View Full Version : First malfunction on my LMT about 78 rounds in!
madisonsfinest
03-09-09, 22:32
I have a new LMT CQB MRP 16", and I just had my first malfunction. A couple weeks ago I was able to shoot 40 rounds of Remington Express Rifle 55gr 223 without a problem. I did not clean the rifle, and shot 40 more rounds today of my work practice ammo. This ammo is Lellier & Bellot FMJ/193 55gr. I see it is made in the Czech Republic. Never heard of this ammo before, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was really cheap! Duty ammo is Hornady Tap by the way, so at least they are not super cheap! Anyway, on about my 78th round I had my first malfunction. I squeezed the trigger and click, no boom. I saw that the bolt was not closed all of the way. I locked the bolt back, and saw that there was a round that slid forward to the barrel. This round was not fired. I had another round that was also in the chamber, but I think this happened when I locked my bolt back. Not sure why it happened, and thoughts? I cleared the rifle, and put the rounds back in the mag. Only 3 rounds left and they all fired.
fruitjacket
03-09-09, 22:42
I have a new LMT CQB MRP 16", and I just had my first malfunction. A couple weeks ago I was able to shoot 40 rounds of Remington Express Rifle 55gr 223 without a problem. I did not clean the rifle, and shot 40 more rounds today of my work practice ammo. This ammo is Lellier & Bellot FMJ/193 55gr. I see it is made in the Czech Republic. Never heard of this ammo before, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was really cheap! Duty ammo is Hornady Tap by the way, so at least they are not super cheap! Anyway, on about my 78th round I had my first malfunction. I squeezed the trigger and click, no boom. I saw that the bolt was not closed all of the way. I locked the bolt back, and saw that there was a round that slid forward to the barrel. This round was not fired. I had another round that was also in the chamber, but I think this happened when I locked my bolt back. Not sure why it happened, and thoughts? I cleared the rifle, and put the rounds back in the mag. Only 3 rounds left and they all fired.
I think we've discovered the problem. Also, it basically sounds like a bad round.
You had a double feed. Was there a mark on the primer of the chambered round? Also did you use a known good mag?
I think we've discovered the problem. Also, it basically sounds like a bad round.
80 rounds out of a brand new rifle dosen't qualify as dirty.
madisonsfinest
03-09-09, 22:47
Do you really think it needs to be cleaned after 40 rounds? By the way I did clean it today afterwards.
madisonsfinest
03-09-09, 22:48
It was an LMT mag, brand new with rifle. I did check to see if there was any type of strike mark on the cartridge, but did not see any
madison,
Just an FYI. Sellier&Bellot is one of the oldest ammunition makers in Europe and possibly the world. As a matter of fact you will see it in many of the European gun stores and I shot thousands of rounds of it when I was in Europe. I also have S&B 55gr. ammunition in the states as well and it has always functioned in the weapons (including AR's) that I have fired it with.
Though your description had me a little confused it sounds as if your bolt was not fully in battery and when you pulled the trigger nothing happened. You then created a secondary malfunction when locked the bolt to the rear because the first round wasn't extracted and then a second round was possibly fed?
Remember that ALL AMMUNITION to include military NATO spec ammo can fail. I get daily notices from the ammo gurus at NAVAMMOLOGCEN in regards to ammo that is reclassified (good or bad) due to a variety of issues. This translates into hundreds of thousands and even millions of rounds from any particular lot. And no firing only 40 rounds shouldn't make a difference. A few months back I fired over 400 rounds through my carbine in less than 2 hours and all I did was lube it.
A few more things;
1. What type of mag was it?
2. Do a visual and make sure that everything is as it should be.
3. Procure at least two other types of ammo that is known in the circles to function well and try it out.
IMHO you need to shoot it a hell of a lot more before getting concerned with a doublefeed at 78 rounds in.
Get more magazines and get out and shoot it. See if the problem persists.
Failure2Stop
03-10-09, 08:30
There is an issue if your gun will drop the hammer when not in battery. Just to be clear, was there a "click" or just a dead trigger?
MarshallDodge
03-10-09, 09:26
I agree that the gun needs to be run a little more.
It sounds to me like the magazine was a little late in presenting the round or the bolt is running too fast. I would try a different magazine the next time out, one with a stronger spring.
madisonsfinest
03-10-09, 09:37
There was a click, but there was no mark on the cartridge from the firing pin. Kind of like a dry fire. As I stated above I believe that I created the second problem, or cartridge into the chamber, but I'm not 100% sure. I am not freaking out by any means about what happened yet, but I don't have any other mags yet. I do have 5 pmags en route though. I could always use more time and ammo. I get 100 free rounds of 223 and .40 cal a month from work. I placed an order at Streichers for a case of the lake city 556 but its on back order, possibly 30-60 days I guess. Thanks for all of the info guys I do appreciate it.
There are lots of other places that have ammo in stock that you could get to check the weapon. Just saying.
There was a click, but there was no mark on the cartridge from the firing pin. Kind of like a dry fire. As I stated above I believe that I created the second problem, or cartridge into the chamber, but I'm not 100% sure. I am not freaking out by any means about what happened yet, but I don't have any other mags yet. I do have 5 pmags en route though. I could always use more time and ammo. I get 100 free rounds of 223 and .40 cal a month from work. I placed an order at Streichers for a case of the lake city 556 but its on back order, possibly 30-60 days I guess. Thanks for all of the info guys I do appreciate it.
