Want a .45 HD gun - USP45 vs M&P45

[96GTS]

USPf 45 - $750
MR09 rail - $80
Total - $830

M&P45 - $470
CTC grips - $300
14 rd mag - $35
Total - $805

I already have an extra x300 in the safe. So I can get the USP with a light or the M&P with the light AND laser grips for about the same price.

I would have (4) 10 rd mags and (1) 14 rd mag for the M&P. I already have (15) 12 rd mags for my USP.

I carry a USPf 45 on duty and a USPc 45 off duty. At night, I slide the x300 onto my USPc for bedside duty. I would like to get another gun dedicated for HD. Should I go with another USPf 45 or try the M&P45? Does having the laser grips on a HD gun outweigh having the familiarity with the USP? The M&Ps seem to be the cat's meow right now and it's always nice to branch out. What do the pros think??:confused:

Thanks for any feedback guys/gals!!

[citizensoldier16]

Even though I prefer the M&P far more than the USP, I'd say go with what you're familiar with. In a SHTF situation in your home, you don't want to be thinking about which gun you're carrying and how to change the mags. Plus, in a pinch, your duty mags would work in your HD gun, right? Streamline the system....

[MisterWilson]

Because you don't have Glock as an option, I'd go with the next best thing, the S&W. Cheaper and arguably more reliable.

[HK45]

Since you appear to be willing to change pistols I would say go for an HK 45 over another USP. Better ergo's than the older HK's. I also really like the M&P .45's. Great ergo's better than the HK45 for muzzle flip and far better customer service than HK. Very accurate too.

[HK45]

Arguably more reliable than what?


Because you don't have Glock as an option, I'd go with the next best thing, the S&W. Cheaper and arguably more reliable.

[RogerinTPA]

I vote M&P45 (The Mid size, with 10 round cap mags). A great balance between full and compact. If you haven't shot one, you should try it. One of the better shooting .45's for me. The recoil management is outstanding. The trigger and cosmetic twiks can be done buy several smiths out there. The HK45 is a great weapon as well, but you can own 2 M&P's for the price of one HK and there CS sucks. The M&P is very affordable and you can't beat S&W's excellent customer service.

[ralph]

I agree with the above post..Try a HK45, Better ergo's and very accurate from what I've read. As far as HK's customer service goes, Well, I have had some very recent dealings with them. I bought a new HK P-2000 (9mm) with a LEM trigger, I noticed after getting it home that the LEM trigger wasn't working properly, It wasn't always engaging and leaving me with the heavy stock D.A. pull. I called Hk,(got someone on the first try) and explained what was going on, They issued me a R.A.# and told me to send it to them and they'd fix it and send it back...They did, total time down and back 13 days, it showed up yesterday.(S.A took 30 days to repair a 1911 I have) The problem was a bent flat spring, and I guess when they had my pistol, looking it over, they also found a out of spec firing pin spring,(I never noticed anything wrong with the F.P. spring) they replaced that too.. Test fired it, Of course parts, labor shipping back to me all on their dime, I was impressed, considering the horror stories I've read.. My pistol was fixed promply, they answered my questions on the phone, What more do you want??I'm happy.

[NCPatrolAR]

Test fire each of your choices and go from there. For me; the M&P would be the choice.

[AMMOTECH]

Have you looked at the FNP-45?

http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/family.asp?fid=FNF020&gid=FNG001

Highly ergonomic, the FNP-45’s magazine release, decocking/manual safety levers and slide stop levers are all fully ambidextrous. The FNP-45 features an external hammer, 4.5" hammer-forged stainless steel barrel, stainless steel slide, full-length guide rod, C-More Systems™ fixed three-dot combat sights and a checkered polymer frame with interchangeable backstraps and an integrated accessory rail. Every FNP-45 comes standard with three magazines, a locking device and a lockable fitted hard case. FNP-45 USG high-capacity models come standard with one 15-round and two 14-round magazines.

Between $550-$650.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=124744673

.

[96GTS]

No Glocks! I know they are great guns and are dead tits reliable, but I can't stand the ergos (and cant them shoot well, but that's my issue not the gun:o). But I think the way it feels to me has a lot to do with it.


Since you appear to be willing to change pistols I would say go for an HK 45 over another USP. Better ergo's than the older HK's. I also really like the M&P .45's. Great ergo's better than the HK45 for muzzle flip and far better customer service than HK. Very accurate too.
I've felt/shot the HK45s and they are dead sexy. But an HK45 will run me over $1K with tax and all. If I was buying my duty gun (and if we were allowed HK45s), no problem. But not for something that will live on my night stand.

