Single-Stack 9mm Options [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

RogerinTPA

03-09-09, 19:54

How about the Walther PPS http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=walther+pps&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS311US312&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=bre1SYWDB-DZmQfy0-H3Cg&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title#

Or the Sig P239 http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=9&productid=251

I don't own either, but both look promising. I like the M&P9c. It's very concealable for me, but not a single stack. What's the intended purpose? Will this be an ankle piece, looking for something slimmer or special event/BUG gun???

Sam

03-09-09, 19:57

Sig 225 which is a single stack 228 for the most part.

Also, Sig 239.

Discontinued Beretta 92 M I think.

jnc36rcpd

03-09-09, 20:05

We issue the SIG 239 in .40 to some of our officers with small hands. I also have one in 9mm. I highly recommend it if you need a single-stack.

MAUSER202

03-09-09, 20:15

We issue the SIG 239 in .40 to some of our officers with small hands. I also have one in 9mm. I highly recommend it if you need a single-stack.

Big +1 on the 239

Marcus L.

03-09-09, 20:21

Big +1 on the 239

+2

Throw on some Hogue wrap around rubber grips and it is one very good handling pistol. Quite accurate and reliable:
http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr169/sgalbra76/Guns001.jpg

jchen012

03-09-09, 20:38

Also a big fan of the p239!! The only thing that I was disappointed with was the grip. The front of the grip is flat as opposed to all other Sigs which are round. It is very uncomfortable. However some Hogue finger groove grips fixed the problem. I just wish I didn't need to pay out of pocket for something like that.

ToddG

03-09-09, 22:14

The P239 is probably the best single-stack 9mm on the market unless you're talking about high-end custom 1911's (and all they bring to the table, good and bad).

The grip issue is a common complaint. The gun comes with the slimmest, squarest grips made. If they're not comfortable, you can get Hogue rubber grips or even finger-groove grips. There is also a very well designed Crimson Trace Lasergrips for the P239.

Stay away from the 10rd P239 magazines at all costs. Unless something has changed recently, SIG won't even sell them in the LE market. They are fun on the range but notoriously unreliable. A foreign government's equivalent of our Air Marshals tested the P239-9 w/10rd mags and the result was ... unpretty.

If you're not a fan of DA/SA guns, keep in mind that the trigger pull on the P239 DAK is about a pound to pound-and-a-half heavier than on the P229/P226 guns. There is just less space to get leverage.

I'm not a huge fan, but the Kahr is also worth looking into, especially if you're an avowed SFA fan.

FWIW, my personal take is that a compact double-stack gun is really only marginally harder to conceal and has the benefit of substantially greater firepower.

Gutshot John

03-09-09, 22:52

FWIW, my personal take is that a compact double-stack gun is really only marginally harder to conceal and has the benefit of substantially greater firepower.

Sorry I should have explained more earlier. I don't disagree, but it's not for me, but my wife, she has a grip-reduced G19 and it's still not quite doing the trick and she's not quite reaching the trigger.

Same problem with the M&P which is why I was looking to a single stack.

I figured the high-end/custom 1911 might be the best option but wanted to explore other options.

sjc3081

03-10-09, 07:22

The SW 3913.

John_Wayne777

03-10-09, 07:51

Sorry I should have explained more earlier. I don't disagree, but it's not for me, but my wife, she has a grip-reduced G19 and it's still not quite doing the trick and she's not quite reaching the trigger.

Same problem with the M&P which is why I was looking to a single stack.

I figured the high-end/custom 1911 might be the best option but wanted to explore other options.

I haven't really broken this down with a tape measure or anything, but the reach to the trigger of a single-stack gun might be the same or possibly even longer on a single stack gun like the P239 than it is on something like a G19...and the DA trigger might make shooting for her much more difficult than a lighter consistent trigger like a Glock's. Get her to handle the weapon before purchase (if possible) to make sure it will work for her.

A 1911 can be customized to grip, but the small 1911's are notoriously finicky weapons and the most reliable 1911's (5" guns) weigh more than a lot of people are willing to carry.

rob_s

03-10-09, 09:57

Gutshot John

03-10-09, 11:18

If I went the 1911 route it would definitely be custom for reliability issues. Similarly I wasn't thinking a shorter barrel than a commander and I'd probably go with a 5" for the reasons you stated. Alloy frame would be absolutely necessary. Like I said due to trigger-reach and other things, the high-end 1911 might be the best option.

