View Full Version : 22lr conversions
Does anybody have a 22lr conversion on their AR-15? If so how well does it work and what brand kit did you get? I was want to know if this is worth buying or is it a waste of time? The only thing I see is to save money on ammo.
DialTone301
03-27-09, 09:19
I have a Spikes Tactical conversion and have been happy with it. It is not perfect but it allows me to shoot my rifle more often at a lower cost.
I recently got an old Colt 22.r conversion for the AR, but have not had a chance to shoot it yet. I only just got DR approval to start shooting again post-op, and the conversion needed a little work done to get it back in working order.
I also have a suppressor will it be ok to leave it on or should I take it off?
I have a Spikes Tactical conversion and have been happy with it. It is not perfect but it allows me to shoot my rifle more often at a lower cost.
when you say its not perfect whats wrong with it?
DialTone301
03-27-09, 10:12
If I shoot 550 rounds I will have a stovepipe or two.
Since it doesn't lock the bolt back it is not really good for training on reloads. It does hold the bolt back when the mag is empty but as you drop the mag the bolt goes forward (since the follower is holding the bolt). I do worry about how long the BDM mags will hold up since the bolt is pushing hard on the follower.
Had a problem with some of the plating flaking off the back of the bolt near the firing pin. Spikes offered to replace it now or I could keep using it and they would replace it later if I had problems. They seem to have very good CS.
Accuracy out to 50 yards is acceptable out of my RRA 16".
I am definitely happy with my purchase and would do it again.
Numerous threads already on the site - here are but a few:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=21306
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=28043
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19946
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=26693
Searching on the term "22LR" resulted in 145 threads where 22LR was discussed.
I have the CMMG drop-in kit with about 800 rounds through it. POI is about 1.5" low and 1" left of my rifle shooting .223 at 25 yards. Close enough for practice. My only complaint, if you can call it that, is an ammo issue. Since I'm doing this to save money, I am shooting Federal bulk 550 packs. With cheap bulk ammo like that you get the typical failure to fire maybe 3 or 4 rounds every 100. About 25% of the time when I get an FTF and cycle the charging handle, the extractor doesn't grab the unfired cartridge and I end up with chambered round and another pushed against it with the nose crushed. Then I have to stop, drop the magazine, and get a screwdriver or blade behind the rim of the chambered cartridge to get it out.
I could remedy the issue by shooting higher quality .22LR, but I'm doing this to save money on trigger time and $15 bulk packs (when I can find them) are how I'm doing it.
I am shooting Federal bulk 550 packs. With cheap bulk ammo like that you get the typical failure to fire maybe 3 or 4 rounds every 100.
That was the FTFire (dud ammo) rate I was getting with Remington Goldens, which also cycled horribly in my kit. Since I switched to Federal #750 Bulk Pack of 550 from Walmart ($13.47) I have only had 1 dud round out of 2,300 and no FTFeeds.
I am using a CMMG kit also, but I always have a regular 22 with me, sometimes several, and always try to fire the dud in all of them. The one dud Federal I had would not fire in any of 3 guns so it was truely the ammo and not anything to do with the CMMG.
CatmostFeared
03-27-09, 17:25
I'm looking for a 22lr upper also
Hello, "Pistol Caliber ARs" Forum!
For the OP:
Yes.
It works well, so far. CMMG.
If you're going to use it, then it's well worth the money. If you're asking whether plinking with a .22lr is a "waste of time," then that's something else altogether...
It not only saves money on ammo, but it's also a less intimidating experience for new shooters.
It's hard to imagine having a little kid shoot a 5.56 AR, but I can easily imagine my three-year-old shooting .22lr through my AR in a couple more years (she can already shoulder it with the stock collapsed, she just can't really reach the forearm, yet).
I've been running several .22LR conversions for a long time. The biggest problem I see overall is in the ammo choices people make. They want to save money on ammo & I understand that. What a lot of people do is go to the lowest priced bulk .22LR ammo & then complain when there's problems. I strongly encourage shooters to try various .22 ammo so they know what their gun can digest. In spite of this advice, I still use primarily CCI Mini Mags, because they're the most reliable in my weapon conversions. Some people will still argue that Mini Mags are too expensive & that they got the conversion to save money. The difference between 5.56mm & .22LR Mini Mags is tremendous. Yes you can save even more by shooting cheap bulk packs, but why bother if they're unreliable? You're still saving a butt load of money with the better quality .22LR ammo. Just my first hand observation. YMMV
The difference between 5.56mm & .22LR Mini Mags is tremendous. Yes you can save even more by shooting cheap bulk packs, but why bother if they're unreliable? You're still saving a butt load of money with the better quality .22LR ammo.