[Gutshot John]

M&P definitely, especially for the cost it's as good a gun as the USP. For the record, I've owned both and sold both. I love the Glock (in 9mm) but I wouldn't get it in .45.

Cost aside I believe it to be a much more shootable handgun. The USP .45 shoots like a brick and is noticeably bigger. USP Muzzle-flip is much more significant though felt recoil is less than the M&P. That said, the USP is built like a tank, but imo it's overengineered...like most things in Germany.

The reason I got rid of the M&P had nothing to do with any flaws in the gun, but rather because I am simplifying my collection: Glock in 9mm and 1911 in .45.

[Gentoo]

Funny this thread should pop up. I've been wondering the same thing.

I really like the HK45. But it is so expensive, and the pricing on the mags is absolutely insane.

The M&P 45 can be had in FDE which I think is really cool, and the mags are semi-reasonable.

Since I am trying to keep with the same system, the Glock should be mentioned, but I have heard not very good things about the G21.

I know I will get hung for this, but I don't care for the 1911.

[Jack_Stroker]

Funny this thread should pop up. I've been wondering the same thing.

I really like the HK45. But it is so expensive, and the pricing on the mags is absolutely insane.

The M&P 45 can be had in FDE which I think is really cool, and the mags are semi-reasonable.

Since I am trying to keep with the same system, the Glock should be mentioned, but I have heard not very good things about the G21.

I know I will get hung for this, but I don't care for the 1911.

What have you heard against the Glock 21? I've got a Glock 21SF and its by far one of my favorite Glocks. I prefer the feel of the larger Glock 20SF/21SF grips to the Glock 17/22 grip. I don't care for the hump on the 21 and 20, but the SF models are perfect for me. I've shot about 300 rounds so far through my Glock 21SF with zero problems. I mean that's not an amazing round count or anything but so far the pistol seems good to go.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

HK for durability, mechanical accuracy, and out of the box trigger. M&P for value. 1911 for general awesomeness.

[Gutshot John]

What have you heard against the Glock 21? I've got a Glock 21SF and its by far one of my favorite Glocks. I prefer the feel of the larger Glock 20SF/21SF grips to the Glock 17/22 grip. I don't care for the hump on the 21 and 20, but the SF models are perfect for me. I've shot about 300 rounds so far through my Glock 21SF with zero problems. I mean that's not an amazing round count or anything but so far the pistol seems good to go.

I love Glocks, and while the 21/21SF is a fine weapon in terms of reliability, it's not necessarily appropriate for every sized hand. I tried the SF after the standard 21 thinking it would improve, but it did not.

[hossb7]

+1 for FNP 45

[John_Wayne777]

I carry a USPf 45 on duty and a USPc 45 off duty.


...then there's your answer.



Does having the laser grips on a HD gun outweigh having the familiarity with the USP?


In my opinion, no. I'm certainly a HUGE fan of the laser for use in low light, but if I was given a choice between a weapon I wasn't familiar with that had a laser and a weapon that I was very familiar with that had only night sights, I'd pick the devil I knew. I know how well I can perform with night sights and a flashlight and while there's certainly room for improvement, I can still get the job done.



The M&Ps seem to be the cat's meow right now and it's always nice to branch out. What do the pros think??:confused:


Here's my 2 cents:

What can you afford? If your budget is so tight that you're making this purchase with little breathing room then sticking to the weapon you know best would be the best way to go.

If, however, you have some breathing room and have more than just the basic goal of saving your bacon with this pistol in mind (such as T&E of a new design you've heard a lot about) then go ahead and buy the M&P.

[Gentoo]

What have you heard against the Glock 21?

This thread. (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=11699)

Not saying it should matter one way or another, but you can't pretend that the information does not exist.

[ToddG]

<-- confused

If you're issued a USP45, can you not use that as your night stand gun?

If you bought the M&P45, can you use it as your duty gun?

If you are locked in to the USP45 as a duty weapon, my recommendation is to use and carry guns as similar in operation as possible. While I'd choose the M&P45 over a USP45 in a heartbeat, I wouldn't want to be stuck training with both and needing to wrap my brain around which gun I had in my hand when something scary wakes me up at 0130 ...

