Looking for a pistol for my Dad

[woodandsteel]

My dad has never really been a firearms enthusiast. Although, he has been a member of the NRA for the last few decades. His only real experience with firearmrs has been growing up with a bolt action .22 rifle and 12 gauge shotguns. He and I also bough M1 Garands thru the CMP several years ago.

Lately, he has been talking about getting a handgun. I think all the talk recently about a new AWB has put a bug in his ear to get a semi auto handgun with standard capacity magazines. he has asked for my advice on what to get him.

So far, my only advice to him was to get either a 9 mm or a .45 ACP. I'm not opposed to a .40 (That's what I carry). I just think that economically speaking, 9 mm is cheaper, and .45 is about the same price as .40 cal. ammo, around here. Plus I find .45 to be a smoother shooting caliber than the .40. Because my dad is pretty thrifty, and this will mainly be a range shooter/home defense weapon, I'm sure that he'll go with the 9 mm.

The next question for him is which one to buy?

He knows that I carry a Glock, and that I like Glocks. It has been my issued weapon for the last 15 years. However, it took most of those 15 years for me to really like the design of the gun. When people ask me for my recomendation, I usually point them towards the Glock 19. This is a fine weapon, I'm just not sure if it is the right fit for my dad.

He has shot my Beretta 9 mm before. He has also shot a Sig 228. The Beretta is a no-go. Just didn't like it. The Sig was a sweet shooter. Very smooth. Too bad you can't buy them new anymore.

My wife is recomending the HK USP or USPc in 9mm. She has the .40 cal version and likes it. I'll agree that it is well made. But it was expensive.

I'm looking at the Sigs. I'm just not sure if the newer Sigs are as smooth or as well made as that 228 was. Opinions?

I have wanted to get one of the newer CZ-USA line of pitols. Personally, I have no experience with these. I have heard that they are good shooters. If my dad was to get one, then I could try his out, before buying my own.:D

Any suggestions, or advice? My dad is not an experienced shooter. Unfortunately we don't have any ranges close by that allows people to rent guns.

Thank you in advance.

[NoBody]

Deleted.

[TOrrock]

Nice S&W K or L frame .357 that he can shoot .38's in, or a Ruger GP-100.

If he has to have a semi auto, Glock 17/19.

[woodandsteel]

Actually, we have a couple of ranges close by. Two are membership ranges and two are public use ranges. One of those is actually very nice.

I tried talking him into a revolver, but he seems set on buying a semi-auto.

I like your idea of a Glock 17 or 19. My first Glock was issued to me. It had an aftermarket 8 pound trigger on it. I hated that trigger. However, a couple years ago, we were finally issued Glocks with their standard 5 1/2 pound triggers. I have loved Glocks ever since. My wife, however hates them. She is an HK fan.

I also agree with you on training. Although it may be a huge inconvenience, I'll be sure to take my Dad out to the range quite often.:D

My dad is a mechanical engineer. He loves anything that deals with numbbers and physics. And he is a quick study. I am wondering about both of us investing in a reloading equipment. My wife doesn't want a reloader in our house for some reason.:confused:

But the reloading would come later. The first order of business is learning the gun and how to shoot it effectively and safely.

[TOrrock]

I understand where you're coming from. My father is 68, and while he enjoys shooting over the years, he was never a "shooter".

He bought a CZ-75B from me years back, and has a Springfield Armory M1911A1 Mil-Spec. He does reasonably well with them, but feels much, much more comfortable and confident with the Glock 19 we just got for him. He even completed a Pennington 1000 rd. concealed carry course using his Glock 19 and a Kramer #3 IWB and mag carrier.

The Glock, as you know, is a lot easier to train people on and is very easy to use in a stress filled environment.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/DP%20Concealed%20Class%2021-22%20Feb%2009/P1010698.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/DP%20Concealed%20Class%2021-22%20Feb%2009/P1010696.jpg

[woodandsteel]

Nice S&W K or L frame .357 that he can shoot .38's in, or a Ruger GP-100.

If he has to have a semi auto, Glock 17/19.

Several years ago, my Dad and I passed up the opportunity to buy a S&W Model 19. It was a p&r and it was around $250. (Stupid Me!) :mad:I bought a Beretta instead. My Dad and I still talk about that Model 19, and how natural it felt in our hands. I thought for sure that he would be open to buying a revolver of some sort. I'm a revolver guy, and I thought he was one too.

The Glock 17 or 19 is looking more and more like the way to go.