I'm a bit skeptical of DA/SA guns like the 239, but we'll get her to fondle one, maybe get it in DAK if possible.

I've heard similar negative reports about Kahrs but I've also heard good things and they do bring a lot to the table.

The P7/PSP has some appeal, but being a gas-gun, it might be too exotic and at $80 a mag...well you get the idea.

dirksterg30

03-10-09, 16:04

I'm leaning towards the Kahr for myself as a daily carry pistol. I think it may wind up as a bit of a project gun though as I've had several local shooters tell me they've had problems with them out of the box.

I find thickness to be much more of a concealment impedement than grip or barrel length, which is why I'm considering the Kahr.

Rob,

from my experience (one of my carry guns is a Kahr MK9), the out of the box problems are common (maybe even normal) during break-in. My MK9 had a number of issues during the 200 rd. break-in period, but after that has been fine as long as I keep it lubed. If I don't keep it lubed, this is what can happen:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/dirksterg30/MK9/03-10-07_1150.jpg

When the photo above was taken, the gun had been in the safe for 4 months, and had not been lubed or cleaned in that time (I was testing the MK9's requirements for lubrication). After this malfunction, a couple of drops of CLP on the barrel hood and the pistol ran fine after that; I think I ran another 100 rounds through it.

Obviously, if you keep it properly maintained, this should not be an issue. I have since switched to a dry lube (Eezox), and it has been flawless for the past 600 rounds. The Kahr is a great IWB pistol; I even pocket carry it in the summertime, as long as I have a good belt on.

Ridge_Runner_5

03-10-09, 16:15

My old 10rd 9mm, next to my XD9...:D

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/89Sunbird/Shooting/9mm.jpg

crusader377

03-10-09, 23:05

There are numerous good single stack 9mm out there. Some of the ones that I would look at include the following:

STI Ranger II or colt commander in 9mm
HK P7
Sig P225/P6
Walther PPS
Walther P1 (surplus)
Kahr

I'm sure their are other good single stacks out there. I think any of these would work well and you just need to determine what you are looking for and how much you would like to spend.

tpd223

03-11-09, 02:06

We had quite a few 3913 S&Ws carried by folks on my job back when we issued S&Ws for duty weapons.

The 3913 is a superb little gun, the 3953 was also nice, if you wanted a DAO pistol.

Paul45

03-11-09, 08:56

I have been using a Walther PPS as a backup for the last 6 -7 months. I have about 3000 rounds thru it. It functions perfect. You have a choice of 6 , 7 or 8 round mags. Very simple to tear down and maintain. Very thin. It works well in a front pocket, on the hip, inside the waist band or in a jacket pocket. Take a look at it.

DMR

03-11-09, 08:58

Take a look at the Kahr P-9s. The smaller MK's and PM's while popular seem to be pushing the envelope to much for my tastes. I've carred a P-9 since I bought it in 99 at West Point. I've had several thousand rounds through it with zero issues. It has the no longer availble Heinies on it and the slide stop was dehorned by C&S. Correction, the early P's had some issues with the trigger pin walking. I shot mine for about two years with that issue, before I called Kahr. They shipped out a new grooved trigger pin and solved the problem. It never induced a malfunction, but did chew up my kydex.

I picked up a used PM-9 a little over a year ago. It has XO sights on it, otherwise its factory. I've had no issues with it, but find the grip is to small for IWB carry. I have to "fish" for the grip, so it ended up in a Bullman holster on my belt. Other then in a winter coat pocket carry with the PM doesn't realy work for me either.

I'm working on a T-9 now. C&S dehorned it, releived the grip behind the mag release and opened up the mag well for me. I also installed Novacks. I realy like this pistol for a IWB CCW in a Rosen ARG holster. With this one though I did have the dreaded break in period malfuntions. Be advised though the T-9's and T-40's are about as rare as hens teeth it seems like. If you shop around you can find them for around $540 in places like Gunbroker, I think mine was $529 for old stock.

Of course the fact I live in a ban state and can't get into carring a fat pistol with a 10 round mag always colors my judgement:mad:

Spleen

03-11-09, 09:16

The addition of Hogue checkered wood grips turned my 239 into a fantastic pistol.

I'mGatMan!

