View Full Version : Things that annoy me.
Failure2Stop
03-18-09, 21:00
There are numerous things that get under my skin when it comes to weapons (especially the Ar platform) and employment. Since it covers a few different topics I figured that GD would be the best place for the thread, and if it gets out of hand won't impact any information sub-forum.
Anyway, here goes-
Comparing AR platform weapons to some vehicle comparison. It simply is not an accurate comparison. Nobody is saying that you need a Ferrari over a Ford Ranger. The real comparison would be a reliable vehicle to one that was poorly copied by some random third-world country that doesn't run on normal fuel and may or may not actually be assembled correctly. The comparison between two virtually identical weapons (aside from material and assembly quality combined with quality control and appropriate testing) to completely different automobiles is stupid.
"Parts is parts" mentality. This applies not only to weapon parts, but accessories as well. They aren't. Any simple item (of which the AR is full) can be copied and cost-reduced. Much like any structure, you might be able to reduce weight by removing material, but you cannot increase strength by removing material. The difference may be negligable depending on application, or it can be catastrophic if it is subjected to what would normally be the upper limit of strength required. Same thing with cost and quality. To reduce cost, something must be omitted or replaced with a lower-cost option- be it material, assembly time/proficiency of assembler, quality control, a combination of those, or any combination of a multitude of other cost-cutting measures. Now I am not saying that only the most expensive option is the only logical choice, simply that two items on opposite sides of the cost/quality spectrum are not going to be comparable.
Slapping an item on a weapon for 20 minutes and declaring it the best thing since processed cheese. Extended use of an item to determe use, applicability, durability, cost effectiveness, etc is necessary to be of any use in any way other than to put a picture of said item on the errornet for some self-gratifying reason or personal satisfaction. I don't care about your self-esteem, I want to know how the item helps (or hinders) you in your use. Frame of reference is critical when making a claim or review of a piece of gear. Even if the frame of reference is comparing the item to not having anything comparable at least gives some idea to the audience as to where the review is coming from. If I have never used a bottle-opener before it would be foolish to declare the LaRue Armadillo the best bottle-opener in the world. Better than opening it with a real armadillo, sure, but I would be lacking the experience and knowledge to recommend it over ANYTHING. Just say what you know. Most of the time the most someone can claim is that the item didn't jettison itself from the weapon while making a youtube video of their incorrect use of said item.
People that feel compelled to snidely inquire if I could fit anything else on my gun. The only things I have on my gun are functional, useful, and applicable to my job (RDS, light, BUIS, sling, VFG). If we both took off the items that we didn't know how to use, my gun would remain the same while most other's would be missing a scope, stock, and trigger.
People that fail to comprehend the difference between hobbyist and serious user. If your only use for an AR is to make holes in paper (while I could recommend less costly solutions to rectify the problem of a piece of paper devoid of air-flow), and have no interest in developing your skill beyond that end, please feel free to keep your opinion on tactical matters to yourself. While I fully support your right to own any legal weapon, simply owning a visually similar piece of equipment does not make your opinion valid or relevant. Law enforcement and military members are not the only serious users of the platform (though many of them don't qualify as serious users either). Anyone that understands the importance of a weapon and trains in it's use for the defense of life is a serious user. I have met many civilians here on M4C that are more serious about training and dependable gear than most mil or LE that I know.
The "best". Why do so many people ask about the "best" whatever. There is no "best", there is only personal opinon. What one person finds to be ideal, someone else may find to be severely lacking, even when all other variables are seemingly similar. Nobody else in the world is just like you in every way, and all items are sub-optimal in some respect. Constantly seeking "the best" is a sure way to eternally chase your tail and spend a lot of money on something relatively insignificant.
Just a few things that bother me, I am sure I will think of others shortly.
Anybody else?
John_Wayne777
03-18-09, 21:24
Preach.
There's nothing more absurd than some kid on the internet seeing a picture of an AD SEAL and complaining about how much "shit" is on his rifle.
...because we all know that someone who kills terrorist dimwits for a living has no practical need for a white light, an IR illuminator, an IR laser, some sort of optic, a suppressor, a collapsible stock, or any of the other items that make a carbine a more efficient and effective tool under a variety of circumstances.
Preach it brother!
I don't even go into the gun sections of other forums much because of what you posted about.
Better than opening it with a real armadillo, sure,
Hey, don't knock it until you've tried it:p
Hey bro well said. Like wise I have several things that annoy the crap out of me.
1. This was brought up on another thread but worth bring up for me again. Not everyone who has been in the military was a sniper or recon or delta or a ninja. I am amazed how super billy cool killers there are out there. If you did 2 weeks so be it. if you are a super ninja so be it.
2. Just because you pay 8 billion dollars for something does not meen it is the best for what you are wanting to do. I agree buy quality gear, but know how much product "X" is everywhere else before you chop off an arm for it.
3. Do not get into an debate by saying "well I feel" I don't care about your feelings I care about what is provable. This is not only true when talking about guns & tactics but pretty much everything.
I could go on for quite a while but this is a start. Thanks for providing a place to rant with out hijacking another thread.
Things that annoy me:
People who think they're hot shit because they have a $3000 AR and they go to every carbine class known to man. There is no need for an accountant to spend more time in the field than the office. More than likely, you will never use that training in an actual combat situation. There is no need to run mozambique drills on some schmo trying to steal your tv. You don't need a top of the line AR to protect your home. Well unless you're expecting to be raided by a squad of insurgents. A $200 870 will do the job just as well if not better. If you can afford it, and it gets your jollies off, by all means do it. Just know that until you use your super-tactical-ninja skills in a life defending situation, it's nothing more than a hobby and something to brag about on the internet. But don't shit on those who can't afford the "best", when you will never use yours for anything other than punching holes in man-shaped targets.
Things that annoy me:
People who think they're hot shit because they have a $3000 AR and they go to every carbine class known to man. There is no need for an accountant to spend more time in the field than the office. More than likely, you will never use that training in an actual combat situation. There is no need to run mozambique drills on some schmo trying to steal your tv. You don't need a top of the line AR to protect your home. Well unless you're expecting to be raided by a squad of insurgents. A $200 870 will do the job just as well if not better. If you can afford it, and it gets your jollies off, by all means do it. Just know that until you use your super-tactical-ninja skills in a life defending situation, it's nothing more than a hobby and something to brag about on the internet. But don't shit on those who can't afford the "best", when you will never use yours for anything other than punching holes in man-shaped targets.
A good portion of the people on this forum have, in fact "been there, done that, got the T-shirt."
I listen to them when they tell what works and what doesn't so that if it comes a time when I have to save my bacon, my chances of survival are hopefully increased. Stacking the deck, if you will. Going cheap on equipment that you may depend on one day does not strike me as a good investment. And wasting money on cheap stuff that you could have put toward good equipment does not seem to be a wise move, either.
Like I said in another thread, I'm the world's cheapest bastard, but I don't cut corners on the stuff that matters.
One of the reasons I'm here is to learn. I understand the issue of being a newb & I'm sure I'll ask questions that already have answers....many of which will be asked again in the future as the site continues to grow.
I'm a firm believer that ignorance is curable but stupid is forever.
What annoys me (and i'm talking for most hunting and shooting forums) are the regulars who go out of their way to be smart asses & insult, instead of answering a simple question or more importantly skipping the thread and moving along. Why is it so hard for some to be helpful or silent??
We should want to grow the sport we love...not drive them away. I see it more on hunting forums than shooting but it seems to be rapant. Gotta love the net and safety behind a keyboard.
rant over...
The "best". Why do so many people ask about the "best" whatever. There is no "best", there is only personal opinon. What one person finds to be ideal, someone else may find to be severely lacking, even when all other variables are seemingly similar. Nobody else in the world is just like you in every way, and all items are sub-optimal in some respect. Constantly seeking "the best" is a sure way to eternally chase your tail and spend a lot of money on something relatively insignificant.
http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/Pictures/Treasures%20of%20the%20Bible%20(Church%20Age)/images/scan0005.jpg
A good portion of the people on this forum have, in fact "been there, done that, got the T-shirt."
I listen to them when they tell what works and what doesn't so that if it comes a time when I have to save my bacon, my chances of survival are hopefully increased. Stacking the deck, if you will. Going cheap on equipment that you may depend on one day does not strike me as a good investment. And wasting money on cheap stuff that you could have put toward good equipment does not seem to be a wise move, either.
