View Full Version : Bolt & Carrier Questions
I'm in the market for a new bolt/carrier group. I would like some opinions and whats the best/most reliable set out there(for a carbine gas system if it matters).
The top of my list is the "enhanced M16 set" by LMT and also the POF setup- I'm thinking low maintnence(easy to clean and reliable). I know JP has a new tactical carrier out also if anyone knows anything bout that.
deadwood83
12-20-06, 21:49
I like the Young Mfg. bcg b/c it's all chromed so cleaning is super easy. Plus it's well made, well finished, and all around a nice piece.
Colt, w/M16 carrier...
Colt what? I got the M16 carrier part.
I believe that Young Mfg. makes the Les Baer bcg's.
I've had one for a while and it's been 100% after only a couple of thousand rounds. Extra heavy and all chrome, I always wondered if the bolt was MP tested, as it's not marked.
All things considered, I'd still take the Colt M16 bcg.
Colt what? I got the M16 carrier part.
As in complete Colt Bolt Carrier Group with M16 carrier...
I believe that Young Mfg. makes the Les Baer bcg's.
I've had one for a while and it's been 100% after only a couple of thousand rounds. Extra heavy and all chrome, I always wondered if the bolt was MP tested, as it's not marked.
All things considered, I'd still take the Colt M16 bcg.
What does "MP tested" mean? I have seen that around but I never owned an M4 style gun untill I bought one right after a deployment. (the USMC doesnt cover the technical stuff bare with me). I think I have seen other "_____ tested" labels too- what are they and why is it important before buying one.
Magnetic particle. It detects flaws in manufacture. It can't predict future fatigue/fractures, but if they already exist it detects them.
MP bolts should be more reliable since they weed out bad ones that are prone to premature failure from the start. But over the course of the lifetime of the weapon, you will have to swap out with a new bolt. 2,500/5,000/10,000/15,000 rounds, who knows, but your day will come.
Fatigue/end-of-life applies to other parts as well -- buffer springs, extractors/extractor springs, mag springs (if mags last long enough), etc. Not that they're mag particle inspected, but that parts do have a finite life and you are better off replacing them on intervals as a PM rather than waiting for them to break and doing CM.
Magnetic particle. It detects flaws in manufacture. It can't predict future fatigue/fractures, but if they already exist it detects them.
MP bolts should be more reliable since they weed out bad ones that are prone to premature failure from the start. But over the course of the lifetime of the weapon, you will have to swap out with a new bolt. 2,500/5,000/10,000/15,000 rounds, who knows, but your day will come.
Fatigue/end-of-life applies to other parts as well -- buffer springs, extractors/extractor springs, mag springs (if mags last long enough), etc. Not that they're mag particle inspected, but that parts do have a finite life and you are better off replacing them on intervals as a PM rather than waiting for them to break and doing CM.
So are you saying replace just the bolt or the entire BCG in the 2,500/5,000/10,000/15,000 intervals? Does it matter if the Carrier is MP tested?
What combo do recomend?
What about the LMT bolt with the dual extractor springs- Is that a waste of money if all bolts should be changed out around the same time?
Anyone have the LMT enhanced bolt want to say a few words?
What about the LMT bolt with the dual extractor springs- Is that a waste of money if all bolts should be changed out around the same time?
Anyone have the LMT enhanced bolt want to say a few words?
The LMT enhanced bolt is sometimes hit and miss. I have some that run well and others do not.
For quality BCG's, stick with these:
CMT (make sure it is properly staked)
LMT (not enhanced)
Colt
C4
Grant- I had a guy on another forum tell me to "throw away" the nicely staked M16 BCG I got from you along with the MPI tested bolt with reliability upgrades. Could he be right?
I'm very worried! :rolleyes:
Grant- I had a guy on another forum tell me to "throw away" the nicely staked M16 BCG I got from you along with the MPI tested bolt with reliability upgrades. Could he be right?
I'm very worried! :rolleyes:
LOL, now why would this person suggest such a thing?
C4
First of all, he's probably a fat slug, he hangs out at m1911.org and how owns a POF AR15- probably his first and only experience with them...
Grant- I had a guy on another forum tell me to "throw away" the nicely staked M16 BCG I got from you along with the MPI tested bolt with reliability upgrades. Could he be right?
