ta33 and Front sights

[ballsout]

I have yet to find a picture of a TA33 being mounted on a carbine with a Fixed FSB. Does this mean the FSB obstructs a lot of the view? Anybody have a picture of a look through with a fixed FSB.

[sovereign]

Too much of a shadow IMO. Midlength and rifle are even worse.

[USMC03]

I just finished T&Eing a TA33 in the factory Trijicon mount (had the unit for 3 months, was only able to shoot it for approximately 2 months. Did a lot of dry fire drills for the month that I was unable to shoot).

I used the TA33 on both M4's and Mid-Lengths with front sight towers.

The front sight tower has never been an issue for me with TA01, TA31, TA33, or TA11 ACOGs.

The front sight tower is just a small blurr at the bottom of the tube. When you are shooting you don't even notice it.


Take a look through these pics....You'll notice that I use two different mid-lengths (FDE and Foliage Green) with front sight towers and TA11's:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=2475

http://demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/PRM-2006.11/small/D100_5707_img.jpg

http://demigodllc.com/photo/PRM-2007.07/smaller/D461_9051_img.jpg
Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/photo/PRM-2007.07/medium/D461_9051_img.jpg)

http://demigodllc.com/photo/PRM-2008.05/smaller/D462_6385_img.jpg

(note the dates next to the copyright mark on the watermark)


http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/DPP_0429.jpg


S/F,
Jeff

[ballsout]

Small blurr at the bottom of the tube? Would you say it is in the lower 1/3rd or even less than that? Do you think the shadow could be limiting?



I just finished T&Eing a TA33 in the factory Trijicon mount (had the unit for 3 months, was only able to shoot it for approximately 2 months. Did a lot of dry fire drills for the month that I was unable to shoot).

I used the TA33 on both M4's and Mid-Lengths with front sight towers.

The front sight tower has never been an issue for me with TA01, TA31, TA33, or TA11 ACOGs.

The front sight tower is just a small blurr at the bottom of the tube. When you are shooting you don't even notice it.


Take a look through these pics....You'll notice that I use two different mid-lengths (FDE and Foliage Green) with front sight towers and TA11's:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=2475

http://demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/PRM-2006.11/small/D100_5707_img.jpg

http://demigodllc.com/photo/PRM-2007.07/smaller/D461_9051_img.jpg
Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/photo/PRM-2007.07/medium/D461_9051_img.jpg)

http://demigodllc.com/photo/PRM-2008.05/smaller/D462_6385_img.jpg

(note the dates next to the copyright mark on the watermark)


http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/DPP_0429.jpg


S/F,
Jeff

[bullitt5172]

I have NO issue with a TA33 and a FSB, the FSB is a faint blur in the bottom of the FOV. If you focus on the target you won't see it at all. Anyone who tells you the FSB blocks their view has never used one during live fire.

[JHC]

I recently mounted a TA33 on a carbine with a fixed front sight. It is so unnoticeable I can't recall even noticing a blur in the lower field of view. It's a completely moot point.

[MisterWilson]

Too much of a shadow IMO. Midlength and rifle are even worse.

You *do* understand that with a midlength & rifle the FSB would take up even less of the view, right?

[USMC03]

Small blurr at the bottom of the tube? Would you say it is in the lower 1/3rd or even less than that? Do you think the shadow could be limiting?

I'm going to guestimate in the lower 1/4th of the tube.

As magnification increases, the front sight tower gets more blurry and lower in the tube.

Take a 1.5 - 5x scope or something simular and mount it on an AR with a front sight tower.

Start off a the lowest setting (ie. 1.5x) and focus on the front sight tower as you move the magnification slowly to 5x and watch how as the magnification goes up, the front sight tower gets lower and lower in the tube and gets more and more blurry as the magnification increases.


Head position can also effect how much of the front sight tower is visable. If I force my cheek into the stock (to the point where it is uncomfortalbe), I can make the front sight tower higher in the tube. I can also make the front sight tower higher in the tube by rotating my head forward (tucking the chin toward my neck, as if I were looking down).

But both of these head positions are uncomfortable and unnatural for me and I'm not a big guy.


Front sight tower and the TA01, TA11, TA31, TA33, etc. is not an issue.

I was re-zeroing my FDE mid-lenght with front sight tower and TA11 earlier today for an upcoming match. Zero issues, don't even remember seeing the front sight tower.....but I guess that's what happens when you are focusing on your reticle and the target and shooting live rounds.



Internet Gun Forums.....A place for non-shooters to make MOUNTAINS out of mole hills since the late 90's



S/F,
Jeff

[sovereign]

You *do* understand that with a midlength & rifle the FSB would take up even less of the view, right?