Like I said in another thread, I'm the world's cheapest bastard, but I don't cut corners on the stuff that matters.
Why not spend less money for something that does the exact same thing? But enough of this, if you have a problem with my choice of equipment, PM me about it instead of shittin up the threads.
John_Wayne777
03-18-09, 22:53
Just know that until you use your super-tactical-ninja skills in a life defending situation, it's nothing more than a hobby and something to brag about on the internet.
Umm.....I'm assuming that you were in the Corps because of your title. All that training the Corps put you through? It was preparing you to deal with a life or death situation.
That's what training is about...not bragging on the internet. Experience is a valuable teacher...but as any experienced individual will tell you it really sucks to learn what doesn't work in the middle of a gunfight. That's why you train.
Smuckatelli
03-18-09, 22:58
I'm a showershoe here, still learning.
The posts so far pretty much mirror what I feel. I'll add in that going to a school and getting the t-shirt does not make someone an expert. Sometimes it means that they converted oxygen in a course for the required time.
@ Assaultman, I might be one of those types that you don't like. I bought my weapon strickly for shooting paper, nothing else. I had no idea that there were so many different types of ARs out here, I stuck with a Colt out of loyalty.
I want to teach my family marksmanship with the weapon that I learned from. I don't know where the President is going to take us, but now seemed like the best time to buy one before it could end up being impossible to get one.
I won't be putting any high speed low drag kiss me f&$% me gear on my rifle, maybe an ACOG once the family has mastered the iron sights.
I won't be attending some kind of high speed low drag door kicking classes.
I won't be stocking up for the sky to fall down, there's no way in hell I'm going to eat MREs.
I will be proud when my family starts to consistant V rings.
Ghostface03
03-18-09, 22:58
I am also here to learn. I have been trying to get a rifle for over a year due to $ issues among other things. Come tomorrow I will have mine. I want to be comfortable with my rifle by training hard. Sometimes it is a little intimidating to ask for help on the threads, avoid getting bashed. Have been sending pm's and emails lately though. Some really helpful, experienced people here.
Umm.....I'm assuming that you were in the Corps because of your title. All that training the Corps put you through? It was preparing you to deal with a life or death situation.
That's what training is about...not bragging on the internet. Experience is a valuable teacher...but as any experienced individual will tell you it really sucks to learn what doesn't work in the middle of a gunfight. That's why you train.
Yes I am in the Marines and I agree about the training. What I don't understand is why someone that will never need that kind of training will refer to it as more than a hobby.
John_Wayne777
03-18-09, 23:03
I am also here to learn. I have been trying to get a rifle for over a year due to $ issues among other things. Come tomorrow I will have mine. I want to be comfortable with my rifle by training hard. Sometimes it is a little intimidating to ask for help on the threads, avoid getting bashed. Have been sending pm's and emails lately though. Some really helpful, experienced people here.
Putting on my mod hat here for a minute, let me say this:
Questions are always welcome on M4C. This site exists to promote the exchange of GOOD information, especially to those who need the information most like beginners.
Do not hesitate to ask for help here. I would encourage you to use the search function to see what's already out there, but that doesn't mean you can't ask questions. People who ask legitimate questions in a legitimate effort to learn are doing exactly what we *WANT* them to do here.
If we catch people unjustly bashing somebody who is just seeking information the mods and staff will deal with them.
Generally if you show up with an open mind and a genuine desire to learn you'll get along just fine. The people who have the hardest time here are those who are pretty sure they have it all figured out. ;)
One of the reasons I'm here is to learn. I understand the issue of being a newb & I'm sure I'll ask questions that already have answers....many of which will be asked again in the future as the site continues to grow.
I'm a firm believer that ignorance is curable but stupid is forever.
What annoys me (and i'm talking for most hunting and shooting forums) are the regulars who go out of their way to be smart asses & insult, instead of answering a simple question or more importantly skipping the thread and moving along. Why is it so hard for some to be helpful or silent??
We should want to grow the sport we love...not drive them away. I see it more on hunting forums than shooting but it seems to be rapant. Gotta love the net and safety behind a keyboard.
rant over...
I could not even begin to count the number of times I've seen someone (in local shops) belittle someone else over shooting abilities (and equipment), and often they are missing the point they are trying to impress someone with. They seem to be trying to convence everyone around them that they are the 'best' that has ever been. This is a very hurtful attitude to have, it does not help grow the sport/hobby/ etc. And it is even more rampant on the 'net'.
Failure,
Thanks for starting this thread, I too was annoyed by a recent thread but did not want jump into an debate with a fool. I would only stoop to that level and then get beat with experience.
Like Artos said, you can't fix stupid.
Rant off, I'm out.
John_Wayne777
03-18-09, 23:11
Yes I am in the Marines and I agree about the training. What I don't understand is why someone that will never need that kind of training will refer to it as more than a hobby.
That's the root of the issue. "Never need that kind of training..." There are lots of people who do not fast rope out of blackhawk helicopters who find themselves in a life or death situation where they have to use lethal force to stop another human being from killing them.
In that moment it doesn't matter much whether that individual is a Sunni terrorist in Baghdad or an MS-13er sticking a gun in your face as a part of a gang initiation...the need to put the threat down as efficiently and effectively as possible is there. The skills necessary to do it are the same.
Yes, if combat is part of your job description then you have more of a need for training than others....but think about this:
Every Marine is a rifleman, right? And yet only a small percentage of the Corps is the "tip of the spear". Why bother to train support troops? Why bother to have cooks who can shoot expert with an M16?
...because the simple reality of the world we live in is that a low speed, high drag Marine can find himself in the middle of an ambush and might just have to fight his way out of it. Combat may not be his job description, but the bad guys don't just shoot at the super studs.
The exact same principle applies to law enforcement and civilians here in the states. A nutcase off his meds can kill you just as dead as an Iraqi insurgent. Thus learning how to deal with a lethal threat is a good idea whether you are kicking down doors in Baghdad or baking cookies in Ohio.
Yes I am in the Marines and I agree about the training. What I don't understand is why someone that will never need that kind of training will refer to it as more than a hobby.
As a Marine 03 several times over and one that continues to train them, nobody (including Marines) ever NEEDS that type of training until they need it very badly, right NOW. Ergo, it helps to get it ahead of time so you can at least fall to the lowest common denominator of what training you have had once you get hit with the adrenaline dump. That may still end up being "curl up and die," but at least the attempt is made. Is it so tough to comprehend why somebody might want to PT like they're training for a marathon, yet never run one? They probably think that they're netting some benefit, at no cost to anybody else.
On another hand, I think many would agree that those that investigate, procure, and receive training that they will "never need" are far more responsible about firearm ownership in general than the gap-toothed Jethros, suburban Afro-Saxon gangsta wannabes, and other dilettantes of all shades and types who purchase whatever caught their eye in the most recent right-wing action flick. These idiots figure they learned everything they needed to know when they saw the version of Punisher with the dude from Rome in it. Horrible movie, BTW.
In the same vein, that civilian self-defense practitioner (who may or may not have more high-end training) who is willing to talk down to an experienced combatant about "what it's like" to actually take down a building or bust a near ambush, or dismisses the input of a combatant because it doesn't profile with whatever course(s)...yeah, that guy immediately gets a punch right between his lamps.
ETA: In case it comes up...no, I'm NOT saying that I've sen that here. Elsewhere, hell yeah.
We could be here awhile talking about what annoys me...
How about when you go to a bar called Cowboys, and there are people there complaining about country music...
How about people who come into your living room and take a crap on the coffee table?
How about people who think there chosen service/mos and combat tour makes them an expert on EVERYTHING
see what I'm getting at.
F2S hit a lot of good points, as did others.
Training is a good thing, why you do it, or if its necessary for you is irrelevant. The more you know, the more you know. Not having to deal with POS equipment while attempting to learn something is also a good thing.
Comparing a 60 dollar import/knockoff part to the real deal that cost 4 times and has been accepted for service is ridiculous. As is claiming it's just as good as, and your paying for the name, even worse after having done nothing more then shoot a few rounds thru it on the flat range.
Most quality equipment has a name and reputation for a reason, how do you think it got the "Name"?