03-12-09, 09:56

Springfield Armory EMP in 9mm. 9 rounds of 9mm in a proprietary 1911. Tack driver of a gun.

pmarcusm

03-12-09, 13:35

I like the Kahr CW9 series for a single stack. The pistols have vary tight tolerences and definitely need the break-in time, but after that they are good to go. the grip is longer on this pistol versus the PM9, so you get better control and it really doesn't take up that much room in concealment.
There are a few minor differences in the CW versus the P.
There is not as much machining on the slide
The front site is staked versus adjustable
The slide release is cast versus mahined
The barrel has traditional rifling versus polygonal.

There is about a $200 difference in price. The CW is a no frils, but I really like it as my light weight conceal carry. I am actually thinking about this being my around the house gun just to have a light weight all the time pistol.

I work for a dealer at gun shows and I usually sell the CW's at every show.

I agree with the others about the Sig P239 as being a good pistol, but I just wanted to put in my 2 cents about the Kahrs.

Marcus

skipper49

03-12-09, 16:29

I've got plenty of carry pistols, but the Kahr P-40 is the one that goes with me every day, and has for the past seven years. The same gun in 9mm is even a fraction thinner. I also had a MK9 that foolishly traded off.
Nothing I've got that is close to being as potent as the Kahr, can I carry as easily as it. My next one will be the all stainless K-9 Elite, since I'm getting rid of .40's in exchange for 9's. The one exception will be the P-40, it stays.
BTW, if this is for your wife, the VERY short trigger reach might be a big plus with the Kahr.

Skip

BVickery

03-12-09, 17:45

Wife loves her Kahr CW9 and has put about 300 rnds through it. The only problem it had was when I put 1 to many rounds into the magazine.

FromMyColdDeadHand

03-12-09, 17:52

Buy a HK P7 PSP and when your wife hates, viola, you have a P7.

Owning a P7 is kind of like being a zombie. Before you have one they seem totally foreign and for brain dead people. After you own one, you can't believe that you waited this long to convert and you go on the search aimlessly for brains, er I mean spare PSP mags.

MX5

03-14-09, 10:35

I'm partial to the Springfield EMP & the S&W 3913/3914/908 models in the 9mm single stack category, but they're two different animals. I've worked a lot with steel & polymer Kahrs in all sizes & they carry well. But, for me at least, the trigger leaves a bit to be desired & with large hands I tend to have considerable problems with the slide failing to lock back due to my digits getting in the way - not enough gun. This is not the fault of the weapon, but rather a combination of my hands & this weapon. Vicki Farnam once commented that my hands were too big for the Colt Officers Model I was carrying at the time. There is one Kahr K9 I have that is 'melted' severely & heavily customized. The trigger is as smooth as an old S&W K-frame PPC revolver. This one rises to the top of the Kahr heap in spite of my issues with the slide lock, but it is a custom proposition only. It has to be handled, carried & shot to really appreciate it. Inspiration for it came from the old ASP & Devel projects.

2111

DMR

03-14-09, 20:18

Love how the grip is relieved for the mag release.

http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/kahrT9.gif

Mine is much less pronounced
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/Kahrrelease.gif

ZDL

03-14-09, 20:26

Is the Sigma single stack?

mike benedict

03-14-09, 21:15

a 9mm 1911 is a real fun pistol to shoot.

I have 3 of them and they all run great

Gutshot John

03-14-09, 21:59

a 9mm 1911 is a real fun pistol to shoot.

I have 3 of them and they all run great

What do you have?

varoadking

03-15-09, 07:05

Is the Sigma single stack?

Negative...my SW9VE has 16 round, double-stack 9mm magazines...

Mo_Zam_Beek

03-15-09, 10:37

GSJ - I have an STI Trojan 5.0 in 9mm http://www.stiguns.com/

I got it from Dawson Precision and had them do their fluff and buff. I have never had a non mag related hiccup. The mags are the weak link in the 9mms. I have not shot the new 10 rnd Wilsons (but I bet there pretty good) so I can not comment, and therefore would say that the hands down best 9mm mag is the Metalform that they make for Springfield http://www.midwayusa.com/Eproductpage.Exe/showproduct?saleitemid=567771

I think before you launch into one you ought to find someone who has a hi cut (which STI is) single stack (in any caliber) with slim grips and a short reach trigger to confirm that your wife likes it (I can not imagine that it would not fit her very well).

