View Full Version : Forearm Mounted Optics
Mr.Goodtimes
03-25-09, 18:00
guys i searched the optics section and couldnt find anything. From what i understand, mounting optics on the forearm of your weapon is not looked upon with very high regard here.
I have a TROY DI rail system on my ar and its ROCK SOLID, the thing is tight, doesent budge. so why would that make an ineffective platform to mount my eotech on? i put the eotech out there just to see how it would be and, it seems to make the gun point really really well.
would it not be wise to mount the optic on my rail?
-Ryan
Why would you want that much weight on the front of the gun?
Mr.Goodtimes
03-25-09, 19:23
its not that i want a bunch of weight on the front of the gun, it just makes the gun seem to point really well. i didnt notice any crazy shift in weight however
I'm not telling you what to do, but go out and shoot the rifle for a couple of hours with the optics over the front like that...your support hand is gonna be mighty sore.
I had a 11.5" LMT w/ a Vltor CASV set up with an eotech 552 over the barrel, and IMHO, it was very front heavy. You want the rifle to balance. Try and manage a good mag change with a very front heavy gun...it isn't fun.
Mr.Goodtimes
03-25-09, 20:18
i understand, that makes sense. im going to order an American Defense eotech riser mount, i think that whats impeding my field of view right now is my BUIS. I have a regular FSB with a chopped carry handel for a BUIS, and as a result it cowitnesses completely with the eotech, and sort of makes things look cluttered. i think once the BUIS is in the bottom 1/3 that will clear things up a bit.
I'll let you make your own mind up about any potential weight/balance issues, but main problem with the arrangement you describe is that the drop-in, non-free-float handguards, despite locking up tightly, can and will shift with usage. Zeroing an optic on the handguards will eventually result in issues maintaining the zero.
Now, the zero shift may be well within minute-of-enemy and might be acceptable if needed. Workable, but it's not ideal.
A quality free-float HG will help with the zero issue, but I'll leave the meat of the discussion of why you do/don't want to place the optic that far forward to those with operational experience to back up their views...
For what little it's worth, I think that while having the optic far forward "feels" pretty good initially, you'll find your field of view is less restricted with the optic closer to your eye. As an example...make a circle (okay sign) with your fingers, and look through it like you would your optic (focus on something else, like a person on TV)...hold it out front, then hold it close to your eye. Which way does your hand block more of your view?
LOKNLOD - Would your opinion change if the optic was mounted on an MRP or Vltor VIS?
LOKNLOD - Would your opinion change if the optic was mounted on an MRP or Vltor VIS?
My opinion on the utility of having the optic mounted really far forward, no. My confidence in the optic holding a zero, yes, but that's less opinion than technical fact. An MRP or VIS just can't shift around like a drop-in handguard.
I currently run my EoTech a little farther forward than most people, I put the viewing portion over where the delta ring would be on my MRP. I put it that far forward because I found it easier to see when I was shooting support side (left handed). Your logic is sound on why you should put it farther back. I'll probably end up playing around with it and moving the sight farther back but where I still feel comfortable shooting weak side.
Well it's definitely worth experimenting with to find your personal "sweet spot" but don't do anything based solely off of my recommendations ;) I was hoping some of our SME's and pro's might jump in on this topic...
I'll also say I haven't used an EOtech enough to know if that would change my opinion. The different (larger) reticle and hood shape vs. an Aimpoint might make it seem better/worse mounted closer/farther --- I just haven't spent enough time with one to formulate any thoughts on the EO.
I keep asking this same question in other threads. I don't run a red dot at all, but I noticed that the instructor in the magpul video runs the cantilever mount that puts the aimpoint way out front.
So my thought was if I have a FF rail, why not use the standard mount on the rail and put the optic as far back as I can on the rail.
The front mount came from some units use of Fixed CH uppers, and wanting an optic, thus adding an Aimpoint or Eo to a RIS/RAS.
It worked okay within 25m or so for CQB.
The RIS and RAS, and many freefloat rails are not solid enough to mitigate shock from both firing, and impact (jump/rappel etc).
It has some advantages, and some negatives. I think the negatives outweight the positives, and I used to do this on an issue carbine.
Robb Jensen
03-26-09, 10:02
Some say it's a mark of a rookie.....having an optic on the rail/handguard of their AR.
FWIW when I met my good friend Travis Haley in 2004 he had a 10" SBR with an Krylon'd OD green Aimpoint M2 or M3 on it in an ARMS mount on an ARMS SIR rail. As anyone knows he's in the top 1% of amount of combat trigger time on this forum.......so he's hardly a rookie.
As said it works good for up close, what it gives you is speed verifiable with a shot timer. What it does bad is that it's exposed to more heat, gets banged around more and is more easily shot lose. The same thing goes for lasers mounted on rails.
I like to have mine as far foward as possible, but on the upper. I know alot of these rails are really good but if you use a VFG its possible, once the adrenalin starts pumping to pull the entire rail down. It might not go much but if you get it 1/8th inch lower than when you zero'd with the optic on the rail your will be shooting low. I think most here use a 50 yard zero and at that range you should still be able to have center or just lower than center mass hits, but at 200 or 300 yards you would be wasting your time. We shoot our M-4's (Marine Corps) out to 500 yards on irons just to do basic requal's. The point being the weapon has the ability to go that far. You could also keep it out there and have your BUIS on the upper set at more of a rifle zero and just go to them if you feel the range is outside what your RDS is set at.
Well it's definitely worth experimenting with to find your personal "sweet spot" but don't do anything based solely off of my recommendations ;) I was hoping some of our SME's and pro's might jump in on this topic...
I'm not playing around with the position of the sight just because you said so. I'm constantly looking at my gear/techniques/etc. to see if I should change anything. I've had the EoTech on the front for a couple of years now. If I move it back then I'll try it like that for a couple of months to see how I like it. If I like it then I'll keep it, if not then I'll move it forward again.
It's the same thing as when people ask me for my opinion on gear/technique/etc., I always say "it's not what works for me, it's what works for you."
I mount mine as far forward on the upper as possible without it being over the barrel nut. I originally had it straddling the barrel nut but was promptly smacked down here for it. They had a good point about this being the hottest point of the rifle.
An aimpoint that doesn't sit directly on the rail or an Eotech on a cantilever mount would not be a problem mounted at the mid point since the heat would dissipate and not transfer directly to the optic.
They had a good point about this being the hottest point of the rifle.
I hardly find that to be a hot enough point on the rifle that it would affect an optic in a mount. It gets warm there, but I've never had a situation where my delta ring was hot enough that I couldn't hold the rifle there.
You can get an EO hot enough to shut it down while mounted on a front handguard. Due to the design of the Aimpoints they are more isolated from that.
Ask me how I know ;)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Weapons/kevssfw.jpg
Robb Jensen
03-27-09, 07:21
You can get an EO hot enough to shut it down while mounted on a front handguard. Due to the design of the Aimpoints they are more isolated from that.
Ask me how I know ;)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Weapons/kevssfw.jpg
I learned that lesson too. My 551 and 552 would shut down if I ran the gun really really hard.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/robbM4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/robbattoweratBW.jpg
You can get an EO hot enough to shut it down while mounted on a front handguard.
I've heard of this happening.
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