View Full Version : Kel-Tec RFB .308 Bullpup has shipped
variablebinary
03-26-09, 20:32
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_LqksNzB2NUw/RdlxeQ0_V0I/AAAAAAAAAEU/eW9POjz5keI/s400/SMkel308.jpg
Pics posted on Fal files. That gun is tiny. Overall, I think it looks interesting. It sure to be fun at the range
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f107/Fizgig44/IMG00028-1.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f107/Fizgig44/IMG00527-1.jpg
variablebinary
03-26-09, 20:51
http://i624.photobucket.com/albums/tt321/spiny2/gabi009.jpg
I have a buddy that wants one of these so bad he can taste it. I am less enthusiastic. I dont think that it looks all that comfortable, parts will be hard to find in a pinch, and I have to admit that I struggle with it being a kel-tech:rolleyes:. But in all honesty I am curious about it and would be willing to give it a try
Rifles like the RFB and the Russian SVU, etc, are exactly what is needed in a squad marksman rifle. Of course the RFB won't be seeing military use anytime soon but the concept is still appealing.
A 308 rifle capable of its purpose of putting rounds down range accurately and at a further distance than of what the infantry rifles are capable of in terms of terminal effect, yet is compact and has a 20 round magazine to keep up with the infantry rifles for CQB.
Brilliant!:D
It looks nice
Whats the price tag like?
Littlelebowski
03-27-09, 06:19
Rifles like the RFB and the Russian SVU, etc, are exactly what is needed in a squad marksman rifle. Of course the RFB won't be seeing military use anytime soon but the concept is still appealing.
A 308 rifle capable of its purpose of putting rounds down range accurately and at a further distance than of what the infantry rifles are capable of in terms of terminal effect, yet is compact and has a 20 round magazine to keep up with the infantry rifles for CQB.
Brilliant!:D
And then the insurgents place a price on the heads of the marksman, just like they did on the guys carrying bolt guns in Iraq. Not so brilliant. Plus we don't know how accurate these things are either.
Rifles like the RFB and the Russian SVU, etc, are exactly what is needed in a squad marksman rifle.
Brilliant!:D
The only thing about the RFB being a squad DMR is that I would think that the trigger should be decent, much like the trigger the the SAMR had. While I have not shot one of the RFB's, I have never heard of or seen a bullpup that has a great trigger. Beyond that, the RFB has not exactly been around long enough to see if it is durable enough to be trusted
Keltec's website has no mention of technical specs on this weapon. Anyone have them?
Also, anyone know MSRP or actual sales price?
And then the insurgents place a price on the heads of the marksman, just like they did on the guys carrying bolt guns in Iraq. Not so brilliant. Plus we don't know how accurate these things are either.
Gees -- if the bad guys really dislike the marksmen and snipers we should probably stop using them! LOL! I don't think disdain for designated marksmen or snipers is anything new to Iraq.
Anyway, I think these rifles have some potential, although I do agree on parts concerns in the long run. I'm looking forward to reviews from average joes that buy these.
I do like the idea of my 30 rnd FAL mag in there...hmmmm.....!!!
Littlelebowski
03-27-09, 09:12
Gees -- if the bad guys really dislike the marksmen and snipers we should probably stop using them! LOL! I don't think disdain for designated marksmen or snipers is anything new to Iraq.
Anyway, I think these rifles have some potential, although I do agree on parts concerns in the long run. I'm looking forward to reviews from average joes that buy these.
I do like the idea of my 30 rnd FAL mag in there...hmmmm.....!!!
What a strange word to use. Disdain? Do you not understand what I'm saying? The snipers carrying bolt guns were targeted out of necessity by the insurgents. Do you really not understand what tactical need the insurgents were fulfilling for themselves by targeting snipers?
What a strange word to use. Disdain? Do you not understand what I'm saying? The snipers carrying bolt guns were targeted out of necessity by the insurgents. Do you really not understand what tactical need the insurgents were fulfilling for themselves by targeting snipers?
you're right -- poor word usage on my part. we are on the same sheet of music.
the point i was making is still valid though -- so what if insurgents "target" DM or snipers - it sure doesn't mean we shouldn't employ those weapons or personnel because they're scared of them and target them. that fear factor is half the point. snipers know that before they even start the course!
Littlelebowski
03-27-09, 09:30
you're right -- poor word usage on my part. we are on the same sheet of music.
the point i was making is still valid though -- so what if insurgents "target" DM or snipers - it sure doesn't mean we shouldn't employ those weapons or personnel because they're scared of them and target them. that fear factor is half the point. snipers know that before they even start the course!