+1 I've only tried Mini-Mags and the Federal copper-plated "value pack." The former run about 6¢ a round, the latter are less than 4¢ per round.
Whether I'm saving 85% or 90% over quality 5.56 at 40¢ per round doesn't really matter to me.
On the other hand, the Federal ran 100% (just like the Mini-Mags), and groups tighter (1-1/4" or so at 20yds, instead of almost 2" for the Mini-Mags).
Like MX5 said, YMMV,
Bimmer
MAS GunWorks
03-28-09, 14:49
There are several good 22 conversions and dedicated 22 uppers for your AR ou there. Spikes Tactical, Tactical Solutions, MAS GunWorks, CMMG, Ciener just to name a few.
Most are identical. Tactical Solutions decided to use their own design. Similar the ciener but not the same. Spikes new design is also similar to ciener but they changed a few things.
No one makes a 22 conversion that works perfectly all of the time. It can't be done. The ammo for one is to dirt and will gum up the bolt assembly after several magazines. Just part of shooting a 22. I use suppressors on all of mine and they are a blast to shoot both semi and full auto.
Most are identical.
No one makes a 22 conversion that works perfectly all of the time. It can't be done. The ammo for one is to dirt and will gum up the bolt assembly after several magazines. Just part of shooting a 22. I use suppressors on all of mine and they are a blast to shoot both semi and full auto.
Just to be clear: the idea is basically the same, but the execution and the customer service of the various manufacturers varies all over the place.
Another big issue is magazine function availability: CMMG, Ciener, and Spikes (that I know of) all use BDM mags, which seem to be the PMAGs of the .22 world.
As for the ammo being dirty and gumming things up... Perhaps using a suppressor makes yours gum up after only a few magazines, but there are plenty of people shooting their conversions for hundreds of rounds between cleanings, with no problems. Mine was dirty after the first 100+ rounds, but it was hardly "gummed up."
Bimmer
The ammo for one is to dirt and will gum up the bolt assembly after several magazines.
I typically shoot a brick at a time (550 rounds) and it dosn't get gummed up. But if you use Remington Goldens, which are gummy to start with, you will probably get gummed up. The Federal #750 bulk pack is very clean and dry to handle and it feeds reliably, even after 500 rounds! At least it does in my CMMG.
I don't run my CMMG as wet as some of you may, and maybe that is the difference. After I clean my kit, I put a very light coat of Slide Glide on the contact areas of the bolt and rail, and a very light coat of oil on everything else. It runs great this way for me and stays fairly clean with the Federal. I do not have to add oil when I shoot a brick of ammo.
CatmostFeared
03-30-09, 04:59
Spike's Tactical lr22 is on my list but, I'm going to wait until after the machaine gun shoot at knobcreek 1st, because I might find a good deal on on there.
Here's mine.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e309/halo2304/Guns/IMAGE_221.jpg
i just recieved my spikes 22lr upper yesterday, i ran 200 plus rounds through it and it ran fine.
i am real happy with it, it will allow me alot more trigger time and hopefully imporove my shooting
What's odd about my rig is when I raise the rear sight in the carry handle, my groups raise as well. The carry handle is removable and I had to assemble it myself. Talk about a pain in the ass...and fingers! I don't think it would make a difference, but the carry handle parts, I believe, were for the integral handle. I had to modify the sight body in order for the sight to be all the way down and not crash into the rail of my upper.
CatmostFeared
04-17-09, 12:18
I went with this and shot 150 round so far without any problems in my AR Colt
http://www.focusxtreme.com/ar15lr22.jpg
Finally got to shoot the Bushie with my old Colt .22lr conversion yesterday. The ol' thing ran flawlessly. No FTF, no FTE. Ran about 100rnds of Fed bulk pack, followed later by a mag of 5.56 just to blow stuff clear.
Accuracy was so-so, but considering it's a 1/9 twist I wasn't expecting superb accuracy.
Anybody happen to have any of the old original Colt .22 conv mags they'd be willing to part with? I need more and BDM's mag is not yet in production...
DesertWarrior13
04-27-09, 18:24
I want one A.S.A.P. I'm trying to decide which one to get. CMMG or Spike's Tactical. They both look functionally similar. I'm sure they both work well. I'm leaning more towards the ST version because of the nickel finish and maybe the O-rings are a good idea. :confused:
As I was researching the www I came across this picture and thought it was interesting, especially since Vic said he had a Colt version. It looks a little different but the same concept. Same thing with the M261; different design same idea. More than one way to skin a cat.