If it does the next step is what to get? The STI is pretty common in ESP (IDPA) and I think most prefer it over the Springer for 5" guns. While I own Baers in .45 ACP, based on a dogshit 10mm I had him build there is no way I'd have a 9mm from him. I *think* Wilson makes a 9mm too. If I were going to carry that STI I'd send it to John Harrison for one of his 'fixed' mods to Bo Mars, replacement of the FO front, and some light massaging including replacement of any critical MIM parts. If you want smaller, I know a guy that has a Colt CCO in 9mm - runs like a top with those Springer mags.

9mm 1911s are a hoot.

Good luck

ST911

03-15-09, 11:35

Another vote for a the Sig P239, P225. A SW 3913 thereafter.

239 would be my first choice.

mike benedict

03-15-09, 15:44

What do you have?

I have a Springfield loaded
An ED Brown "A" grade with both 38 super and 9mm barrels
and a SDM Fabricating custom stainless which is a Caspian slide on a Kimber frame with both a 9mm slide and a 9/23 slide

Mike

Gutshot John

03-15-09, 18:53

I have a Springfield loaded
An ED Brown "A" grade with both 38 super and 9mm barrels
and a SDM Fabricating custom stainless which is a Caspian slide on a Kimber frame with both a 9mm slide and a 9/23 slide

Mike

Do you have a favorite?

I'mGatMan!

03-16-09, 07:46

Check this:

http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=24

The Dumb Gun Collector

03-16-09, 23:05

MX5,

I really like that Kahr.

Gutshot John

03-16-09, 23:58

MX5 may I ask who the smith was who did that Kahr?

mike benedict

03-17-09, 15:13

Do you have a favorite?

My SDM custom is my favorite but I have the most rounds through the Ed Brown
I kept it in my range bag for several years and shot it every time I went to the range
The Ed Brown 1911 is just super smooth.

Several people can't wait till I kick off cause they think I have willed it to them;)

Mike

MX5

03-17-09, 18:10

I did. I retired from professional 'smithing back when George the 1st was Pres.

The Dumb Gun Collector

03-17-09, 18:20

MX5,

Well, it looks great. I think the Kahr pistols are underrated these days. I have a sneaking suspicion that if we get a new magazine ban, they will be very popular again.

For what it is worth, I always felt like the H&K P7 was the best single stack 9mm out of the box. It is an extremely safe pistol and very easy to shoot accurately--especially for novices. Unfortunately, they are no longer manufactured. I know even the Col had deep respect for the design.

MX5

03-17-09, 18:42

I like the P7 - good gun.

The Dumb Gun Collector

03-17-09, 19:40

Of course, I carry a Kahr PM9 most of the time! Hard to beat the combination of light weight and compact size.

MarkC

03-18-09, 11:13

Basically had the same experience with the MK9. There were a few FTE's during the break-in but after about 250 rounds it's been flawless eating anything I run through it including my favorite 127 gr +p+ Winchester.

Rob,

from my experience (one of my carry guns is a Kahr MK9), the out of the box problems are common (maybe even normal) during break-in. My MK9 had a number of issues during the 200 rd. break-in period, but after that has been fine as long as I keep it lubed. If I don't keep it lubed, this is what can happen:

The Dumb Gun Collector

03-18-09, 17:24

Agreed. I have had exactly one jam out of my PM9. Years ago a 124 grain Gold dot got stuck on the ramp. Don't know why, hasn't happened since.

Fidalgoman

03-27-09, 21:48

Sorry I should have explained more earlier... but it's not for me, but my wife, she has a grip-reduced G19 and it's still not quite doing the trick and she's not quite reaching the trigger.

If the overall size of the G19 is OK except for the grip, she'll love the size of the P&K model Kahrs. They are smaller overall and you can feel they're noticeably thinner and the triggers though a little long are very smooth out of the box.

Everyone I know that carries a Kahr claims it's the polymer (P) guns that sometimes have problems. Kahr however will make it right if you do have a problem. I tell ya, the P9 is one sweet pistol for on the body CC. Sometimes you have to check to make sure it's still there. The K's though just as small are in my opinion heavier than they need to be. Not horrible just a bit heavy. It does soak up the recoil though.

I'm a Glock guy (reliability) but not anal about it. People with 9mm or bigger Kahrs more often than not end up with them becoming their EDC. Just shoot it a lot at first, to resolve if any glitches exist. You won't be disappointed. Now if Glock would just make a gun as slim as a Kahr. :D