A few videos I made discussing magazines

[87GN]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCE7lhDoqKM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYCUpQCimWU

Enjoy

[SwatDawg15]

Ive read some of your reviews before, do you ever get tired of breaking shit? :cool:

[87GN]

No - breaking shit is fun! :D

[SwatDawg15]

I wish i had the extra stuff to break, err I guess I do, but I get a sick feeling everytime I think about breaking my stuff :o

[87GN]

Well, if it gives me an idea of which gear I can push the hardest, and how it will break when it does break, and how I can salvage the parts if I need to, then it is "stuff well broken" IMHO.

[PlatoCATM]

Is the crush test valid? I can't understand what type of normal wear and tear this relates to. I guess it's a good thing if you operate in rocky terrain where small boulders are falling off cliff faces, but otherwise this test just relates to careless abuse like leaving them lay in a field and subsequently running over them with a lawn mower or something. I get it, they're tough, but negligence aside these tests don't mean anything. Why not instead measure the force required to permanently spread the feed lips or something?

Otherwise, thanks for destroying the mags; I feel better about any future purchase.

[87GN]

The purpose was to find out which magazines would function with extreme damage to the mag bodies, and when each would break. As it turns out, once the magazines were "broken", they were nonfunctional - with the exception of the magazine shown in that video. The upper half was itself divided in half and only held together by the bond with the lower half. To me that is extreme damage. Some other magazines showed very little signs of damage (which occurred at much lower pressures) and yet were completely nonfunctional. Some magazines were rendered nonfunctional the instant pressure registered on the gauge, let alone reached 1 or 2 tons.

In essence the very fact that you ask about the validity of the tests proves their usefulness. The amount of damage required to render this magazine nonfunctional exceeds everything that could reasonably be encountered in a duty or combat situation. At first, my answer to your question may seem ridiculous, but think about it.

I am going to conduct more tests (involving magazines exposed to extreme cold, then dropped loaded and pressure-tested), these are not the only videos I will put out.

That is a good idea regarding the feed lips - I will see what I can do. Although I am going to be running out of magazines after a few more rounds (15 destroyed so far).

[Cameron]

Some other magazines showed very little signs of damage (which occurred at much lower pressures) and yet were completely nonfunctional. Some magazines were rendered nonfunctional the instant pressure registered on the gauge, let alone reached 1 or 2 tons.


Which mags were which?

[87GN]

Lancer mags look like they might work, but don't work, at about 1 1/2 tons, probably would have been nonfunctional earlier. They lasted much longer than I thought they would.

CProducts Aluminum mags were broken immediately. The body itself hardly had a chance to deform before the welds broke. I also saw (rather extensive) signs of surface corrosion on the unfinished portions of the magazine which were exposed when the welds broke.

The breakdown...

Weight distributed over body:
CProducts Aluminum - Close to zero (broken welds front and back, broken follower, floorplate failure)
CProducts Steel - 1 ton (broken follower, crushed body)
USGI Okay - 1 ton (crushed body, crushed floorplate)
Lancer L5 - 1 1/2 tons (deformed body, not functional, restricted follower travel)
HK Steel - 2 tons (crushed body, follower frozen, floorplate failure)

Weight concentrated on feed lips:
Magpul PMAG - ~3 tons (broken follower, severely deformed spring, broken magazine body, nonfunctional)
TangoDown ARC - ~3 tons (intact follower, barely deformed spring, broken upper magazine body, semi functional)

Both polymer mags started showing cracks and deforming before they broke, but both would probably have been functional. Both "broke" at pretty much the same point. In the case of the PMag the follower came apart and shot pieces across the shop. In the case of the ARC mag the upper half broke down the front and rear as seen in the video.

[kingc]

Thanks for that summation. So no welds broken on the OK mags then? Any chance you could test the quality of the welds on ALL the popular USGI and clone mags? That weld weakness on the CP AL mags speaks volumes.

[87GN]

Thanks for that summation. So no welds broken on the OK mags then? Any chance you could test the quality of the welds on ALL the popular USGI and clone mags? That weld weakness on the CP AL mags speaks volumes.

