View Full Version : Homeless Children In America Rising Quickly
But who here cares? If so, what will you sacrifice for the welfare of a child you don't know? Not trying to start controversy as much as weed out the real dissenters and possibly comprehend their stance. I am truly troubled by this and am looking to understand.
As the parent of a 5 year old, I am very deeply disturbed by the increasing number of innocent children living in tent city's due to this economic disaster. Watching their extremely solemn faces as they are dressed in heavy clothing in their own tent "homes" is becoming too much for me. I think I will need to volunteer my time to try help, as sitting and watching is just not getting it done anymore.
Are we not better as a nation than this? Now we are up to hundreds of billions for corrupt banks, but just 40 million for the state of Texas (with the highest number of homeless children in the country expected to skyrocket this year) for the worthy in need? Would addressing this particular issue not be addressing the developing overall heart of the matter?
As well, I sense a lack of compassion from most here on topics such as this. Capitalism is the best way, but it clearly has it's critical flaws. The "every man for himself" mentality we often see associated with Republicans/Capitalists can be just as discouraging as encouraging. Has no one here been humbled to the extent that they can't see beyond their own reality?
To be blunt, I am sick of my fellow Republicans/Capitalists that are doing well in today's very real recession simply stating "I pay my bills on time, so what's the problem? Don't ask me for help."
Get a grip. Life exists outside your door. You could be next. Are we not a nation united? And, do you care about the innocent victims in the least?
I lost a six figure salary 2 years ago when the new housing market collapsed, and I am still recovering. I was one of the first to get hit in this mess, but after almost losing my home I have survived and in fact have adapted to working with those in pre-foreclosure. Don't make what I did then, yet, but I am getting there.
That doesn't mean I was a deadbeat, nor does it mean that most are who are suffering as I did. The seeming lack of compassion for our fellow citizens (no, not the loud mouthed, lazy, inner city folks we can all envision) is getting ugly. I only watch FOX news, but, again, every time I hear a news anchor state "I pay my bills, what's the problem", I feel increasingly distant from them.
Please, a f**king news anchor being paid $500K minimum is not who should be assessing things at the economic front. And Rush, who I usually agree with, has no clue what it means to suffer financially. However, should his Oxy situation have gotten any worse, he may well be by now. Could have gone either way, and I am glad he survived it.
That said, he is absolutely no different from a CO sitting in the states while the battle rages far away overseas. May not be his reality, but it sure as shit it someones on his team. And that matters in a big way.
If you are doing well, feel proud and even blessed. I am doing much better now, but I can not and will not overlook the less fortunate because it is inconvenient for me. In fact, I go out of my way to help them every day in my self-generated business. And, I have also been there.
Take what you will from my statements. I may be venting because of something I saw tonight on the news, but I am true to these views regardless.
Polar Express
03-10-09, 23:25
I agree that what you described is sad. I am a fireman in a major us city, (as well as own my own company) and I have learned first hand that 911 is primary health care for many. I for one, support capitalism whole-heartledly. I believe that the people with the ability to give should. (we all can give something)
But I ask you to consider this: When was the last time you saw a poor person employ someone? Even the drippings from the tables of the wealthy increase the lifestyle of those around them, and that doesn't include what the wealthy choose to formally give. So where do you get off bashing the folks that have money? Is is jealousy? Well, read the book 'Rich dad, poor dad', change your thinking and behave accordingly.
Now, you want to get me really going, talk about all the $$ our government is spending on other countries, and all the 'do-gooders' tripping all over the world helping other nations' needy. Why don't they nut-up and take care of our own first? When the tsunami hit in SE Asia a couple years ago, how much $$ did America spend - Government and private alike - to help them? I have nothing against the country or people we helped, and it was indeed a tragedy, but we had a lot of our own starving on our streets when that happened.
The situation you described is horrible. I certainly don't blame the children, but I do hold their parents accountable for the situation. This country was not founded by people taking incredible risks just to get a JOB. No, learn a trade, learn a skill, and don't live on credit. Nobody OWES you a job! Our culture has gotten way out of whack! In my personal experience, many of those who are living on the streets, WANT to be there, usually for the lack of responsibility required. Yes, the children are unfortunate victims of the PARENTS poor decisions. It's sad, but don't blame folks just because "you" think they 'make too much money'.