At www.precisionweapons.com
http://www.precisionweapons.com/CartGenie/Images/Large/.22LR_Bolts_M261_JAC-CMMG_Spikes_TacSol.jpg
Also here's a good CMMG review I found.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC5UbgB_tfE
FWIW, the Colt is the same as the later-made DPMS version not shown. And no other mags currently produced work with a Colt... :mad: But BDM is working on that problem. Ceiner did make a special run of 30rnd (I think )mags for the Colt kit but they're nearly impossible to find. I think I will wait for BDM, or try to scare up some factory Colt or DPMS mags. (DPMS mags will work in the Colt kits).
Just saw on Rainier Arms LLC this evening that they've got Tactical Solutions M4 Upper--22LR!
DesertWarrior13
05-08-09, 13:54
I just ordered Spike's Tactical drop in .22 conv kit from palmettostatearmory.com
I can't wait, I will leave some range results after I test it out. :)
im running a cmmg conversion and it work ok. not perfect but i didnt expect it to.
I currently have a CMMG and a Spikes conversion unit. Both run well. It is interesting, but in terms of FTF, the Spikes unit has given a few more issues, but none that would deter me from using it. I just picked up a CMMG dedicated upper this afternoon. It was $30 less than the S&W M&P 22 the dealer had on the shelf. I wanted something that would work with the 9 BDM/CMMG mags I have so it was a no brainer for me. I'm looking forward to trying it out.
I have 2 0f the Ciener kits, one for each of my 2 son's AR-15s. they shoot them all day long and love them, and i save a lot of money. great plinkers, very few problems. drawbacks, when zeroing a weapon w/ 5.56, the ciener kit put the group .22lr about 3 inches low and a bit to the left at 25m (shot using an Eotech). So, you can either zero for the .22lr or use a bit of windage. We can still hit cans and jugs and have lots of fun without messing with the zero of the weapon. the 10 round magazines empty too fast: i highly recommend getting 25-30 round mags- mad dog sells those, i think. i haven't gotten around tothat purchase yet. the kits are also good for CQB drills, at short distances the zero isn't affected enough to matter, so you can do quick drills at 10-15 meters with the same gun/sights/etc and not spend as much. they do need some lube, they will stick on you if you dont lube the kit and take it out and do a quick cleaning every hundred rounds or so. People also suggest shooting some 5.56 afterwards to clean out the gas tube. So bottom line, ciener kits are fun, but if you want great accuracy go with a dedicated .22lr upper.
i highly recommend getting 25-30 round mags- mad dog sells those, i think.
CMMG also makes a mag that will work with those kits. The CMMG mags run $20 per mag, which is about $10-$15 less than the BDM mags.
I've been using the CMMG conversion in my CMMG 14.5 inch for some time and have found it to be extremely reliable. In fact since round one I have had 0 failures of any kind. As far as having to change the sights between 223 and 22lr I haven't had to make any adjustments at all. I using American Eagle ammo (Federal) in a 38 grain bullet which is what CMMG advises be used in the conversion. At least they say use Federal not specifically this round.
It's been a lot of fun and a very good training tool.
Just received a CMMG stainless kit with 3-26 round mags for $189.95. ( Palmeto State Armory)
Went to the range and ran 300 rounds through it. 2 different types of Federal, and 2 types of Winchester ammo with everything running 100%.
At 25 yds. there was no adjustment needed in zeroing the gun. Was able to put 5 rounds into a quarter sized circle at 75' resting the hand guard on the shelf at the range
trukreltrog
02-14-10, 09:44
I have 2 0f the Ciener kits, one for each of my 2 son's AR-15s. they shoot them all day long and love them, and i save a lot of money. great plinkers, very few problems. drawbacks, when zeroing a weapon w/ 5.56, the ciener kit put the group .22lr about 3 inches low and a bit to the left at 25m (shot using an Eotech). So, you can either zero for the .22lr or use a bit of windage. We can still hit cans and jugs and have lots of fun without messing with the zero of the weapon. the 10 round magazines empty too fast: i highly recommend getting 25-30 round mags- mad dog sells those, i think. i haven't gotten around tothat purchase yet. the kits are also good for CQB drills, at short distances the zero isn't affected enough to matter, so you can do quick drills at 10-15 meters with the same gun/sights/etc and not spend as much. they do need some lube, they will stick on you if you dont lube the kit and take it out and do a quick cleaning every hundred rounds or so. People also suggest shooting some 5.56 afterwards to clean out the gas tube. So bottom line, ciener kits are fun, but if you want great accuracy go with a dedicated .22lr upper.
I agree. I run a couple Ceiners too. I've had one break, parts aren't easy to get. So I would stay away from the Ceiners completely. There are a lot of options out there now. Kits are great for plinkin/practice, but the accuracy sucks.
I can get a full bulk pack thru mine, at a time. No issues. Just run it wet.
As stated, get a dedicated upper if you want good accuracy. :)
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