The closer the objective is to the FSB the more out of focus it becomes. I used my TA33 on a carbine for awhile. It will work, but in broad daylight with the sun to the rear the FSB can be distracting. I have read as well that some officers experienced the same problem at night with streetlights causing the FSB to reflect more than usual. With a midlength/rifle the FSB shadow becomes even more pronounced due to the focal length. Combined with the TA33s already narrow FOV, I found it unacceptable. Never had a problem with the TA11 and TA31 series...

[bullitt5172]

I'm going to guestimate in the lower 1/4th of the tube.

As magnification increases, the front sight tower gets more blurry and lower in the tube.

Take a 1.5 - 5x scope or something simular and mount it on an AR with a front sight tower.

Start off a the lowest setting (ie. 1.5x) and focus on the front sight tower as you move the magnification slowly to 5x and watch how as the magnification goes up, the front sight tower gets lower and lower in the tube and gets more and more blurry as the magnification increases.


Head position can also effect how much of the front sight tower is visable. If I force my cheek into the stock (to the point where it is uncomfortalbe), I can make the front sight tower higher in the tube. I can also make the front sight tower higher in the tube by rotating my head forward (tucking the chin toward my neck, as if I were looking down).

But both of these head positions are uncomfortable and unnatural for me and I'm not a big guy.


Front sight tower and the TA01, TA11, TA31, TA33, etc. is not an issue.

I was re-zeroing my FDE mid-lenght with front sight tower and TA11 earlier today for an upcoming match. Zero issues, don't even remember seeing the front sight tower.....but I guess that's what happens when you are focusing on your reticle and the target and shooting live rounds.



Internet Gun Forums.....A place for non-shooters to make MOUNTAINS out of mole hills since the late 90's



S/F,
Jeff

Jeff, I just found a new sig line!!!!

[hossb7]

i've been running my TA33 for about a year on my carbine - never had an issue about any "shadows" from the FSB.

a while ago after i read about a bunch of uproar about it i got my rifle out and looked through from different distances from the scope and angles and light conditions trying to find a shadow - didnt see anything but clear glass.

from my experience, it's been people on the internet making a big deal out of nothing because it SEEMS to appear that way to them. most of the time they probably have no experience with what they're talking about.

the TA33 is an excellent optic for carbines, very lightweight and robust. i had no problems getting a 1-2 inch group @ 100 yards the first time i shot it at that range.

pic of my rifle:

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/hossb7/Gear6.jpg

[JSantoro]

We instruct the TA31 RCO variant, mounted to the M4 and M16A4, and very few students bring up to subject of the blurred FSB.

Among those who find it distracting, the trend we have seen is that they are not keeping both eyes open and focusing on the target like they're supposed to during short-range engagements. They are usually closing one eye and intentionally, exclusively focusing on the reticle, or "getting sucked into the tube," as we refer to it during instruction. It's a throw-back to the "clear front sight tip" that works great with traditional marksmanship with irons.

Our fix is to force them to use both eyes via remediation with a "broken RCO" drill. Cover the objective lens with tape (no, not on the glass!), and have them shoot steel if available, or a couple of sandbags put upright side-by-side; anything that will cause a definitive response from the target. Ranges anywhere from 5-100m.

Then, remove the tape, and engage 2 or more targets with distinct lateral separation, which forces them to deal with keeping both eyes open and dealing with the magnified blur that occurs in the dominant eye when panning, while the off eye sees normal panning.

Once used to both-eyes-open aiming, in those rare instances you get someone who insists that the blur interferes with engagement, the issue is at least attenuated if not completely gone. By and large, those that continue to insist that they can see the blur, and that it makes the optic unusable to them, are often attention whores, know-it-alls, or both, and are generally unteachable. Almost invariably, they are the unit "pizza-boxes," and who base their theories on what they saw while playing Ghost Recon.

USMC03 is right, it's basically a non-issue, or at least one most often contrived by those who love to cherry-pick anything just for the sake of being obstinate or contrary.

[JHC]

+1 Marine!!! (Riverine) [about the blur non-issue]

But . . . Set a man on fire . . . ROFLMAO!!!!!


Glad you're on our side. HOOWAH

[SapperRob]

I guess I am one of the few people to disagree. I had no issues when using the stock mount, but had an issue when using the LaRue mount.

The LaRue mount sits about 1/8-1/4" lower than the stock Trijicon mount. I found that under certain conditions, ie perimeter work at night in an urban enviroment, that there could be enough glare in my FOV from the FSB to be a distraction when using the LaRue QD mount. YMMV, but in my opinion (and LaRue's CS will say the same if you email them) the LaRue QD mount works best when used with folding front sights, and the stock Trijicon mount works better with FSBs.

I like the TA-33 and use it on a 14.5 LMT carbine with rifle length VTAC handguards, and flip up BUIS, iwth the LaRue QD mount.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm164/RobNC_2008/LMTVTAC.jpg