The situation you described is horrible. I certainly don't blame the children, but I do hold their parents accountable for the situation. This country was not founded by people taking incredible risks just to get a JOB. No, learn a trade, learn a skill, and don't live on credit.
All very wise words, but are you really comfortable stating that all these folks are essentially losers? Did you read what I stated happened to me? I have a $2,000 per month mortgage to cover, which provides a home for my son, yet I struggled at one time and almost lost everything because I was let go by my employer. I learned a trade and made great money, and I had many skills. None of them allowed me to obtain work that would pay my mortgage and put food on the table after my career became irrelevant in todays new housing market.
Now I work for myself and am doing well again. I am a fighter to the utmost extent and found a way back. But, there were times along the way that I needed help to get back here and I thank God that I got it. If everyone looked at me and said "That's your problem, not mine", I might be in a different place right now.
This is my only essential point. I don't endorse hand-outs, just help for those that truly need it for justifiable reasons. Especially if it keeps totally innocent children out of shelters and tent city's.
Why don't they nut-up and take care of our own first?
I totally agree 4 uberbillion percent.
~C
I may be venting because of something I saw tonight on the news, but I am true to these views regardless.
Really? May I ask what you've personally done to help people in need recently, other than post on the internet, framing some strawman population of uncaring laissez faire capitalists saying "let them eat cake?"
To be blunt, I am sick of my fellow Republicans/Capitalists that are doing well in today's very real recession simply stating "I pay my bills on time, so what's the problem? Don't ask me for help."
And another thing, every reputable study I've read shows that self-identified conservatives give far more in time and money to charity than self-identified "liberals," so maybe your lecture would have better results if posted somewhere else.
there are ways you can help.
Become foster parents. Become a Big Brother/Big Sister. Help with Habitat for Humanity. Check to see if your local church sponsors any food drives or soup kitchens. Around Christmas time many agencies sponsor the "adopt a family" program where you can help a family (that is unable to do it themselves) have a better Christmas; some of those agencies are keeping the program active year around, so see if there is a family there that you can help. Organize a clothing/food drive at your work; you would be surprised how many people have clothes they no longer wear (mysteriously "shrunk" while in the closet) and are planning to sell at yard sale but will happily give away at clothing drive.
I will caution you on the foster family option; make sure your whole family supports it and if you can, talk with other foster families before you take the plunge. Critical shortage of foster parents, but its not something to casually jump into. :p But if it works for you, there is no doubt you will have a positive impact on some the most needy children out there. Good karma too;)
CarlosDJackal
03-11-09, 14:44
My question is, where are their parents? Granted, a certain percentage of them may be orphans. But I find it very hard to believe that they all are parentless.
What we can do is nothing more than giving them the fish they need to survive in the short term. What they need is the chance AND the need to learn how to fish so that they can survive in the long term.
We live in a society that tells parents that they don't have the right to punish their children, decide when and how their children should be educated (i.e.: sex education), or even informed of certain elective medical procedures that their children may decide to take (i.e.: abortion). And yet, we wonder why they willingly abandon them.
We cannot, as a society, tell the parents that we will decide what's best for their children and then blame them for their short-comings. We either take them completely under our wings and bare all the burdens or we provide the support their parents need (morally, legally, and maybe even financially) in order to successfully raise decent, law-abiding citizens.
Instead, we are paying for "octumoms" to receive eight IVFs when she can't even support the six she already had!! JM2CW.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to belittle the situation or say it doesn't need attention. But the numbers they gave in the report I call bullshit on. I ran some quick math in my head, and admittedly my numbers may be out of date a bit on National census etc. But it came out to something like 1 out of 6 people in every state being a homeless kid.
Ghostface03
03-11-09, 16:04
Get a grip. Life exists outside your door. You could be next. Are we not a nation united? And, do you care about the innocent victims in the least?
I lost a six figure salary 2 years ago when the new housing market collapsed, and I am still recovering. I was one of the first to get hit in this mess, but after almost losing my home I have survived and in fact have adapted to working with those in pre-foreclosure. Don't make what I did then, yet, but I am getting there.