[RogerinTPA]

If he doesn't have a strong aversion to semi autos, take him to a range that rents handguns and have him shoot the M&P9 and Glock19. Sounds like he just needs to get comfortable sending rounds down range again. Have him take a firearm safety course or a concealed weapons permit that offers a defensive shooting course. You can also just take him with you to the range every time you go, until he gets comfortable with firearms again.

[woodandsteel]

If he doesn't have a strong aversion to semi autos, take him to a range that rents handguns and have him shoot the M&P9 and Glock19. Sounds like he just needs to get comfortable sending rounds down range again. Have him take a firearm safety course or a concealed weapons permit that offers a defensive shooting course. You can also just take him with you to the range every time you go, until he gets comfortable with firearms again.

One of the private ranges around here is a local chapter of the Izaac Walton League. I was actually thinking of both of us joining. They are a CMP affiliated organization, so I thought we could go back thru their M1 Garand school. We both are a little rusty on our garand knowledge, and that would allow us to buy ammo for our Garands thru the CMP. I am sure that the Izaak Walton League would have to have some sort of formal handgun training. They do the concealed carry training training for those who applied for their CCL's. I'll give them a call.

Unfortunately, I cannot find anywhere around here that allows people to rent guns. I'll check around work and see what kind of a collection I can gather for him to try out. As far as a Glock goes, he can shoot my Glock 22. I'll just tell him that the Glock 17 is a softer shooting gun.

Thank you.

[Jack_Stroker]

Several years ago, my Dad and I passed up the opportunity to buy a S&W Model 19. It was a p&r and it was around $250. (Stupid Me!) :mad:I bought a Beretta instead. My Dad and I still talk about that Model 19, and how natural it felt in our hands. I thought for sure that he would be open to buying a revolver of some sort. I'm a revolver guy, and I thought he was one too.

The Glock 17 or 19 is looking more and more like the way to go.

I was actually given my Smith & Wesson Model 19 for free. I've never seen one in better condition either. :) Great shooting gun.

[woodandsteel]

I was actually given my Smith & Wesson Model 19 for free. I've never seen one in better condition either. :) Great shooting gun.

:mad::mad::mad:

j/k

You're no help!:D I was recently bidding on a model 19. When the bids got close to $500.00 before shipping and FFL fees, I knew my dreams of one day owning a model 19 were over. Although, I do have a model 66 no-dash, that I will never part with. I love those old Smith's

Moral of the story, never ever pass up an opportunity to buy a nice gun.:)

[cathellsk]

He has also shot a Sig 228. The Sig was a sweet shooter. Very smooth. Too bad you can't buy them new anymore.

I'm looking at the Sigs. I'm just not sure if the newer Sigs are as smooth or as well made as that 228 was. Opinions?


I also recommend the Glock 17 or 19 with my preference being the 19. If I could only have one choice for myself it would still be the G19.
The SIG P228 is currently available in a new railed version. This will appearently finally be the last ones made as I read on SIG's German site that the machinery that makes the stamped slides was shut down back last summer.
I got one of these new 228Rs and really like it. They are currently available from Sports South, RSR, and straight from SIG.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/00180.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/00545.JPG

Here it is with my older 228
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/00188.JPG

I think its just as nice as my older one and balances the same also. The rail doesn't change those characteristics for me.

[Jack_Stroker]

:mad::mad::mad:

j/k

You're no help!:D I was recently bidding on a model 19. When the bids got close to $500.00 before shipping and FFL fees, I knew my dreams of one day owning a model 19 were over. Although, I do have a model 66 no-dash, that I will never part with. I love those old Smith's

Moral of the story, never ever pass up an opportunity to buy a nice gun.:)

^This.

I've been screwed over several times on that. I've passed on a few good deals periodically and always kick myself for it too. Among the highlights, I passed on a Barrett M82A1 for $7,000, an AR-50 for $2,600, a like new Bushmaster AR-15 with 5,000 rounds of ammunition for $1,000. (Several years ago, not recently.) a Beretta 92FS for $350 (because I already had one) and an H&K USP Compact for $450.00. (On that last one I really didn't have the money at the time as this was several years ago.)

[woodandsteel]

I

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/00180.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/00545.JPG

Here it is with my older 228
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/00188.JPG

I think its just as nice as my older one and balances the same also. The rail doesn't change those characteristics for me.


Wow! That is nice! I thought the 228 was long gone. I'll need to look at one of those for myself.

[woodandsteel]

^This.

I've been screwed over several times on that. I've passed on a few good deals periodically and always kick myself for it too. Among the highlights, I passed on a Barrett M82A1 for $7,000, an AR-50 for $2,600, a like new Bushmaster AR-15 with 5,000 rounds of ammunition for $1,000. (Several years ago, not recently.) a Beretta 92FS for $350 (because I already had one) and an H&K USP Compact for $450.00. (On that last one I really didn't have the money at the time as this was several years ago.)