Bob
Yes I am in the Marines and I agree about the training. What I don't understand is why someone that will never need that kind of training will refer to it as more than a hobby.
I suppose one could make the argument that the farmers who fought the Revolutionary War, or the approximately 70% draftees that fought WW2 thought they would never need that kind of training, yet there they were.
Perhaps we should be careful of what we declare as need, as I'm sure our Govt is deciding what we need right now, and it probably does not jive with what you and I think we need.
Bob
What I don't understand is why someone that will never need that kind of training will refer to it as more than a hobby.
First, let me say that I, for one, genuinely appreciate your service to our country. I know that I wouldn't be here having this online debate otherwise. Having said that ...
When you do think is a good time to learn about threshold braking and controlling a vehicle in a skid? (pick one)
Before you get into an accident.
After you get into an accident.
Unless the Corps is now teaching Marines how to scry the future with crystal balls, I'm pretty sure neither you nor I can predict when or if any particular person will need shooting & tactical skills. Average people train for what's likely. Exceptional people train for what's possible.
Smuckatelli
03-19-09, 09:24
Unless the Corps is now teaching Marines how to scry the future with crystal balls
They aren't:D That's why our Marines, Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmen are loaded down with too much weight.:(
Things that annoy me include search nazis and threads like this.
First, let me say that I, for one, genuinely appreciate your service to our country. I know that I wouldn't be here having this online debate otherwise. Having said that ...
When you do think is a good time to learn about threshold braking and controlling a vehicle in a skid? (pick one)
Before you get into an accident.
After you get into an accident.
Unless the Corps is now teaching Marines how to scry the future with crystal balls, I'm pretty sure neither you nor I can predict when or if any particular person will need shooting & tactical skills. Average people train for what's likely. Exceptional people train for what's possible.
Hammer, nail, head.
Things that annoy me?
People that moan all the time about what annoys them.
Like the rest of us care...
John_Wayne777
03-19-09, 10:19
Things that annoy me?
People that moan all the time about what annoys them.
Like the rest of us care...
None of our SME's complain "all the time" about what annoys them.
What FTS is sharing is excellent advice.
Besides, the threads that spawned this one are enough to make the Pope cuss somebody out.
Ghostface03
03-19-09, 10:23
Putting on my mod hat here for a minute, let me say this:
Questions are always welcome on M4C. This site exists to promote the exchange of GOOD information, especially to those who need the information most like beginners.
Do not hesitate to ask for help here. I would encourage you to use the search function to see what's already out there, but that doesn't mean you can't ask questions. People who ask legitimate questions in a legitimate effort to learn are doing exactly what we *WANT* them to do here.
If we catch people unjustly bashing somebody who is just seeking information the mods and staff will deal with them.
Generally if you show up with an open mind and a genuine desire to learn you'll get along just fine. The people who have the hardest time here are those who are pretty sure they have it all figured out. ;)
Thanks man. I definitely use the hell out of the search function, pretty much a pro at it by now. Will definitely have some questions in the future though.
Thanks
Things that annoy me include search nazis and threads like this.
Yea! Because everyone should just answer your question, no matter that its been asked and answered before, numerous times, and often fairly recently.
Why should someone have to do a little work.
Bob
Things that annoy me:
Getting old and gradually losing my physically agility and flexibility.
Forgetting where I put my keys and glasses.
Losing my retirement money to greed and corruption.
Illegal drug users who complain about drug cartel violence.
Watching the county that I love change before my eyes in ways that are harmful to the values I believe in.
Whiners who express their entitlement to things right now that I had to work hard my whole life to earn.
Lack of personal responsibility for one's own situation.
Living beyond one's means, then complaining when it is time to pay the bill.
Religious extremists regardless of religion.
Lying and corrupt public officials.
And, just to get it back on topic, calling magazines clips, and referring to semiautomatic rifles as assault weapons.
Things that annoy me:
Getting old and gradually losing my physically agility and flexibility.
Forgetting where I put my keys and glasses.
Losing my retirement money to greed and corruption.
Illegal drug users who complain about drug cartel violence.
Watching the county that I love change before my eyes in ways that are harmful to the values I believe in.
Whiners who express their entitlement to things right now that I had to work hard my whole life to earn.
Lack of personal responsibility for one's own situation.
Living beyond one's means, then complaining when it is time to pay the bill.
Religious extremists regardless of religion.
Lying and corrupt public officials.
And, just to get it back on topic, calling magazines clips, and referring to semiautomatic rifles as assault weapons.
Yea, but that goes w/o saying;)
Bob
PRGGodfather
03-19-09, 12:26
1.) ALL anti-gun folks. ALL of them. Sometimes, this includes folks who own guns and judge other gun owners for having different preferences. Zumbo is an example. (Personally, I'm no fan of blackpowder, but I wholeheartedly defend to the death the right of any individual to like them, own them and use them.) Gun owners need to remember who the enemy really is. Arguing with each other as to why our preferences are more valid than others' furthers their cause.
2.) Folks who use "want" and "need" interchangeably. I need a lot less than I want. So long as we can pay for our wants and not reach into others' pockets, it should be no one else's business.
3.) Folks who argue preference as if preferences were principles. They are not. Principles tend not to change over time, whereas preferences and opinions often change with the times. The principle of training for the incident of encounter will not change over time. Training styles and which piece of kit is in vogue will change, to be sure.
4.) Folks who make choices, then suddenly feel the need to have their choices validated by other people, and then get upset when others have different choices or disagree with them. If YOU want to post YOUR preferences on the Internet and then ask others what they think about YOUR preferences -- remember YOU invited it. If you expected people to AGREE with you -- you're a dolt no matter what industry you work in, or what media you used to broadcast such preferences.
I am a dolt. I am also a veteran, an AD cop for over 23 years, retired SWAT member, AD police manager and an AD trainer for various platforms in various venues for various reasons. Depending on whom to which you speak, I get paid some pretty serious money to learn from others who know much more than I do -- so I prefer to be surrounded by people smarter than I am. It's good for business.
As to preferences, I prefer to be considered a serious student, who occasionally has to use these tools seriously, and I sincerely hope I and the people I care about (which includes the American people, in general) never have to NEED them for the most serious of encounters.
I would rather HAVE something and not NEED it, than NEED it and not HAVE it.
For the most part, I want what I want, and so long as it isn't illegal and I can afford it -- I don't care even a little bit about as to who validates my choice or opinion. I just hope I was humble enough to learn from those with even more experience than I that my choice was an informed one.
In the meantime, a lot of anti-gun folks are looking to make many of the tools (and training) I want illegal -- while some of us clack away on these keys and cry -- usually because someone disagreed with us.
There are a lot of good people on this board, and some humility as to learning betters all of us.
John_Wayne777
03-19-09, 12:31
I agree with surrounding yourself with people who are smarter than you. Otherwise your life can devolve into arguing over who is the tallest midget.
PR, we've got to get you out to a Vickers class or something in Virginia sometime.
Dinner is on me.
faithmyeyes
03-19-09, 12:37
I agree with surrounding yourself with people who are smarter than you. Otherwise your life can devolve into arguing over who is the tallest midget.
+1. A teacher of mine once called that phenomenon "pooling ignorance."
I am annoyed by folks that drive in the left lane when they are NOT PASSING.
I am annoyed when things you count on such as cars, furnaces, washer/dryer and many more break on you.
I am annoyed by not having money on the side.
I am annoyed by the fact that life costs so dang much. It's expensive to live today in society. Grizzly Adams had the right idea!
I am annoyed by the fact that I can't afford "the best" millitary equipment and get slammed from time to time for having what I can afford.
I am annoyed by the fact that I can't find ammo to buy.
I am annoyed by getting fatter as I get older. I'm just as active outside of work, yet the belly grows and the grey hair multiplies!
I am annoyed by my dog that will only shit on the blacktop driveway. WTF?
I am annoyed by my son who is as smart as any yet refuses to turn in homework and bring home D's and E's.
I am annoyed by gas key bolts not being staked properly. It's such a simple thing yet few do it in a way that is meaningfull.
I am annoyed by my Millet red dot optic using some bull crap battery that is unavailable that I have no clue how to buy. Also that I left it turned on in the safe for 2 weeks and killed the battery.
I am annoyed by cars with enough processing power to take over the world that can not get decent fuel economy.