Between the HK45 and the M&P45, I think you have a much tougher choice that is going to come down to features (trigger options primarily). Again, since you're already using a hammer-fired HK, the HK45 makes more sense.

[Jack_Stroker]

This thread. (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=11699)

Not saying it should matter one way or another, but you can't pretend that the information does not exist.

I wasn't. I hadn't seen that thread before, nor have I ever heard anything negative about the Glock 21. The main complaint I've always heard was that the grip was too large for some people's taste. While I respect and value the opinions of Larry Vickers and other professionals in the industry, I don't hang on their every word. That test in that one thread was with one Glock 21 from the sound of it. Hardly a reliable sampling. The results are interesting to say the least and somewhat shocking. While its good to know that the pistol in question may not be the best in a sandy enviroment, at least I now know that there is some concern with the Glock 21 in that regard. Good food for thought. Though I won't be trudging through the sands of Iraq anytime soon with one and probably never will. So far mine has been flawless and while it may not be perfect (no gun is IMO) I think that it suits my purposes well. Many people had similar feelings in the thread you linked. Most of us, even the LEOs among us won't ever put any sidearm through that type of abuse.

[Marcus L.]

From my experiences, there is a clear benefit to using a single weapon system.....or weapons systems that share the same operation characteristics. When you train, your body becomes accustomed to specific proceedures for operating the weapon called muscle memory. When you are under a high level of stress such as combat anxiety, your ability to think and remember things is greatly impared and your body automatically reverts to what it knows......muscle memory.

I can list a number of cases where this can be observed. During the revolver days, there was an officer involved shooting where two of the officers where killed and they had pockets full of brass. You see, when they trained they were accustomed to putting their empty casings in their pockets and that repetition carried over to the gun fight. It was totally out of place for the scenario, but the officers did what they had programed their muscles to do. Another shooting off the top of my head involved one officer who was a gun collector and shot many different pistols in his free time. He lived, but in his report he said that he tried several times to pull the trigger on his duty 1911 and the pistol would not fire. For the past two weeks, he had done several range sessions and lots of dry firing with a new Sig P220 and screwed up his muscle memory for his cocked and locked 1911. Fortunately, the perp's handgun jammed after his first shot(which missed) and this gave the officer some time to figure out his own weapon. After the incident, the officer sold many of his pistols and focused virtually all of his training time on his duty pistol.

Personally, I like the M&P better than the USP......but if I carried the USP on duty that would be the pistol that I would depend on for defense. I carry a Sig P229 on duty and any other pistol that I would use in a self defense situation would be a Sig classic just for the sake of familiar muscle memory. I shoot other pistols as well, but on a limited basis for the reasons I described above.

[Jack_Stroker]

From my experiences, there is a clear benefit to using a single weapon system.....or weapons systems that share the same operation characteristics. When you train, your body becomes accustomed to specific proceedures for operating the weapon called muscle memory. When you are under a high level of stress such as combat anxiety, your ability to think and remember things is greatly impared and your body automatically reverts to what it knows......muscle memory.

I can list a number of cases where this can be observed. During the revolver days, there was an officer involved shooting where two of the officers where killed and they had pockets full of brass. You see, when they trained they were accustomed to putting their empty casings in their pockets and that repetition carried over to the gun fight. It was totally out of place for the scenario, but the officers did what they had programed their muscles to do. Another shooting off the top of my head involved one officer who was a gun collector and shot many different pistols in his free time. He lived, but in his report he said that he tried several times to pull the trigger on his duty 1911 and the pistol would not fire. For the past two weeks, he had done several range sessions and lots of dry firing with a new Sig P220 and screwed up his muscle memory for his cocked and locked 1911. Fortunately, the perp's handgun jammed after his first shot(which missed) and this gave the officer some time to figure out his own weapon. After the incident, the officer sold many of his pistols and focused virtually all of his training time on his duty pistol.

Personally, I like the M&P better than the USP......but if I carried the USP on duty that would be the pistol that I would depend on for defense. I carry a Sig P229 on duty and any other pistol that I would use in a self defense situation would be a Sig classic just for the sake of familiar muscle memory. I shoot other pistols as well, but on a limited basis for the reasons I described above.

This is one of the reasons I have switched to Glocks. I can get one in various calibers and sizes to fit almost any need, and they will all operate the same. I'm trying to keep all my other handguns as occasional range and plinking guns and use the Glocks for defense and concealed carry.