Yeah, there are a few deals that I passed on that I keep kicking myself for.

It looks like 100 percent of you are recommending the Glock. Cool! I only have .40cal Glocks. So, maybe my Dad and I can go in and get a group buy on a couple of 9 mm Glocks.

I always thought that a gun collection wasn't complete unless it had a Glock 19 in it. One day, I hope to have a glock 34 as well. But that is for another thread.

Thank you all for your responses.

[Gentoo]

I'll be another one recommending a G19. They are boringly reliable, simple to use, no drama guns.

[woodandsteel]

I hope you guys don't mind, but I do have one more question.

For those of you with both the Glock 17 and 19, which do you prefer. I'm looking for which one you think is the better shooter. And which when feels better in your hand. I know this is very subjective. But I have heard people before say that they shoot better with a 19 then they do with the 17.

As I said earlier, my Dad will probably use this as a range gun and maybe home defense. I don't see my dad ever getting a CCL for it. Although he might, due to a newly elected Sheriff who has made it easier for people to get CCLs.

[firecop019]

me personally and most of my co-workers liked the m&p design over the glock. our qualification scores rose dramatically and those that didn't enjoy shooting now do. we are shooting the full size .40 and so far i've heard nothing but compliments for the gun selection.

[Jack_Stroker]

I hope you guys don't mind, but I do have one more question.

For those of you with both the Glock 17 and 19, which do you prefer. I'm looking for which one you think is the better shooter. And which when feels better in your hand. I know this is very subjective. But I have heard people before say that they shoot better with a 19 then they do with the 17.

As I said earlier, my Dad will probably use this as a range gun and maybe home defense. I don't see my dad ever getting a CCL for it. Although he might, due to a newly elected Sheriff who has made it easier for people to get CCLs.

I've handled plenty of Glock 22's and 17's. I own a Glock 21SF, Glock 20SF and a Glock 23. I prefer the larger guns over the smaller 23 as the grip on the 23 is borderline too small for my hands. My pinky almost hangs off the bottom.

[woodandsteel]

My first two issued Glocks were 2nd generation Glock 22's. I bought my first Glock from my department. I now wish I would have bought the second one as well.

When we went to the 3rd generation Glocks, we had a range session where they allowed us to shoot a total of three rounds out of the Glock 22 or 23 to see which we prefered. I thought the 23 felt better, so I chose that as my duty weapon.

When we trade our Glocks in again, I will be sure to go with the larger Glock 22 again. I like the fact that the 23 is slighlty easier to conceal off duty. But, I also find that I get a better grip with the Glock 22.

I'll have my dad shoot my 22 and 23 and see which is more comforatable to him. I'll let him know that the 9mm will be softer shooting gun.

[woodandsteel]

me personally and most of my co-workers liked the m&p design over the glock. our qualification scores rose dramatically and those that didn't enjoy shooting now do. we are shooting the full size .40 and so far i've heard nothing but compliments for the gun selection.

I'll have my Dad look at the S&W.

I don't know why, but for some reason the M&P series really doesn't appeal to me personally. I haven't heard anything negative about them. It could be that I am still upset about them putting the lock on their revolvers. Plus, S&W doesn't make the equivualent of a six shot K frame anymore. If you want anything that resembles a K frame you have to go with their 7 shot model 619 or 620.

[Jack_Stroker]

I'll have my Dad look at the S&W.

I don't know why, but for some reason the M&P series really doesn't appeal to me personally. I haven't heard anything negative about them. It could be that I am still upset about them putting the lock on their revolvers. Plus, S&W doesn't make the equivualent of a six shot K frame anymore. If you want anything that resembles a K frame you have to go with their 7 shot model 619 or 620.

The Smith & Wesson M&P doesn't really appeal to me either. I'm sure its a fine gun. By all accounts they are. After handling them, I just sort of feel "meh" about them. The lock doesn't bother me. I am not sure why it would bother anyone. I think that's just people being stubborn and traditional. I don't care for the reasons why the lock is there, but it isn't as if it has ever engaged on me when it shouldn't have. I've just ignored the feature on my post-lock Smith & Wesson and I largely forget the gun has it. I've also got a pre-lock Smith & Wesson revolver. (K-Frame actually) and while I have looked at some of the newer revolvers and I've never been impressed with any of them enough to buy one (outside of the .500 Magnum) I can't see how adding more ammunition capacity is a bad thing.