I am annoyed by a govt that thinks it has to protect me by taking away my rights.
I am annoyed when teeth drag on skin. It ruins the entire thing.
PRGGodfather
03-19-09, 12:54
I agree with surrounding yourself with people who are smarter than you. Otherwise your life can devolve into arguing over who is the tallest midget.
PR, we've got to get you out to a Vickers class or something in Virginia sometime.
Dinner is on me.
I accept! I'm just upset that I missed Todd's class in Sacramento this last weekend! Of course, the recent birth of my second daughter kind of put a damper on it, so I was expected to get over it pretty quickly LOL!
Still, I have family in Richmond and Vienna, so when mommy and infant are ready for travel -- I will try to make it out there!
There is a much greater likelihood that I will come just to escape for a few days to prevent becoming a victim of postpartum hatred! LOL
Thanks, brother -- you're a good man -- no matter what anyone says about you!
Always the best,
Alan
I am annoyed by folks that drive in the left lane when they are NOT PASSING.
I am annoyed when things you count on such as cars, furnaces, washer/dryer and many more break on you.
I am annoyed by not having money on the side.
I am annoyed by the fact that life costs so dang much. It's expensive to live today in society. Grizzly Adams had the right idea!
I am annoyed by the fact that I can't afford "the best" millitary equipment and get slammed from time to time for having what I can afford.
I am annoyed by the fact that I can't find ammo to buy.
I am annoyed by getting fatter as I get older. I'm just as active outside of work, yet the belly grows and the grey hair multiplies!
I am annoyed by my dog that will only shit on the blacktop driveway. WTF?
I am annoyed by my son who is as smart as any yet refuses to turn in homework and bring home D's and E's.
I am annoyed by gas key bolts not being staked properly. It's such a simple thing yet few do it in a way that is meaningfull.
I am annoyed by my Millet red dot optic using some bull crap battery that is unavailable that I have no clue how to buy. Also that I left it turned on in the safe for 2 weeks and killed the battery.
I am annoyed by cars with enough processing power to take over the world that can not get decent fuel economy.
I am annoyed by a govt that thinks it has to protect me by taking away my rights.
I am annoyed when teeth drag on skin. It ruins the entire thing.
:D thats funny..
BTW, its not getting slammed for only purchasing what you can afford, but , and this may not be you, but, those that plau the "just as good as" game, when that is rarely the case.
Bob
I agree with surrounding yourself with people who are smarter than you. Otherwise your life can devolve into arguing over who is the tallest midget.
The very first lesson taught in the very first class on my very first day at college:
We all rise or fall to the level of those with whom we associate.
Or as I tell people about my marriage, in every couple there is someone who traded up and someone who traded down. My wife lost big time. :cool:
I got the CDD D-M4 by accident, the gun store owner talked me into it. He bent me over for it, but it is the only high quality AR I have. I have put about 1500 rounds through it, mostly *your gonna gag* Wolf. Of the 3 I own, this "feels" the best, shoots the best, and looks the best. It's a sharp riffle, no doubt.
I got the Stag because I really wanted to own 3, and it was $845 out the door for the Stag1L. I could not pass that up 3 months ago in December when prices were stupid. Plus being a 1L... Lefty... really piqued my interest as I am a left eye dominant shooter that shoots rifles South-Paw. I ended up really loving the Stag.
Then, a Bushmaster Carbon 15 came in that was used with a C-More tactical red dot. My wife had been asking about wanting to learn to shoot these rifles, and I talked to the gun store owner and he told me for $625 I could have it. No way could I pass that deal up.
The Bushmaster got a new Bushmaster BCG before I fired it because the cam pin was cracked. It has been fired about 60 times since then, but I'm not using it for my own shooting. It is the wife's and will wait for the days she decides to go out and play. Like when her boots wont get muddy.... she does not like standing in wet mud. I just don't get chicks. Been married for 15 years and still don't have a clue.
Then, about a month ago I sold some personal items and my local gun store got 20 Charles Daly Defense stripped lowers in. Just so happens that I also have a 3 year old son. Well, now he has a stripped lower to build when he grows up! It is in the safe resting.
I don't claim to know jack about a Colt....hell.... I have never seen a Colt AR aside from in pictures here or on other forums. I'm sure they are great, and instead of the rape I got for the CDD I should have gotten a Colt... but how would I have known. I did not know Colt from Yugo when I got my first AR. If I remember correctly I paid around $1400 for the CDD D-M4, that is most likely Colt territory.
Like some, I try to train myself and my oldest son to be the best we can be. I really don't hope to ever use any of these for defense, but if the highly unlikely event came to pass, I do wish to be at least better at home defense than the other guy(s) are at home offense! If not, I may be looking down from heaven to see my wife and daughter being raped and or killed, and my 2 son's getting killed.
I totally understand why we as vigilant gun owners wish to train ourselves to some level or another. It is our duty as firearm owners to know how to respect as well utilize our weapons. It is also our duty to attempt to spread good tidings to others that may show interest in firearms and try to be good ambassadors to our cause.
At the same time, I honestly do try to have fun with my toys. Both for my sake and my boys. I want him to have fond memories of him and his dear old dad spending hours out in the pasture shooting and talking. I also want him to learn to be safe, accurate, and responsable. He will one day be a man, and then I may not be there beside him to smack him in the side of the head and correct him. He must know by then, and he is well on his way there now. At 13 yrs old, he understands the situation to the extent that a 13 yr old can. I preach and preach, I ask the same questions over and over. I am brain washing him with the basic rules of firearm handleing.
Anyways, point is that we all set at different stations in life. We are not all equal, nor are we all the same. Each of us must do and decide what is the best for our situation, and we work with what God has given us.
If a man were to proudly show me his rusted and dented 1985 yugo and tell me it is his very finest car ever owned, I would lay a hand on his shoulder and smile warmly as we walked over to inspect his new found treasure. For him, it may be the greatest accomplishment of his life. Who am I to take that feeling away from him?
May peace and joy find each and every one of you!
Things that annoy me:
People who think they're hot shit because they have a $3000 AR and they go to every carbine class known to man. There is no need for an accountant to spend more time in the field than the office. More than likely, you will never use that training in an actual combat situation. There is no need to run mozambique drills on some schmo trying to steal your tv. You don't need a top of the line AR to protect your home. Well unless you're expecting to be raided by a squad of insurgents. A $200 870 will do the job just as well if not better. If you can afford it, and it gets your jollies off, by all means do it. Just know that until you use your super-tactical-ninja skills in a life defending situation, it's nothing more than a hobby and something to brag about on the internet. But don't shit on those who can't afford the "best", when you will never use yours for anything other than punching holes in man-shaped targets.
I think your village is looking for you.
C4
Yes I am in the Marines and I agree about the training. What I don't understand is why someone that will never need that kind of training will refer to it as more than a hobby.
How do you know that you will never need the training??? Do you have a crystal ball?
Kind of like knowing how to perform CPR. You will most likely NEVER need to know how to do it, but that one time you do, man you better know WTF your doing!
Defending ones life, the lives of ones family is not classified as a hobby (FYI).
C4
The very first lesson taught in the very first class on my very first day at college:
We all rise or fall to the level of those with whom we associate.
Or as I tell people about my marriage, in every couple there is someone who traded up and someone who traded down. My wife lost big time. :cool:
LOL, ya, I would say that your wife lost on that deal. :D
C4
LOL, ya, I would say that your wife lost on that deal. :D
Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, pot.
:p
QuickStrike
03-19-09, 16:42
Enlisted MIL and cops who think, "WTF does a civie need an AR for?!", gets my eyes rolling.
That and basic weapons training in Marines, Airforce, etc... from 10 years ago > any/all training available to civilians.
I don't like the fact that the average gun owner sucks at shooting, even though they will probably REALLY need the skill when the time comes.
I hate guns that don't run gud.
How do you know that you will never need the training??? Do you have a crystal ball?
Kind of like knowing how to perform CPR. You will most likely NEVER need to know how to do it, but that one time you do, man you better know WTF your doing!
Defending ones life, the lives of ones family is not classified as a hobby (FYI).