I'm very worried! :rolleyes:
Hey, if you throw it away, throw it my way! :D
You know what they say about opinions....
I tore him a new one for questioning my opinions, my build and the opinions of everyone on M4 who I can pretty much trust...
First of all, he's probably a fat slug, he hangs out at m1911.org and how owns a POF AR15- probably his first and only experience with them...
Hangs out on the 1911 forum? Say no more....
C4
Oh, but I'd love to say more. That's not the worst of it from yesterday. The owner started a thread to bitch about the X200As rocker switch being to tight compared to his Taiwan imitation M3 light. He said activating it messed up his sight picture. He complained to SF, they sent him a tape switch. He does not "believe" in them so he cut it off. He is seriously confused about getting a sight picture before and after turning on the light.
He complained to SF so many times they stopped returning calls or replying to emails. They sent him at least 3 switches- all "defective" and tight in his opinion.
Little boys shouldn't play with big boys' toys.
He complained to SF so many times they stopped returning calls or replying to emails. They sent him at least 3 switches- all "defective" and tight in his opinion.
Even worse, he'll ruin the great customer service for the guys who really need it.
The LMT enhanced bolt is sometimes hit and miss. I have some that run well and others do not.
For quality BCG's, stick with these:
CMT (make sure it is properly staked)
LMT (not enhanced)
Colt
C4
Grant,
So you don't recomend any chrome plated bolts(say POF's M16 BCG or something similar)?
Grant,
So you don't recomend any chrome plated bolts(say POF's M16 BCG or something similar)?
The Young MFG carriers and bolts are nice, but they are pricey. Unless your building a ultra precision AR, I wouldn't spend the money.
C4
The Young MFG carriers and bolts are nice, but they are pricey. Unless your building a ultra precision AR, I wouldn't spend the money.
C4
Who sells the Young BCG- Do they have a web address? I've been cleaning mil-spec. black BCG's for almost 6 years and I never get them fully clean...thats why I'm askin about AR-Bling.
deadwood83
12-21-06, 22:20
Just a warning but be prepared to drop somewhere around $200 for the Young Mfg bcg.
ETA: IIRC I got mine from Model1 but I don't think they sell the complete BCG anymore.
davemcdonald
12-21-06, 22:28
but then again do you have to get one fully clean?
I have LMT regular bolts and enhanced and they all work great. The enhanced is really easy to clean but the bolt and carrier are not dinner ware so that is kind of over engineered. The enhanced is more expensive so that is a strike. Any one of the three Grant mentioned will serve you well.
Dave
but then again do you have to get one fully clean?
I have LMT regular bolts and enhanced and they all work great. The enhanced is really easy to clean but the bolt and carrier are not dinner ware so that is kind of over engineered. The enhanced is more expensive so that is a strike. Any one of the three Grant mentioned will serve you well.
Dave
Are the LMT bolts MP tested and marked? How many mfg's. actually mark their bolts?
Who sells the Young BCG- Do they have a web address? I've been cleaning mil-spec. black BCG's for almost 6 years and I never get them fully clean...thats why I'm askin about AR-Bling.
Young MFG doesn't have a web site (to my knowledge). POF has a hard chromed BCG made by Young and I have them in stock if interested.
C4
Are the LMT bolts MP tested and marked? How many mfg's. actually mark their bolts?
Yes they are. To my knowledge, only LMT, Colt and FN currently mark their bolts.
It is my understanding that it is NOT a .Gov req to mark and test every bolt, but companies choose to do it.
C4
Fatigue/end-of-life applies to other parts as well -- buffer springs, extractors/extractor springs, mag springs (if mags last long enough), etc. Not that they're mag particle inspected, but that parts do have a finite life and you are better off replacing them on intervals as a PM rather than waiting for them to break and doing CM.
Please pardon the ignorance but how do the mags wear out?
Please pardon the ignorance but how do the mags wear out?
Mags get dropped, crushed, stepped on, or other problems that result in damage. Once the feedlips get bent or cracked, its not worth playing around with, and any bad mag I run into I crush so there is no question.
Some mags will run for decades, but some will get dropped in real use or training and that will be the end of them.
At under $15 a piece, and only slightly more for SS models, its not worth taking chances with a problematic magazine.
