View Full Version : Cd or S&W
I am going to a gun show this weekend. I am thinking about another AR15.They never have any LMT's there, but last time they had Charles Dailey and S&W. Between the two which one would you choose and why?
Cagemonkey
03-09-09, 19:50
Both are good, but CD has the advantage of a 1/7" twist and a 4150 barrel vs 4140 chrome moly.
The barrel and twist is why I went with CDD. Plus I like the under dog if they put out a quality product.
I am impressed by the S&W quality although some specs one the CDD are nicer. Either is a good call I say. In the end I'd go S&W though. Later,
S&W RELIABILITY/CUSTOMER SERVICE.
I have a Daly M4LE and a S&W MP15. If I was buying a new rifle tomorrow, I'd take the Daly. They took their time and did their research to see what shooters wanted before they began producing the rifles.
I've had no issues with my S&W, but I have more confidence in the higher quality materials used in the Daly...barrel, receiver extension, etc. Not to mention the simple details such as properly staked gas keys and castle nuts. Sure, I can do that myself in just a few minutes...but I shouldn't have to. It's those kinds of details that separate the good rifles from the great ones.
SwatDawg15
03-10-09, 02:32
I have a Daly M4LE and a S&W MP15. If I was buying a new rifle tomorrow, I'd take the Daly. They took their time and did their research to see what shooters wanted before they began producing the rifles.
I've had no issues with my S&W, but I have more confidence in the higher quality materials used in the Daly...barrel, receiver extension, etc. Not to mention the simple details such as properly staked gas keys and castle nuts. Sure, I can do that myself in just a few minutes...but I shouldn't have to. It's those kinds of details that separate the good rifles from the great ones.
S&W does stake the gas keys and castle nut. They also ship with a M16 BCG that has an MPI bolt that is MPT, whereas CD dont. The CD has the better barrel no doubt, but they dont HP test it, and neither does S&W.
I guess its a trade off between the two, however the better barrel will not do a bit of good if the BCG happens to have an issue. Its not likely, but still worth say'n. Ill stick with my S&W. YMMV
They also ship with a M16 BCG that has an MPI bolt that is MPT, whereas CD dont.
Are you sure of that? The 15A I bought in 2008 came with a semiauto bolt carrier, but the firing pin was shrouded. I have head other reports of this as well.
Edited to add: But I would not hesitate to buy either the CD or the S&W, and price would be my determining factor.
30 cal slut
03-10-09, 06:26
if you're asking me, i'd get one of each.
S&W does stake the gas keys and castle nut. They also ship with a M16 BCG that has an MPI bolt that is MPT, whereas CD dont.
Guess mine was built on a Friday last year. No gas key or castle nut staking on my S&W and it came with a semi-auto carrier.
The other thing I would consider is that I think the S&W would be easier to sell / have better resale value.
I don't know about that resale thing.... the Charles Daly Defense rifles are gaining respect by the day. One note to the OP, is the CDD rifle the D-M4 or the D-M4LE? I have the non LE model, but I know that that the guys above are comparing to the LE only.
What kind of price did you see on the CDD compared to the SW?
If the CDD were priced better, I would not hesitate. I love my CDD D-M4.
Had the LE been available I would have gotten it, but last year whe I found this one, it was a choice between a CDD and a Bushmaster.... so really there was no choice.
Guess mine was built on a Friday last year. No gas key or castle nut staking on my S&W and it came with a semi-auto carrier.
I've never seen a M&P15 that didn't have its gas keys staked, nor its castle nut staked.
Call them up and ask about it...
I've never seen a M&P15 that didn't have its gas keys staked, nor its castle nut staked.
Call them up and ask about it...
This was 6 months ago. Staking the gas key and castle nut took less time than a phone call. And I certainly wouldn't return a rifle to the mfg for such a menial task. Just annoying that some companies choose to skip these steps in the first place.
Just annoying that some companies choose to skip these steps in the first place.
You should have inspected it when you picked it up at your FFL. Mine was properly staked.
You should have inspected it when you picked it up at your FFL. Mine was properly staked.
I did. That's when I found it wasn't staked. After waiting for 7 weeks to get the rifle from S&W, I certainly wasn't going to send it back. Again, it's a trivial task to do this...even with basic tools. I was simply annoyed that something so simple was neglected at the factory, even if it was the exception to the rule. It's not like S&W is the only company who has been guilty of this. In fact, the list of manufacturers who actually pay attention to these details is much shorter than the list of manufacturers who don't. That's why I keep a MOACKS and a center punch in my AR tool box. After 20yrs of buying AR's, I'm used to doing these things myself.
It's a pleasant surprise when I find an AR (other than Colt, LMT and KAC) that's properly setup when I open the box.
After waiting for 7 weeks to get the rifle from S&W, I certainly wasn't going to send it back. Again, it's a trivial task to do this...even with basic tools.
I hear ya! And yes, it is easy to do yourself.
flyboy1788
03-10-09, 16:38
I did a lot of research and went with an M&P15A. This was a month or two before CD started making ARs though. I felt that the smith came very nicely equipped. Aside from the 4140 barrel it is very comparable to the higer end guns. From what I hear, they now come with m4 feedramps even.(if that matters). I especially liked the fact that it came equipped with a troy folding rear sight on there. Im sure the CDs are top notch as well, but I have not held/seen one first hand so I cannot comment on those. But if you go the CD route, make note that the most Mil-Spec one is the CD M4LE model. This I believe is the only CD model that uses mil-spec barrel steel among other nice features. Someone correct me if Im wrong on that btw.