There are lots of other places that have ammo in stock that you could get to check the weapon. Just saying.
Not sure about his area, but not around here.
madisonsfinest
03-10-09, 11:02
I do have some more ammo I just didn't have it with me. Unfortunately I am not a bachelor and I am happy whenever I can get some trigger time. My opportunities will go up when the weather gets a little better here in wi. Of course I have a baby due in a month which will not help. I do the best I can brother ;)
Online. Cabelas has quite a bit, as do the other usual suspects. Plus, I believe that he is an LEO or something which means he can get in on that ammo over at GT Distributors. When I checked the site that other day it said in stock ready to ship.
Not sure about his area, but not around here.
madisonsfinest
03-10-09, 11:07
Thanks for the info I didn't know of the le distributor. I will look into as soon as I am in front of computer. This is kind of a pita from my phone
Probably a bad round. Ever figure it out?
madisonsfinest
03-10-09, 11:33
It was one of my last 3 rounds. I loaded it back up and shot it without a failure
Failure2Stop
03-10-09, 11:41
There is an issue if your gun will drop the hammer when not in battery.
Apologies, this is incorrect, for some reason I had a brain-fart and was thinking about a different platform. The AR most certainly will drop the hammer even if not in battery, however the shape of the BCG prevents the hammer from contacting the firing pin until fully in battery.
It's one of those weird in-between stoppages that results in an inline double-feed if TRB is conducted as explained by Iraqgunz.
I have seen this linked to bad magazines. I don't know what about the mag caused the stoppage, but it was rectified when the mag was removed from the training cycle.
Go and see what Farm & Fleet has in stock. They were having a sale on .223 but I don't know how you feel about the caliber and the fact that it's UMC. I've fired many rounds of it down range with no problems..It should tied you over until you get what you ordered...:)
As others have said, 80 rounds is not going to make your rifle dirty enough to malfuntion. However if it's brand new it may have shipped very dry. The bolt and carrier should be well lubed. An excessively dry rifle can fail to go into battery causing a portion of the malfunction you described. I don't know how well lubed complete LMT's are when shipped as I bought mine as an upper w/o bolt. Just another thing to consider.....
CarlosDJackal
03-10-09, 15:53
Without reading any of the other responses, I just have to ask whether or not you applied any sort of LUBRICATION (to the gun you perverts!! :D).
I had this happen to two of my ARs and my AK-47 in the first magazine in all cases (you think I'd learn :rolleyes:). Lubing the moving parts took care of the issue right there and then.
FWIW, I've shot thousands of rounds of S&B .223 ammo and have not had a single issue with any of it.
madisonsfinest
03-10-09, 18:24
I did not lube it any but when it shipped from Rainier Arms it was plenty wet. I'm not going to worry about it unless it happens again. I need more time to put rounds through it. I was talking to some coworkers who liked to keep there subguns pretty dry. Of course they don't own those so if something goes to hell in them, its not coming out of their pockets. I thought I read on here that having a decent amount of lube on the moving parts was better. By the way I do not live in a dry, sand filled environment, and probably will not be in one. What's the best way to run, wet or dry?
Ok, first off did you clean the weapon first before you fired it or did you just bust it out and start shooting?
Also, you should be running your bolt carrier group and inside your upper wet. Subguns aren't the same as an AR operating system. I recommend you read the stickies here and use a quality lube.
I did not lube it any but when it shipped from Rainier Arms it was plenty wet. I'm not going to worry about it unless it happens again. I need more time to put rounds through it. I was talking to some coworkers who liked to keep there subguns pretty dry. Of course they don't own those so if something goes to hell in them, its not coming out of their pockets. I thought I read on here that having a decent amount of lube on the moving parts was better. By the way I do not live in a dry, sand filled environment, and probably will not be in one. What's the best way to run, wet or dry?
madisonsfinest
03-10-09, 18:49
It looked like it was lubed up so I went out and shot 40 rds without a problem. I shot 40 rds out a couple weeks later and this happened at the end of those rounds. I went ahead and cleaned it after this using Break Free CLP.
Was it cold outside? My guess from what you have said, perhaps a combo of stickier packing grease from the factory, cold temp and a little carbon led to the bolt not quite closing once. No biggie, I bet your cleaning it and lubing w/ CLP will fix it.
I think it is junk and broken. I will buy it from you with no questions asked.
C4
madisonsfinest
03-11-09, 16:02
I think it is junk and broken. I will buy it from you with no questions asked.
C4
Ha! I don't think so.... ;)
I just gave you some money today! Aimpoint M3 2moa on the way!!!! Thank You!
I'd almost be willing to bet that had it been cleaned and lubed out of the box there wouldn't have been any issues at all.
madisonsfinest
03-11-09, 16:58
That could be true. This is the first AR that I've owned. It looked pretty wet when I got it so I just assumed it was good to go. That was reinforced by the first day of shooting, only 40rds, without any problems. My intention is to clean it after I shoot it. Nothing major, just a decent once over. I clean my Glock after each time I shoot it, so it will be just a part of the process. I usually shoot them both at the same time, well all two times anyway! LMAO
Deadcenter45
03-11-09, 20:51
AFAIK they are coated with more of a rust inhibitor than a lubricant.
Clean, lube, rinse and repeat.
My LMT has run without problem. I like Breakfree CLP.
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