No welds broken at 1 ton. This was the first mag we tested and we took it to 4 tons, hadn't ironed out protocol yet - after that we went to when it broke and no more. The welds broke somewhere in between 1 and 4. Frankly it is in great shape considering that we took it to 4 tons. I called it "broken" at 1 ton because of the floorplate. At 4 tons the rear welds are intact, the front welds are not.

I have a few more aluminum mags, I guess I could crush a few more. I have some Bravo/D&H mags, will crush one of those. I have some Center mags too.

[kingc]

No welds broken at 1 ton. This was the first mag we tested and we took it to 4 tons, hadn't ironed out protocol yet - after that we went to when it broke and no more. The welds broke somewhere in between 1 and 4. Frankly it is in great shape considering that we took it to 4 tons. I called it "broken" at 1 ton because of the floorplate. At 4 tons the rear welds are intact, the front welds are not.

I have a few more aluminum mags, I guess I could crush a few more. I have some Bravo/D&H mags, will crush one of those. I have some Center mags too.

That would be great. I don't have any first hand info on how USGI AL mags are made, but I remember Troy the mag expert once said that there were limited govt approved manufacturing setups to make the real deal. I read in a SWAT magazine article a couple years ago about a tour they took of the CProducts factory. They were saying that they were using some new rocket science to press the sheets of AL and weld them together. :rolleyes:
I won't deride anybody, but like I said earlier, your test would show a lot of valuable info about the weld strength and ultimate quality there. Doesn't really matter if Colorado Boulders or Nebraska buffalo chips dent the bodies under rare extremes. Just shows, plain and simple, which is quality and which may not be ready for the road. Truly eye-opening to the "just as good as" folks.

Thank you!

[87GN]

Next tests will be polymer mags, cold, drop and crush tests (mainly to test feedlip strength which is a major issue of concern for certain people who want mag durability down to 40 below), and aluminum/steel mags, standard temperature, crush tests specifically to test the welds and floorplate strength.

Here's a better picture of the comparison between SS and CS springs.

The SS spring did the same thing when crushed in the press - it took a set and was rendered unusable.

http://azbattlerifles.com/images/DSC043422.JPG

[87GN]

Well I just did the "cold weather" portion.

I had planned to do a crush test as well but the PMag broke on the first drop. I didn't even get it on video, wasn't expecting it to be that early. Basically the left hand feed lip is gone, the mag would feed two rounds for the price of one. I know, I can't back up what I'm saying with anything more than a photo - but it really was the first drop. If anyone wants to verify it themselves, the mags were put loaded with 30 rounds into my freezer for about 2 hours, which is on the "medium" setting.

The ARC survived 8 drops, still functional, cracks developing behind feedlips but no other damage to report. I have it on video. I am told that the ARC survived 6 drops loaded after 4 days at -40F.

Here is the PMag after 1 drop and the ARC after 3:

http://www.azbattlerifles.com/images/freezer1.jpg

[87GN]

I just destroyed 8 magazines - 1 HK, 2 CProducts SS, 2 CProducts Aluminum, 1 Center Industries, 1 Colt, and one D&H (Bravo, to be exact).

There seemed to be very little difference between the CP SS and AL mags. The SS mags may have lasted a bit longer, but not by much. I'm beginning to think that the other CP AL magazine was just a lemon, because these two CP AL mags both made it to almost 1 ton before dying. However, one started making cracking noises when all I did was tighten the press down. Not confidence inspiring.

And when the CP AL mags died, they died spectacularly. The USGI mags (Center, Colt) had broken front welds, just like the OKay mag. The rear welds remained intact and the magazine remained in one piece. The CP AL mags were essentially 2 halves yet again.

The HK mag stayed relatively OK to 2 tons, but the front of the mag near the feed lips bulged out just like the other one - and the mag won't fit in a magwell any more. Fail.

The hero of the evening was the D&H/Labelle/Bravo mag. Wow. It survived 2 trips to 2 tons and didn't break until 3 tons, then went to 2 tons on the feedlips.

I also crushed the springs individually (CS and SS) and CS proved itself again...

I'll get what videos I can together and post them as soon as possible.

[87GN]

Bravo mag...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VarvDDsB1_M

[87GN]

ARC drop test, cold.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf2BkTYKNwc&feature=channel_page