Speaking of CDD, where did they go? I clicked the link at the top of the page and went nowhere. I tried Google and click on those links and went nowhere as well.
I was going to check CCD's warranty as I couldn't remember if it was lifetime or not. M&P15s have a 1 year warranty (handguns are lifetime) if that matters. I wouldn't and didn't let that stop me from buying one.
SwatDawg15
03-10-09, 18:48
Are you sure of that? The 15A I bought in 2008 came with a semiauto bolt carrier, but the firing pin was shrouded. I have head other reports of this as well.
Edited to add: But I would not hesitate to buy either the CD or the S&W, and price would be my determining factor.
The several I saw in a gun shop were M16 carriers and the the gas key and castle nut was staked. I have an early model 0966* and it cae with a semi auto CMT BCG. It was staked, CMT style, which is not what I would call properly. The castle nut was also staked in three places. I just went and looked back on the chart and it does show S&W's shipping with a M16 BCG that is properly staked.
Are you sure the rifle you bought was not NOS? (New Old Stock)
Speaking of CDD, where did they go? I clicked the link at the top of the page and went nowhere. I tried Google and click on those links and went nowhere as well.
I was going to check CCD's warranty as I couldn't remember if it was lifetime or not. M&P15s have a 1 year warranty (handguns are lifetime) if that matters. I wouldn't and didn't let that stop me from buying one.
Charles Daly Defense rifles are lifetime warranty. That was one thing that made me happy in my choice over the Bushmaster that was on the wall beside it. BM has a 1 year warranty.
The webpage got broken while they were updating it and the guy that does the code is fixing it. They will get the site fixed soon!
In the interim, you can call them:
Charles Daly Defense
PO Box 6625
Harrisburg, PA 17112-0625
Toll-Free: 866-DalyGun
Fax: 717-540-8567
I dont own a S&W, only shot a friends M&P15. Nice piece for sure but I thought finish was alot nicer on my gun. I have a CDD DM4S with some goodies, so I just wanted to add another "Im pleased with my CD rifle." That is all.
I just went and looked back on the chart and it does show S&W's shipping with a M16 BCG that is properly staked.
Yeah, that is what it says but I have yet to see one with a M16 BCG.
The smith has the nicest finish i have saw on an m4. Most other models looks cheap.
meat&potatoes
03-10-09, 23:30
I own the D-M4 and I have about 500 rnds thru it with no problems. Attention to detail on this rifle. Brother in Law has the S/W and it also is a fine rifle. Of course I will be partial to the D-M4 NO problems what so ever with it so far. For the $$$ it should be considerd a dam good prospect for a SHTF rifle. My next choice between some other un named rifles, I would consider the S/W for the $$$.
Highway 55
03-11-09, 16:00
Are you sure of that? The 15A I bought in 2008 came with a semiauto bolt carrier, but the firing pin was shrouded. I have head other reports of this as well.
+1. My 15A came with an enhanced AR15 carrier. Ser. # 82XXX
I was also debating between S&W and CD when I bought my rifle. No dealers in my area stocked CDD at the time, they do stock S&W, Bushmaster, Armalite, DPMS, etc, etc, etc... Easy Decision.
The DM4LE does have a better barrel. For my purposes, the barrel on the S&W is a reasonable sacrifice. I will have a spec barrel installed when I burn this one out. :cool:
The other thing I would consider is that I think the S&W would be easier to sell / have better resale value.
who the hell wants to sell their rifle???
crusader377
03-11-09, 19:20
I looked at both CD and S&W before I purchased my CD M4LE. I bought the CD M4LE mainly because of the better barrel and the slightly better finish. If I was ranking them I would rate the CD M4LE slightly higher than the S&W and the regular CD M4 equal to the S&W. I think the S&W is an excellent rifle however, and I would be more than happy to own one if I wasn't able to purchase the M4LE. I have had the privilege to help several family members and friends purchase ARs and I have steered them to CDs and S&Ws because I think both rifles are great values for the money. I think your decision largely boils down to price and I would buy which ever one is more affordable.
If the twist rate matters to you, then you can base your decision on that - but don't base it on the type of material - the S&W has 4140, and the CD is 4150, but they are both chrome lined, so neither of them are going to fail - if it was a choice between the two without chrome lining, that would be different - but trust me, you aren't going to wear out a chrome lined 4140CM barrel if it's taken care of, the 4150 is just harder and more brittle, but IMHO is NOT necessary for a semi-auto only rifle.
Also, don't think that just because the S&W is a 1/9" that it won't shoot longer/heavier bullets, my 15T measures out around an actual 1/8.8", and works best on 69gr. Sierra Matchkings and 68gr. Hornady BTHP Match bullets, but it still gets right around 1 MOA shooting 75gr. Hornady BTHP's, it stabilizes them just fine, and actually shoots the 75's better than it does the 55's! I still wish it were a 1/7", because I only shoot heavier rounds, but I was pleasantly surprised with my 1/9", even more so because I can shoot the 69 SMK's and still get 100ct. per box rather than just 50ct. like the heavier Matchkings, so I can shoot heavier long range bullets and keep the ammo cost reasonable.
I'm still saving up to by a mid-weight or heavy contour 16 or 18" 1/7" barrel to add to my S&W later on, trying to make it a DM style rifle.
Just ask which would be better, As someone already mentioned, resale value and customer service are going to be a plus for S&W, buy the CD and spend money later to upgrade to a nice BCG, or get the S&W and install another barrel later if you need a faster twist... Also, as someone already mentioned, resale value and customer service is a plus for S&W. IMO, get the one you can get the better deal on, you won't be disappointed with either one.
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