View Full Version : Carrying on a Military Installation
Soon I will be traveling with a life long friend to see his son get his blue cord and crossed rifles. But I'm a bit hazy on an izzue. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is my understanding correct in that I cannot bring any POWs on to the installation, in any state of assembly, and will have to leave them in the hotel room? I am a current holder of a CWL in Florida and Georgia has reciprocity.
You are correct. It's a big no no for anyone to carry on a military installation with the exception of personnel going about daily duties that require they carry their issued firearm.
well when my mom and wife came to FT KNOX .for my beret ceremony My Mom did have her 32 auto in the car .front gate did not search their car .if she would have got caught there would have been hell to pay but she was lucky to my knowledge you are NOT allowed to carry any weapons on to a Military base.without Permission from the Commander Himself.
Correct. Military bases are federal property not subject to state laws. Every base I've been to had a sign that says "No firearms or weapons" at the gate, next to the one saying you and your property are subjct to search at any time. Some bases have gun clubs, but unless you are member of and have your gun registered with the armory, you can't bring a privately owned gun on base even if you have a CCW permit.
Somebody chime in here if I'm wrong.
Smuckatelli
03-29-09, 11:15
Prohibitions of Carrying Firearms or Weapons Open or Concealed onto Federal Installations
As with each citizen’s right to bear arms, there are limits when and where to bear arms. Extreme caution and prudent judgment must be used when deciding to carry a personal firearm or weapon so you must know the law. Virginia concealed carry permits DO NOT apply on MCBQ or any military installation. Before attempting to enter the military installation you must ensure you are in full compliance with the firearms transport rules.
The law involving carrying a firearm or weapon onto federal property is specific and clear. Possession of Firearms and Dangerous Weapons in federal facilities, buildings, or Installations is illegal and is in violation of Section 930, Title 18, United States Code. Law Enforcement personnel, when entering federal facilities, buildings and/or installations must identify themselves prior to entry if armed. Military reserve personnel whose civilian profession require the carrying of a weapon, openly or concealed, are not authorized to carry or bring their duty weapon on a federal installation, into a federal building, or facility. Full time civilian police officers performing drill, annual training, or while in support of an operation, may not bring their duty weapon, open or concealed, onto a federal installation, into a federal building, or facility. Unless the carrying of a concealed weapon is in support of a federal mission, or so directed, weapons will not be brought onto a federal installation, into a federal building or facility.
The following is a list of items that are listed as illegal and may not be carried onto a federal installation or into a federal facility or building.
Firearms (of any type unless declared and cleared by the installation Provost Marshal)
Explosive Weapons
Machine Guns
Short Barrelled Firearms
Firearm Silencer
Switchblade Knives
Knuckles
Armor Piercing Ammunition
Chemical Dispensing Devices
Zip Guns
Clubs or Night Sticks
Illegal Knives
Source: Defense Link - http://www.defenselink.mil/
Consent to Search
Commanders of military installations, aircraft, or vessels may authorize personnel to conduct searches of persons or property upon entry to or exit from the installation, aircraft, or vessel. The justification for the search is the need to make sure the security, military fitness, or good order and discipline of the command is maintained. Any person and their property entering MCBQ is subject to search.
When I the base range for recreational shooting, the following rules apply:
Firearms Transport rules are found in MCBQ Order 8000.1 and the Provost Marshall Standard Operating Procedure. This authority requires that all personnel ensure that:
All firearms are CASED and UNLOADED
A cased firearm must not be readily accessible in the vehicle
Ammo must be as far away from a cased firearm as possible; ammo should be cased, if practicable, and not readily accessible
All magazines must be unloaded
Also keep in mind that as soon as you drive onto a base, you are subject to search without probable cause.
. . Every base I've been to had a sign that says "No firearms or weapons" at the gate, next to the one saying you and your property are subjct to search at any time. Some bases have gun clubs, but unless you are member of and have your gun registered with the armory, you can't bring a privately owned gun on base even if you have a CCW permit.
Somebody chime in here if I'm wrong.
That's my understanding also while I was an employee of the USAF. The signs are at all gates. I just left my gun at home when I went to work.
Thanks for confirming that for me guys. Smuckatelli makes me curious though as to if I could get some range time in at Benning that weekend.
Pretty much every installation is different, so don't assume anything. I'd recommend contacting the specific installation for specifics. I'd expect the installation (1) not to have a ready answer, and (2) not to give you many good options, if any, once you do get an answer.
I don't know of any blanket prohibition against firearms on military installations. In fact, many installations allow personally-owned firearms, just subject to very restrictive guidelines. Many installations allow guns for ranges, hunting, or storage in officer housing. I've had friends that kept their guns in on-post housing, and I've had personally-owned guns on various military installations over the years -- all legally.
Don't expect any installation to allow carry of a personally-owned gun for self-defense like we do outside of the gate. I've never heard of this, but I'd love to be proven wrong by an exception.