I do agree that a lot of people give off the attitude that life does not exist outside of their door. Republicans/Capitalists are usually stereotyped as those kinds of people. The big monster that takes from everyone and gives nothing. Then you have the other side (those who shall not be named) whom are generally described as the handout people. They cater to the lazy, uneducated and unemployed who just want everything given to them.
The real truth is there are some people that are well off in life that don't care about those who are destitute. They give off a selfish attitude. There are some that do care and understand that sometimes making the right choices in life still does not guarantee success. There are people who sincerely try but still end up needing a little help. Then there are some that don't try at all and want someone else to pick up their slack. I just don't think that there is anyone that could look at a starving child and not feel for them parents fault or not. IMO generalizing any group or class of people will always be wrong. But that rich man with a successful business helps a hell of a lot more people than most know.
Ghostface03
03-11-09, 16:06
Sorry for the long winded comment. I hope it made some sense.
Ghostface03
03-11-09, 16:08
My question is, where are their parents? Granted, a certain percentage of them may be orphans. But I find it very hard to believe that they all are parentless.
What we can do is nothing more than giving them the fish they need to survive in the short term. What they need is the chance AND the need to learn how to fish so that they can survive in the long term.
We live in a society that tells parents that they don't have the right to punish their children, decide when and how their children should be educated (i.e.: sex education), or even informed of certain elective medical procedures that their children may decide to take (i.e.: abortion). And yet, we wonder why they willingly abandon them.
We cannot, as a society, tell the parents that we will decide what's best for their children and then blame them for their short-comings. We either take them completely under our wings and bare all the burdens or we provide the support their parents need (morally, legally, and maybe even financially) in order to successfully raise decent, law-abiding citizens.
Instead, we are paying for "octumoms" to receive eight IVFs when she can't even support the six she already had!! JM2CW.
+1 on that also.
Cannot keep freaking handcuffing parents that want to guide their kids.
fruitjacket
03-11-09, 16:25
People who make $14/hr at the local assembly plant can't buy $500,000 homes and they should know better. Now most of them are claiming they were 'took' or lied to.
Whatever.
Government intervention in the markets, especially housing credit, is the primary reason this happened, but overall IT STILL COMES DOWN TO PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. PERIOD.
But that's not what we're about here in the USA anymore. Nope; now it's all about "The government should help me". Nanny State, plain and simple.
They take almost 50% of my money when it's all said and done every year and we spend it on Gaza. WTF..... A true conservative believes that if government were to tax less, it is your MORAL responsibility to help those out who are less fortunate. And you could...because you'd have more than half your paycheck in your wallet.
I find it hard to swallow that the government taxes us in order to take care of them, makes laws that gives them easy credit, destroys the housing market, screws everyone's retirement, the markets, Joe the Plumbers' job, paints the defaulters as 'victims', bails out the defaulting banks with our money (So they can LOAN it back to us at INTEREST), and then turns around and says "YOU should help these people out".
Hypocrisy.
Now you know why I bought my AR........
Don't let my wife see this, she wants to adopt a little girl in the WORST WAY! :D
C4
Really? May I ask what you've personally done to help people in need recently, other than post on the internet, framing some strawman population of uncaring laissez faire capitalists saying "let them eat cake?"
I am not framing a strawman population by any means. I have seen this attitude displayed here many times in various contexts. There is another thread called "Greed" running here now where most folks say that greed is not bad, but in fact a good thing. And the only Republican cable news channel has anchors that routinely state they should not be held responsible for the misfortunes of others.
As far as what I do to help others, as I stated I now work for myself helping people in pre-foreclosure. Most pay me, but I do a lot on my own dime for people that need it.
Ghostface03
03-11-09, 18:25
Don't let my wife see this, she wants to adopt a little girl in the WORST WAY! :D
C4
That is pretty cool. There are plenty that need good homes and parents.