It seems very obvious to me that if snipers blend in with the normal troops that they can then deploy to their positions easier without fear of being detected. This is not about fear, this is about combat effectiveness. Following this line of logic, an SR25 type rifle that blends in perfectly with the M4s/M16s seems to be a pretty darned good choice. I'm just a dumb old Marine grunt but most of my knowledge I got firsthand from my brother (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=26518).
It seems very obvious to me that if snipers blend in with the normal troops that they can then deploy to their positions easier without fear of being detected. This is not about fear, this is about combat effectiveness. Following this line of logic, an SR25 type rifle that blends in perfectly with the M4s/M16s seems to be a pretty darned good choice. I'm just a dumb old Marine grunt but most of my knowledge I got firsthand from my brother (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=26518).
I trained with guys who are in the "Super Secret Squirrel Club," but that doesn't mean I'll be on "The Unit" next week. Definite props to your BROTHER though -- sounds like he earned it. No arguing the validity of you point. Anyway -- thanks for sharing your dissertation on sniping... what are your thoughts on this kel-tec rifle the thread is about?
I, for example, in addition to my future parts replacement concerns, also worry about MBR round going off that close to my head. I know it's probably not a real issue, but it even bothered me some with my FS2000 and the 7,62 is a beefy round.
Have there been any issues with polymer cracks in high round count rifles during their testing?
Littlelebowski
03-27-09, 09:49
Well, it wasn't me that brought up the whole point on SDMs, etc but sure let's get back on topic.
I think that the Keltec is a day late and dollar short unless it's very accurate, much more so than say....a 1K DPMS LR308. Who the hell can afford to plink and train carbine style with .308 anymore? My FAL sits in the safe. Can't afford to replenish what .308 ammo I have.
Well, it wasn't me that brought up the whole point on SDMs, etc but sure let's get back on topic.
I think that the Keltec is a day late and dollar short unless it's very accurate, much more so than say....a 1K DPMS LR308. Who the hell can afford to plink and train carbine style with .308 anymore? My FAL sits in the safe. Can't afford to replenish what .308 ammo I have.
I have to disagree with you. As long as it's reliable, I think they will sell every gun they make.
I'm looking at this weapon as a battle rifle, not a precision marksman rifle. I don't think they meant it to be that way, at least not in the 18" barreled version.
Apparently street price will be around $1,400. Wolf .308 is only about $8.30 a box which isn't too bad.
Littlelebowski
03-27-09, 10:08
I'm sure they will sell every rifle they make in the current gun buying panic. However, the cost of .308 makes a new "battle rifle" prohibitive for anything more than your casual range visit. I hope that the platform is viable enough as far as accuracy, reliability, and cost of manufacturing for Keltec to port over to a caliber that's actually affordable to shoot. I'd love to shoot one but for now my FAL sits in the safe and my 5.45 AR sees all of the action at the range.
Holy hell this thread took a off topic turn LOL
Ayyone got an MSRP?
i like the concept of this rifle greatly. as a battle rifle, or as a DM rifle, or as both! why does everyone hate keltec so much? my PLR-16 has 1,500 rounds of wolf with zero problems or its first cleaning. my mk-14 clone is 14lbs unloaded. its suppost to be an all around dm rifle, but nutts to that. it sooner take a bullpup that weighs less anyday! and FAL mags? hell yeah! it would be cool if they made one to take G3 mags too. i'm thinking keltec is going to get a chunk of my reenlistment money here in a few weeks! BTW even a MK-11 or MK12 stands out like a sore thumb over here. if i was a muj, i'd shoot anyone i see with a painted rifle or a bipod. luckily things aint like they used to be here!
why does everyone hate keltec so much?
Im guessing because they make cheaper weapons that are still high quality and they dont say COLT or Novekse etc on the side or command ridiculous prices
Seems if someone makes a gun thats reasonable in price its surely junk etc etc etc
Littlelebowski
03-27-09, 10:51
Anywhere you look, you hear about Keltec's great customer service because someone had to return their pistol.
Keltec's website has no mention of technical specs on this weapon. Anyone have them?
Also, anyone know MSRP or actual sales price?
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/images/downloads/RFB_Flyer_SHOT_2007_web.pdf
I found this I don't know if it well help.
Im guessing because they make cheaper weapons that are still high quality and they dont say COLT or Novekse etc on the side or command ridiculous prices
Seems if someone makes a gun thats reasonable in price its surely junk etc etc etc
No, it's because cheaper guns come with cheaper quality control. I have a couple friends that carry them[small pistols] on a daily basis, they both have trouble when the guns get hot.