I think this is the first time I've ever heard someone say that they hated a gun because it held to many bullets. :confused:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/8388756/stranger.jpg

Remember the Villian? A seven shot six shooter is a good thing.

[woodandsteel]

That picture of Arnold is funny. I was actually going to talk about that movie while discussing "seven shot six shooters" in my earlier comment.

I guess I'm just too much of a traditionalist. I am actually a fan of their J-Frame revolvers. I was also looking at ther 686p in a 3 inch configuration. I am hesitant though. I have to wonder how much bigger the cylinder would be on a 7 shooter. I would want the three inch model for carry purposes. Just wondering if the 7 shot revolver is concealable enough.

[Jack_Stroker]

That picture of Arnold is funny. I was actually going to talk about that movie while discussing "seven shot six shooters" in my earlier comment.

I guess I'm just too much of a traditionalist. I am actually a fan of their J-Frame revolvers. I was also looking at ther 686p in a 3 inch configuration. I am hesitant though. I have to wonder how much bigger the cylinder would be on a 7 shooter. I would want the three inch model for carry purposes. Just wondering if the 7 shot revolver is concealable enough.

I don't think the seven shot cylinders are larger. I think the chamber walls are thinner due to advances in metallurgy that allow for them to make thinner strong walls and thus put more chambers in a similar or same sized cylinder.

[woodandsteel]

I'll admit that I am actually very ignorant on the newer Smith and Wesson revolvers. I've never seen any of the newer ones up close and personal. And I can be accused of being stubborn. It's the Czech and Irish blood in me:D.

There is a gun show in a couple of weeks. I will have to look for a 686p and see how it feels. If it isn't much bigger than a standard 686, I think I might just put a three inch model on my list of guns to buy.

[cathellsk]

S&W doesn't make the equivualent of a six shot K frame anymore. If you want anything that resembles a K frame you have to go with their 7 shot model 619 or 620.

Actually they do. The 10, 14, 64, 67, & 315. I think thats all of them. All 6 shot .38Spl K frames.
The seven shot models are L frames, one size up from the K. I agree, the 3" 686 would be the cat's meow.

[bpd315]

Model 19 S & W.....I have kicked myself so many times for selling that gun, it's not even fun anymore. Model 19-6. Went through the academy with it.

Anyway, I agree with the revolver route. Several nice choices from S & W, Colt, Ruger. .357 so he can shoot .38 and then shoot the .357 loads when his confidence is built up. Or, a J frame is an excellent choice. I have a 642 and enjoy shooting it. Maybe get his feet wet then move to a semi auto down the line?

YMMV
Red

[woodandsteel]

Actually they do. The 10, 14, 64, 67, & 315. I think thats all of them. All 6 shot .38Spl K frames.
The seven shot models are L frames, one size up from the K. I agree, the 3" 686 would be the cat's meow.

Ooops!!:eek:

I screwed up that one. In my head I was thinking K Frames as being .357/.38's. I totally forgot about the .38 models.

I know they make the 64 in a three inch. I wish they would do the same with the new model 10's. I like blue revolvers the best.

[cathellsk]

Ooops!!:eek:

I screwed up that one. In my head I was thinking K Frames as being .357/.38's. I totally forgot about the .38 models.

I know they make the 64 in a three inch. I wish they would do the same with the new model 10's. I like blue revolvers the best.


You are right about K frame .357s, they are a thing of the past. :(

[Jack_Stroker]

You are right about K frame .357s, they are a thing of the past. :(

Not for me. I still have my Model 19. :)

[Beat Trash]

To the OP, I'd go with a 9mm. The Glock 17 or G19 are both excellent. Different people prefer one over the other. Let him feel both at a shop and decide.

I have been carrying the M&P for around 3 years as an issued gun. The more I shoot them, the more I like them. This is from a HUGE Glock 9mm fan. The current rebate for the M&P (two additional magazines) adds to the appeal.

I too am not happy with the current state of the S&W revolvers, and with the locks. But the M&P's are a totally different animal...

[woodandsteel]

To the OP, I'd go with a 9mm. The Glock 17 or G19 are both excellent. Different people prefer one over the other. Let him feel both at a shop and decide.

I have been carrying the M&P for around 3 years as an issued gun. The more I shoot them, the more I like them. This is from a HUGE Glock 9mm fan. The current rebate for the M&P (two additional magazines) adds to the appeal.

I too am not happy with the current state of the S&W revolvers, and with the locks. But the M&P's are a totally different animal...


Thanks, I will be taking him out to the gun show this next week, and have him do some looking. The last gunshow I went to had very little selection and very high prices. We'll also check out a couple local gun dealers and see what we can find.