Polar Express
03-11-09, 23:00
First: C4IGrant, that is a noble idea. I hope you consider it carefully. Many props to those of you out there that have chosen that route. My wife wants to 'make them', I feel that there are a lot of kids out there that already exist that need a loving home. I think im gonna loose this one. ;)
Second: Safetyhit; please don't put words in my mouth. Good for you for what you do for others. But.... nowhere in my post did I say 'these people are losers', not even 'essencially'. I'm happy for you that you recovered, but you mentioned that you had a JOB. You were working for someone else. Of course you are going to be more expendible than the boss. You learned, and you are now your own boss. Good for you. Truly, I'm happy that you got back on your feet. But, like you said, you are a fighter, and many others that 'allow' their children to live in these tent cities that are so sad, would rather roll over and wet on themselves, than FIGHT; and it shows. Winners fail all the time. Read their books. The only thing that makes a winner a winner, is that they got up one more time than they fell down. Keep fighting, keep getting up, and for God's sake, teach your children (I know you only mentioned a son) to do the same. We need a generation of winners. A generation of winners can help inspire others, and will foster an attitude of generosity and giving to help others in need. Give them a little fish today (to ease their pain), but tomorrow, you mentor them and teach them to fish, and next week teach them to build boats.
It takes money to make this world turn. Money is NOT the root of all evil, (yet again, another mis-quote) The love of money is the root of all evil. And like kh3 mentioned, who actually gives more money to help? The needy or wealthy?
Iraq Ninja
03-11-09, 23:42
Are these children homeless with parents, or what?
First of all, it helps if the child has a mommy AND and daddy. "Two is one" applies not only to guns and flashlights, but to parents as well.
We all know that the Middle East is a third world shit hole, but I gotta say that the the tribal system has some merits that are lacking in our society. They have a sense of community that I don't see here very often in the big cities.
All very wise words, but are you really comfortable stating that all these folks are essentially losers? Did you read what I stated happened to me? I have a $2,000 per month mortgage to cover, which provides a home for my son, yet I struggled at one time and almost lost everything because I was let go by my employer. I learned a trade and made great money, and I had many skills. None of them allowed me to obtain work that would pay my mortgage and put food on the table after my career became irrelevant in todays new housing market.
Now I work for myself and am doing well again. I am a fighter to the utmost extent and found a way back. But, there were times along the way that I needed help to get back here and I thank God that I got it. If everyone looked at me and said "That's your problem, not mine", I might be in a different place right now.
This is my only essential point. I don't endorse hand-outs, just help for those that truly need it for justifiable reasons. Especially if it keeps totally innocent children out of shelters and tent city's.
I am simply amazed at the assumptions and generalizations you made in your OP, and the misstatements you made in the one above. I would like to know what news story and broadcasters you are referring to. Please give names and details. BTW If your talking about Hannity O'Reilly or Rush you know not of what you speak. They give untold hundreds of thousands to charity and also promote huge charitable events annually that raise millions for various groups in need. Additionally how do you have any idea what amount any of the members here give to charity or how much they care. Just because someone blast someone some group or some organization does not in anyway determine what they give to the charities of their choosing or how they feel about those truly in need.
More often than not people live way beyond their means and act shocked when it is time to pay the piper. More often than not people made stupid or uninformed decisions or choices that placed them in the situation they are in. Do the children suffer because of this, sadly of course they do. As Christ said there will be poor always, or some words to that affect.
To be blunt though 99% of the people in country have no idea of what true hard times and life ending poverty is(unless they came here from another country). In this country there are so many programs and services available to those in need that it is mind boggling, why do you think 1000s of people a day are sneaking into this country? Try being poor or homeless in Brazil Darfur Russia Argentina Mexico Saudi Arabia China Iraq Congo Cuba India Sudan or any number of other countries. They beat kill jail or enslave en mass their poor and or homeless. This country is paradise even for the less fortunate compared to most of the rest of the world There are no Salvation Armies Red Cross Habitat for Humanity type organizations in those places. There are no food stamps Goodwill's free clinics SSI payment disability payments unemployment insurance payments welfare afdc payments or legal aid in those places.
The people of this country are the most generous giving caring people of any in the world. Even when the hand that feeds gets bitten we continue to feed using the other hand. Hell we even rebuild our enemies countries with our dollars after they try to kill us and lose a war to us.
That is pretty cool. There are plenty that need good homes and parents.
