
Actually during the Clinton years the OST guys here in Oak Ridge did have a layoff but all those guys eventually got there jobs back. Your right about the road time being a tough schedule. I know the guys here are on the road quite a bit. I looked into it but i don't know if the wife would have liked that schedule. At least now I'm home every day.
Negative, no one was laid off they were asked to relocate to Amarillo or ALBQ. One person refused and he resigned but was hired back again a couple of years later when the work load increased at OR. The work load has always been steady out west.
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