C4
So how many civilians have had to defend lives using failure to stop drills in a civilian enviroment? Fire and movement? Fire from cover? Moving to cover? Combat reload? Squad rushes? I'm not being a smartass, I'm just wondering. Short of a government takeover, invasion of the USA, or nuclear war, one can get the training they need for PRACTICAL home defence at a local range with a $200 shotgun, and be equipped. Not only better equipped for the situation, but also for the lawsuit to follow. You all want to talk about giving the liberals reasons to ban semi-automatic rifles, yet during a home invasion, you'll grab your decked out M4gery loaded with 30 rounds of TAP and put 2 in the chest and 1 in the head to stop one threat. Talk about feeding the lefties. So yeah, building, collecting, and modifying ARs, along with going to carbine classes, is a hobby. Training on weapons is essential. Having the right equipment that suits you is essential. But as with everything in life, there's a such thing as proficient, and then there's overkill. How many train with rounds coming back at them? You do know that that DOES happen right? Or do you expect the threat to stand there like a silhouette that you've been training with? As for the CPR thing, I'm pretty sure a lot more peoples lives are saved every year by CPR than from a civi that knows combat maneuvers with a rifle. But you're the one that thinks I'm the idiot. That's slightly amusing.
John_Wayne777
03-19-09, 17:41
How many train with rounds coming back at them? You do know that that DOES happen right?
I don't think you'll find many civilian, military, or LE organizations who are going to train people by having people shoot live rounds at them. There's kind of a big downside to that approach.
Or do you expect the threat to stand there like a silhouette that you've been training with?
There's a thread stickied at the top of this forum where you can see some of the training backgrounds some of the screen names around here have. You should read it.
So how many civilians have had to defend lives using failure to stop drills in a civilian enviroment? Fire and movement? Fire from cover? Moving to cover? Combat reload? Squad rushes? I'm not being a smartass, I'm just wondering. Short of a government takeover, invasion of the USA, or nuclear war, one can get the training they need for PRACTICAL home defence at a local range with a $200 shotgun, and be equipped. Not only better equipped for the situation, but also for the lawsuit to follow.
I am sure tons of ccw holders & home defenders have used all of those techniques (less the squad rushes as most of us are operating alone).
Are you familar w/ what the 2A is for?
Yes, a SG is just fine for home defense. Can you get a basic operator class at your local range? Maybe, but generally not. Also, $200 a day fee is what most of the high end instructors charge (fyi) so I would hope you could find cheaper classes at your local range! Something tells me though that you really have no idea.
Can you tell me how many people have been sued while defending their home? Your argument about using a SG for home defense because you are less likely to be sued is really quite stupid.
You all want to talk about giving the liberals reasons to ban semi-automatic rifles, yet during a home invasion, you'll grab your decked out M4gery loaded with 30 rounds of TAP and put 2 in the chest and 1 in the head to stop one threat. Talk about feeding the lefties. So yeah, building, collecting, and modifying ARs, along with going to carbine classes, is a hobby.
Dude, I really hate to break this to you, but libs don't want you to USE ANY gun to defend yourself so it really does not matter!
Training on weapons is essential. Having the right equipment that suits you is essential. But as with everything in life, there's a such thing as proficient, and then there's overkill. How many train with rounds coming back at them? You do know that that DOES happen right? Or do you expect the threat to stand there like a silhouette that you've been training with?
Being proficient is very important & this is where training comes in.
I do not believe that anyone that attends shooting schools is the least bit confused about happens when the shooting starts.
As for the CPR thing, I'm pretty sure a lot more peoples lives are saved every year by CPR than from a civi that knows combat maneuvers with a rifle. But you're the one that thinks I'm the idiot. That's slightly amusing.
I am not sure why you think this is just about training with a rifle?
I have never had to use CPR, but have been shot at and have to pull a gun on someone. So you tell me.
C4
Smuckatelli
03-19-09, 18:21
[QUOTE=QuickStrike;332587]Enlisted MIL and cops who think, "WTF does a civie need an AR for?!", gets my eyes rolling./QUOTE]
That annoys me...stereotyping enlisted & cops...I take it the Officer s are good to go?
John_Wayne777
03-19-09, 18:25
[QUOTE=QuickStrike;332587]Enlisted MIL and cops who think, "WTF does a civie need an AR for?!", gets my eyes rolling./QUOTE]
That annoys me...stereotyping enlisted & cops...I take it the Officer s are good to go?
I think he means "active duty". ;)
[QUOTE=QuickStrike;332587]Enlisted MIL and cops who think, "WTF does a civie need an AR for?!", gets my eyes rolling./QUOTE]
That annoys me...stereotyping enlisted & cops...I take it the Officer s are good to go?
He didn't stereotype all cops and enlisted as thinking that way...he said the ones who do think that way get his eyes rolling.
Smuckatelli
03-19-09, 18:33
So how many civilians have had to defend lives using failure to stop drills in a civilian enviroment? Fire and movement? Fire from cover? Moving to cover? Combat reload? Squad rushes? I'm not being a smartass, I'm just wondering.
Talk about feeding the lefties. So yeah, building, collecting, and modifying ARs, along with going to carbine classes, is a hobby. Training on weapons is essential. Having the right equipment that suits you is essential. But as with everything in life, there's a such thing as proficient, and then there's overkill. How many train with rounds coming back at them? You do know that that DOES happen right? Or do you expect the threat to stand there like a silhouette that you've been training with? As for the CPR thing, I'm pretty sure a lot more peoples lives are saved every year by CPR than from a civi that knows combat maneuvers with a rifle. But you're the one that thinks I'm the idiot. That's slightly amusing.
0351, you really need to cool your jets or get a girlfriend; why you think us civies are wasting our money, maybe you should become proficient in your MOS.:
BILLET: Assistant Gunner, Assault Section, Weapons Platoon
The Assistant Gunner carries out orders from the Gunner. He is responsible for the loading of the SMAW, spotting round impact and corrections for the Gunner, and security for the assault squad. He is also trained in the MK-153 SMAW, APOBS (knowledge of), and demolitions. His rank is Private thru Lance Corporal. His T/O weapon is the service rifle/carbine.
BILLET: Team Leader/Gunner, Assault Section, Weapons Platoon
The assault Team Leader carries out orders from the Section Leader, or the unit commander. He is responsible for the discipline, appearance, training, control, conduct, and welfare of his team at all times, as well as the condition, care, and economical use of his weapons and equipment. He is also responsible for the tactical employment, fire discipline, fire control, and maneuver of his team. He is also trained in APOBS and demolitions. His rank is a Lance Corporal. His T/O weapon is the service rifle/carbine and SMAW.
BILLET: Squad Leader/Team Leader/Gunner, Assault Section, Weapons Platoon
The assault Squad Leader carries out orders from the Section Leader, or the unit commander. He is responsible for the discipline, appearance, training, control, conduct, and welfare of his squad at all times, as well as the condition, care, and economical use of his weapons and equipment. He is also responsible for the tactical employment, fire discipline, fire control, and maneuver of his squad. He is also trained in APOBS and advanced demolitions. His rank is a Corporal. His T/O weapon is the service rifle/carbine and SMAW.
BILLET: Section Leader, Assault Section, Weapons Platoon
The assault Section Leader carries out orders from the unit commander. He is responsible for the discipline, appearance, training, control, conduct, and welfare of his squads at all times, as well as the condition, care, and economical use of their weapons and equipment. He is also responsible for the tactical employment, fire discipline, fire control, and maneuver of his section. He is also trained in APOBS and advanced demolitions. His rank is a Sergeant. His T/O weapon is the Service Rifle/carbine.
Marine, leadership entails many traits.
Maybe come here and mentor with you experiences, you represent the Corps 24/7
Smuckatelli
03-19-09, 18:35
[QUOTE=Smuckatelli;332632]
He didn't stereotype all cops and enlisted as thinking that way...he said the ones who do think that way get his eyes rolling.
:) Like I said...dat dar annoys me ;):p
[QUOTE=Palmguy;332638]
:) Like I said...dat dar annoys me ;):p
Why?.
Smuckatelli
03-19-09, 18:57
[QUOTE=Smuckatelli;332645]
Why?.
It's not finger nails on chalk board type annoying.......it's just a pimple on the back type annoying.
I'm stuck managing contracts that reach out to the Phd bubbas of the world, generally they have this preconceived notion that the Enlisted are a bunch of knuckledraggers. Initially, on first contact with Marines, many times they won't talk to a Marine below field grade.
A $200 870.....