Someone on Gun Broker just paid $2,900+ for one of these RFB's, and it says Kel-Tec, not Colt or Noveseke. :rolleyes:
Kel-Tec wrote this not me:
The long range improvement is even more pronounced
with a heavier bullet at normal velocity. An M110 SASS
shoots a 175 gr projectile at 2500 fps.The RFB will fire
a 210 gr bullet at the same velocity, resulting in 65%
more knockdown energy at 1000 m. At the same
distance the wind deflection is reduced to 72%.
This ballistic performance is superior to a traditional 300
Win Magnum and closely approaches a 338 Lapua.
I have a hard time believing that...
variablebinary
03-27-09, 12:16
Street price should be about $1500. At least that is what one local dealer was charging until he decided to keep it for himself.
We'll all have to wait and see what feedback on the street is like. It's just too new to form a real opinion IMHO. It's an interesting effort though. It's always nice when a little guy steps up and offers the public something totally new despite the political climate and never ending anti gun political machine.
Kel-Tec wrote this not me:
The long range improvement is even more pronounced
with a heavier bullet at normal velocity. An M110 SASS
shoots a 175 gr projectile at 2500 fps.The RFB will fire
a 210 gr bullet at the same velocity, resulting in 65%
more knockdown energy at 1000 m. At the same
distance the wind deflection is reduced to 72%.
This ballistic performance is superior to a traditional 300
Win Magnum and closely approaches a 338 Lapua.
I have a hard time believing that...
Well that seals the deal for me! Where do I sign up?
If only it were true.... :rolleyes:
Anywhere you look, you hear about Keltec's great customer service because someone had to return their pistol.
I think that's due to their business model, though. They make and sell affordable self-defense pistols. These are probably not aimed at guys who will be putting thousands of rounds through them and training with it constantly. I think they could probably make more robust guns that stand up to that kind of use, but they would have to charge more and take themselves out of the niche they have in the market.
Kelgren has come up with quite a few novel firearms designs, and this gun has a number of interesting features. I hope it lives up to its promise.
Isn't the RFB a bullpup FAL with forward ejection?
Isn't the RFB a bullpup FAL with forward ejection?
Yup..keltec has a video on their website showing it, it's very FS2000'esque.
variablebinary
03-27-09, 19:33
I got to fondle the RFB. Overall, it feels like a very well put together and thought out piece of kit.
It's disturbingly compact for a 7.62 NATO gun. It's got some heft to it as well.
The dealer was charging $1400 which is a freaking steal compared to other bullpups sold on the market. Hell, its a steal for a 7.62 NATO gun period.
However one of my concerns is Kel-Tec isnt known for being able to keep the market supplied with their current line of products. So how are they going to feed the market RFB's on a regular basis.
you're right -- poor word usage on my part. we are on the same sheet of music.
the point i was making is still valid though -- so what if insurgents "target" DM or snipers - it sure doesn't mean we shouldn't employ those weapons or personnel because they're scared of them and target them. that fear factor is half the point. snipers know that before they even start the course!
So Hassan al-Dirka only has one RPG, and he decides to fling it at the dude with the boltgun. We can easily replace the weapon, but we cannot easily replace the highly trained soldier or Marine. There probably isn't anything you can do with a 16" .308 bullpup that you can't accomplish with the AR platform with a much lower profile appearance, even limited to 5.56mm.
I'd really like to get some trigger time on this new rifle; if it shot nice, I'd give it a try.
I finally got ahold of one of these. They couldn't help themselves and had to put a slot down the picatinny rail.
geminidglocker
10-23-09, 16:04
Okay, already, maybe it's not for military application. It still looks like it might make a good fun gun, just for plinkin' and its uniqueness. I personally would like to at least shoot one before I passed judgement on it. With a 5rd. mag and RDS, It might be just the ticket for the woods I stalk hunt. Bullpups are comfortable to carry at the low ready. They balance quickly to the shoulder, and the cheek weld sticks nicely.
Oh, and the ergonomics mean that the weapon can rise to the shoulder with less visible motion perceived by the target area.
Two cents on KelTec:
If you need basic protection you would do better to buy a proven professional quality system over anything KelTec. The market is full of nice low round count agency trade-ins at good prices. Even if you are really broke you would be better off with a Makarov or Tokarev. These guns are military grade, tough, and reliable. There is good defensive ammo available for both.
If this new rifle is well made then great. It will be a keeper. If it is standard low quality KelTec then pass.
As a general rule, every gun purchase should be an investment or at least a hedge. I have never lost money on a gun and most are worth more than I paid for them. Any gun you own should be of high enough quality to out live you.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.