Note that USC 18 Sec 930 <http://www.capdefnet.org/fdprc/contents/shared_files/titles/18_usc_930.htm> does not address Federal property or installations in general, but Federal facilities specifically, and facilities are defined therein as buildings. Also, many believe the part that says the prohibition "shall not apply to ... the lawful carrying of firearms ... incident to ... other lawful purposes" should apply to us, but no one has stepped up to willingly be the test case.
hmm... benning has no gates, therefor no signs. dont know what the rules were, but i remember guys bringing their gay homeowner guns to the range.. lotta government m193 got sent through mini14s.
Talk to the base Provost Marshal's office. The installation is bound to have a website with a # for PMO, who can lock you on to the specifics, or if they have a contracted security force, give them a call.
In one word: don't even think about.
hmm... benning has no gates, therefor no signs. dont know what the rules were, but i remember guys bringing their gay homeowner guns to the range.. lotta government m193 got sent through mini14s.
When I went through there 4 years ago with the family coming back from camping in the Carolinas, getting onto the base was a MAJOR chore, unlike the old days. In the old days there were about 50 ways to get on post. I used to come in off of the Harmony Church entrances, or right off of Kelly Hill. Those points are all now closed. Now the only two entrances on post are coming off of I-185 or the main gate off of VD drive. Had to go through a check point just as if I was trying to get on to an AFB.
stanlyonjr
03-30-09, 00:13
If your worried about getting it stolen, you may be able to work something out with base security and have them hold it for you while your on base. I don't know if they will, but when the police from town had business on base they where not allowed to carry there weapons. They were held at the gate security office until they left. Maybe they will de the same for you. Most of them are reasonable if asked.
When I went through there 4 years ago with the family coming back from camping in the Carolinas, getting onto the base was a MAJOR chore, unlike the old days. In the old days there were about 50 ways to get on post. I used to come in off of the Harmony Church entrances, or right off of Kelly Hill. Those points are all now closed. Now the only two entrances on post are coming off of I-185 or the main gate off of VD drive. Had to go through a check point just as if I was trying to get on to an AFB.
hmm.. i left benning right before 9/11, i guess it wouldnt be an open post anymore. i can remember rolling in drunk as a skunk early monday mornings and not even being sure if i was on post yet. :)
Littlelebowski
03-30-09, 05:59
Fort Belvoir allows firearms on base as long as the ammo and weapon are separate and the action is locked open. Works for me.
But let me be a bit more specific.
Concealed carry is a no-no. Period. I know of nothing that provides for concealed carry on a military installation. There may be an undercover LEO or two on an installation, but that's really it. Most other on-duty LEOs open carry. I've never seen an on-duty LEO forced to surrender his or her firearm at the gates either, regardless of what the regs say.
I suggest leaving the firearm in the hotel. Most hotels now have the lockable safes in the room. Probably a good choice.
But like others have posted, firearms are not strictly or specifically forbidden on an installation. While each installation is different, firearms are allowed to be kept in government quarters as long as each weapon is registered with the Provost Marshall. Troops who live in barracks must keep their POWs in the unit arms room.
Transporting weapons on an installation is usually allowed provided the POW is unloaded, cased and stored separately from ammunition. Additionally, you cannot just transport a POW for the sake of transporting a weapon, meaning no POV storage. You must be traveling to or from an event permitting the use of a firearm, i.e. hunting, range use, etc.
Hope this helps.
P.S. Fort Benning is not open-post anymore. Every installation is this way now.
"Installation" can be a bit of a nebulous term. There are open and closed installations, and areas where local law is assimilated. Having a particular installation/facility to discuss is most useful.
Practices in what's allowed and under what circumstances vary by branch of service, threat condition, installation commander, and mil LE (SP/MP/etc) commander.
Expect wide variation and minimal competency in recitation and interpretation of applicable rules and regulations, especially the farther down the chain of command of you go. Heck, the farther up the chain of command you go as well. Think: Bell curve.
The most common answer will be: "No." It won't always be correct, but the person offering it will always have more say-so than you.
For the bold: While visitors are always subject to search, most would find the liklihood of detection to be no greater on the installation than off. Some have calculated that risk, and CCW on installations every day.
K.L. Davis
03-30-09, 10:02
Talk to the base Provost Marshal's office. The installation is bound to have a website with a # for PMO, who can lock you on to the specifics, or if they have a contracted security force, give them a call.
That is your best bet...
Littlelebowski
03-30-09, 10:18
Talk to the base Provost Marshal's office. The installation is bound to have a website with a # for PMO, who can lock you on to the specifics, or if they have a contracted security force, give them a call.
That's what I did. People, please bear in mind that rules will vary from base to base.
If you decide to not carry it with you and instead have to leave it in the hotel. Remove bathroom ceiling tile and place it up there. 1 suggestion.
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