I just wanna know where you can still find one of these. THAT is what annoys me.
Not only better equipped for the situation, but also for the lawsuit to follow.
What is your basis for this sweeping statement? How many cases have you tried or litigated?
So how many civilians have had to defend lives using failure to stop drills in a civilian enviroment? Fire and movement? Fire from cover? Moving to cover? Combat reload? Squad rushes? I'm not being a smartass, I'm just wondering. Short of a government takeover, invasion of the USA, or nuclear war, one can get the training they need for PRACTICAL home defence at a local range with a $200 shotgun, and be equipped. Not only better equipped for the situation, but also for the lawsuit to follow. You all want to talk about giving the liberals reasons to ban semi-automatic rifles, yet during a home invasion, you'll grab your decked out M4gery loaded with 30 rounds of TAP and put 2 in the chest and 1 in the head to stop one threat. Talk about feeding the lefties. So yeah, building, collecting, and modifying ARs, along with going to carbine classes, is a hobby. Training on weapons is essential. Having the right equipment that suits you is essential. But as with everything in life, there's a such thing as proficient, and then there's overkill. How many train with rounds coming back at them? You do know that that DOES happen right? Or do you expect the threat to stand there like a silhouette that you've been training with? As for the CPR thing, I'm pretty sure a lot more peoples lives are saved every year by CPR than from a civi that knows combat maneuvers with a rifle. But you're the one that thinks I'm the idiot. That's slightly amusing.
If this is how you think, you're most likely on the wrong forum, since the majority of members here would fall into the category that you seem to have so much arrogant disdain for.
I don't see the point or the gain in beating on USMC0351 in this thread. So he has a different opinion than some of ya all, he is free to have that opinion. Just agree to disagree and leave it be. No need to hang him from a cross and bleed him dry for a personal point of view. It won't hurt you to allow another human to have a different opinion.
That annoys me! (Refering to the "What annoys you" thread!)
Peace and harmony. Love, not war. Whatever, just be happy!
I don't see the point or the gain in beating on USMC0351 in this thread. So he has a different opinion than some of ya all, he is free to have that opinion. Just agree to disagree and leave it be. No need to hang him from a cross and bleed him dry for a personal point of view. It won't hurt you to allow another human to have a different opinion.
There's another website for people with his point of view. Actually I can think of two.
In re-reading some of his previous posts I now have a better understanding of why he thinks the way he does.
Mr.Goodtimes
03-19-09, 20:36
liberals annoy me :rolleyes:
Wow. So everyone that is a member here needs to follow a basic set of moral standards or that person is ushered off to another site. That seems a bit harsh. I like to pick my fights and not sweat the small stuff. To each thier own, I won't post in this one again....I'll leave the hate and disention to others.
There is no need to run Mozambique drills on some schmo trying to steal your TV.
I disagree. I am by no means promoting vigilantism, so I am not saying go hunt someone down, but if you catch someone in the act well.... Lets face it, we trade time in our life for money. So in essence if you make 10 dollars an hour and that TV the crook is stealing costs 100 dollars, then they have just stolen 10 hours of your life. Lets not forget that that person decided that their life is worth whatever is in your home. They entered uninvited, you did not set a trap and wait for them.
So how many civilians have had to defend lives using failure to stop drills in a civilian enviroment? Fire and movement? Fire from cover? Moving to cover? Combat reload?
Apparently more than you realize or know about. But hey, don't worry if you could not think of something or know about it, how could it possibly have happened?:rolleyes:
SeriousStudent
03-19-09, 21:05
1.) ........
As to preferences, I prefer that I be considered a serious student, who occasionally has to use these things seriously, and I sincerely hope I and the people I care about (which includes Americans, in general) never have to NEED them for the most serious of encounters.
.........
And people ask me why I have this screen name......... ;)
Thank you, sir. Best regards to you and your family.
past and present include Kyo-kushin kai kan, Tae kwon do, Aikido. Bowling (210+ league avg), tennis when I have the time, listening to my music collection (on a $14,000 stereo system). Oh and lest I forget my newest, taking training classes
for my CDM4LE, Colt upper/S&Wlower M4 , XD-45's, Colt Commander, Rem870 shotgun.
However, I'll just pickup the phone and call 9-11 if my house is the next chosen
target of the rash of multiple assailant home invaders in the south palm bch area.:rolleyes:
Or I could bowl them over with my $200 bowling ball;)
There's nothing more absurd than some kid on the internet seeing a picture of an AD SEAL and complaining about how much "shit" is on his rifle.
Nobody needs an excuse or has to apologize for poking fun at a SEAL. :D
Yes I am in the Marines...
You are "in" the Marines or you are a Marine? There is a difference.
Every Marine is a rifleman, right? And yet only a small percentage of the Corps is the "tip of the spear".
Get your stuff together there, JW -- the Marine Corps is the tip of the spear!
How about when you go to a bar called Cowboys, and there are people there complaining about country music...
Um, that'd be me... :o
So how many civilians have had to defend lives using failure to stop drills in a civilian enviroment? Fire and movement? Fire from cover? Moving to cover? Combat reload? Squad rushes?
Here's a newsflash: a lot of that "high speed" training you're quoting was imported into the military from the civilian side of the house. Prior to Iraq/Astan, the military hadn't been doing a whole lot of shooting since Vietnam. Some of us are old enough to remember the Cold War.
You're definitely in the wrong crowd to be spouting off about what training civilians need and don't need. That's not your prerogative. Now please, recover your bearing and stop embarrassing yourself and the Marine Corps on this site.
Short of a government takeover, invasion of the USA, or nuclear war, one can get the training they need for PRACTICAL home defence at a local range with a $200 shotgun, and be equipped.
http://9x19mm.com/photoalbum/albums/userpics/normal_motivator9863232.jpg
Wow. So everyone that is a member here needs to follow a basic set of moral standards or that person is ushered off to another site. That seems a bit harsh. I like to pick my fights and not sweat the small stuff. To each thier own, I won't post in this one again....I'll leave the hate and disention to others.
You like to pick your fights, but you decided to post here to bitch?
Look, the internet is a big place. Not all websites are for all people. Some sites are going to cater to the collector, some to the competitor, some to the internet picture-poster, some to the professional cop or soldier, some to the plinker, and some to the self-defense minded enthusiast.
With only so much time in the day to read and post, why would anyone waste that time on a site where they think the majority of the membership is living in fantasy land? Just to post and take the piss out of them? If that's the case, you can hardly bitch when the grownups don't like it and have to resort to spanking the children.
Which is ultimately the problem here. Our young protagonist is a child. A child that appears to have seen and done a lot, but a child nonetheless. Let him establish himself in life with a career, a wife, kids, and other responsibilities and things worth protecting and see if his point of view changes. Let him see a bit more about the way things really work in modern America and not just some turd-world country. Right now he's just another punk kid that thinks he knows everything about the way life, and the world, works.
QuickStrike
03-20-09, 04:43
He didn't stereotype all cops and enlisted as thinking that way...he said the ones who do think that way get his eyes rolling.
Yup. I respect them a lot for doing things that I can't; but the truth is, not everyone who serves or serves/protects cares about civies owning guns.
I've gotten weird looks and, "Why do you need an assault rifle?!".
=
All the more awesome are the pro's who are willing to share knowledge.
USMC0351,
When and why did you join M4C? Is there any reason that you joined this site as opposed to AR15.com or some other similar site? I think if you go back and and read why this site was started and what its goals are, then you would understand a little better. You say that an accountant will never need to spend xxx amount on an AR and will never have to use any skills, but how do you know that? Some people here actually take their weapons and gear seriously as well as their training. Though they may not be on the "front lines" as you potentially could be they believe that having good gear and proper training is the right thing to do.
BTW- I have several AR's and the combine cost of two of them probably is just under $3000 so I am unsure as to where you got your figure from. Those that have read my posts here know that my philosophy on weapons is that a weapon should serve a particluar purpose. My AR's aren't for punching paper- they are for punching a threat, whether it be 2 legged or 4. Same goes for my pistols and shotguns. My 10/22 is for my son to learn how to shoot and to understand the basics. It is also used for plinking. I have no other intention of using it for anything else.
Do I need 15K rounds of ammo, a PEQ2A, an AN/PVS-14 or body armor? No probably not. But, I when I purchased these items they were needed and though they have served their purpose I choose to keep them to be prepared down the road. If that rubs you the wrong way there are plenty of other websites that you can join that will make you feel better about yourself.