The funny thing is that the Govt would most likely look at me as an unfit parent (as we sell guns for a living). :rolleyes:
C4
First: C4IGrant, that is a noble idea. I hope you consider it carefully. Many props to those of you out there that have chosen that route. My wife wants to 'make them', I feel that there are a lot of kids out there that already exist that need a loving home. I think im gonna loose this one. ;)
We have already "made" two of them (both boys). My biggest fear is that I am not certain that I will be able to provide for them (if there is a gun ban). So that concerns me a lot.
C4
The funny thing is that the Govt would most likely look at me as an unfit parent (as we sell guns for a living). :rolleyes:
C4
hahahahahahahahaha, can completely related. We were liscensed foster parents for 13 years and adopted 3 kids. The monthly home inspections would always cover "firearms" and they always indicated their "desire that all firearms be disabled into components, secured in locked storage, with ammo locked in seperate storage." After i stopped laughing, told 'em it wasn't going to happen, if they wanted our liscense I would gladly shred it and mail it back. Adding to it, they often requested us to help in training with new foster families. Oh well.
Ghostface03
03-12-09, 09:07
The funny thing is that the Govt would most likely look at me as an unfit parent (as we sell guns for a living). :rolleyes:
C4
The bad part is that they probably would. Especially these days it seems like everyone is turning against gun owners.
Exerpt from the Wall St Journal on this topic. It appears that the problem is at leas in part based on statistical manipulation.
Our item yesterday on the National Center for Family Homelessness's report on "homeless" children prompted several readers, noting that it was based on data from 2005-06, to ask if the numbers were inflated by Hurricane Katrina. The answer is that it seems they were--though the report (which you can read here) reduces the Katrina effect to a series of footnotes, summed up by this one:
The number of homeless children in 2005-06 in Louisiana and possibly in Alabama, Florida, Mississippi, and Texas was unusually high because of the 2005 Hurricanes.Indeed, the report claims that 18.7% of all Louisiana children are "homeless"--a shockingly high number out of context, but not even a surprising one when you consider that the center defines a child as "homeless" if he spent a single night in the Superdome or staying with cousins in Houston or Shreveport as a result of Katrina.
By the way, to the original poster, I hope you opened your check book before starting your rant on conservatives and capitalists. If you are outraged that OTHER PEOPLE aren't giving enough money for the homeless you may be suitable for a career as a Democratic congessman.
variablebinary
03-12-09, 11:26
To be blunt, I am sick of my fellow Republicans/Capitalists that are doing well in today's very real recession simply stating "I pay my bills on time, so what's the problem? Don't ask me for help."
Get a grip. Life exists outside your door. You could be next. Are we not a nation united? And, do you care about the innocent victims in the least?
.
So you know what Republicans/Capitalists pay in charity every year, do you?
So you know what Republicans/Capitalists pay in charity every year, do you?
Yes, I know that many do and there are lot's of generous Republicans out there. Of course I know this. But that has nothing to do with the fact that many also show a complete lack of compassion for the reasons I stated earlier.
Look, maybe this argument lacks full merit regardless, as the current stories on Fox about the recently released homeless numbers that got my attention seem to show flaws in the data. My apologies. But, if Grant adopts as a small offshoot of this thread, all is well. :cool:
Lalakai, I find foster parents in general to be amongst the most unselfish and giving people in our society. To be a child without a family must be unimaginable. What you gave them was priceless.
Gutshot John
03-13-09, 19:13
hahahahahahahahaha, can completely related. We were liscensed foster parents for 13 years and adopted 3 kids. The monthly home inspections would always cover "firearms" and they always indicated their "desire that all firearms be disabled into components, secured in locked storage, with ammo locked in seperate storage." After i stopped laughing, told 'em it wasn't going to happen, if they wanted our liscense I would gladly shred it and mail it back. Adding to it, they often requested us to help in training with new foster families. Oh well.
Seriously Bro, I've got a whole new respect for you. Bravo for stepping up where others fail. Especially in the face of all that stupidity.
My wife and I are trying to have our first, but it's been rough, more and more we're considering adopting/fostering.
my opinion is that this is a very interesting thread,,,, and has a lot of merit from all sides.
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