As far as BCGs, I run Colt & LMT in weapons I depend on, though my CMT MPI bolts have been good to go as well. LMT BCGs are available pretty cheap, so I don't see the point in cheaping out to save $10 or so.
http://www.rainierarms.com/img/shop/product/8796e1f8ea6cdecb28722883b966c5fd.jpg
Thanks for the clarification Stickman. As my own observation LMT seems to stalk their gas key better than CMT. Again my observation.
Thanks for the clarification Stickman. As my own observation LMT seems to stalk their gas key better than CMT. Again my observation.
CMT does a very poor job of staking them. That is why I re-stake everyone that leaves my shop.
C4
What is the proper way of staking bolts as home without special staking tools?
I own few CMT bolts but I don't have a dedicated staking tool.
What is the proper way of staking bolts as home without special staking tools?
I own few CMT bolts but I don't have a dedicated staking tool.
You can take some kind of sharp took and punch in the side of the carrier key so that it pushes in on the bolts holding the carrier key in place.
You can also send them to me for a small fee.
C4
Grant
I would love to but I'm in Kanukistan (Communist Canada) so I don't think I can.
Can I? :D
Grant
I would love to but I'm in Kanukistan (Communist Canada) so I don't think I can.
Can I? :D
Yeah, that would be a painful process.
C4
Does anyone have any experience with the GTS BCG?
http://www.globaltactical.com/axami/shop.php?grd=360
No experience with the GTS BCG. Denny has the list of components he uses and the major ones are CMT. Grant can probably tell us what material CMT makes the bolts and carriers out of?
Help please Grant and/or Denny.
Thanks in advance, Billy
Does anyone have any experience with the GTS BCG?
http://www.globaltactical.com/axami/shop.php?grd=360
Yes. This is a CMT (Stag) BCG that Denny builds and properly stakes.
I have been offering the same thing for over a year now: http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=BCG&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3D%26searchstart%3D0%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates/FullNav/SearchResult.html%26category%3DSARM
C4
Grant, what steel does CMT use to make the bolts and carriers?
Billy
Grant, what steel does CMT use to make the bolts and carriers?
Billy
Am guessing 158 on the bolt, but have never heard for sure.
C4
How hard is it to get a carrier properly re-staked? How much does this type of service usually cost?
I recently traded for a SW M&P-15 and after reading on this website, have discovered that the staking isn't up to par. I even went back to look at my 20+ year old Colt HBar and it is definitely different.
How hard is it to get a carrier properly re-staked? How much does this type of service usually cost?
I recently traded for a SW M&P-15 and after reading on this website, have discovered that the staking isn't up to par. I even went back to look at my 20+ year old Colt HBar and it is definitely different.
Well, you would think it is rocket science. What it comes down to is laziness and poor QC.
C4
Robb Jensen
01-15-07, 18:54
It's wierd, the S&W M&P15s I see come through the shop have staking but this staking is 100% from the top with a chisel type tool used across the head of the screw and carrier key. How or if this would hold I don't know. The M&P15PC that we special ordered wasn't staked at all (looked like a Young Mfg carrier). I staked with MOACKS before it's buyer took delivery. Part of the metal of the key should be pushed into the carrier key screw to keep it from loosening. If proper spec, known good components are used and it torqued properly it probably won't come loose even if it weren't staked. Staking ensures that it won't come loose, the screws can still break and sometimes do.
I'm a little anal and stake with a MOACKS and then counter stake the screws so that they cannot turn past the stake of the carrier key. Mr. Murphy knows me well.
ar_mcadams
01-19-07, 21:16
Well, you would think it is rocket science. What it comes down to is laziness and poor QC.
C4
exactly!!!
It's wierd, the S&W M&P15s I see come through the shop have staking but this staking is 100% from the top with a chisel type tool used across the head of the screw and carrier key. How or if this would hold I don't know.
Do you think that instead of serving as a stake this is supposed to serve as a witness mark? It would seem that if screws ever did start backing out, it would be obvious during an inspection, to alert the operator to service or replace the key.
Do you think that instead of serving as a stake this is supposed to serve as a witness mark? It would seem that if screws ever did start backing out, it would be obvious during an inspection, to alert the operator to service or replace the key.
I guess you could use them for that, but I would rather not have to closely eye ball the carrier key every time I clean the weapon.
C4
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.