Things that annoy me:
People who think they're hot shit because they have a $3000 AR and they go to every carbine class known to man. There is no need for an accountant to spend more time in the field than the office. More than likely, you will never use that training in an actual combat situation. There is no need to run mozambique drills on some schmo trying to steal your tv. You don't need a top of the line AR to protect your home. Well unless you're expecting to be raided by a squad of insurgents. A $200 870 will do the job just as well if not better. If you can afford it, and it gets your jollies off, by all means do it. Just know that until you use your super-tactical-ninja skills in a life defending situation, it's nothing more than a hobby and something to brag about on the internet. But don't shit on those who can't afford the "best", when you will never use yours for anything other than punching holes in man-shaped targets.
Now please, recover your bearing and stop embarrassing yourself and the Marine Corps on this site.
Thanks, you said it alot better than I could.
[QUOTE=RWK;332744]
Get your stuff together there, JW -- the Marine Corps is the tip of the spear!
That REALLY annoys me
Um, that'd be me... :o
Then go to club "Flava"
QUOTE]
I don't see the point or the gain in beating on USMC0351 in this thread. So he has a different opinion than some of ya all, he is free to have that opinion. Just agree to disagree and leave it be. No need to hang him from a cross and bleed him dry for a personal point of view. It won't hurt you to allow another human to have a different opinion.
That annoys me! (Refering to the "What annoys you" thread!)
Peace and harmony. Love, not war. Whatever, just be happy!
It has nothing to do with a different opinion (that is always welcome). It is when you tell people what they "need" or "should" have. That is a big no no.
What USMC0351 fails to realize is that a good many on this forum are either active duty, Cops or ex-military. We do not need anyone to tell us what we need. ;)
C4
So how many civilians have had to defend lives using failure to stop drills in a civilian enviroment? Fire and movement? Fire from cover? Moving to cover? Combat reload?....blah blah blah
What annoys me? This guy annoys me.
Matt Edwards
03-20-09, 08:41
USMC0351 is young, he is just not tracking. Give him time though. I'm just amused that he asked us why we want the best equiment and training. Comming from a GI, that is kinda silly. He has got to know better...dosen't he?
"The Marine Corps is the tip of the spear."
They are the tip of the spear. Along with everyone else who is on it. I guess it should read "tips of the spear."
Smuckatelli
03-20-09, 09:03
There is nothing wrong with 0351, his opinions should be valued, his experience is valued and very much appreciated.
A Marine will never back down.
We, as civilians should never want a Marine to back down.
We, as civilians should listen to what he says and not get offended.
We, as civilians should offer our experience and not get offended when he thinks we are idiots.
We, as civilians should mentor.
0351 is a valuable asset.
I get the impression that USMC0351 is one of those "look at my little Johnny - he is the only one in step" sort of folks.
Now that’s fine, as I think at one time we where all out of step with the rest of the formation. I know my first few years of the Military, I enjoyed it and did not take it to seriously (I'm the proverbial class clown).
However in early 1993 I had a little incident that made me realize that life and death is part of the job.
What annoys me is the people including Soldiers, Marines, etc. Who don't take training seriously enough -- because sadly they are going to learn the hard way...
Nathan_Bell
03-20-09, 09:27
I get the impression that USMC0351 is one of those "look at my little Johnny - he is the only one in step" sort of folks.
Now that’s fine, as I think at one time we where all out of step with the rest of the formation. I know my first few years of the Military, I enjoyed it and did not take it to seriously (I'm the proverbial class clown).
However in early 1993 I had a little incident that made me realize that life and death is part of the job.
What annoys me is the people including Soldiers, Marines, etc. Who don't take training seriously enough -- because sadly they are going to learn the hard way...
but they might not be the ones who pay the piper.
Which is something that annoys me, someone else's F***up causing me grief.
There is nothing wrong with 0351, his opinions should be valued, his experience is valued and very much appreciated.
A Marine will never back down.
We, as civilians should never want a Marine to back down.
We, as civilians should listen to what he says and not get offended.
We, as civilians should offer our experience and not get offended when he thinks we are idiots.
We, as civilians should mentor.
0351 is a valuable asset.
Oh, brother:rolleyes:
Bob
There is nothing wrong with 0351, his opinions should be valued, his experience is valued and very much appreciated.
A Marine will never back down.
We, as civilians should never want a Marine to back down.
We, as civilians should listen to what he says and not get offended.
We, as civilians should offer our experience and not get offended when he thinks we are idiots.
We, as civilians should mentor.
0351 is a valuable asset.
0351 may develop to be an asset, and I stress may, but right now he is far from it. Not backing down is a good trait on a Marine, but so is having the intelligence to be able to carry a civilized conversation without being argumentative. By reading his posts you can clearly see that he believes his views are always correct regardless or how much advice or mentoring anyone else offers.
S/F
Matt Edwards
03-20-09, 10:33
I don't expect him to back down. Just as I don't expect a Soldier, Sailor or Airman to back down.
Nor do I expect any American to back down.
The point is that he doesn't have a lock on any of the topics he speaks of. He has his experience and his opinions...like the rest of us. He speaks as though he has got this. We are just letting him know that around here, although God bless him for his service, he is barking up the wrong tree.
My time in the Army taught me to go big or go home. It taught me buy cheap buy twice. It taught me that when the time comes, good enough, isn't.
I don't expect him to back down. Just as I don't expect a Soldier, Sailor or Airman to back down.
Nor do I expect any American to back down.
The point is that he doesn't have a lock on any of the topics he speaks of. He has his experience and his opinions...like the rest of us. He speaks as though he has got this. We are just letting him know that around here, although God bless him for his service, he is barking up the wrong tree.
My time in the Army taught me to go big or go home. It taught me buy cheap buy twice. It taught me that when the time comes, good enough, isn't.
AMEN BROTHER
John_Wayne777
03-20-09, 10:55
A Marine will never back down.
We're not talking about Iwo Jima, here....
Everybody has limits to their knowledge and experience. The key is to recognize those limits and to listen to people who might have a better grasp on something than we do. On this site I regularly hit the limits of my knowledge and experience and in such a situation I endeavor to shut up and listen to the people in the room who are smarter than me.
I don't expect him to back down. Just as I don't expect a Soldier, Sailor or Airman to back down.
Nor do I expect any American to back down.
The point is that he doesn't have a lock on any of the topics he speaks of. He has his experience and his opinions...like the rest of us. He speaks as though he has got this. We are just letting him know that around here, although God bless him for his service, he is barking up the wrong tree.
My time in the Army taught me to go big or go home. It taught me buy cheap buy twice. It taught me that when the time comes, good enough, isn't.
What was it you said,....
"When the flashbang goes off, you may find yourself wanting something better".
Bob
[QUOTE=RWK;332744]
Get your stuff together there, JW -- the Marine Corps is the tip of the spear!
That REALLY annoys me
Must be a SEAL... :D
[QUOTE=RWK;332744]Um, that'd be me... :o
Then go to club "Flava"
QUOTE]
But, then I couldn't make fun of country music... :(
Somehow, I don't think this is what F2S had in mind when he started this thread.
John_Wayne777
03-20-09, 11:31
Somehow, I don't think this is what F2S had in mind when he started this thread.
Probably not.
It's become sort of like the spit valve in a trumpet at this point. :D
Smuckatelli
03-20-09, 11:46
[QUOTE]=John_Wayne777;333035]We're not talking about Iwo Jima, here..../[QUOTE]
I was exploiting a gap, everyone is attacking surfaces.
HiggsBoson
03-20-09, 13:02
Somehow, I don't think this is what F2S had in mind when he started this thread.
Probably not.
It's become sort of like the spit valve in a trumpet at this point. :D
There are whole sites that match that excellent description...
Even here at M4C I think it's wise to have an occasional "spit valve" thread like this one, and "dumbest things overheard...", et cetera. Anyone who wants to vent can do so therein. Anyone done with it can get back to the main monkey business one thread over. If there were no threads like these, you would end up getting more of the snarky commentary in the technical threads instead.
/$ .02
0351 may develop to be an asset, and I stress may, but right now he is far from it. Not backing down is a good trait on a Marine, but so is having the intelligence to be able to carry a civilized conversation without being argumentative. By reading his posts you can clearly see that he believes his views are always correct regardless or how much advice or mentoring anyone else offers.
S/F
I'm not sure if you actually read my posts, because I have been civilized about this whole little ordeal. I was basically called the villiage idiot by a supposed Industry "Professional". I was degraded for buying a $60 piece of aluminum that does the exact same thing as a $400 piece of aluminum(minus being free-floated). Basically told not to speak of botach on here, when I got better service from them, than from a highly respected business on here. I've been shit on throughout this whole thread and the one I started because I speak my opinion on home defense and defensive training. People get butthurt because of my views of what kind of reasonable training a civilian in a civilian enviroment should need. I haven't stooped to name-calling or insulting, because I graduated from grade school years ago.
I'm not sure if you actually read my posts, because I have been civilized about this whole little ordeal. I was basically called the villiage idiot by a supposed Industry "Professional". I was degraded for buying a $60 piece of aluminum that does the exact same thing as a $400 piece of aluminum(minus being free-floated). Basically told not to speak of botach on here, when I got better service from them, than from a highly respected business on here. I've been shit on throughout this whole thread and the one I started because I speak my opinion on home defense and defensive training. People get butthurt because of my views of what kind of reasonable training a civilian in a civilian enviroment should need. I haven't stooped to name-calling or insulting, because I graduated from grade school years ago.
I took the time to read the posts, that is why I wrote what I wrote. Guess what Devil, no one here is impressed by whatever operational experience you may have. This forum is made up of proffesionals in LE and MIL fields so here you are the norm not the exception. Conduct yourself in a civilized manner and you won't catch as much flak. Many of the members have tried to offer advice and you just shrug it off as being from "hobbyists" for reasons that are beyond me. Who are you to tell someone what they should use to defend their homes or their loved ones or what amount of training they should receive. I am sure that the majority of those that you disregard as being hobbyist would show you up any time on the range. But hey, as clearly seen by your posts, you have it all figured out. If you want to continue this, feel free to PM me so that we no longer derail this thread any longer.
S/F
Gutshot John
03-20-09, 16:57
I'm not sure if you actually read my posts, because I have been civilized about this whole little ordeal. I was basically called the villiage idiot by a supposed Industry "Professional". I was degraded for buying a $60 piece of aluminum that does the exact same thing as a $400 piece of aluminum(minus being free-floated).
degraded? I think you were laughed at a bit, but if you got thin-skin you're gonna bleed...believe me I know. That said, at one point in my life when I didn't know any better, I bought the exact same piece of gear and it was junk. Torqued my gas-tube nicely. Now I've heard they've recently upgraded the quality but seriously, you put it on your gun and fired how many rounds before you decided it was adequate?
Basically if I had known you want the Botach model, I'd have sent you mine for the cost of shipping.
Basically told not to speak of botach on here, when I got better service from them, than from a highly respected business on here.
I'm gonna call BS on that, given that one of the mods works for Botach. You may have got better service this time, but the experiences of others doesn't match yours. Why is their experience less valid than yours and why are you making it about you? You got argued with because you made a claim that was dubious at best. Are you so paranoid that you think that it's because a competitor of Botach marshalled its minions to denounce you publicly? Please.
Seriously brother, the first rule when one finds himself in a hole is to stop digging.
I took the time to read the posts, that is why I wrote what I wrote. Guess what Devil, no one here is impressed by whatever operational experience you may have. This forum is made up of proffesionals in LE and MIL fields so here you are the norm not the exception. Conduct yourself in a civilized manner and you won't catch as much flak. Many of the members have tried to offer advice and you just shrug it off as being from "hobbyists" for reasons that are beyond me. Who are you to tell someone what they should use to defend their homes or their loved ones or what amount of training they should receive. I am sure that the majority of those that you disregard as being hobbyist would show you up any time on the range. But hey, as clearly seen by your posts, you have it all figured out. If you want to continue this, feel free to PM me so that we no longer derail this thread any longer.
S/F
Alright there jimmy, you want to point me in the direction to where I've mentioned my operational history? I've been just as, if not more, civilized than half the guys that have responded to this thread.
I'm gonna call BS on that, given that one of the mods works for Botach. You may have got better service this time, but the experiences of others doesn't match yours. Why is their experience less valid than yours and why are you making it about you? You got argued with because you made a claim that was dubious at best. Are you so paranoid that you think that it's because a competitor of Botach marshalled its minions to denounce you publicly? Please.
Seriously brother, the first rule when one finds himself in a hole is to stop digging.
How mature of you to call BS on something you have no idea about. Why would I base my opinion on someone elses experience and not on my own firsthand accounts? I'm not paranoid about anything. My only time dealing with botach, I had no problems. Yet people here dislike them. My only time dealing with the other business I spoke of, I got a poor opinion of them based on their actions, or more appropriately, inactions. Yet people here respect them and point all the new guys his way. So I base my own personal opinions on my personal accounts. Not anyone elses.
Gutshot John
03-20-09, 17:16
How mature of you to call BS on something you have no idea about.
I guess you didn't bother to read my post...or at least didn't bother to try and understand.
Good luck to you.
Alright there jimmy, you want to point me in the direction to where I've mentioned my operational history? I've been just as, if not more, civilized than half the guys that have responded to this thread.
The fact that you don't see it only makes it more obvious. It is the tone and the remarks you make that have landed you in this situation. You claim to have behaved in a civilized manner but you speak of others in a demeaning manner. Stop silhouetting yourself and things will go more smoothly.
S/F
As a low speed civy i would very much like to thank 0351 for his service.
But as low speed as i may be...
I know that you cant go arround declaring budget items made by an airsoft company to be "as good as" well respected and proven gear after a few minutes of fingering it.
Trying to justify such conclusions by shitting on others who take things more seriously isnt going to go over too well either apparently(who knew?).
I've been shit on throughout this whole thread and the one I started because I speak my opinion on home defense and defensive training.
If a group made up of experienced, knowledgeable professional tends to "shit on" you when you voice your opinion, you may want to re-think your opinion rather than defend it blindly, deafly, and rather dumbly.
People get butthurt because of my views of what kind of reasonable training a civilian in a civilian enviroment should need.
I believe if you read back through the thread, the only one who seems "butthurt" is you, dude.
You can keep banging your head against the wall until your skull cracks open, but the wall isn't going to budge.
If a group made up of experienced, knowledgeable professional tends to "shit on" you when you voice your opinion, you may want to re-think your opinion rather than defend it blindly, deafly, and rather dumbly.
Change my opinion? That's what makes in MY opinion. A large group of America's people's opinions think that Obama should be president. Does that make them more experienced, knowledgable professionals than those that don't? Should we all change our opinions because of that? Same concept bud.
Same concept bud.
Well, at least you are consistent. I'm done.
Failure2Stop
03-20-09, 18:14
In my short and boring life I have learned a few lessons. One of the applicable ones is that ignoring the advice of those more experienced and effective then me is probably not going to work out to my betterment.
I am not the best anything on this board, just as much as I am not a clueless malcontent that only writes stuff here to insult or deride. I like to share what I know and learn from others with the same outlook.
Some people choose to tenaciously cling to a belief based off of incompetant advice or insufficient experience even when presented a series of facts and relevant opinion.
And that annoys me.
If my little rant (sprinkled with tidbits of what I thought to be decent advice) annoys you, isn't it just a little hypocritical to write a response? But hey guys, I wrote the thing, and telling me that I am irrelevant is simply a response that I invited, I'll get over it.
This thread definately took a turn away from a discussion that I thought might be fun, interesting, and informative, but that's why I put it in GD. Apologies to anyone that is losing sleep over this, but really, get over it.
A large group of America's people's opinions think that Obama should be president. Does that make them more experienced, knowledgable professionals than those that don't? Should we all change our opinions because of that? Same concept bud.
Ummm....
No, it makes them misguided and ill-informed.
Same concept :rolleyes:
USMC0351,
I am sitting here shaking my head. I am annoyed that instead of relaxing with my wife that I am posting from an iPhone to shut down a thread.
Trolling is not allowed, and while we cannot penalize you for being stupid, I do not believe for an instant that you are as you portray. As such I must conclude you are trolling.
edit
*USMC0351 was temp banned due to accumulated infractions.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.